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 Billagio wrote:
Resellers are gonna post Ghaz/Markari for like half the price of the box retail lol

Probably, and then the whining will commence "wHy So ExPenSiVe!!1!"--ignoring that resellers bought up discount boxes and probably took a loss.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Justyn wrote:

If you're not shooting for at least $35/five Infiltrators or Incursors? You're screwing yourself over.

And where is this magic land where you can sell contents of a GW box for OVER retail.

In this instance, it would be called "a place that isn't ebay".

But given how many full sets are already cropping up for $35 on there with "delivery dates" that match up to when they'd have this new battlebox in hand? You would have missed out on the opportunity already. People are pricing the full kit now based upon the Shadowspear kit(which seems to be sitting at $27.50 or so), so prepare for dirt cheap Infiltrators/Incursors.

I'm not seeing full sets of the dual kit for $35 anywhere. I'm seeing 5 model half sets of the dual kit, but not full ones. The only full 10 model sets I see for that price are the Shadowspear/Start Collecting versions.

 Togusa wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
So, I saw the data card for Gaz. What does everyone think about that brand new ability with his wounds? Seems pretty nice to me, something I wish the Swarmlord had...

Gw doing silly patchup's to broken core resulting in ghaz being immune to one shot by volcano cannon while warlord titan isn't.

Bloat and ducttape for bloatgod

I actually like the rule for characters that have more than 12 wounds. Volcano Cannons are made TO kill Warlord titans. It makes perfect sense to me.

The problem with shooting a Volcano Cannon at something which isn't TITANIC is reflected in the accuracy penalty - but if that shot hits, that's a hell of a lot of destructive energy being dropped into the target.

Yet in the case of Ghaz, it can cap out at doing 4W, regardless of how much damage the attack generates? That makes no sense.

In short - once we get past saves (and Invulnerable Saves, and Feel No Pain rules), why should a character be more resilient in this way than any other unit in the game/setting?

I saw maybe 3-4 when searching for "Warhammer 40k Infiltrators" that had delivery dates of March 21st. It's possible that they were using the box pictures but were the Shadowspear/SC ones.

The problem with shooting a Volcano Cannon at something which isn't TITANIC is reflected in the accuracy penalty - but if that shot hits, that's a hell of a lot of destructive energy being dropped into the target.

Yet in the case of Ghaz, it can cap out at doing 4W, regardless of how much damage the attack generates? That makes no sense.

In short - once we get past saves (and Invulnerable Saves, and Feel No Pain rules), why should a character be more resilient in this way than any other unit in the game/setting?

Its still not as resilient as anything with a Tau drone nearby. Its a glaring problem with the system.

I saw maybe 3-4 when searching for "Warhammer 40k Infiltrators" that had delivery dates of March 21st. It's possible that they were using the box pictures but were the Shadowspear/SC ones.

That just happens to be the ship date to your house from now. If you look at most of those they have had the same auction up for months and have been selling and shipping them for months.

 Togusa wrote:
So, I saw the data card for Gaz. What does everyone think about that brand new ability with his wounds? Seems pretty nice to me, something I wish the Swarmlord had...

It's actually a pretty good idea IMO. It is a band-aid on a flawed ruleset, but a decent one for that. With his auras fixed, I could see Thrakka actually do something when his points eventually drop to a level where he is playable.

How long do they usually take before doing faction rules previews after model kits are revealed? The article said they would be running previews this week.

I was wondering if we might get something sooner than Thursday.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
So, I saw the data card for Gaz. What does everyone think about that brand new ability with his wounds? Seems pretty nice to me, something I wish the Swarmlord had...

It's actually a pretty good idea IMO. It is a band-aid on a flawed ruleset, but a decent one for that. With his auras fixed, I could see Thrakka actually do something when his points eventually drop to a level where he is playable.

Do we know points values? or makaris full rules?

Do we know points values? or makaris full rules?

Makaris rules are a couple pages back. Image of his datasheet, so should be full rules. Points values are just guesses based on Power Level at this time.

Well, you can sell over retail for high demand OOP stuff easily. However, you should also be charging around market price for current stuff; if 5 intercessors sell for $35 on eBay...sell for $34-35. You’d be throwing away money if you charged $20. If they sell for $20...you’d be an idiot to try to sell them for $35. Basically common sense. Know your market.

Ok, so instead of a Volcano Cannon, let's use a QFB Coldstar. A single QFB Coldstar can wipe out a Knight or Baneblade in a single salvo, but somehow Ghaz can walk away practicably unscratched?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ok, so instead of a Volcano Cannon, let's use a QFB Coldstar. A single QFB Coldstar can wipe out a Knight or Baneblade in a single salvo, but somehow Ghaz can walk away practicably unscratched?

Do those Baneblades have literal divine protection? No. Deal with it.

JSG wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ragnar would easily be a $40 kit by himself, same as Shadowsun and the various Chapter heroes were.
Ghaz would easily be a $60 kit.

That's $100 right there. $30 for Nobz, $63 for Meganobz, $60 for the Infiltrator/Incursor kit.
Puts you at $253 in content for $185--savings of $68(probably would be more if Meganobz weren't in there to be honest).

Frankly, Ork players will be the ones getting shafted in terms of "making their money back"(which, IMO, is a terrible way to look at these kinds of things as it makes it sound like you expect to make back the whole amount rather than what you didn't want) since Ragnar's a $40 piece and Infiltrator/Incursor kit is $60 and people still don't seem to understand that the contents are different to the dirt cheap Shadowspear Infiltrators that are still floating around having been partsed out.

those are full msrp new in box retail prices not eBay prices! No one cares about that. It’s either they need the figures or they sell them on eBay to make their money back.

Infiltrators are 35$ on eBay not 60... I’m paying 168$ with tax at 20% discount for this set and selling the infiltrators for 35 or less after the market is flooded with them then trying to scalp Ragnar for as much as I can so I don’t incur a loss ... this set is horribly priced

Using ebay prices to justify claims that a discounted box is over priced? Have we just hit peak cope?

The point is this boxset is a horrid deal for orks who have no intention of playing drek marines! Even if I go discounted box set online I’m still paying 168$ plus tax maybe shipping then shifting infiltrators nobody Really needs at $35 (if prices don’t plummet) all for the glory to get ghaz and maybe some orks I really don’t need for $133 minus whatever I can scalp Ragnar for... thats a horrid deal no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

gungo wrote:

JSG wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ragnar would easily be a $40 kit by himself, same as Shadowsun and the various Chapter heroes were.
Ghaz would easily be a $60 kit.

That's $100 right there. $30 for Nobz, $63 for Meganobz, $60 for the Infiltrator/Incursor kit.
Puts you at $253 in content for $185--savings of $68(probably would be more if Meganobz weren't in there to be honest).

Frankly, Ork players will be the ones getting shafted in terms of "making their money back"(which, IMO, is a terrible way to look at these kinds of things as it makes it sound like you expect to make back the whole amount rather than what you didn't want) since Ragnar's a $40 piece and Infiltrator/Incursor kit is $60 and people still don't seem to understand that the contents are different to the dirt cheap Shadowspear Infiltrators that are still floating around having been partsed out.

those are full msrp new in box retail prices not eBay prices! No one cares about that. It’s either they need the figures or they sell them on eBay to make their money back.

Infiltrators are 35$ on eBay not 60... I’m paying 168$ with tax at 20% discount for this set and selling the infiltrators for 35 or less after the market is flooded with them then trying to scalp Ragnar for as much as I can so I don’t incur a loss ... this set is horribly priced

Using ebay prices to justify claims that a discounted box is over priced? Have we just hit peak cope?

The point is this boxset is a horrid deal for orks who have no intention of playing drek marines! Even if I go discounted box set online I’m still paying 168$ plus tax maybe shipping then shifting infiltrators nobody Really needs at $35 (if prices don’t plummet) all for the glory to get ghaz and maybe some orks I really don’t need for $133 minus whatever I can scalp Ragnar for... thats a horrid deal no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

So just pick up Ghaz on eBay, or just wait...

He'll be in his own box soon enough.

For those of us that are happy with the contained models, this box looks great.

pm713 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ok, so instead of a Volcano Cannon, let's use a QFB Coldstar. A single QFB Coldstar can wipe out a Knight or Baneblade in a single salvo, but somehow Ghaz can walk away practicably unscratched?

Do those Baneblades have literal divine protection? No. Deal with it.

The Omnissiah would like a word.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ok, so instead of a Volcano Cannon, let's use a QFB Coldstar. A single QFB Coldstar can wipe out a Knight or Baneblade in a single salvo, but somehow Ghaz can walk away practicably unscratched?

Ghaz is LITERALLY a prophet of gods. He has Gork and Mork for shrugging off the FB shots

People didn't like fickle dice and "whiffing" in their game, so for 2 years, GW piled on extra shots, double shooting/fighting, more rerolls on everything, removed neg-modifiers for moving or as a defensive mechanism, etc.., etc..

Than people didn't like stuff dying immediately (surprise) but also don't like being able to target stuff at all.

Guess 100% predictable damage output and 100% predictable damage input is the future of what people want in this game. Time to throw the dice out already



That said, every time GW has a new idea for a mechanic, they roll it out exponentially.

Not being able to deepstrike in 12" was a cute idea for the GSC Clamavus last February. Now there's hardly an army update that doesn't throw that rule to somebody.
Not being able to wound a model on unmodified roll of "X" was a novel thing for a single Chaos Knight, now entire armies can get that rule.


I fully expect the Imperial / Chaos Knight & (Greater) Daemon PA to be littered with variants of the Ghaz rule, given how people complain about Knights and Greater Daemons being to fragile in many games.

Valrak claims price confirmed at 105 GBP.

Not sure what his source is. Warhammer Community article today is just a retrospective on historical Ghaz and Ragnar models.

 Billagio wrote:
Resellers are gonna post Ghaz/Markari for like half the price of the box retail lol

I don’t think that’ll be far off what he is when he comes out. The box is £105 here, and I don’t think Ghaz will be less than £50. He’s bigger than Abaddon and Guilliman (who are £37.50) and comes with Makari (who would easily be £15 if he was released separately).

There any pics of Ghaz looking the other way so to speak? Wondered if that looks any better or worse than staring down the gun.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ok, so instead of a Volcano Cannon, let's use a QFB Coldstar. A single QFB Coldstar can wipe out a Knight or Baneblade in a single salvo, but somehow Ghaz can walk away practicably unscratched?

Do those Baneblades have literal divine protection? No. Deal with it.

The Omnissiah would like a word.

The Omnissiah is busy doing other things or doesn't do anything depending on your viewpoint. Either way, a Baneblade doesn't have the divine protection Ghaz does.

pm713 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ok, so instead of a Volcano Cannon, let's use a QFB Coldstar. A single QFB Coldstar can wipe out a Knight or Baneblade in a single salvo, but somehow Ghaz can walk away practicably unscratched?

Do those Baneblades have literal divine protection? No. Deal with it.

The Omnissiah would like a word.

The Omnissiah is busy doing other things or doesn't do anything depending on your viewpoint. Either way, a Baneblade doesn't have the divine protection Ghaz does.

He's had divine intervention once, the number of times he's almost died kinda shows he'd probably end up eating fusion beans.

gungo wrote:

JSG wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ragnar would easily be a $40 kit by himself, same as Shadowsun and the various Chapter heroes were.
Ghaz would easily be a $60 kit.

That's $100 right there. $30 for Nobz, $63 for Meganobz, $60 for the Infiltrator/Incursor kit.
Puts you at $253 in content for $185--savings of $68(probably would be more if Meganobz weren't in there to be honest).

Frankly, Ork players will be the ones getting shafted in terms of "making their money back"(which, IMO, is a terrible way to look at these kinds of things as it makes it sound like you expect to make back the whole amount rather than what you didn't want) since Ragnar's a $40 piece and Infiltrator/Incursor kit is $60 and people still don't seem to understand that the contents are different to the dirt cheap Shadowspear Infiltrators that are still floating around having been partsed out.

those are full msrp new in box retail prices not eBay prices! No one cares about that. It’s either they need the figures or they sell them on eBay to make their money back.

Infiltrators are 35$ on eBay not 60... I’m paying 168$ with tax at 20% discount for this set and selling the infiltrators for 35 or less after the market is flooded with them then trying to scalp Ragnar for as much as I can so I don’t incur a loss ... this set is horribly priced

Using ebay prices to justify claims that a discounted box is over priced? Have we just hit peak cope?

drek marines!

Opinion discarded.

 Dysartes wrote:
In short - once we get past saves (and Invulnerable Saves, and Feel No Pain rules), why should a character be more resilient in this way than any other unit in the game/setting?

Because he's the prophet of Gork and Mork?
Because worlds burn in his boot prints?

Because he's the toughest of a species of tough MFs?

Togusa wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
So, I saw the data card for Gaz. What does everyone think about that brand new ability with his wounds? Seems pretty nice to me, something I wish the Swarmlord had...

Gw doing silly patchup's to broken core resulting in ghaz being immune to one shot by volcano cannon while warlord titan isn't.

Bloat and ducttape for bloatgod

I actually like the rule for characters that have more than 12 wounds. Volcano Cannons are made TO kill Warlord titans. It makes perfect sense to me.

servania wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Ok, so instead of a Volcano Cannon, let's use a QFB Coldstar. A single QFB Coldstar can wipe out a Knight or Baneblade in a single salvo, but somehow Ghaz can walk away practicably unscratched?

Ghaz is LITERALLY a prophet of gods. He has Gork and Mork for shrugging off the FB shots

bingo

gungo wrote:

JSG wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ragnar would easily be a $40 kit by himself, same as Shadowsun and the various Chapter heroes were.
Ghaz would easily be a $60 kit.

That's $100 right there. $30 for Nobz, $63 for Meganobz, $60 for the Infiltrator/Incursor kit.
Puts you at $253 in content for $185--savings of $68(probably would be more if Meganobz weren't in there to be honest).

Frankly, Ork players will be the ones getting shafted in terms of "making their money back"(which, IMO, is a terrible way to look at these kinds of things as it makes it sound like you expect to make back the whole amount rather than what you didn't want) since Ragnar's a $40 piece and Infiltrator/Incursor kit is $60 and people still don't seem to understand that the contents are different to the dirt cheap Shadowspear Infiltrators that are still floating around having been partsed out.

those are full msrp new in box retail prices not eBay prices! No one cares about that. It’s either they need the figures or they sell them on eBay to make their money back.

Infiltrators are 35$ on eBay not 60... I’m paying 168$ with tax at 20% discount for this set and selling the infiltrators for 35 or less after the market is flooded with them then trying to scalp Ragnar for as much as I can so I don’t incur a loss ... this set is horribly priced

Using ebay prices to justify claims that a discounted box is over priced? Have we just hit peak cope?

The point is this boxset is a horrid deal for orks who have no intention of playing drek marines! Even if I go discounted box set online I’m still paying 168$ plus tax maybe shipping then shifting infiltrators nobody Really needs at $35 (if prices don’t plummet) all for the glory to get ghaz and maybe some orks I really don’t need for $133 minus whatever I can scalp Ragnar for... thats a horrid deal no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

This looks like abad deal for pretty much everyone then. Me, a painter, who wants Ghaz, would quite like Ragnar, and is willing to take some extra stuff if it's at a discount, is looking at this box as an easy (but slightly annoyed) pass. I like marines, but I don't like those ones. They barely even look like marines, and I already have some that I don;t really want from the last marine box set I got. I'm assuming there are many people in this boat, ie people that don't want any more of those stealth marine, or marine analogues, or whatever they are. But then I also have to buy a load of Orks too. Maybe one unit of orks I could live with, but I'm displeased that it goes beyond that. This box is about as appealing as BotPhoenix. We're people defending that? I can't remember, I had just started buying stuff again and wasn't much interested in Eldar/DE. There seem to be a decent number of people trying to justify this box, for whatever reason. The fact that it's likely cheaper than BotP is really the only saving grace here, and that's still not enough really, considering how bad the reception for BotP was.

£105 is decent, I might get 2 boxes

4 wounds max for per phase exists because they wanted their model to not be completely useless. Without it, Ghaz is a paperweight and is trash tier.

Any complaints over this rule should point to the stupidity of character protection, and how characters over 9 wounds typically is a death sentence.

tulun wrote:
4 wounds max for per phase exists because they wanted their model to not be completely useless. Without it, Ghaz is a paperweight and is trash tier.

Any complaints over this rule should point to the stupidity of character protection, and how characters over 9 wounds typically is a death sentence.

it is a useful bandaid over the gigantic arterial bleed that is 8th edition's general mortality rate.

40k just isn't fun when armies can be tabled extremely easily in 3 turns by an optimized list.

JWBS wrote:
This looks like abad deal for pretty much everyone then. Me, a painter, who wants Ghaz, would quite like Ragnar, and is willing to take some extra stuff if it's at a discount, is looking at this box as an easy (but slightly annoyed) pass. I like marines, but I don't like those ones. They barely even look like marines, and I already have some that I don;t really want from the last marine box set I got. I'm assuming there are many people in this boat, ie people that don't want any more of those stealth marine, or marine analogues, or whatever they are. But then I also have to buy a load of Orks too. Maybe one unit of orks I could live with, but I'm displeased that it goes beyond that. This box is about as appealing as BotPhoenix. We're people defending that? I can't remember, I had just started buying stuff again and wasn't much interested in Eldar/DE. There seem to be a decent number of people trying to justify this box, for whatever reason. The fact that it's likely cheaper than BotP is really the only saving grace here, and that's still not enough really, considering how bad the reception for BotP was.

*shrug* you want just ghaz, you buy just ghaz.

It's like people are thinking this is only way ever you can get it.

Sheesh. So because some people think this is only way ever to get ghaz everybody else should be FORCED to buy models at higher price? Gee. Thanks. You are sooooooo compassionate. Sooooo considerate at other than yourself.