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I'm curious which option fits Kasrkin fluff-wise. I've got a good amount of Kasrkin (17(?) metal, 10 Kitbash, and 32 yet to Kitbash still), and while I'll likely be doing Iotan Dragons for most games, I wonder if anything would fit better for narrative games.

Arcanis161 wrote:
I'm curious which option fits Kasrkin fluff-wise. I've got a good amount of Kasrkin (17(?) metal, 10 Kitbash, and 32 yet to Kitbash still), and while I'll likely be doing Iotan Dragons for most games, I wonder if anything would fit better for narrative games.

Interesting question. Kasrkin were represented in the 3.5 codex by the Grenadiers doctrine, which allowed you to take stormtroopers as troops. The only difference were that they couldn't deepstrike or infiltrate. So, I thought to go through the new regiments and discount anything that would be attached to being drop troops. First to go were the Gorgonnes, who have a drop themed stratagem. The Jackals' redeployment warlord trait seemed a bit like infiltration, so I discounted that too.

That leaves us with four. Next I remembered that Kasrkin pre-date the volley gun, so can get rid of the Kappic Eagles. Their ability to use heavy would be pointless.

Then we consider the fact that Kasrkin were not even armed with hot-shot lasguns. They had Hellguns, which were AP5 lasguns, having less AP than the later versions with AP3. So we can't have the Lambdan Lions, their increased AP would be inappropriate.

So we have the Thetoid eagles or the Iotan Dragons. And then I see something that would have made this entire process pointless: hellguns were 24" weapons. So the Dragons are the right answer. I couldn't have seen that first could I? Their stratagem "drilled to perfection" sounds very Cadian, especially as the Kasrkin were supposed to have some of the most rigorous training in the Imperium. The precision targetting warlord trait is similar to the old sharpshooter doctrine that Cadians had in 3.5, and the relic is a Plasma pistol. Not much to say about that really.

So there you go. Iotan Dragons (or dragoons as I keep calling them).

As an aside, why on earth are there two regiments called Eagles? Makes it really hard to just refer to them by their last names.

Edit: I also just noticed you said Dragons for most games. I guess thats good that it matches the fluff!

Naming two of the Regiments Eagles was unexcusable. They seriously couldn't come up with another name?

Fisheyes wrote:
Naming two of the Regiments Eagles was unexcusable. They seriously couldn't come up with another name?

To further complicate things, two are Eagles and two are Iotan — I suppose we'll have to refer to them either by the regiment number or their full name lol. These were all taken from the old Militarum Tempestus codex though, so they totally could have picked out two other unique regiments listed in that book — but it's a small complaint for an otherwise-awesome and unexpected Stormtrooper supplement.

Fisheyes wrote:
Naming two of the Regiments Eagles was unexcusable. They seriously couldn't come up with another name?

These were regiments that we’re originally in the Scion codex. They didn’t pull them out of nowhere. There are multiple Eagles, Gorgonnes, Dragons, Lions, etc.
Militarum Tempestus regiment naming convention follows the guidelines of Mythological creature, predator, bird of prey, and sometimes mixtures of both.

 Apple Peel wrote:

Fisheyes wrote:
Naming two of the Regiments Eagles was unexcusable. They seriously couldn't come up with another name?

These were regiments that we’re originally in the Scion codex. They didn’t pull them out of nowhere. There are multiple Eagles, Gorgonnes, Dragons, Lions, etc.
Militarum Tempestus regiment naming convention follows the guidelines of Mythological creature, predator, bird of pray, and sometimes mixtures of both.

Mine follow the naming conventions but are homebrew so I can jump between traits: The Falconfall 56th.

Theyre also entirely kitbashed from Skitarii, Marine Scouts and some Necron stuff. Cost me a fortune to assemble but I like them.

What are the Gauss Blasters supposed to be? Otherwise fantastic work. Very cohesive and looks great.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What are the Gauss Blasters supposed to be? Otherwise fantastic work. Very cohesive and looks great.

Plasma/volley guns depending on what rules GW decides to write for them.

Cheers for the compliments.

Tsctically, I always liked the idea of a firebase supported by drop infantry and vice versa. So I kitbashed some armigers to provide the big guns. In my head they're airborne armour. I call them 'Bridgehead Heavy Cavalry'.

Not a bad Armiger stand-in. Most would not bat an eye.

Wish I liked the Armiger models more.

Does anyone have Vigulus handy? Curious what synergies exist between it and PA

So what are people's thoughts on Jackals vs Dragoons? They seem like the two stand-out doctrines for what are, effectively glass cannon units.

The only thing about the morale thing is it won't work against fearless stuff. The extra AP trait, I've discounted already as i think Tempestus already have enough AP. Is the extra 6 inch range the one with the most utilty?

Hey all!

I heard the Militarum Tempestus got some love recently and am looking to paint up some Psian Jackals (best color scheme imo).

Now, I am a WYSIWYG player.
The one thing that stopped me from playing the army before was the heavy reliance on Plasma Gunners and the lack of options to build Scions with Plasma Guns other than the pointing hand option.

Are there any different/new options without having to do too much converting?

Just really not a fan of having multiple squads but all of them having 2 guys with the same pose for Plasmas,,,

Banville wrote:So what are people's thoughts on Jackals vs Dragoons? They seem like the two stand-out doctrines for what are, effectively glass cannon units.

The only thing about the morale thing is it won't work against fearless stuff. The extra AP trait, I've discounted already as i think Tempestus already have enough AP. Is the extra 6 inch range the one with the most utilty?

If you want to run Jackals effectively, you do need to build around morale. Up further in the thread is a good explanation of lots of ways to get negative morale mods. I’d probably recommend using ranged Taurox Prime load out for Jackals as well so one could safely plink from afar.
For Dragons—overall best utility. Almost as much damage with TDF as the Stormtroopers doctrine, better use of hot-shot lasguns, safe deepstrike against Auspex and can still work plasma against Infiltrators.

As Foretold wrote:Hey all!

I heard the Militarum Tempestus got some love recently and am looking to paint up some Psian Jackals (best color scheme imo).

Now, I am a WYSIWYG player.
The one thing that stopped me from playing the army before was the heavy reliance on Plasma Gunners and the lack of options to build Scions with Plasma Guns other than the pointing hand option.

Are there any different/new options without having to do too much converting?

Just really not a fan of having multiple squads but all of them having 2 guys with the same pose for Plasmas,,,

Just buy the Space Marine plasma gun set. 5 plasmas that just need a little converting.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can also use all the arms from the medic arm or the flag bearer, maybe.

As Foretold wrote:
Hey all!

I heard the Militarum Tempestus got some love recently and am looking to paint up some Psian Jackals (best color scheme imo).

Now, I am a WYSIWYG player.
The one thing that stopped me from playing the army before was the heavy reliance on Plasma Gunners and the lack of options to build Scions with Plasma Guns other than the pointing hand option.

Are there any different/new options without having to do too much converting?

Just really not a fan of having multiple squads but all of them having 2 guys with the same pose for Plasmas,,,

Unfortunately the Jackals were not given any rules to improve other weapons, so plasma is still king. The Kappic Eagles and the Thetoid Eagles got stuff to improve volley guns, and the Iotan Gorgonnes can drop 5" away, which improves melta.

How much conversion is too much for you? I had exactly the same problem with the stupid scion plasma guns. However, I found a simple conversion. Basically you get some of the metal (resin now?) plasma guns and replace normal hotshots with them. If you keep the trigger mechanism from the hotshot arms it works pretty well.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm liking the idea of a small detachment of Scions to cause some backfield mischief for my Guard army. Something like Tempestor and two 10 man squads, with 4plasma and 4 melta. Thinking of the Dragons for the extra range, as well as giving the relic pistol to a squad for 11 plasma shots on the drop total. Gorgonnes are also a possibility, for that sweet 5" melta drop and extra shots.

I know melta gets a bad rep but it's a model thing really. Getting plasma Kasrkin these days is expensive, so you work with what you have.

As Foretold wrote:
Hey all!

I heard the Militarum Tempestus got some love recently and am looking to paint up some Psian Jackals (best color scheme imo).

Now, I am a WYSIWYG player.
The one thing that stopped me from playing the army before was the heavy reliance on Plasma Gunners and the lack of options to build Scions with Plasma Guns other than the pointing hand option.

Are there any different/new options without having to do too much converting?

Just really not a fan of having multiple squads but all of them having 2 guys with the same pose for Plasmas,,,

I was also trying to match the classic Kasrkin models and I found the Forge World Hostile Environment Troopers to be a good match. You'll need Cadian bits fo finish them. The backpacks are wrong, but the uniforms, boots, belts, gloves, and especially the helmets and masks are pretty much right on. I added armor to their gloves and knees with green stuff and styrene card, but you could skip that and still pull it off.

Well, these rules are interesting. I think the Dragons are the clear winners here. I would set up my army like this:

-Multiple Battalions (maybe 2, maybe 3 with maxed-size squads)

-MT Squads with no special weapons, 10-man as troops

-MT Command Squads with 4x Plasma Guns

-Warlord with the ignore cover warlord trait

-Someone with Laurels of Command

-Secondary warlord with the Vigilus Drop Force Warlord trait

-Half the army mounted up in Valkyries, half the army in deep strike

The gist of the strategy would be to drop out in clusters to pinpoint specific targets and take them out, while making yourself obnoxious with 10-man squads throwing out 4+ overwatch with the Dragons' stratagem. The main command would be First Rank/Second Rank on the 10-man squads to clear out infantry and MEQ, or Take Aim on a command squad to get them to not get hot on an overcharge.

Biggest Achilles heel of the list competitively would be flyers for sure, especially eldar flyers which plasma is allergic to. Best matchup would be MEQ - a 10-man Dragons squad with FRFSRF and the +1S strat is what, an 80 point unit that deals 9 wounds to MEQ?

BLESSED BOLTGUN
9th Iotan Gorgonnes model equipped with a boltgun only. This Relic replaces a boltgun and has the following profile:

So does this mean Tempestor Primes can have regular Boltguns now? Because they could not before (and the kit does not come with any!).

Overall some really nice stuff, with lots of combinations that look very interesting. Really wish I'd planed to have more scions in my guard army - many GW really knows how to get me to want to buy more stuff!

 Kcalehc wrote:

BLESSED BOLTGUN
9th Iotan Gorgonnes model equipped with a boltgun only. This Relic replaces a boltgun and has the following profile:

So does this mean Tempestor Primes can have regular Boltguns now? Because they could not before (and the kit does not come with any!).

Overall some really nice stuff, with lots of combinations that look very interesting. Really wish I'd planed to have more scions in my guard army - many GW really knows how to get me to want to buy more stuff!

From my understanding, noone can use it. Only Commissars get boltguns, but they can't be Gorgonnes.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kcalehc wrote:

BLESSED BOLTGUN
9th Iotan Gorgonnes model equipped with a boltgun only. This Relic replaces a boltgun and has the following profile:

So does this mean Tempestor Primes can have regular Boltguns now? Because they could not before (and the kit does not come with any!).

Overall some really nice stuff, with lots of combinations that look very interesting. Really wish I'd planed to have more scions in my guard army - man GW really knows how to get me to want to buy more stuff!

From my understanding, noone can use it. Only Commissars get boltguns, but they can't be Gorgonnes.

That's what I thought, hopefully the book does not leave this as an oversight, and have an item that no one can use.

Quite like the Gorgonnes traits and such myself, not sure about them or the Jackals for my own guys.

i am liking a lot the Lambdan Lions in the MEQ meta, the bonus Ap is good, the relic is useful with a los of -2AP bolters arround, and the WT is very good for plasma spaming. Also the extra AP let us overpass the new tendency of ignoring -1AP & -2AP

Babar_babar wrote:
i am liking a lot the Lambdan Lions in the MEQ meta, the bonus Ap is good, the relic is useful with a los of -2AP bolters arround, and the WT is very good for plasma spaming. Also the extra AP let us overpass the new tendency of ignoring -1AP & -2AP

Certainly my sisters are terrified of facing those buggers. S3 -3 is just what you need to spam to deal with VH. Only so many you can fit under 4++ bubble...

If you're doing a bunch of Valks, Lions or the Eagles getting a bonus to their BS are the best ones. Using Taurox, Jackals are the best one (merely because of the Warlord trait alone). TAC would be Dragons. Seems I have that right maybe?

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kcalehc wrote:

BLESSED BOLTGUN
9th Iotan Gorgonnes model equipped with a boltgun only. This Relic replaces a boltgun and has the following profile:

So does this mean Tempestor Primes can have regular Boltguns now? Because they could not before (and the kit does not come with any!).

Overall some really nice stuff, with lots of combinations that look very interesting. Really wish I'd planed to have more scions in my guard army - many GW really knows how to get me to want to buy more stuff!

From my understanding, noone can use it. Only Commissars get boltguns, but they can't be Gorgonnes.

RAW, you'd be correct.

I want to say they meant for a Commissar/Lord Commissar in a Gorgonnes detachment to be able to take the Blessed Boltgun, and worded the relic wrong because they forgot Commissars don't gain the regiment keyword...

But ... it would be odd as the only regimental relic intended for a non-Tempestus unit, so they also could have totally goofed and thought Tempestor Prime's could take boltguns like Company Commanders... kinda silly that they can't, but that's beside the point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Babar_babar wrote:
i am liking a lot the Lambdan Lions in the MEQ meta, the bonus Ap is good, the relic is useful with a los of -2AP bolters arround, and the WT is very good for plasma spaming. Also the extra AP let us overpass the new tendency of ignoring -1AP & -2AP

Their strategem is also good for scion squads with high shot-counts. A 10-man squad with 36 shots from FRSRF is averaging 4-5 mortal wounds for 1CP.

Point Blank Efficacy is also only 1CP and boosts Lambdan Lasguns/Volleyguns to S4/S5 | AP-3, still only 1 damage — but at BS3+, that's a profile usually reserved for Primaris troops.

Maybe it was meant to replace a Bolt Pistol? With the range it would make sense.

So something I realized, and correct me if I’m wrong, is there’s nothing that stops scions from deploying in another detachments Chimera’s. The transport rule for chimeras only references Astra Militarum infantry models. I think this makes Kapic Eagles a lot more interesting as chimeras are a much more reasonable price for what they bring compared to Taurox primes and valkyries.

Right now I’m looking at a list that brings 3 10 man squads, one in a valk, one in a prime, and one in a chimera. A prime can sit in the chimera and issue orders 24inches out and the valk squad can drop turn one and use tactical misdirection to give the entire army a -1 to hit. You can bring two astropaths in the Valkyrie and give the distraction squad psychic barrier and night shroud. If the distraction squad is in cover they can have a 1+ save and -1 to hit making them tough enough the enemy will waste most of their time one shooting.

Comissar Croc wrote:
So something I realized, and correct me if I’m wrong, is there’s nothing that stops scions from deploying in another detachments Chimera’s. The transport rule for chimeras only references Astra Militarum infantry models. I think this makes Kapic Eagles a lot more interesting as chimeras are a much more reasonable price for what they bring compared to Taurox primes and valkyries.

Right now I’m looking at a list that brings 3 10 man squads, one in a valk, one in a prime, and one in a chimera. A prime can sit in the chimera and issue orders 24inches out and the valk squad can drop turn one and use tactical misdirection to give the entire army a -1 to hit. You can bring two astropaths in the Valkyrie and give the distraction squad psychic barrier and night shroud. If the distraction squad is in cover they can have a 1+ save and -1 to hit making them tough enough the enemy will waste most of their time one shooting.

They're good, only requirement is [Astra militarum infantry]

I tA lot of marine players are going to buy and bring more infilitrators after about their third loss to gorgonnes.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
I tA lot of marine players are going to buy and bring more infilitrators after about their third loss to gorgonnes.

Then they switch to Iotan Dragons, or shoot with Psian Jakals at range.

Alright, so I figured out my prototype for an almost pure list. For gaks and giggles I added Assassins until I can figure out how to best tackle doing anti-tank. 'ere we go:

Battalion: Dragons
x1 Prime w/ Chainsword and Rod, Warlord - ???
x1 Prime w/ Chainsword and Rod
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Bolt Pistol
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Bolt Pistol
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Bolt Pistol
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Bolt Pistol
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Bolt Pistol
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Bolt Pistol

Battalion: Jackals
x1 Prime w/ Chainsword and Rod, Progeny of Conflict for Skilled Trackers
x1 Lord Commissar w/ Power Sword, Bolt Pistol
x1 Inquisitor w/ Inquisitorial Mandate for Esoteric Lore, Blackshroud
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol
x10 Scions w/ 4 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol
x3 Taurox Prime w/ Battle Cannon, Autocannons, Storm Bolter

Vanguard: Assasinorium
x1 Vindicare
x1 Callidus
x1 Eversor
x1 Culexus

I mean, the list is pretty straight forward when you think about it. Taurox w/ Scions, Commissar, Inquisitor, Vindicare, and Eversor will start on the table deployed as necessary, mostly for survival going second. The reason I'm so much for Jackals is because, as we all know, the original Scion tactic was garbage, so it might as well not have existed. Jackals getting the bonus (along with the Culexus) is a bonus, and redeployment is SUPER powerful, almost broken. There should be enough shots at that point to cover hordes that might exist, and then the Dragons will slowly drop down to start hitting the fething crap out of everything (that 6" to the Hotshot is a game changer). The main weakness would be a vehicle skew list, but I'm not exactly worried about Knights to be honest, nor am I worried even about Raven Guard or Iron Hands overall. I had considered switching the Assassins to something allied in for anti-tank and anti-monster. One way to do it is ally in 3 Space Marine Hunters and something to babysit them. That would be one of the few times to EVER consider Salamanders (the reroll wound is good on those, and one of two units that are worth bothering with for Master Artisans) and then maybe remove the Inquisitor for a Salaslamder Captain with those leftover points. Hadn't gone that far into the thinking process so far, I'd still try to keep the Culexus though as that's just a way to really annoy bad opponents.

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, these rules are interesting. I think the Dragons are the clear winners here. I would set up my army like this:

-Multiple Battalions (maybe 2, maybe 3 with maxed-size squads)

-MT Squads with no special weapons, 10-man as troops

-MT Command Squads with 4x Plasma Guns

-Warlord with the ignore cover warlord trait

-Someone with Laurels of Command

-Secondary warlord with the Vigilus Drop Force Warlord trait

-Half the army mounted up in Valkyries, half the army in deep strike

The gist of the strategy would be to drop out in clusters to pinpoint specific targets and take them out, while making yourself obnoxious with 10-man squads throwing out 4+ overwatch with the Dragons' stratagem. The main command would be First Rank/Second Rank on the 10-man squads to clear out infantry and MEQ, or Take Aim on a command squad to get them to not get hot on an overcharge.

Biggest Achilles heel of the list competitively would be flyers for sure, especially eldar flyers which plasma is allergic to. Best matchup would be MEQ - a 10-man Dragons squad with FRFSRF and the +1S strat is what, an 80 point unit that deals 9 wounds to MEQ?

It's worth noting and being prepared for the fact that you won't be able to use the Drop Force detachment if you chose one of the new regiments. Like how you can't use the Imperial Fists one even if you are a successor Chapter.