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We might see 1 or 2 games a year of 30k played @ my flgs. I really want to get into HH but as much as I like spending money on little army dudes, here in the US its ridiculous.

Counterfeit models are a 100% no go.

I can have a friend of a friend buy stuff in UK and mail it cheaper than I can order and ship stuff from the FW online store.

Racerguy180 wrote:
We might see 1 or 2 games a year of 30k played @ my flgs. I really want to get into HH but as much as I like spending money on little army dudes, here in the US its ridiculous.

Counterfeit models are a 100% no go.

I can have a friend of a friend buy stuff in UK and mail it cheaper than I can order and ship stuff from the FW online store.

So skip the 30k-specific sculpts and use plastic models. The Mars-pattern Rhino chassis, the Castaferrum Dreadnaught chassis, the plain ordinary IIB Land Raider...there are a lot of plastic vehicles that were around during the Heresy. You can buy plastic Mk.III/Mk.IV Tactical Marines, both Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators, you can use ordinary Indomitus Terminators if you don't like those, suitable proxies for a lot of Legion-specific units can be produced with weapon swaps and a bit of greenstuff...

Sure you can't buy character series sculpts but you can do an amazingly large percentage of the Legion range without touching Forge World.

(As to doing other armies with no Forge World Custodians are iffy (you can get by with the GW kits for small forces but a pure Talons army does start to need the vehicles), you need to find suitable proxies for Auxilia, you can do a Knights army without touching the Cerastus chassis, the Mechanicum is probably not possible (there's so little overlap in the range that it'd be almost entirely scratch-built), and Militia and Daemons have almost no official models so you're going to need to do a lot of proxying/conversion whatever you do. You can get a lot of mileage out of Sigmar models if you want to stick to GW for those.)

In my store the 30K community specifically requires you to use deimos pattern rhinos (and other Heresy FW sculpts) in order to gate-keep regular 40K players. Otherwise they won't play against you or allow you to join in. For a lot of people this make the transition between games far more difficult and expensive to bridge. The worst part is that most of these people then go out and buy recast.

Their restrictions are not a problem for me to meet (I have a small 13th Legion force I've used to play with them before), but the community has been off putting enough that I've kept my most recent 30K endeavors to Titanicus.

 UnstableDominus wrote:
In my store the 30K community specifically requires you to use deimos pattern rhinos (and other Heresy FW sculpts) in order to gate-keep regular 40K players. Otherwise they won't play against you or allow you to join in. For a lot of people this make the transition between games far more difficult and expensive to bridge. The worst part is that most of these people then go out and buy recast.

Their restrictions are not a problem for me to meet (I have a small 13th Legion force I've used to play with them before), but the community has been off putting enough that I've kept my most recent 30K endeavors to Titanicus.

You store need more liberal minded individual who will run the community. I understand some barriers should be set but this is just too much. Like they dont accept conversions? Are plasma and meltagun 30k versions only on models?

Anyway even if you agree to have everything historically related Mars was a forgeworld then and it produced its own set of patters - Mars pattern.

 UnstableDominus wrote:
In my store the 30K community specifically requires you to use deimos pattern rhinos (and other Heresy FW sculpts) in order to gate-keep regular 40K players. Otherwise they won't play against you or allow you to join in. For a lot of people this make the transition between games far more difficult and expensive to bridge. The worst part is that most of these people then go out and buy recast.

Their restrictions are not a problem for me to meet (I have a small 13th Legion force I've used to play with them before), but the community has been off putting enough that I've kept my most recent 30K endeavors to Titanicus.

That is utterly insane.

I haven't heard that sort stuff explicitly said... but the 30k guys I've seen really favored well painted resin, and weren't interested in playing against anything else.

Though the 30k group has mixed feelings about my paint scheme; they've been fine with people using regular Rhinos and Land Raiders. Heck, I'll be using the old Rogue Trader Rhinos, and they're cool with that.

One thing I thought of, most stores in the US cannot sell HH stuff (barring the now OOP boxed games and the plastic sets). So they may bar or at least discourage it.

 UnstableDominus wrote:
In my store the 30K community specifically requires you to use deimos pattern rhinos (and other Heresy FW sculpts) in order to gate-keep regular 40K players. Otherwise they won't play against you or allow you to join in. For a lot of people this make the transition between games far more difficult and expensive to bridge. The worst part is that most of these people then go out and buy recast.

Their restrictions are not a problem for me to meet (I have a small 13th Legion force I've used to play with them before), but the community has been off putting enough that I've kept my most recent 30K endeavors to Titanicus.

Elitest pricks.

This right here is how you kill a community.

I saw Orks and eldar mentioned earlier. During 7th edition we played 30K and it made my Orks an outstanding army far better than how games had been going in 40K. The games were more balanced in a way. I found fighting 30K marines was just a blast.
Orks seemd to me to play like the bug green nasty they should be and every game was very close though I don't think I won more than a small handful of them. My boys managed to slay Corax one time and I had a deff dread run down some marines that tried to flee from close combat a few times. Over all the Ork put on a good showing every time. Our games were a 5000 point minimum and even as large as 10,000 points a side a few times. I can understand some players wanting to be "purists" but we didn't do that because I was just starting my legion at the time and this was a way for my friends to put loads of their models on the table for a game. We are kinda a small group and play so infrequently we made these games all day events. It's really all about who you play with. we like to play Maelstrom of war and team games. Sadly I have had no time for it for nearly 2 years now.

Anyone who insists people only Deimos pattern or Proteus and MK I land raiders can go to hell. There’s even pictures of Mars pattern Rhinos in some of the Black Books. “Modern” Land Raiders existed too. That’s not up for interpretation.

That’s an insane way to kill a community. Heresy was built on conversion back before FW put out any kits. If people want to convert their armies that’s awesome! Insisting on only FW kits is ridiculous.

 Togusa wrote:

 UnstableDominus wrote:
In my store the 30K community specifically requires you to use deimos pattern rhinos (and other Heresy FW sculpts) in order to gate-keep regular 40K players. Otherwise they won't play against you or allow you to join in. For a lot of people this make the transition between games far more difficult and expensive to bridge. The worst part is that most of these people then go out and buy recast.

Their restrictions are not a problem for me to meet (I have a small 13th Legion force I've used to play with them before), but the community has been off putting enough that I've kept my most recent 30K endeavors to Titanicus.

Elitest pricks.

This right here is how you kill a community.

Or how you maintain one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thanatos73 wrote:
Anyone who insists people only Deimos pattern or Proteus and MK I land raiders can go to hell. There’s even pictures of Mars pattern Rhinos in some of the Black Books. “Modern” Land Raiders existed too. That’s not up for interpretation.

That’s an insane way to kill a community. Heresy was built on conversion back before FW put out any kits. If people want to convert their armies that’s awesome! Insisting on only FW kits is ridiculous.

While I agree it gets absurd, I do draw the line at playing only fully painted, which already makes me a snob in plenty of people's eyes. Just food for thought now.


Undoubtedly there are those who are overly pedantic about vehicle or weapon or armour marks, it's a fact. With that said, anyone who doesn't value having a fully painted army is going to be just as put off by that expectation on the part of a potential opponent or gaming group. I think it makes a lot of sense that 30k players with fully painted armies look to play against other fully painted armies, the game starts at 1750pts and seems to average at 2500pts or more. Outside of zone mortalis it's a game that requires a pretty big buy in. Money and time. Perseonally all I care about is the army is painted and the WYSIWYG makes sense, there are however differences when it comes to say terminator armour that still require specificity on the part of the player. Rhinos are rhinos, land raiders are land raiders. Just paint'm.

I think that you should adjust your expectations depending on the situation. If you have someone who wants to start out and is very enthusiastic, it’s important to allow them leeway in their collection and get them hooked on the system and story first before having them adhere to a series of relatively arbitrary standards.

Mk7 existed at the Seige/closing stages of the Heresy and was available to the Imperial Fists and others in the defence of Terra.

As others have stated, the Mars patterns of vehicles were commonplace.

 agurus1 wrote:
I think that you should adjust your expectations depending on the situation. If you have someone who wants to start out and is very enthusiastic, it’s important to allow them leeway in their collection and get them hooked on the system and story first before having them adhere to a series of relatively arbitrary standards.

I disagree, people can meet the standards and play me or not, it actually works out really well, I get to play against and photograph rally nice looking armies on a truly immersive battlescape. I'm fortunate in that, I understand plenty of people struggle to just get a game in and obviously some standards may have to change in that instance. But really, 30k isn't the slow start game outside of maybe zone mortalis, but that also cuts out the majority of vehicles and is if anything more cost prohibitive because of the board one needs to play. 40k is much more scale-able than 30k, especially with thing like kill team allowing new players to start out with a handful of models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
As others have stated, the Mars patterns of vehicles were commonplace.

Yeah people have some weird obsession when it comes to rhinos thinking deimos is/was the only pattern.

 Thanatos73 wrote:
Anyone who insists people only Deimos pattern or Proteus and MK I land raiders can go to hell. There’s even pictures of Mars pattern Rhinos in some of the Black Books. “Modern” Land Raiders existed too. That’s not up for interpretation.

That’s an insane way to kill a community. Heresy was built on conversion back before FW put out any kits. If people want to convert their armies that’s awesome! Insisting on only FW kits is ridiculous.

While I agree it gets absurd, I do draw the line at playing only fully painted, which already makes me a snob in plenty of people's eyes. Just food for thought now.


Undoubtedly there are those who are overly pedantic about vehicle or weapon or armour marks, it's a fact. With that said, anyone who doesn't value having a fully painted army is going to be just as put off by that expectation on the part of a potential opponent or gaming group. I think it makes a lot of sense that 30k players with fully painted armies look to play against other fully painted armies, the game starts at 1750pts and seems to average at 2500pts or more. Outside of zone mortalis it's a game that requires a pretty big buy in. Money and time. Perseonally all I care about is the army is painted and the WYSIWYG makes sense, there are however differences when it comes to say terminator armour that still require specificity on the part of the player. Rhinos are rhinos, land raiders are land raiders. Just paint'm.

I’m glad you can find games against fully painted armies. I’ve been playing since 3rd Edition and I can count on one hand the amount of times outside big events they both me and my opponent have fielded fully painted armies. There are several people in the local 30k group that have full or nearly fully painted armies and none have ever said one word about playing bare plastic or resin.

The only time I haven't had a game against painted armies is when I played in stores (which was very rarely), or a half-arsed tourney army.

In our garage group, everyone brings painted models to just about every game (40k and 30k), unless you're trying out a new unit, and then, its usually primed or on its way to fully painted. Not playing with a unit until its fully painted becomes incentive to get it done so it can see action (and point of pride).

And its not out of any elitism, we're all hobbyists who prefer to play games on nicely terrained tables with fully painted models. When I was learning the game, the first thing the group focused on was sportsmanship, the second was painting, and all the way at the end was winning/losing. And we all did the 90's/2000's GT and other tourneys as well.

I've never encountered a particularly pedantic 30k player, though I've had more than my fair share on the actual Historicals side of things.

The split of the 8th/7th ruleset, the death of Alan Bligh, and the upcost beyond exchange rate (+including VAT) in FW prices are what keeps it from being more popular in the US. Sadly, I don't think 30k will make an official resurgence with FW saddled with a heavy load of Specialist Games.

US, you say...
We, two, are pretty much the only ones who play Heresy here in Baltics (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia). If we want to someday find some more games, we would have to either go to Poland or just fly over to UK, but the latter may soon be too troublesome *coughbrexitcough*

 CragHack wrote:
US, you say...
We, two, are pretty much the only ones who play Heresy here in Baltics (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia). If we want to someday find some more games, we would have to either go to Poland or just fly over to UK, but the latter may soon be too troublesome *coughbrexitcough*

Every month there is a tournament in Warsaw, Poland. It has always from 10 to 20 attendees. You could visit us.

Before the COVID issues, New England 30k was hosting events every other month to every month and reg game days in between at a few FLGS in the New England Area.

How to grow you 30k community
1. Introduce it as a slow grow and push that it is a narrative game first.
2. Do not gate keep...too hard. Mars pattern stuff is fine, just paint it up and require 3 colors and based. and no mk7 armor or above really.
3. Buy plastics from your FLGS, but Please do not advocate recasting on Dakka, thanks!

 Togusa wrote:

 UnstableDominus wrote:
In my store the 30K community specifically requires you to use deimos pattern rhinos (and other Heresy FW sculpts) in order to gate-keep regular 40K players. Otherwise they won't play against you or allow you to join in. For a lot of people this make the transition between games far more difficult and expensive to bridge. The worst part is that most of these people then go out and buy recast.

Their restrictions are not a problem for me to meet (I have a small 13th Legion force I've used to play with them before), but the community has been off putting enough that I've kept my most recent 30K endeavors to Titanicus.

Elitest pricks.

This right here is how you kill a community.

Having high standards is not elitism, their group their rules, that being said we have a new guy that uses primaris marines so each to their own.