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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I don't think Bile will come with Chaos Primaris.
However, as he's Dr. Frankenstein and created his own Primaris before it was cool, I could see him with some new Possessed that can also be built as his upgraded marines. Throw in the Venomcrawler, Greater Possessed and Oblits and you have a full wave that could get rules for Daemonkin (or custom legion rules) and Bile in the PA.

Bile isn't really interested in Astartes as much as people think he is for sure. He's more about pushing humanity into a new stage of evolution and would likely try to use the Primaris geneseed much like he has geneseed in the past: as a means to an end, not as a means to producing Chaos Primaris.

That said, at some point we'll likely see Renegade Primaris (it seems only Cawl's special Ez-Bake batch were flaw free at the cost of tactical flexibility) if only because we're seeing all the other usual flaws play out.

Having a small range of models created around Bile and his motley crew of renegades and Enhanced Humans (the ones desgned to take down Astartes in packs) would be interesting - I really enjoyed Josh Reynolds novel about him and them.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Having a small range of models created around Bile and his motley crew of renegades and Enhanced Humans (the ones desgned to take down Astartes in packs) would be interesting - I really enjoyed Josh Reynolds novel about him and them.

Yeah, I would buy this as what the model signals more than an actual Emperor's Children release. People have been speculating, nonstop for the 12 years or so that I have played the game that EC was always just over the horizon. One heck of a horizon, so I'll believe a stand-alone EC release when I actually see it.

Something like a "Daemonkin" warband type thing seems more likely, but of course, we can only wait and see, but I am certainly skeptical about an actual EC release without substantial proof. And, mind you, I own a bunch of old EC stuff from back in the day (before they did away with bits orders).

I would think Daemonkin warband is pretty much anathema to what Fabius stands for.

JWBS wrote:
I would think Daemonkin warband is pretty much anathema to what Fabius stands for.

I just mean something small and standalone rules-wise, not similar in flavor or lore, as opposed to something like a whole EC codex or Legion list, or whatever.

 bullyboy wrote:
Without sounding too whiny, still salty that UM got new Calgar and Tigurius, BA got Mephiston, SW got Ragnar, new Abbaddon, new Ghaz, and now they're redoing Bile........but DA can't get a break. No new Azrael or Ezekiel and then their somewhat average super doctrine is nerfed within 1 month of release. Lol. If it wasn't for the DW and RW boons, that part of PA (from a DA perspective, not GK or TS) would be absolutely worthless.
Lazarus is OK for a generic DA model, but poor Azrael is just tiny. If they redo him eventually, you would be able to use old Azzy as his Watcher in the Dark!

At least you got a model...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Without sounding too whiny, still salty that UM got new Calgar and Tigurius, BA got Mephiston, SW got Ragnar, new Abbaddon, new Ghaz, and now they're redoing Bile........but DA can't get a break. No new Azrael or Ezekiel and then their somewhat average super doctrine is nerfed within 1 month of release. Lol. If it wasn't for the DW and RW boons, that part of PA (from a DA perspective, not GK or TS) would be absolutely worthless.
Lazarus is OK for a generic DA model, but poor Azrael is just tiny. If they redo him eventually, you would be able to use old Azzy as his Watcher in the Dark!

At least you got a model...

x2

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Without sounding too whiny, still salty that UM got new Calgar and Tigurius, BA got Mephiston, SW got Ragnar, new Abbaddon, new Ghaz, and now they're redoing Bile........but DA can't get a break. No new Azrael or Ezekiel and then their somewhat average super doctrine is nerfed within 1 month of release. Lol. If it wasn't for the DW and RW boons, that part of PA (from a DA perspective, not GK or TS) would be absolutely worthless.
Lazarus is OK for a generic DA model, but poor Azrael is just tiny. If they redo him eventually, you would be able to use old Azzy as his Watcher in the Dark!

At least you got a model...

Yeah, BT really got the short end of the stick model wise for PA. I was expecting at least a Primaris or plastic version of the Emperor's Champion, or a proper BT upgrade kit that works with the new model range. Clearly no love for the OG Templar crew at GW.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Without sounding too whiny, still salty that UM got new Calgar and Tigurius, BA got Mephiston, SW got Ragnar, new Abbaddon, new Ghaz, and now they're redoing Bile........but DA can't get a break. No new Azrael or Ezekiel and then their somewhat average super doctrine is nerfed within 1 month of release. Lol. If it wasn't for the DW and RW boons, that part of PA (from a DA perspective, not GK or TS) would be absolutely worthless.
Lazarus is OK for a generic DA model, but poor Azrael is just tiny. If they redo him eventually, you would be able to use old Azzy as his Watcher in the Dark!

At least you got a model...

Yep Dark Angels already have a huge range and got yet another new model as well as the Lions share of a entire PA "Campaign book" so yeah,,,,

I see what you did there!

So for engine war it seems so far to just be the new AdMech kits. I don't think I've seen anything about a new character. Obviously there will be an Ultramarines Primaris Lieutenant, but what else will we see?

StarHunter25 wrote:
So for engine war it seems so far to just be the new AdMech kits. I don't think I've seen anything about a new character. Obviously there will be an Ultramarines Primaris Lieutenant, but what else will we see?

I'm not really expecting new kits for either type of Knights. It's possible we'll get a new Daemon kit (updated Be'lakor maybe? He's gone out of stock). Probably just the new AdMech though.

StarHunter25 wrote:
So for engine war it seems so far to just be the new AdMech kits. I don't think I've seen anything about a new character. Obviously there will be an Ultramarines Primaris Lieutenant, but what else will we see?

Be quite nice to have a new non Mars character but it might just be a ultra radioactive Skitarii!?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Without sounding too whiny, still salty that UM got new Calgar and Tigurius, BA got Mephiston, SW got Ragnar, new Abbaddon, new Ghaz, and now they're redoing Bile........but DA can't get a break. No new Azrael or Ezekiel and then their somewhat average super doctrine is nerfed within 1 month of release. Lol. If it wasn't for the DW and RW boons, that part of PA (from a DA perspective, not GK or TS) would be absolutely worthless.
Lazarus is OK for a generic DA model, but poor Azrael is just tiny. If they redo him eventually, you would be able to use old Azzy as his Watcher in the Dark!

At least you got a model...

This.

Also, you actually got rules such as strats, etc.. which Drukhari, Ynnari, etc.. all did without, as well as a mono-faction bonus that no non-Marine got so far in PA.

So...has anyone else noticed that we were told basically nothing about the War of the Beast? No new rules, doctrines or the like. Isn't the pre-order this weekend?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...has anyone else noticed that we were told basically nothing about the War of the Beast? No new rules, doctrines or the like. Isn't the pre-order this weekend?

No. This weekends preorders are the rest of the Sisters stuff. They might be next weekends preorders, we’ll know on Sunday. In which case we’ll get rules previews next week.

This is pure speculation on my part, so don't get excited certain members of the community who I know want this bad (like real bad) but couldn't Fabulous Bill be a prelude for a true R&H faction? He's all about making humanity fit to fight Astartes right? Sounds like it'd be an ideal match to have this Homunculous Frankenstein type dude that leads the Renegades and Heretics?

Or is it just me?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...has anyone else noticed that we were told basically nothing about the War of the Beast? No new rules, doctrines or the like. Isn't the pre-order this weekend?

Probably next weekend but yes I've noticed and yes I'm sad. Feels like GW have really strung out this release again. As good as Ghaz is, I don't know why we've waited basically 3 weeks longer than others for the reveal.

In other news - there were rumours that PA would introduce Ghaz and after PA Orks would be getting a bit of a model line revamp. I would wet my Orky britches if it's true.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is pure speculation on my part, so don't get excited certain members of the community who I know want this bad (like real bad) but couldn't Fabulous Bill be a prelude for a true R&H faction? He's all about making humanity fit to fight Astartes right? Sounds like it'd be an ideal match to have this Homunculous Frankenstein type dude that leads the Renegades and Heretics?

Or is it just me?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...has anyone else noticed that we were told basically nothing about the War of the Beast? No new rules, doctrines or the like. Isn't the pre-order this weekend?

Probably next weekend but yes I've noticed and yes I'm sad. Feels like GW have really strung out this release again. As good as Ghaz is, I don't know why we've waited basically 3 weeks longer than others for the reveal.

In other news - there were rumours that PA would introduce Ghaz and after PA Orks would be getting a bit of a model line revamp. I would wet my Orky britches if it's true.

I wonder if the delay on saga of the beast is due to the marine faq? They probably began printing a book with the old strats and doctrines rules in, or had to slow down to amend it before printing.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is pure speculation on my part, so don't get excited certain members of the community who I know want this bad (like real bad) but couldn't Fabulous Bill be a prelude for a true R&H faction? He's all about making humanity fit to fight Astartes right? Sounds like it'd be an ideal match to have this Homunculous Frankenstein type dude that leads the Renegades and Heretics?

Or is it just me?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...has anyone else noticed that we were told basically nothing about the War of the Beast? No new rules, doctrines or the like. Isn't the pre-order this weekend?

Probably next weekend but yes I've noticed and yes I'm sad. Feels like GW have really strung out this release again. As good as Ghaz is, I don't know why we've waited basically 3 weeks longer than others for the reveal.

In other news - there were rumours that PA would introduce Ghaz and after PA Orks would be getting a bit of a model line revamp. I would wet my Orky britches if it's true.

Pretty much Orktober again haha! Im hyped, but less hyped each week after the first Ghaz trailer a few weeks back.

Seeing that most of the GW books are printed in China it is possible that the outbreak of c-Veronica has delayed delivery and they are spreading things out more than the original plan was.

I think if it were that they would post something about it ? Like when the Sylvaneth were delayed

 deffrekka wrote:
I think if it were that they would post something about it ? Like when the Sylvaneth were delayed

True, but im thinking that back then it was an unexpected one-off situation. This time it is an ongoing situation that will effect multiple future releases not just one batch already on route.

It wouldn't surprise me if Bile is going to herald a 'new' army if he's not just going to be a stand alone,

it would fit with the (I hope they're true) rumours of several new factions in the pipeline

Bile has enough name recognition in the community to draw older players, and a new chaos faction gives them something to build off if they do decide to retire old marines (and their enemies) for all Primeris, all the time

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is pure speculation on my part, so don't get excited certain members of the community who I know want this bad (like real bad) but couldn't Fabulous Bill be a prelude for a true R&H faction? He's all about making humanity fit to fight Astartes right? Sounds like it'd be an ideal match to have this Homunculous Frankenstein type dude that leads the Renegades and Heretics?

Or is it just me?

Ehhh i guess , the new men were afterall also planned to be leaders.
Otoh there would be better more iconic formations for an introduction into R&H.
F.e. bloodpact, the heavy Regiment of cadians that turned , carnibales, even the shriven.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ValentineGames wrote:
I'd give my opinion on Thraka. But unless you're a raging fanboy you're not allowed to speak freely on here without people whinging and mods flailing at you.
So I'll hold my tongue on that piece of garbage... Oops.

Blackmane is alright. Jumping off a pigeon wing is really stupid. That'd need removing.

He is too terminatorized ( the armor imo) for an ork, also his powerklaw has a klaw too much in the middle and the new shoota he got looks, i dunno , Bad for ork standards.

Allbeit that is my opinion .

Justyn wrote:

Ghaz is basically the Marneus Calgar of orks. If Calgar got jobbed by Vargard Oberyn don't you think that'd be a bit weird?

Sure, because nobody who doesn't play necrons knows a thing about that guy. Ragnar has been around since late Rogue Trader. Has an entire list of books about him. Go on, keep saying to yourself that he is just a nobody Captain.

I have absolutely no idea who Ragnar is, and I've been playing since 3rd edition, when the Witchhunter codex was released. Started following the fluff earlier, right during the big 3rd war for armaggedon campaign.
I mean, I know Ragnar is a space wolf, I know Ragner had a super-old miniature, and... that's about it?
I know more about the goddamn Doomrider than I know about this guy.
I mean, what's special about him?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Fabious Bile is going to be his own faction, in PA. He will get 6 different name generators, so you can roll on which name generator you will generate the name. And all the possible rolls all give the same result: Fabious Bile!

I'm that close to giving in and buying the spectacular Abbadon for my shelf, but now that Fabius Bile is lurking on the horizon, I will wait a bit longer ...

Not Online!!! wrote:

Ehhh i guess , the new men were afterall also planned to be leaders.
Otoh there would be better more iconic formations for an introduction into R&H.
F.e. bloodpact, the heavy Regiment of cadians that turned , carnibales, even the shriven.

Blood Pact are long dead as a recognizable entity(same thing with the Tanith in all likelihood, but there's that whole wacky tradition nonsense that can get played up) and the Volscani(which weren't Cadians) got wiped out on the Founding Fields by Creed.

The problem with "iconic formations" for R&H seems to be that there aren't really any that successfully have staying power, and they tend to be introduced for story arcs rather than full on "these are how things are done now".

We're definitely due a rival Imperium on the other side of the Cicatrix Maledictum. One that has kept order, contained the warbands and allowed humanity to survive by dealing with the Dark Gods and pitting their followers against each other.

One that's not content to let rebels and do-gooders damn half the galaxy because they won't do what needs to be done and instead just wait futilely for the Old Imperium to come and save them.

One side is the Terran Imperium, fighting against chaos cults and Chaos warbands - the other side is the Dark Imperium, fighting against the Imperial resistance and rogue crusades.

 Grimskul wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Without sounding too whiny, still salty that UM got new Calgar and Tigurius, BA got Mephiston, SW got Ragnar, new Abbaddon, new Ghaz, and now they're redoing Bile........but DA can't get a break. No new Azrael or Ezekiel and then their somewhat average super doctrine is nerfed within 1 month of release. Lol. If it wasn't for the DW and RW boons, that part of PA (from a DA perspective, not GK or TS) would be absolutely worthless.
Lazarus is OK for a generic DA model, but poor Azrael is just tiny. If they redo him eventually, you would be able to use old Azzy as his Watcher in the Dark!

At least you got a model...

Yeah, BT really got the short end of the stick model wise for PA. I was expecting at least a Primaris or plastic version of the Emperor's Champion, or a proper BT upgrade kit that works with the new model range. Clearly no love for the OG Templar crew at GW.

That or they're working on budgets for each book and the BT budget wasn't there. It doesn't mean nothing is being worked on, or even that we won't see stuff expanded out (I mean this is a 1.5 update to make BT playable, but it's not their actual book, which means a release in the future is still very possible).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is pure speculation on my part, so don't get excited certain members of the community who I know want this bad (like real bad) but couldn't Fabulous Bill be a prelude for a true R&H faction? He's all about making humanity fit to fight Astartes right? Sounds like it'd be an ideal match to have this Homunculous Frankenstein type dude that leads the Renegades and Heretics?

Or is it just me?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...has anyone else noticed that we were told basically nothing about the War of the Beast? No new rules, doctrines or the like. Isn't the pre-order this weekend?

Probably next weekend but yes I've noticed and yes I'm sad. Feels like GW have really strung out this release again. As good as Ghaz is, I don't know why we've waited basically 3 weeks longer than others for the reveal.

In other news - there were rumours that PA would introduce Ghaz and after PA Orks would be getting a bit of a model line revamp. I would wet my Orky britches if it's true.

I'm wondering if the slowdown is to let the production facilities to get ahead on future releases, or more shipping issues with China meaning that they have to push some things slower than others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Justyn wrote:

Ghaz is basically the Marneus Calgar of orks. If Calgar got jobbed by Vargard Oberyn don't you think that'd be a bit weird?

Sure, because nobody who doesn't play necrons knows a thing about that guy. Ragnar has been around since late Rogue Trader. Has an entire list of books about him. Go on, keep saying to yourself that he is just a nobody Captain.

I have absolutely no idea who Ragnar is, and I've been playing since 3rd edition, when the Witchhunter codex was released. Started following the fluff earlier, right during the big 3rd war for armaggedon campaign.
I mean, I know Ragnar is a space wolf, I know Ragner had a super-old miniature, and... that's about it?
I know more about the goddamn Doomrider than I know about this guy.
I mean, what's special about him?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Fabious Bile is going to be his own faction, in PA. He will get 6 different name generators, so you can roll on which name generator you will generate the name. And all the possible rolls all give the same result: Fabious Bile!

Ragnar has been around since 2nd edition and has his own series of books. He largely has an ongoing beef with a Thousand Sons sorceror named Madox, and he was likely involved in the first war for Armagheddon so he's been involved in two events involving Daemon Primarchs prior to this.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Justyn wrote:

Ghaz is basically the Marneus Calgar of orks. If Calgar got jobbed by Vargard Oberyn don't you think that'd be a bit weird?

Sure, because nobody who doesn't play necrons knows a thing about that guy. Ragnar has been around since late Rogue Trader. Has an entire list of books about him. Go on, keep saying to yourself that he is just a nobody Captain.

I have absolutely no idea who Ragnar is, and I've been playing since 3rd edition, when the Witchhunter codex was released. Started following the fluff earlier, right during the big 3rd war for armaggedon campaign.
I mean, I know Ragnar is a space wolf, I know Ragner had a super-old miniature, and... that's about it?
I know more about the goddamn Doomrider than I know about this guy.
I mean, what's special about him?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Fabious Bile is going to be his own faction, in PA. He will get 6 different name generators, so you can roll on which name generator you will generate the name. And all the possible rolls all give the same result: Fabious Bile!

What makes Ragnar so special is that he rose through the ranks of his great company faster than any other wolf lord before him. He literally went from rookie to wolf lord skipping all other ranks inbetween.
He has achieved more in his short time as a space marine than most in their whole life.

Really, he has been a neglected character who has been long overdue for this time to shine.