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So over on B&C it was pointed out that Wulfen have shoulder mounted grenade launchers (and I noticed that they are roughly Primaris sized):

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Try reading Storm of Iron where the iron Warriors infiltrate close to the planetary defences.
Marines not infiltrating would be far more surprising, and especially Phobos marines which is basically their entire deal and the armour is suited and designed especially for it.

I don't need to read Bolter Pron, it still won't make sense to me. It didn't make sense in the Beast Arises series for me, either. I understand the principle, I just think that against certain forces (Orks, Tyranids for example) it's an impossible task. They're too numerous and have no qualms about engaging the enemy. It'd be like trying to infiltrate a gigantic beehive.

Edit - I'll stop giving my opinions on infiltrating marines, it's not really on topic.

I hope that Ragnar does not hold Ghaz' to a draw at any point. If the intention here is to raise Ghaz' to 'Beast' level that would utterly undo it. Beast Orks go toe to toe with Primarchs and the Emperor, not 2nd/3rd in command captains.

Yarrick has a short story that tells of the Ork invasion that kicked off his "now it's personal" vendetta with the Orks and he does a fair bit of sneaking around an Ork infested city.

Orks aren't the Hive Mind, they're egotistical brutes who have worse night vision than most humans.

Pretty sure sentry duty is a Grot's job while the Boyz drink and fight amongst themselves in revelry.

A fragile, easily distracted, easily frightened Grot's job.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Try reading Storm of Iron where the iron Warriors infiltrate close to the planetary defences.
Marines not infiltrating would be far more surprising, and especially Phobos marines which is basically their entire deal and the armour is suited and designed especially for it.

I don't need to read Bolter Pron, it still won't make sense to me. It didn't make sense in the Beast Arises series for me, either. I understand the principle, I just think that against certain forces (Orks, Tyranids for example) it's an impossible task. They're too numerous and have no qualms about engaging the enemy. It'd be like trying to infiltrate a gigantic beehive.

Edit - I'll stop giving my opinions on infiltrating marines, it's not really on topic.

I hope that Ragnar does not hold Ghaz' to a draw at any point. If the intention here is to raise Ghaz' to 'Beast' level that would utterly undo it. Beast Orks go toe to toe with Primarchs and the Emperor, not 2nd/3rd in command captains.

Yarrick has a short story that tells of the Ork invasion that kicked off his "now it's personal" vendetta with the Orks and he does a fair bit of sneaking around an Ork infested city.

Orks aren't the Hive Mind, they're egotistical brutes who have worse night vision than most humans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Who knows where this will end - maybe in...The Beast Falls?

And it's sequel: "The Beast is still Falling (boy that's a long staircase!)"

Ghaz finally reaches the bottom : "Oi have been falling fer three 'OURZ!"
It was then that the space wolves revealed the most heinous aspect of the staircase - it is in fact an escalator that sends whoever's on it straight back to the top. And it's still wet.

12/10 best Black Library book series ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Pretty sure sentry duty is a Grot's job while the Boyz drink and fight amongst themselves in revelry.

A fragile, easily distracted, easily frightened Grot's job.

Whose eyesight is only marginally better than an Ork's to boot.

Orks are disorginized and chaotic, it's not like the Orks set close watches that regularly report in. a small force slippiong past their lines is really quite easy to belive, especially as if what few sentries they do have get quickly killed off in a ambush before they can set the alarm..... it could be hours, even days before the greater hoard clues in...... if they ever do.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Try reading Storm of Iron where the iron Warriors infiltrate close to the planetary defences.
Marines not infiltrating would be far more surprising, and especially Phobos marines which is basically their entire deal and the armour is suited and designed especially for it.

I don't need to read Bolter Pron, it still won't make sense to me. It didn't make sense in the Beast Arises series for me, either. I understand the principle, I just think that against certain forces (Orks, Tyranids for example) it's an impossible task. They're too numerous and have no qualms about engaging the enemy. It'd be like trying to infiltrate a gigantic beehive.

Edit - I'll stop giving my opinions on infiltrating marines, it's not really on topic.

I hope that Ragnar does not hold Ghaz' to a draw at any point. If the intention here is to raise Ghaz' to 'Beast' level that would utterly undo it. Beast Orks go toe to toe with Primarchs and the Emperor, not 2nd/3rd in command captains.

Yarrick has a short story that tells of the Ork invasion that kicked off his "now it's personal" vendetta with the Orks and he does a fair bit of sneaking around an Ork infested city.

Orks aren't the Hive Mind, they're egotistical brutes who have worse night vision than most humans.

Indeed, but Yarrick is a human like you or I.

Space Marines are 7ft tall walking tanks. I suspect weapons that fire mini missiles aren't too quiet either.

Edit - I don't know if you all missed the whole "Ghazzy's Orks aren't like normal Orks" schtick that kinda implied they do things like follow basic tactics and have manned (non-Grot) sentries?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Try reading Storm of Iron where the iron Warriors infiltrate close to the planetary defences.
Marines not infiltrating would be far more surprising, and especially Phobos marines which is basically their entire deal and the armour is suited and designed especially for it.

I don't need to read Bolter Pron, it still won't make sense to me. It didn't make sense in the Beast Arises series for me, either. I understand the principle, I just think that against certain forces (Orks, Tyranids for example) it's an impossible task. They're too numerous and have no qualms about engaging the enemy. It'd be like trying to infiltrate a gigantic beehive.

Edit - I'll stop giving my opinions on infiltrating marines, it's not really on topic.

I hope that Ragnar does not hold Ghaz' to a draw at any point. If the intention here is to raise Ghaz' to 'Beast' level that would utterly undo it. Beast Orks go toe to toe with Primarchs and the Emperor, not 2nd/3rd in command captains.

Yarrick has a short story that tells of the Ork invasion that kicked off his "now it's personal" vendetta with the Orks and he does a fair bit of sneaking around an Ork infested city.

Orks aren't the Hive Mind, they're egotistical brutes who have worse night vision than most humans.

Indeed, but Yarrick is a human like you or I.

Space Marines are 7ft tall walking tanks. I suspect weapons that fire mini missiles aren't too quiet either.

Yes, but Orks likely tend to fire their guns off even when they don't see anything. Also, being stealthy is easy so long as you properly use terrain and avoid contact with the enemy. there's a 3 story building a quarter of a mile away from me.. I can't see it because of hills and trees. terrain is good for that, presumably they're not opting to fight in Saskatchawan (a Canadian province that';s legendarily flat and boring)

Yarrick was a boy who had some training from his Grandfather but mostly was trained in how to fight other boys his age.

Orks, outside of some Yoofs and Stormboyz, are just not known for their well disciplined approach to anything. Even Grots slack off if given half a chance. And the Marine at least has the enhanced senses of his transhuman physiology, as well as vision modes in his helmet, to make seeing the Orks long before they see him and avoid them.

And that's not even getting into chapters like Raven Guard who can sneak up on top of nearly anyone while wearing jump packs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also even the Boyz who followed the Beast were largely a rabble of Orks, so I don't see Ghaz having efficiency that exceeds the Beast.

Well space wolves are certainly not known for going berzerk charging in and killing things and are well known for sneaking up on stuff in their 8ft tall power armour. This is known.



What I want to know is, how on earth is that bird able to fly through this storm and if its cybernetic? Is this explained in the lore at any point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/05/space-wolves-lore-part-2-to-slay-a-beastgw-homepage-post-4/

Is it me or has there been very little in terms of rules.

 Argive wrote:
Well space wolves are certainly not known for going berzerk charging in and killing things and are well known for sneaking up on stuff in their 8ft tall power armour. This is known.



What I want to know is, how on earth is that bird able to fly through this storm and if its cybernetic? Is this explained in the lore at any point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/05/space-wolves-lore-part-2-to-slay-a-beastgw-homepage-post-4/

Is it me or has there been very little in terms of rules.

It looks like rules won't start until next week.

I can't tell if they're slowing the release cycle down or if the stuff is being delayed a bit due to the whole outbreak thing.

 Argive wrote:
Well space wolves are certainly not known for going berzerk charging in and killing things and are well known for sneaking up on stuff in their 8ft tall power armour. This is known.



What I want to know is, how on earth is that bird able to fly through this storm and if its cybernetic? Is this explained in the lore at any point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/05/space-wolves-lore-part-2-to-slay-a-beastgw-homepage-post-4/

Is it me or has there been very little in terms of rules.

It's clearly a grimdark version of the Game of Thrones message raven.

Everybody is forgetting the hardest thing to sneak past, the mass of squigs that are very cunning indeed as they've managed to avoid being caught and eaten by the Orks ad Grots

even though they're not a big threat they are noisy and noise brings in grots looking for dinner and orks looking for a fight (or the grots who should have brought the fungus beer and squig & chips by now)

What's so strange about this release is how weirdly it's paced/ spaced out. How many weeks ago did we get the Makari rules preview (akin to the ones we usually get the week before preorder)? They should've waited with that and all Ghaz teasing and then crank them out at a higher pace IMO

PiñaColada wrote:
What's so strange about this release is how weirdly it's paced/ spaced out. How many weeks ago did we get the Makari rules preview (akin to the ones we usually get the week before preorder)? They should've waited with that and all Ghaz teasing and then crank them out at a higher pace IMO

The pace has definitely slowed.

The Greater Good release was the first of the month of Feb I think.

They've been bad at the pacing since the start. Phoenix Rising dragged ooooooooooooooon then we had the weirdly long wait before a super expensive release that really needed to ride hype.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Well space wolves are certainly not known for going berzerk charging in and killing things and are well known for sneaking up on stuff in their 8ft tall power armour. This is known.



What I want to know is, how on earth is that bird able to fly through this storm and if its cybernetic? Is this explained in the lore at any point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/05/space-wolves-lore-part-2-to-slay-a-beastgw-homepage-post-4/

Is it me or has there been very little in terms of rules.

It looks like rules won't start until next week.

I can't tell if they're slowing the release cycle down or if the stuff is being delayed a bit due to the whole outbreak thing.

It's Njal Stormcallers special psyber raven, so yes, it's cybernetic. And Njal is controling that storm.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So over on B&C it was pointed out that Wulfen have shoulder mounted grenade launchers (and I noticed that they are roughly Primaris sized):

Spoiler:

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So over on B&C it was pointed out that Wulfen have shoulder mounted grenade launchers (and I noticed that they are roughly Primaris sized):

Please hide that hideous model underneath spoiler tags.

 TedNugent wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So over on B&C it was pointed out that Wulfen have shoulder mounted grenade launchers (and I noticed that they are roughly Primaris sized):

Please hide that hideous model underneath spoiler tags.

Nah, enjoy seeing him in your sleep instead.

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

The Wulfen have always been horrific models. But even had they good models, I'd prefer a return to Wulfen being guys who lost it mentally, not literal werewolves. However GW can't help but over do everything at this point. They always have to plus one themselves.

Justyn wrote:

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

The Wulfen have always been horrific models. But even had they good models, I'd prefer a return to Wulfen being guys who lost it mentally, not literal werewolves. However GW can't help but over do everything at this point. They always have to plus one themselves.

I mean 40k is built on one-upmanship, so when you've already done it to everyone else might as well do it to yourself.

Justyn wrote:

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

The Wulfen have always been horrific models. But even had they good models, I'd prefer a return to Wulfen being guys who lost it mentally, not literal werewolves.

That's fair.

I think I'd just like them to actually pick one - either make them literal werewolves or make them 'ordinary' Space Wolves who've gone over the edge.

Trying to do both just means you end up with awful models that look like they're trying to emulate the Ginyu Force.

 vipoid wrote:

Justyn wrote:

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

The Wulfen have always been horrific models. But even had they good models, I'd prefer a return to Wulfen being guys who lost it mentally, not literal werewolves.

That's fair.

I think I'd just like them to actually pick one - either make them literal werewolves or make them 'ordinary' Space Wolves who've gone over the edge.

Trying to do both just means you end up with awful models that look like they're trying to emulate the Ginyu Force.

Not enough posing for Ginyu though.

That said, if you assume Thunderwolves are the natural outcome of the Wulfen curse, then the Wulfen themselves are a nice middle ground where they've started to fall even further, but haven't lost all their humanity.

The original metal Wulfen from 2003 weren’t great. But their fluff was good, and the 13th Company had just enough of a hook to be genuinely interesting. I liked the mix of hardened veterans with a monstrous unit or two scattered for flavor.

Many years later, Curse of the Wulfen brought plastic models for the Wulfen, scaled up with some nice bits, but sillier poses and faces, and absolutely Saturday Morning cartoon-ified the fluff.

If a little goes a long way, a lot goes nowhere.

Still, after seeing the recent Primaris characters, excited to see Ragnar.

And though I don’t play Orks, also excited to see Ghaz.

That said, if you assume Thunderwolves are the natural outcome of the Wulfen curse, then the Wulfen themselves are a nice middle ground where they've started to fall even further, but haven't lost all their humanity.

That one line, has to be the single stupidest thing written by Dan Abnett in his entire life. It may be worse than all of Ward's flanderization put together.

The original metal Wulfen from 2003 weren’t great. But their fluff was good, and the 13th Company had just enough of a hook to be genuinely interesting. I liked the mix of hardened veterans with a monstrous unit or two scattered for flavor.

Not going to lie, I liked the fluff quite a bit about how a few of the 13th managed to survive in the warp all those years. Cooler still they get to be reunited with the fragment of the 13th recently returned from Prospero (complete with Fellblades and Stormbirds).

Many years later, Curse of the Wulfen brought plastic models for the Wulfen, scaled up with some nice bits, but sillier poses and faces, and absolutely Saturday Morning cartoon-ified the fluff.

We referred to them as Space Wolf Ballerinas at the local store I used to play in. Then the new plastic ones came and we realized how much worse they could get.

Still, after seeing the recent Primaris characters, excited to see Ragnar.

Indeed most of the recent Primaris characters have been kick ass. I also hope the scupt is the same quality.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Justyn wrote:

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

The Wulfen have always been horrific models. But even had they good models, I'd prefer a return to Wulfen being guys who lost it mentally, not literal werewolves.

That's fair.

I think I'd just like them to actually pick one - either make them literal werewolves or make them 'ordinary' Space Wolves who've gone over the edge.

Trying to do both just means you end up with awful models that look like they're trying to emulate the Ginyu Force.

Not enough posing for Ginyu though.

That said, if you assume Thunderwolves are the natural outcome of the Wulfen curse, then the Wulfen themselves are a nice middle ground where they've started to fall even further, but haven't lost all their humanity.

Wulfen just being regular dudes is just Space Wolves Death Company. That's a bit boring.

I liked the mix'n'match loyalist and traitor armour that the 13th Company had when they were introduced to the game.

Of course you couldn't do that today with today's plastic minis...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Justyn wrote:

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

The Wulfen have always been horrific models. But even had they good models, I'd prefer a return to Wulfen being guys who lost it mentally, not literal werewolves.

That's fair.

I think I'd just like them to actually pick one - either make them literal werewolves or make them 'ordinary' Space Wolves who've gone over the edge.

Trying to do both just means you end up with awful models that look like they're trying to emulate the Ginyu Force.

Not enough posing for Ginyu though.

That said, if you assume Thunderwolves are the natural outcome of the Wulfen curse, then the Wulfen themselves are a nice middle ground where they've started to fall even further, but haven't lost all their humanity.

Wulfen just being regular dudes is just Space Wolves Death Company. That's a bit boring.

Being regular dudes is more what they were. Now they're more like devolving Astartes who are slipping into a more bestial form.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I liked the mix'n'match loyalist and traitor armour that the 13th Company had when they were introduced to the game.

Of course you couldn't do that today with today's plastic minis...

Why, are Tactical Marines and CSM that hard to mix and match?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Justyn wrote:

As an aside, I think I could actually get behind the idea of Wulfen if they were more bestial. They have clawed-paws instead of feet, okay cool. But then the rest of them is little more than a beefy human with poor dentistry. it's like one of those horrible low-budget werewolves where the transformation involves growing a little extra facial hair and bugger-all else.

Also, I swear to God GW hired Rob Liefeld to design the proportions of these models.

The Wulfen have always been horrific models. But even had they good models, I'd prefer a return to Wulfen being guys who lost it mentally, not literal werewolves.

That's fair.

I think I'd just like them to actually pick one - either make them literal werewolves or make them 'ordinary' Space Wolves who've gone over the edge.

Trying to do both just means you end up with awful models that look like they're trying to emulate the Ginyu Force.

Not enough posing for Ginyu though.

That said, if you assume Thunderwolves are the natural outcome of the Wulfen curse, then the Wulfen themselves are a nice middle ground where they've started to fall even further, but haven't lost all their humanity.

Wulfen just being regular dudes is just Space Wolves Death Company. That's a bit boring.

Being regular dudes is more what they were. Now they're more like devolving Astartes who are slipping into a more bestial form.

Which is what they were originally. Them being regular dudes happened AFTER the beastie bois from the original Black 13th 13th Company list.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Why, are Tactical Marines and CSM that hard to mix and match?

Given that the current CSMs are the nightmare monopose plastics where you have multi-part legs and partial legs that are moulded as part of the torso piece, and that piece A2 only fits with torso back C8 and so on, yes, it would be difficult to mix'n'match.

Outside of backpacks, heads and shoulder pads mixing them around would quite a bit of work, whereas the old kits were virtually plug'n'play (glue notwithstanding).

That and the new CSMs aren't the same scale.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Why, are Tactical Marines and CSM that hard to mix and match?

Given that the current CSMs are the nightmare monopose plastics where you have multi-part legs and partial legs that are moulded as part of the torso piece, and that piece A2 only fits with torso back C8 and so on, yes, it would be difficult to mix'n'match.

Outside of backpacks, heads and shoulder pads mixing them around would quite a bit of work, whereas the old kits were virtually plug'n'play (glue notwithstanding).

That and the new CSMs aren't the same scale.

I thought Tacticals and CSM were the same scale.

As for the harder to mix parts, that's nothing a hobby saw (or clippers) and maybe some green stuff couldn't fix. I mean we used to have it a lot harder when everything was metal, I think people forget how easy plastic is to just chop up and rebuild comparatively.