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I thought Tacticals and CSM were the same scale.

They were. Newer Chaos models are creeping up in size so they don't look as dwarfed by Primaris Models.

Justyn wrote:

I thought Tacticals and CSM were the same scale.

They were. Newer Chaos models are creeping up in size so they don't look as dwarfed by Primaris Models.

Ah, I thought they were brought in line with the updated OldMarines which don't look too short next to the Primaris.

Yeah, that could cause some trip ups.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/9tpgoo/new_chaos_space_marine_size_comparison_estimate/

Shows the difference well.

Its why I don't think there will ever be 'Chaos Primaris'. Not that I think Primaris guys can't fall to chaos. They may even make a Chaos Primaris Special character. But i suspect you will not see Primaris Aggressors etc. Personally i'd prefer to have just made all the old units in the new scale. But i suspect they thought not enough people would buy into that fast enough. I'd like to see a Primaris unit equivalent to Assault Marines/Blood Claws. Maybe even a bike/jetbike unit. But then GW doesn't pick what I'd like as their next project.

Justyn wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/9tpgoo/new_chaos_space_marine_size_comparison_estimate/

Shows the difference well.

Yeah, that's a pretty big size difference. I hadn't looked that closely so I'll admit complete fault on this.

How does the size comparison of new CSM to Primaris relate to an upcoming PA, exactly?

Tangentially related. My apologies.

I hope the new Ragnar model doesn't look like recent FW Space Wolf sculpts.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
How does the size comparison of new CSM to Primaris relate to an upcoming PA, exactly?

Discussions develop over time. This one is related to the discussion of Wulfen and their models, so it is on topic.

Also you are not a Mod and being the OP doesn't mean you can tell people what to talk about. Maybe you unaware of this fact?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
How does the size comparison of new CSM to Primaris relate to an upcoming PA, exactly?

Discussions develop over time. This one is related to the discussion of Wulfen and their models, so it is on topic.

Also you are not a Mod and being the OP doesn't mean you can tell people what to talk about. Maybe you unaware of this fact?

It's off topic and I've reported it as such.

I was asked to make this topic because the last PA thread had become an overgrown mess of off topic gibberish. Let's not do the same to this one. If you want to discuss the scale of miniatures completely unrelated to any PA, there are other threads for that or you can make one.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
How does the size comparison of new CSM to Primaris relate to an upcoming PA, exactly?

Discussions develop over time. This one is related to the discussion of Wulfen and their models, so it is on topic.

Also you are not a Mod and being the OP doesn't mean you can tell people what to talk about. Maybe you unaware of this fact?

It's off topic and I've reported it as such.

I was asked to make this topic because the last PA thread had become an overgrown mess of off topic gibberish. Let's not do the same to this one. If you want to discuss the scale of miniatures completely unrelated to any PA, there are other threads for that or you can make one.

Creating a post whose only content is "this is off topic" also isn't on topic (neither is this one), just report it and resist clutter. As I will do next time.

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
How does the size comparison of new CSM to Primaris relate to an upcoming PA, exactly?

Discussions develop over time. This one is related to the discussion of Wulfen and their models, so it is on topic.

Also you are not a Mod and being the OP doesn't mean you can tell people what to talk about. Maybe you unaware of this fact?

It's off topic and I've reported it as such.

I was asked to make this topic because the last PA thread had become an overgrown mess of off topic gibberish. Let's not do the same to this one. If you want to discuss the scale of miniatures completely unrelated to any PA, there are other threads for that or you can make one.

Creating a post whose only content is "this is off topic" also isn't on topic (neither is this one), just report it and resist clutter. As I will do next time.

Completely agreed. 9 times out of 10 I don't post, I simply report the off topic stuff. The reason I've highlighted it this time is because it just keeps happening and it's becoming tiresome.

For the first time ever I actually feel sorry for the mods. It's like they're having to manage kids or something. I visit a number of forums and this one is unique for a number of reasons; one of them is how quickly threads go off topic and how often those off topic conversations devolve into straight up arguments. I'm not trying to piss anyone off or anything, I'm no saint in terms of staying on topic myself, I just don't want this thread locked/people banned/the topic to devolve into arguing when it doesn't need to.

There's loads of things still to discuss here. Let's focus on that?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Indeed but given that Orks are a green tide of ever-spawning mushroom beasts whose numbers grow exponentially I'm struggling to envision where the weak areas would be? Are they like; "Aha! On the Eastern Fringe there's only 143,000,000 Orks! We'll sneak in there!" *Other wolves howl and clash drinking horns quietly.

Sure, they'd kill a fair few Orks all sneaky-like. But since Orks are hardwired to actively find and engage in fighting I don't think it's take long before a green mass, thousands strong is WAAAAAAGGGGHHH!!!ing towards them?

Also they plan to sneak to Ghazzy? Like he doesn't have a ton of Nobs and Underling Warbosses knocking around? It seems a stupid plan at conception stage.

The old IA:6 has a great story about Raven Guard infiltrating an ork-controlled world to assassinate Mekboss Buzzgob. It goes totally south for them, but in general their plan could have worked in general.

In addition it's shoota porn as opposed to bolter porn

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Indeed but given that Orks are a green tide of ever-spawning mushroom beasts whose numbers grow exponentially I'm struggling to envision where the weak areas would be? Are they like; "Aha! On the Eastern Fringe there's only 143,000,000 Orks! We'll sneak in there!" *Other wolves howl and clash drinking horns quietly.

Sure, they'd kill a fair few Orks all sneaky-like. But since Orks are hardwired to actively find and engage in fighting I don't think it's take long before a green mass, thousands strong is WAAAAAAGGGGHHH!!!ing towards them?

Also they plan to sneak to Ghazzy? Like he doesn't have a ton of Nobs and Underling Warbosses knocking around? It seems a stupid plan at conception stage.

The old IA:6 has a great story about Raven Guard infiltrating an ork-controlled world to assassinate Mekboss Buzzgob. It goes totally south for them, but in general their plan could have worked in general.

In addition it's shoota porn as opposed to bolter porn

Yea I think I recall it. I think we can all assume fairly reliably that the "infiltrate to assassinate Ghaz" plan that Ragnar attempts doesn't work. Likely he gets krumped, rescued by this "Icefang" (what a name, seriously) team and turned into a Primaris duder. Then it's a bit more open, in my opinion. If they fight again Primfang Ragnar might be winning but Ghazzy gets to escape, they might be on equal terms and separate for some reason or they might not fight a second time and GW will leave old Raggy trying to hunt Ghazzy. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell they fight twice and Ragnar loses a second time. Which is a shame, because lore-wise Ghazzy should be a step above Ragnar. He is a faction leader equivalent to a Primarch. Ragnar is not.

There is also the chance that Thrakka thinks that fighting Ragnar is amusing and leave him alive for that reason. That's something he does quite often.

 Jidmah wrote:
There is also the chance that Thrakka thinks that fighting Ragnar is amusing and leave him alive for that reason. That's something he does quite often.

No! Bad Thraka! Stop playing with your food!

Yea I think I recall it. I think we can all assume fairly reliably that the "infiltrate to assassinate Ghaz" plan that Ragnar attempts doesn't work. Likely he gets krumped, rescued by this "Icefang" (what a name, seriously) team and turned into a Primaris duder. Then it's a bit more open, in my opinion. If they fight again Primfang Ragnar might be winning but Ghazzy gets to escape, they might be on equal terms and separate for some reason or they might not fight a second time and GW will leave old Raggy trying to hunt Ghazzy. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell they fight twice and Ragnar loses a second time. Which is a shame, because lore-wise Ghazzy should be a step above Ragnar. He is a faction leader equivalent to a Primarch. Ragnar is not.

I agree its fairly safe to bet that neither will die. Both going 1 and 1 out of two seems about right for GW level writing. I don't think Ghaz should be on par with a Primarch. Mostly that is my thinking Primarchs should have been kept in the past and too big for 40k, where as Ghaz should totally be in 40k. But since there are Primarchs in 40k, he should be able to go toe to toe with Guilliman, Magnus or Mortarion with an even chance of winning. Which of course means Ragnar shouldn't have a chance at all. Or perhaps Ragnar wins his fight with Ghaz only with the help of 3-5 of his Wolf Guard. This of course would cost poor Jarl FrozenManeTeeth Redborne his life.

Justyn wrote:

I thought Tacticals and CSM were the same scale.

They were. Newer Chaos models are creeping up in size so they don't look as dwarfed by Primaris Models.

Well fluffwise they should be head shorter than primaris

tneva82 wrote:

Justyn wrote:

I thought Tacticals and CSM were the same scale.

They were. Newer Chaos models are creeping up in size so they don't look as dwarfed by Primaris Models.

Well fluffwise they should be head shorter than primaris

Citation still needed. I have not seen any official fluff on the Primaris size and in any official art they are depicted as barely noticeably taller. The size difference between the Primaris and the new CSM seem to be similar to that depicted in the art.

Justyn wrote:
I agree its fairly safe to bet that neither will die. Both going 1 and 1 out of two seems about right for GW level writing.

And why would you want to introduce a fancy new model and then immediately kill that character?

Justyn wrote:
I don't think Ghaz should be on par with a Primarch. Mostly that is my thinking Primarchs should have been kept in the past and too big for 40k, where as Ghaz should totally be in 40k. But since there are Primarchs in 40k, he should be able to go toe to toe with Guilliman, Magnus or Mortarion with an even chance of winning. Which of course means Ragnar shouldn't have a chance at all. Or perhaps Ragnar wins his fight with Ghaz only with the help of 3-5 of his Wolf Guard. This of course would cost poor Jarl FrozenManeTeeth Redborne his life.

It won't be good if they give Ragnar such awesome rules that he can take out someone like Ghaz, who should be able to, as you say, give a good fight to the Primarch/Daemon Primarchs in the game.

 Crimson wrote:
Citation still needed.

Citation needed? Are you for real? They're enormous. They're clearly physically larger than regular standard Marines. You don't need official fluff to tell you that. You have eyes!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It's off topic and I've reported it as such.

You must be fun at parties.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Citation needed? Are you for real? They're enormous. They're clearly physically larger than regular standard Marines. You don't need official fluff to tell you that. You have eyes!

Yes, the models are bigger, they're scaled to be about seven feet tall compared to GW's normal humans. Which is the canonical height of a Space Marine. I am asking for a citation to the claim that in the fluff the primaris are supposed to be a head taller than the old marines.

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Citation needed? Are you for real? They're enormous. They're clearly physically larger than regular standard Marines. You don't need official fluff to tell you that. You have eyes!

Yes, the models are bigger, they're scaled to be about seven feet tall compared to GW's normal humans. Which is the canonical height of a Space Marine. I am asking for a citation to the claim that in the fluff the primaris are supposed to be a head taller than the old marines.

Depends a bit, we know for a fact that Alpha legionaires were particulary large, so large infact that they could stand in for their primarchs which were smaller then your average primarch.
Then we have Abbadabadab, that was rumored to be a clone of horus, and also quite the giant himself.

THen there's Chaos, unnatural size growths would rarely be something out of the possibility for the traitor marines, if stuck too long in the eye of terror and or other such nice and homely places.
Getting bloated is also the whole shtick of atleast one chaos god.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
on another note, the new ghazzy model sofar looks rather splendid, like the new abbadon did. However i hope that the pricetag is not in the same ridiculous realm .

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Citation needed? Are you for real? They're enormous. They're clearly physically larger than regular standard Marines. You don't need official fluff to tell you that. You have eyes!

Yes, the models are bigger, they're scaled to be about seven feet tall compared to GW's normal humans. Which is the canonical height of a Space Marine. I am asking for a citation to the claim that in the fluff the primaris are supposed to be a head taller than the old marines.

What about new PA chaos marines next to new chaos terminators, next to loyalist terminators?

I put some BA terminators next to new Mephiston and they looked tiny (no, rather, mephiston looked comically big)

I'm a little confused by the overall choice of factions. To me it would have made more sense to put the Space Wolves up against CSM in Faith & Fury (err, "Furry & Fury? ) or even better swapping again with DA to fight their old buddy Magnus, while having Orks up against Black Templars and Imperial Guard in "The Beast of Armageddon" to let the Yarrick and Helbrecht tag-team story and their hunt for Ghazghkull continue. You could have had Yarrick and Helbrecht fight Ghazghkull together but once again failing to stop him, logically progressing from the old Armageddon fluff to build on Ghazghkull's legend (much as I'm loath to having Helbrecht get stomped AGAIN, at least this'd build on existing fluff).

Instead we get Wolf McWolf with no previous connection to Ghazghkull fighting him. It'd have been a lot more coherent narrative-wise if Ghazkhull had had another showdown with his biggest rival Yarrick (with Helbrecht along to stop it from being a ridiculously one-sided fight, sorry Yarrick).

 Fayric wrote:

What about new PA chaos marines next to new chaos terminators, next to loyalist terminators?

I put some BA terminators next to new Mephiston and they looked tiny (no, rather, mephiston looked comically big)

Well, the BA termies are old models, and thus undersized like the rest of the loyalist minimarines. I don't own the new chaos termies so I can't compare. One would assume that they were upscaled along with their PA brethren, but if they weren't then someone fethed up. And terminators in general need a redo so that they can be big and imposing like they should be. Primaris terminators when?

Justyn wrote:
This of course would cost poor Jarl FrozenManeTeeth Redborne his life.

Oh no .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
with his biggest rival Yarrick (with Helbrecht along to stop it from being a ridiculously one-sided fight, sorry Yarrick).

You say this like the Astra Militarum isn't the faction with access to the strongest character in all of 40k, by far!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It's off topic and I've reported it as such.

You must be fun at parties.

It's interesting you say that. Imagine you're at a party right now. You're there with a few friends having a chat about ex partners or something. Everyone is enjoying the conversation. Then, without warning, a stranger keeps barging into the circle of friends talking and interrupts the conversation to talk about Scrabble, boiled eggs, or the price of fish. You are the person discussing Scrabble at the party right now. That, in my experience, is not fun at parties. Don't be that guy. This message is for anyone still discussing Marine scale when it has no place here, outside of the scale of Ragnar and his cohort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'm a little confused by the overall choice of factions. To me it would have made more sense to put the Space Wolves up against CSM in Faith & Fury (err, "Furry & Fury? ) or even better swapping again with DA to fight their old buddy Magnus, while having Orks up against Black Templars and Imperial Guard in "The Beast of Armageddon" to let the Yarrick and Helbrecht tag-team story and their hunt for Ghazghkull continue. You could have had Yarrick and Helbrecht fight Ghazghkull together but once again failing to stop him, logically progressing from the old Armageddon fluff to build on Ghazghkull's legend (much as I'm loath to having Helbrecht get stomped AGAIN, at least this'd build on existing fluff).

Instead we get Wolf McWolf with no previous connection to Ghazghkull fighting him. It'd have been a lot more coherent narrative-wise if Ghazkhull had had another showdown with his biggest rival Yarrick (with Helbrecht along to stop it from being a ridiculously one-sided fight, sorry Yarrick).

Agreed, but it's a little late now.

I guess GW want to give Ghazzy yet another 'rival' and/or they couldn't figure a way to square the circle of the remaining factions and who they would face.

Instead we get Wolf McWolf with no previous connection to Ghazghkull fighting him. It'd have been a lot more coherent narrative-wise if Ghazkhull had had another showdown with his biggest rival Yarrick (with Helbrecht along to stop it from being a ridiculously one-sided fight, sorry Yarrick).

You might want to check that. Ragnar and Yarrick models were released around the same time. Codex SW which featured Ragnar vs Ghaz was released in 1994 a year before Codex IG though.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'm a little confused by the overall choice of factions. To me it would have made more sense to put the Space Wolves up against CSM in Faith & Fury (err, "Furry & Fury? ) or even better swapping again with DA to fight their old buddy Magnus, while having Orks up against Black Templars and Imperial Guard in "The Beast of Armageddon" to let the Yarrick and Helbrecht tag-team story and their hunt for Ghazghkull continue. You could have had Yarrick and Helbrecht fight Ghazghkull together but once again failing to stop him, logically progressing from the old Armageddon fluff to build on Ghazghkull's legend (much as I'm loath to having Helbrecht get stomped AGAIN, at least this'd build on existing fluff).

Instead we get Wolf McWolf with no previous connection to Ghazghkull fighting him. It'd have been a lot more coherent narrative-wise if Ghazkhull had had another showdown with his biggest rival Yarrick (with Helbrecht along to stop it from being a ridiculously one-sided fight, sorry Yarrick).

You should read Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha as it puts Ghazghkull's "rivalries" in perspective. Yarrick isn't close to being a match for Ghaz, neither is Helbrecht or Belial and Ragnar won't fair any better. These "rivalries" exist only in the minds of Imperial commanders it seems. Ghaz is also interesting in that he's evolved more than most over his time. Starting off as a rando warboss rolled up by Andy Chambers, to his invasions of Armageddon (and how popular those events are with the fanbase) and now as the undisputed (or briefly disputed if you prefer) leader of the Orks and heir to the legacy of The Beast. Basically I think he's outgrown Yarrick but look forward to the 4th war all the same.

Yeah, some people seem to read into the whole Yarrick vs Ghaz meme too much. Ghaz has handily beaten Yarrick several times and keeps him around for a fun challenge more than a true rival. Ghaz was like 7 years old the first time he beat him, having ascended to primeork it wouldn't even be somewhat of a close fight and at this point Ghaz might be smarter than him as well.

I truly hope we sort of move past Yarrick as a Ghaz rival, sure he can tag along with Helbrecht when he's hunting Ghaz down but on his own there's simply nothing of interest there IMO. Ghaz is one of the biggest threats in the galaxy and his battles and enemies should reflect that. More chapter masters/primarchs in his future hopefully.

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Citation needed? Are you for real? They're enormous. They're clearly physically larger than regular standard Marines. You don't need official fluff to tell you that. You have eyes!

Yes, the models are bigger, they're scaled to be about seven feet tall compared to GW's normal humans. Which is the canonical height of a Space Marine. I am asking for a citation to the claim that in the fluff the primaris are supposed to be a head taller than the old marines.

From The Regents Shadow, from the POV of a Custodes:

His voice was strange. His entire armour was strange. Out of the six of them, four were clearly wearing a familiar style - Mark VIII - while two were in battle plate I had never witnessed before. Those two seemed larger than they should have been, bulked out by close fitting ceramite that had a finer edge to it than usual. The leader stood almost as tall as I did. I found myself instinctively wondering what it would be like to go up against such a warrior, and began assessing his likely capabilities and power.

So it was that I laid eyes for the first time on a Primaris Marine.

Just a recent example I’ve read of the size of Primaris Marines in the fiction.

ImAGeek wrote:

From The Regents Shadow, from the POV of a Custodes:

His voice was strange. His entire armour was strange. Out of the six of them, four were clearly wearing a familiar style - Mark VIII - while two were in battle plate I had never witnessed before. Those two seemed larger than they should have been, bulked out by close fitting ceramite that had a finer edge to it than usual. The leader stood almost as tall as I did. I found myself instinctively wondering what it would be like to go up against such a warrior, and began assessing his likely capabilities and power.

So it was that I laid eyes for the first time on a Primaris Marine.

Just a recent example I’ve read of the size of Primaris Marines in the fiction.

Thank you. So Primaris are larger than the old marines and almost as large as Custodes. Sounds about right. But 'the head taller' bit isn't there. I'd assume that the new CSM and the Primaris model are appropriately scaled relative to each other and the CSM represent the proper old marine size. So the Primaris are a bit larger, but not massively so.