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 Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in that way?

It’s probably not impossible, but it’s also possible people are reading too much into/expecting too much out of ‘big news for the Underhive’ here. I expect it’ll be just House of Iron.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in with their new swag that way?

Maybe one part of it is additional weapon frames in plastic for everybody?
So much room for activities!

Wasn't that one of Kill Team's death rattles? New starter box with existing teams.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in that way?

It’s probably not impossible, but it’s also possible people are reading too much into/expecting too much out of ‘big news for the Underhive’ here. I expect it’ll be just House of Iron.

Fair enough. I just don't consider something already announced(albeit unrevealed) to be "big news".


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Baxx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in with their new swag that way?

Maybe one part of it is additional weapon frames in plastic for everybody?
So much room for activities!

Wasn't that one of Kill Team's death rattles? New starter box with existing teams.

It's a bit early to be calling anything "death rattles" for Kill Team. There hasn't been much movement, but that original starter was not staying.

Wow, those upper class ladies look ace!

 His Master's Voice wrote:
The "big things coming to the Underhive" is probably Necromunda PC game releasing on the 8th of September.

OR is it time to start pushing out the Giant Monster models and additional Outlanders?

Three Eyes, Iron Automata, Xenos Abominations, Abomination of Badzone 12, Mutie Gangs, Redemptionists....

We haven't heard about Spyre Hunters, either...

We have an issue though in that the minis from Forgeworld aren't accessible, either, unless you push hard and dig deep.

I see a real issue as well when you are trying to push this card schtick on the game when it is not needed, nor wanted by the player base.

Maybe using them for specific guys, or as added content, but to play the game, they are not needed.

Baxx wrote:
Yeah, you say it exactly right. My first gang was converted from Imperial Guard catachans some 15+ years ago xD It saddens me that a game can't continue to produce and sell plastic without having to push out new rules also.

I'm interested in all the existing minis and any new minis for existing rules. For example separate sculpts for champions, leaders and juves (instead of brand new champion/juve types). I would like to have minis for some of the existing hangers-on, brutes, pets etc, instead of having more rules for new ones. Unfortunately, the great work from many inspired veterans of this game has either halted or dispersed. Main problem is the huge load of existing content and (relatively) rapid release of new content.

The other thing is that you lose an enormous chunk of the playerbase from all communities when a game hits "officially dead" status. That includes everything from local play communities/clubs to online discussion venues. I would speculate that it's significantly over a 50% loss, but there's no way to know.

My feeling re: a lot of your comments is that you secretly want the game to die, so you can start working on and maintaining an Ultimate Undead Fixed Up Edition, and that you're made uncomfortable by a messy living, breathing, mutating gaming system.

Funny you say that. Quite accurate observation. I can accept losing fair-weather players if it can improve the game. It is weird that it has to be this compromise. Btw I would have jumped all on board the new minis even if it was just published with the old rules, or even no rules at all. I do like the core of the new edition, it is fresh and more interesting. More variety even. It's discomforting to know how little effort it would take to make it so much better.

Good to know that you consider new players or people getting interested based on exposure to the newer stuff to be 'fair-weather players'.

 Altruizine wrote:
My feeling re: a lot of your comments is that you secretly want the game to die, so you can start working on and maintaining an Ultimate Undead Fixed Up Edition, and that you're made uncomfortable by a messy living, breathing, mutating gaming system.

You like to read a lot of what isn't there it seems.

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Necromunda is basically the only GW game where GW actively encourages you to convert and build your own models: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/15/build-your-own-bounty-huntergw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-4/

Used to be that people thought that was cool and a good thing. I mean, I certainly don't object to them releasing more models, but I don't understand all the complaints about them having rules for more Bounty Hunters etc. than they have models for. Do you really want them to treat Necromunda like most other GW games, where no model = no rules? I thought people hated that?

There's no reason the two concepts have to be mutually exclusive. The reason that people dislike GW's 'no model/no rules' policy is that they use it as a reason to limit the rules to the (at times seemingly random) options they chose to include with a given kit, rather than making sure that their kits come with all of the appropriate options.

The thing about having rules options in there that don't have corresponding models is that those options then become only accessible to those people who are willing to convert them. That's not a good place for a game to be. Conversely, having models that adequately represent the rules while also encouraging conversions means that the modelers can still do their thing, while the people who just want to buy the right models to play the game are also included.

'No model/no rules' isn't a bad policy. It's a good policy, in fact. It just needs to not be used as an excuse to not release stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
My feeling re: a lot of your comments is that you secretly want the game to die, so you can start working on and maintaining an Ultimate Undead Fixed Up Edition, and that you're made uncomfortable by a messy living, breathing, mutating gaming system.

You like to read a lot of what isn't there it seems.

You don’t like to read what is there, it seems.

Baxx wrote:
Funny you say that. Quite accurate observation.

I find it revealing that some people call a game "officially dead" the moment it doesn't get constant updates.

We used to call those "evergreen" back in the day. Games that you stock and everyone can play with the same box/book/whatever, that you keep reprinting and stocking.

Of course, you can keep releasing stuff for an evergreen product, but the core of it stays constant, and provides much needed consistency for all players. You can also keep releasing new starters and everything, if you so choose or it's more interesting than a simple reprint (due to contents).

Example of Evergreen games? Well, the main pertinent example would be Battletech, I think; You can take out the box you got in the 80s and go play with some kid that just bough his/hers last week at a FLGS, with maybe one or two rules that might work slightly different. Tell me how that is a problem, please.

And the thing is, you still can release supplemental stuff for those evergreen games! Just take a look, again, at the veritable boatload of supplements Battletech has. Some with very significant tech advances that change the feeling of the game or the way you can play it. But you can still play with everything at the same time, and with everyone that has the game.

Of course, that's not, or ever has been, GW's sales program. And therein lies the problem, and the core of why Necromunda is in the state it is right now.

Baxx wrote:
Funny you say that. Quite accurate observation. I can accept losing fair-weather players if it can improve the game.

As much as I've agreed with your critics of Newcromunda, that's kind of a real toxic attitude there.

No new models from FW. Maybe tomorrow will be other preorder with surprise?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
You don’t like to read what is there, it seems.

I saw what Baxx said. Doesn't make the original statement about the folks in this thread true.

 HudsonD wrote:
As much as I've agreed with your critics of Newcromunda, that's kind of a real toxic attitude there.

If that's so, I apologise.

Article is up on WarCom :
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/21/house-of-blades-new-rules-for-the-escher/



Sweet baby Emperor on stilettos, that new skill is nasty !

So I can turn my Escher into kung fu wuxia heroines flying through close combat? Sign me up.

And is that a D66 strategy table? Was that in House of Chains?

 Graphite wrote:
And is that a D66 strategy table? Was that in House of Chains?

Yes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
You don’t like to read what is there, it seems.

I saw what Baxx said. Doesn't make the original statement about the folks in this thread true.

So you think the post that quoted Baxx and said "re: your comments" was actually about everyone else in the thread?

Still failing that comprehension check, Has Bad Mental Clarity.

Baxx usually takes an "anti" stance on many of the developments in the Necromunda ecosystem, but he has a massive and thorough store of knowledge, has put in enormous effort to improve the game over the years, and clearly just wants it to get to a state that he finds enjoyable. I love his presence in the thread.

I don't recall if this was in the article or not, but from the Facebooks.

The previewed tactic is particularly flawed. Only applies to a single fighter type (new champ), if you don't have it, tough luck! Played when she takes an enemy Out of Action. Her activation immediately ends, but remain Standing and Active, and can be activated again this round.

I don't know where to begin... I guess each house gang will receive 18 tactics in their book, but if it's going to be this quality, I'd rather have them skip it all together.

 Altruizine wrote:

Baxx usually takes an "anti" stance on many of the developments in the Necromunda ecosystem, but he has a massive and thorough store of knowledge, has put in enormous effort to improve the game over the years, and clearly just wants it to get to a state that he finds enjoyable. I love his presence in the thread.

Cheers. I hope the general quality of the new Escher book will be similar (or best case better) than the Goliath book. It is guaranteed to have some embarrassing mistakes though. There should be an abundance of reviews covering all the new fancy shiny stuff, I would like to complement that by having a more detailed look, particularly filtered on quality.


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 Graphite wrote:
And is that a D66 strategy table? Was that in House of Chains?

It will be a D18 for tactics and D13 for Escher plots (or a suit in a deck of cards).

 Altruizine wrote:
Has Bad Mental Clarity.

You're adorable.

Hey guys, let's not go there, kindly stay polite and on topic, or so help me I'll have you experience Bij.

 BrookM wrote:
Hey guys, let's not go there, kindly stay polite and on topic, or so help me I'll have you experience Bij.

Yes Captain Kavok!

Isnt that Chancellor Gowron?

Racerguy180 wrote:
Isnt that Chancellor Gowron?

Yes, but that’s not the only Klingon character he played

o I looked it up never played the game so...

Well the new Escher cards sold out in less than an hour on the Oz store.