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I'd like to know how many writers their team has, cause I know for sure Hewitt laid the groundwork for Necromunda and Adeptus Titanicus. They probably have one or two dudes working on all the games under the specialist games umbrella.

But they aren't going to change if we just whine about it on here. Gotta make a stink about it on social media, and embarass them. They aren't going to hire a proofreader or something unless they are publicly shamed en masse about it. People are content to just gripe about it, and then buy the next book. But they are shifty cause they know that we know if this stuff doesn't sell they'll have no problem dumping these games like they did the last time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

You don't have to be an "obsessed OCD nerd" to see these things

but you need to know the game and/or have played it at least once to spot such mistakes

chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it and therefore don't know if those things are typos/mistakes or intendet changes

or even if the changes make sense because they don't know anymore which game use which version of the rules as there are several around and some people might already started with a brainstorming for 10th Edition 40k.

the mistakes we see in most of the GW games are exactly that, written by people who have never played the final version (which was released) of the game on their own

 kodos wrote:
chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it...

I find that very hard to believe. Specialist isn't a big team, and the idea that the people in that team aren't even familiar with the products they are proof-reading strikes me as almost impossible.

Even if you're not familiar with what you're proof reading, cross referencing stats within the same book is part of what a competent proof reader does.

 Jadenim wrote:
I think it’s actually the opposite problem, a lot of their employees are just doing a job. They’re not game obsessed, OCD, nerds who’ve committed the entire game to memory like hardcore fans, therefore they don’t spot this stuff.

Well, that's my situation at my day job too, and I manage to actually do stuff right from time to time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kodos wrote:
chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it...

I find that very hard to believe. Specialist isn't a big team, and the idea that the people in that team aren't even familiar with the products they are proof-reading strikes me as almost impossible.

Plus, it's not really that much stuff. Even if you're completely unfamiliar with it, you'll be up to speed in a week, tops, and then misreferencing is just plain unprofessional.

Most likely they're not budgeting time, people and money for proof reading. In any project you need to have a realistic deadline where you say pencils down and from there on only revise and correct what you have.

Over the years my feeling has been GW writers have more enthusiasm than discipline and are throwing in 'cool new stuff' until the very end.

I've long felt that the core issue is that they've very casual writers in the core team that tends to result in a process that isn't a technical as could be.
That and we know that GW compartmentalises things to "stop leaks" which I think also results in breakdowns here and there. Things like when balancing changes a base size but no one tells manufacture.

Heck at its worst we had something like AoS come out when almost no one not directly on that team had any idea it was coming - least from what we can tell.


Even though AOS is a great example that improved balanced rules DO sell games; I think we won't see the wholesale shift to more technical writing and production of a game until GW loses some key staff in design positions and replaces them with a different style of rules writer. Of course the risk is that it could go the other way - we end up wit ha perfectly brilliant technical set of rules for a game that isn't as "fun"

You're not going to convince me anyone at GW plays Necromunda when there are whole concepts in it that just don't work mechanically.

When the old 13th Company rules came out way back when in late 3rd or early 4th edition, someone published a skit on GW forums that went something like this:

Gav and Jervis are lounging about in the office drinking beer
As a random intern passes by, Gav sticks a £20 bill in their pocket and says "Here, kid, go make a werewolf codex".

This is about the level of effort that goes into Necromunda, and, in fact, most GW rules product.

The quality control of Necromunda rules is utterly abysmal even by GW standards and that they're super slow to FAQ the game makes it even worse.

The FAQs are something special. Like adding more confusion in some cases. Or being plain rude in others, for example on the topic of paying for hired guns' weapons & equpment. Or surprising changes that no one asked for or expected. For example the limitation to pets is per fighter, not gang. I see people to this day being surprised about that ruling. FAQs sometimes also share the same bad quality, so can include sloppy copy-paste mistakes.

FAQs are also few and far between. We may never see any FAQs for the House of Books, and they will certainly never be exhaustive.

Baxx wrote:
Or being plain rude in others, for example on the topic of paying for hired guns' weapons & equpment.

They didn't even answer the question...

 kodos wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

You don't have to be an "obsessed OCD nerd" to see these things

but you need to know the game and/or have played it at least once to spot such mistakes

chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it and therefore don't know if those things are typos/mistakes or intendet changes

or even if the changes make sense because they don't know anymore which game use which version of the rules as there are several around and some people might already started with a brainstorming for 10th Edition 40k.

the mistakes we see in most of the GW games are exactly that, written by people who have never played the final version (which was released) of the game on their own

Yep, that’s what I was getting at and I wasn’t trying to justify or excuse it; HBMC is correct, it isn’t good enough. It’s just we gamers are coming at this from a very different mindset and experience than the writers. Oh and for the record I very much considered myself to be an OCD nerd, apologies if that game across as demeaning or dismissive.

An FAQ for HoB is up on the war comm site.

5 issues fixed:

- Phyrr cat 120 credits (not 130)
- Correct profile for Boltgun (Am 6+)
- Correct Damage 1 for Wyld Bow (not '-')
- Correct profile for Power knife (not power axe profile)
- Added Melee to Venom Claw.

No surprise. The only debatable issue was Phyrr cat's cost.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wonder if the regular Ogryn heads will work with this kit...

This works well, btw. The regular Ogryn heads mount on the new Ogryn necks without any modification, and look fine. They seem ever-so-slightly larger than the new heads, but not enough for anyone to tell the difference.

Beyond that, the Ogryn kit is the most disappointing of the "no options" Necromunda kits so far. At least the other kits gave you the arms/hands necessary to do your own thing and convert loadouts not included in the box... the Ogryn kit doesn't even offer that.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You're not going to convince me anyone at GW plays Necromunda when there are whole concepts in it that just don't work mechanically.

When the old 13th Company rules came out way back when in late 3rd or early 4th edition, someone published a skit on GW forums that went something like this:

Gav and Jervis are lounging about in the office drinking beer
As a random intern passes by, Gav sticks a £20 bill in their pocket and says "Here, kid, go make a werewolf codex".

This is about the level of effort that goes into Necromunda, and, in fact, most GW rules product.

This strikes me as accurate. The Sentry rules -- as usual -- are one of the obvious nodes to hypothesize around. Nobody could play actual games while properly using those rules and not conclude "these are weird and don't work." Huge parts of the game feel like they've never been playtested even once.

So... can Escher now buy the power axe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Altruizine wrote:
I wonder if the regular Ogryn heads will work with this kit...

This works well, btw. The regular Ogryn heads mount on the new Ogryn necks without any modification, and look fine. They seem ever-so-slightly larger than the new heads, but not enough for anyone to tell the difference.

Having a quick review of the remaining discovered problems. If one excludes the obvious typos, sloppy copy-paste errors and minor mistakes, there are not that many truly debatable game breaking errors remaining.

Here are some of those I find annoying:
- Stun grenades costing 25 for Escher, but 15 (Rare 8) from Trading Post.
- Generic Bounty Hunter access to Trading Post, but doesn't specify rarity level. Is it 10 like it used to be before the new house-specific generic bounty hunters?
- Promotion of Specialist Gangers, what types of champion can they become (or not become)?

Some mistakes solves themselves, like what happens if a gang is punished for petitioning a House Agent, but can't pay. This is a problem that will never occur, because no gang with high enough Reputation has anything to gain by taking the risk to roll on the petition table. The 16+ result can simply be deleted.

One could argue that problems with bounty hunters (and other hired guns) also are irrelevant as no-one hires them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
I think it’s actually the opposite problem, a lot of their employees are just doing a job. They’re not game obsessed, OCD, nerds who’ve committed the entire game to memory like hardcore fans, therefore they don’t spot this stuff.

Not good enough.

This isn't people not having the same interpretation as other players who spend more time thinking about it. These are actual errors in the text.

Take the very first example from this book: The power blade has the power axe's profile, and Escher cannot purchase the power axe anymore as it's not on their list. This was noticed immediately upon people getting the book. Such a mistake shouldn't be made.

Now if it was just that mistake, then fine, no one is perfect. Things will slip through; it's inevitable. But look at Baxx's list. It's HUGE.

You don't have to be an "obsessed OCD nerd" to see these things, but hey, way to rag on everyone who finds mistakes. Real classy!

Having been a proofreader for an editorial department for a bit, it's an editor's job to be sure everything makes sense on a structural level; it's a proofreader's job to be sure nothing else gets through, including technical errors the editor missed. It should be two people's jobs, and both roles involve exactly being obsessive and detail-oriented, and if they're doing the job well then they wouldn't need to play the game to notice consistency errors (matching to precedent, regarding rules wording etc.). This might let mechanical errors/interactions get through, but that's why you should also have writers and playtesters who also know their game and are catching things.

This isn't about nerds being nerds. This is about poor quality checks, workflow, and/or staffing.

The Errata tried to fix the power knife profile by converting the power axe profile, but forgot about backstab...

 Crimson wrote:
The quality control of Necromunda rules is utterly abysmal even by GW standards and that they're super slow to FAQ the game makes it even worse.

Well that comment aged like milk

Yeah I did not expect it, unusual fast. Sad to see only 1 fix to House of Chains, it has an equally long list of mistakes and notes as House of Blades. Seems like even House codexes are "fire and forget".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kodos wrote:
chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it...

I find that very hard to believe. Specialist isn't a big team, and the idea that the people in that team aren't even familiar with the products they are proof-reading strikes me as almost impossible.

HBMC, didn't you make this same exact mistake once? Remember bike guardsmen?

MaxT wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
The quality control of Necromunda rules is utterly abysmal even by GW standards and that they're super slow to FAQ the game makes it even worse.

Well that comment aged like milk

If making myself to look like a fool is the price for jinxing the FAQs to happen I'm willing to pay it.

Yeah. That's called using Murphy's Law to your advantage.

GW will never redo plastic Catachans!

GW will never release a plastic Thunderbolt!

GW will never make a real Inquisition codex!

(crickets chirp, tumbleweed blows by)

Nice try Kid, definitely worth a shot!

 Jadenim wrote:
Nice try Kid, definitely worth a shot!

I had to do a whole army of 2nd edition metal Arbites to get plastic Enforcers made, so it may not be enough.

IIRC HBMC had to do a whole Death Watch army before GW released them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
GW will never redo plastic Catachans!

GW will never release a plastic Thunderbolt!

GW will never make a real Inquisition codex!

(crickets chirp, tumbleweed blows by)

1 out of 3 ain't bad !

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
...

GW will never make a real Inquisition codex!

...

Fast forward a year and Inquistor is re-released in 28mm

 zedmeister wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
...

GW will never make a real Inquisition codex!

...

Fast forward a year and Inquistor is re-released in 28mm

Seems a good move.....