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I love that they couldn't bother to make his gun D2 or let him keep his exploding 6s in melee if he's hanging out with other Orks.
Lemme guess, he's not a LoW either?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I love that they couldn't bother to make his gun D2 or let him keep his exploding 6s in melee if he's hanging out with other Orks.
Lemme guess, he's not a LoW either?

The punchline is that he's not affected by his Waaagh ability, so he can't run and charge any more.

 TedNugent wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I love that they couldn't bother to make his gun D2 or let him keep his exploding 6s in melee if he's hanging out with other Orks.
Lemme guess, he's not a LoW either?

The punchline is that he's not affected by his Waaagh ability, so he can't run and charge any more.

Honestly, makari is flatt out better.
A grot Beats an ork.


This is why we need an grot supplement.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Interesting. So Ghaz would have a 6+++ as well as only being able to lose 4 wounds. Seems pretty tough. Would you mount other units in Trukks still eith him or just charge heaps of dudes up with him on foot?

He can't get in a Trukk. He's not infantry.

Edit: Unless I misread your post, and you're asking about him walking alongside Trukks, which would make the trukks slower.

 Rinkydink wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Ghazkull rules

Spoiler:

He's a beast in CC no doubt, and only losing 4 wounds per phase is pretty huge; especially if you have a painboy nearby, but no real big army support buffs (*read re-rolls... for any other clans other than Goffs). But it is good that the clans aren't locked into Goff's from the get-go. Plus he can be targeted as he has a lot of wounds.

Is he better than Guilliman? No. Not even close.

I think it really REALLY depends, as a Marine player I would NOT want to get Gulliman into combat with Ghaz. the "only 4 wounds per turn" thing would really skew a fight.

Let's look a hypothetical match up between Ghaz and Gulliman, We'll assume the combat happens on turn 2, Ghaz has taken 4 points of damage already because "HOLY gak HE NEEDS TO DIE!"

So Ghaz goes into the combat with 8 wounds vs Gulliman's 9

Gulliman has 6 attacks (well.. 7 with shock attack) but his attack number is irrelevant, he'll deal 4 damage and thats it, meaning that even if Gulliman gets the charge, Ghaz'll be able to get a round of attacks. now given he's at 8 wounds he gets 5 attacks at S 7 (well S14 given his claws double HP) mathhammer says that Ghaz'll inflict 8 unsaved wounds on his attack. (which means all you need is slightly above average rolling to kill Gulliman)

comparing Abaddon under the same criteria?

Abaddon actually comes out a little better only taking 4 wounds thanks to his dark destiny reducing all damage by half.


this BTW isn't taking into consideration Makari who can give Ghaz a 6+ FNP if they're together

He’s DOA... slow, weak shooting, most auras Goff only, cant even benefit from his own Waugh to make him move add and charge, no painboys aka no fnp or wound healing unless makari and Goff list footsloggin... and power level indicates 280+ points aka overpriced.... hard pass unless they give him multiple insane strats and/or faq his wagghhh to work on himself and grotsnik to work on him since that’s the entire point of every story of grotsnik saving ghaz’s ass.

gungo wrote:
He’s DOA... slow, weak shooting, most auras Goff only, cant even benefit from his own Waugh to make him move add and charge, no painboys aka no fnp or wound healing unless makari and Goff list footsloggin... and power level indicates 280+ points aka overpriced.... hard pass unless they give him multiple insane strats and/or faq his wagghhh to work on himself and grotsnik to work on him since that’s the entire point of every story of grotsnik saving ghaz’s ass.

I reaaaally think you're under estimating that "may only take 4 damage a round" that combined with his 7 inches movement (until at least turn 3) means he's decent fast. it would be nice if GW would FAQ his great waagh ability to also apply to HIM. but even if not I think I can see how it could be used. march him up alongside a buncha boyz and nobs, declare hius waagh, and then launch them ahead, next turn have Ghaz amble up to exploit any openings.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Rinkydink wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Ghazkull rules

Spoiler:

He's a beast in CC no doubt, and only losing 4 wounds per phase is pretty huge; especially if you have a painboy nearby, but no real big army support buffs (*read re-rolls... for any other clans other than Goffs). But it is good that the clans aren't locked into Goff's from the get-go. Plus he can be targeted as he has a lot of wounds.

Is he better than Guilliman? No. Not even close.

I think it really REALLY depends, as a Marine player I would NOT want to get Gulliman into combat with Ghaz. the "only 4 wounds per turn" thing would really skew a fight.

Let's look a hypothetical match up between Ghaz and Gulliman, We'll assume the combat happens on turn 2, Ghaz has taken 4 points of damage already because "HOLY gak HE NEEDS TO DIE!"

So Ghaz goes into the combat with 8 wounds vs Gulliman's 9

Gulliman has 6 attacks (well.. 7 with shock attack) but his attack number is irrelevant, he'll deal 4 damage and thats it, meaning that even if Gulliman gets the charge, Ghaz'll be able to get a round of attacks. now given he's at 8 wounds he gets 5 attacks at S 7 (well S14 given his claws double HP) mathhammer says that Ghaz'll inflict 8 unsaved wounds on his attack. (which means all you need is slightly above average rolling to kill Gulliman)

comparing Abaddon under the same criteria?

Abaddon actually comes out a little better only taking 4 wounds thanks to his dark destiny reducing all damage by half.

ghaz shooting is irrelevant and his auras don’t do much the first 2 turns... instead he moves 7 +d6 adv turn 1, then moves 6+d6 turn 2 .. he can’t charge cause his waaggh doesn’t work on him... he hasn’t even made it to your deployment zone and has already taken at least 8 wounds....turn 3 he’s dead by shooting or turn 2 if charge into him or use psychic powers.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

gungo wrote:
He’s DOA... slow, weak shooting, most auras Goff only, cant even benefit from his own Waugh to make him move add and charge, no painboys aka no fnp or wound healing unless makari and Goff list footsloggin... and power level indicates 280+ points aka overpriced.... hard pass unless they give him multiple insane strats and/or faq his wagghhh to work on himself and grotsnik to work on him since that’s the entire point of every story of grotsnik saving ghaz’s ass.

I reaaaally think you're under estimating that "may only take 4 damage a round" that combined with his 7 inches movement (until at least turn 3) means he's decent fast. it would be nice if GW would FAQ his great waagh ability to also apply to HIM. but even if not I think I can see how it could be used. march him up alongside a buncha boyz and nobs, declare hius waagh, and then launch them ahead, next turn have Ghaz amble up to exploit any openings.

if it was 4 a round sure.... it’s 4 a phase... 7 move plus d6 adv .... shoot 4 wounds, use psychic powers or ignore him.... turn 2 he’s 6 move now and d6 adv and he can’t even charge.. He’s about 20 inches across the table almost at your deployment zone shoot again and use psychic powers... is he dead yet? Nope charge him with a unit he’s on his last profile and almost dead!

BrianDavion wrote:

gungo wrote:
He’s DOA... slow, weak shooting, most auras Goff only, cant even benefit from his own Waugh to make him move add and charge, no painboys aka no fnp or wound healing unless makari and Goff list footsloggin... and power level indicates 280+ points aka overpriced.... hard pass unless they give him multiple insane strats and/or faq his wagghhh to work on himself and grotsnik to work on him since that’s the entire point of every story of grotsnik saving ghaz’s ass.

I reaaaally think you're under estimating that "may only take 4 damage a round" that combined with his 7 inches movement (until at least turn 3) means he's decent fast. it would be nice if GW would FAQ his great waagh ability to also apply to HIM. but even if not I think I can see how it could be used. march him up alongside a buncha boyz and nobs, declare hius waagh, and then launch them ahead, next turn have Ghaz amble up to exploit any openings.

It's not 4 damage a round, it's 4 damage a phase. He can be killed in one turn.

If he’s infantry can you not just da jump him or deepstrike using the strat?

Unfortunately he's a monster, not infantry. So no Jump or Transports.

He's pretty terrible tbh.

demontalons wrote:
If he’s infantry can you not just da jump him or deepstrike using the strat?

monster not infantry you can’t da jump or pain boy or grot shield him. Strat works but still means he’s away from the rest of your army and will take 2 turns of shooting psychic powers and overwatch before he hits something.

The worst part about this is that all the doomsayers were proven right.

GW actually doesn't care enough about orks to put the damn model on the table and properly playtest it once.

Heck, he even has less attacks now than before

 Jidmah wrote:
The worst part about this is that all the doomsayers were proven right.

GW actually doesn't care enough about orks to put the damn model on the table and properly playtest it once.

That's not true. They must have had to try pretty hard to write his rules so that they conflicted.

Perhaps they will FAQ him eventually.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The worst part about this is that all the doomsayers were proven right.

GW actually doesn't care enough about orks to put the damn model on the table and properly playtest it once.

That's not true. They must have had to try pretty hard to write his rules so that they conflicted.

Perhaps they will FAQ him eventually.

hwo do they conflict? that he can't buff himself isn't nesscarily a conflict

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The worst part about this is that all the doomsayers were proven right.

GW actually doesn't care enough about orks to put the damn model on the table and properly playtest it once.

That's not true. They must have had to try pretty hard to write his rules so that they conflicted.

Perhaps they will FAQ him eventually.

maybe his waaagh gets faq.... and maybe some decent Goff strats and maybe ghaz And Makari with a small goff detachment with a secondary death skull detachment will be decent,. We will see.

Like maybe ghazs teleports in
2x 30 skarboy units wierdboy da jumps them.
Still need to get Makari close enough to ghaz to make it work because skarboys issue is surving not melee...
And I’m hopeful for big mek w kff and relics, strats to help

So he can't get into a Battlewagon with a bodyguard of MANZ.

Way to go GW.

Looks like orks got the wrong end of the stick, again...

mortar_crew wrote:
Looks like orks got the wrong end of the stick, again...

Apparently Ragnar gets 10 attacks when charging, charged, or intervening, to compare Space Wolves to Orks.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So he can't get into a Battlewagon with a bodyguard of MANZ.

Way to go GW.

people wanted the new Ghaz to be a Primork level beast. the phrase "Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind

 TedNugent wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I love that they couldn't bother to make his gun D2 or let him keep his exploding 6s in melee if he's hanging out with other Orks.
Lemme guess, he's not a LoW either?

The punchline is that he's not affected by his Waaagh ability, so he can't run and charge any more.

GW not bothering to look at their own rules shocks me a lot not gonna lie

BrianDavion wrote:
people wanted the new Ghaz to be a Primork level beast. the phrase "Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind

Ain't that the truth.

Meanwhile, Mad Dok Grotsnik can't heal Ghaz. Figure that one out. x2

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So he can't get into a Battlewagon with a bodyguard of MANZ.

Way to go GW.

people wanted the new Ghaz to be a Primork level beast. the phrase "Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind

I can't tell if you're defending GWs crap writing again or not.

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The worst part about this is that all the doomsayers were proven right.

GW actually doesn't care enough about orks to put the damn model on the table and properly playtest it once.

That's not true. They must have had to try pretty hard to write his rules so that they conflicted.

Perhaps they will FAQ him eventually.

hwo do they conflict? that he can't buff himself isn't nesscarily a conflict

While true it's not a conflict, it is slightly unprecedented. Or at least rare for a model to buff others but not itself with an aura(I can't think of a model that does that currently)

 Dysartes wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
None of his stats are "-",

So what you mean is that either he doesn't have a degrading profile, or his degrading profile has a new value for every stat?

Yes.

Say that again ?

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. In the plus side, work players wont have to buy an expensive model in order to stay competitive. Rejoice.

gungo wrote:

demontalons wrote:
If he’s infantry can you not just da jump him or deepstrike using the strat?

monster not infantry you can’t da jump or pain boy or grot shield him. Strat works but still means he’s away from the rest of your army and will take 2 turns of shooting psychic powers and overwatch before he hits something.

He comes with tellyporta on t2. His aura's aren't that relevant t1 anymay. Opponent gets one chance to shoothcast before he charges half the time. Half the time he charges out of tellyporta and overwatch is 99% times not caring. And not every army has enough non-sites to worry ghaz

Bloody hell what's happened here? It's bad times if I'M the positive one on here.

We haven't seen anything else from Saga yet. There could be stratagems, psychic powers or other abilities that make Ghaz' ultra competitive.

Even with nothing else - he can (and should) be Tellyported in (which is pretty fluffy, to be fair, but maybe it should've been included as a free ability). Use the first turn to clear screens so he gets to the juicier targets behind and sits there Krumping. Even if he Tellyports, his auras still work on other units that may or may not be footslogging.

The model is fantastic and looks perfect imo, so that's great.

He's the only model in the game today with a max wounds per phase limit.

Gits (Ork players) - take a chill pill, even if Ghaz' isn't Uber competitive, we may yet get other options that push us into decent territory. The concerns here can wait until after we've seen the book.

And even if at the end of the day his rules suck.. (I don't think they do) he's still an amazing mini. and a Mini lasts a lot longer then rules

I would one hundred percent agree with Englishman here, the way 40k works now is not how it used to work in 3rd where everything relied on the datasheet . Armies rely on army wide rules and saga of the beast may totally change the ork way of playing.
Personally the way I would be using ghaz is in deepstrike. Have all your Boyz move up and advance as far as possible turn 1 and 2 then drop ghaz into the blob end of town 2 movement phase and even if everything has advanced you can still charge them in. Once the Boyz have done their work ghaz is the wrecking ball coming in behind them causing havoc.