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General Hobbs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if that's really the case there's no reason to not go Dragons.

Until the FAQ clears things up.

There is a solid enough way to twist the RAW to support both sides of the argument. It is a waste of time though. The sort of thing that leads to those 20 page YMDC thread between 2 people.

It will most surely be FAQed, unless no one emailed them about it I guess.

That would being up the point of the one Regiment that gets their version of exploding 6 to hit and whether or not you get two total or the actual replacement happening.

If you do get the benefit of both stormtroopers and the rgeimental doctrines there's a real argument for the exploding 6's regiments. Since under Stormtroopers your generating additional shots, not additional hits those additional shots can also generate additional hits.

In short a scion with a plasma gun in rapid fire range gets 2 shots, assuming you roll 2 6's to hit, you then generate 2 additional shots and 2 additional hits, giving you 4 hits and 2 additional shots to take. Assuming you roll another 2 6's you then generate another 2 additional hits for 8 hits total.

If you don't get the benefit of stormtroopers I'm gonna guess the go to regiments will be eagles, lions or dragons depending on how many scions you take, how many transports etc and how much a point of extra ap will matter in your local meta.

 Trickstick wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if that's really the case there's no reason to not go Dragons.

Until the FAQ clears things up.

There is a solid enough way to twist the RAW to support both sides of the argument. It is a waste of time though. The sort of thing that leads to those 20 page YMDC thread between 2 people.

It will most surely be FAQed, unless no one emailed them about it I guess.

I was firmly in the in one regiment camp but after getting a good look at the book.....its pretty vague. Like why would they include the tag for stormtroopers (but not the actual rule for some reason) in the list if you couldn't choose it? Additionally its set up in a completely different format than the other regiments (i.e. no picture, etc) so really who knows until we get an FAQ

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if that's really the case there's no reason to not go Dragons.

Until the FAQ clears things up.

There is a solid enough way to twist the RAW to support both sides of the argument. It is a waste of time though. The sort of thing that leads to those 20 page YMDC thread between 2 people.

It will most surely be FAQed, unless no one emailed them about it I guess.

I was firmly in the in one regiment camp but after getting a good look at the book.....its pretty vague. Like why would they include the tag for stormtroopers (but not the actual rule for some reason) in the list if you couldn't choose it? Additionally its set up in a completely different format than the other regiments (i.e. no picture, etc) so really who knows until we get an FAQ

It’s an oddity certainly. You would figure you only get one, but with how you gain a Tempestus Regiment, and how it says that Tempestus Regiment can only be replaced by one of the new doctrines, and how currently getting both is the only way to take a Tempestus Drop Force based on this info, it is quite shaky.

 Apple Peel wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if that's really the case there's no reason to not go Dragons.

Until the FAQ clears things up.

There is a solid enough way to twist the RAW to support both sides of the argument. It is a waste of time though. The sort of thing that leads to those 20 page YMDC thread between 2 people.

It will most surely be FAQed, unless no one emailed them about it I guess.

I was firmly in the in one regiment camp but after getting a good look at the book.....its pretty vague. Like why would they include the tag for stormtroopers (but not the actual rule for some reason) in the list if you couldn't choose it? Additionally its set up in a completely different format than the other regiments (i.e. no picture, etc) so really who knows until we get an FAQ

It’s an oddity certainly. You would figure you only get one, but with how you gain a Tempestus Regiment, and how it says that Tempestus Regiment can only be replaced by one of the new doctrines, and how currently getting both is the only way to take a Tempestus Drop Force based on this info, it is quite shaky.

I COMPLETELY forgot about the drop force! I knew that a lot of those detachments are kind of abandoned at this point but it makes it interesting that they would make a new option that completely invalidates the old rule without at least referencing it (like they did with Veterans and the Siege stuff in Vigilus)

Quick question: is our possible to include heavy or fast attack units in a Tempestus detachment? Battlescribe says no, but I can't find the rule. I want to take cyclops demo vehicles and Tauros buggies.

If you include any units in a detachment that are not Militarum Tempestus, or the units listed under the "Advisors and Auxilla" rule, then you give up your Tempestus doctrine. So you can do it, but it isn't recommended.

Battlescribe locks the units out when you select a MT doctine, it asumes that you would want to keep it

 Trickstick wrote:
If you include any units in a detachment that are not Militarum Tempestus, or the units listed under the "Advisors and Auxilla" rule, then you give up your Tempestus doctrine. So you can do it, but it isn't recommended.

Battlescribe locks the units out when you select a MT doctine, it asumes that you would want to keep it

Seems like you're implying that Scions basically work like Flash Gitz being Free Bootaz vs being brought in some other Orks detachment.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Quick question: is our possible to include heavy or fast attack units in a Tempestus detachment? Battlescribe says no, but I can't find the rule. I want to take cyclops demo vehicles and Tauros buggies.

No, the closest you can get is to put all your non-MT stuff in a separate detachment with storm trooper doctrine as a custom regiment, i.e.

Storm trooper outrider detachment
Primaris Psyker
Tauros
Tauros
Scout Sentinel

Q: Are the Militarum Tempestus Regimental Doctrines taken in addition to the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine listed in Codex: Astra Militarum, or instead of it?

A: They are taken instead of the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine in Codex: Astra Militarum. Note, if you wish to continue using your Militarum Tempestus Detachments as you currently have been, you can simply select the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine from page 65 in Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good.

Gnollu wrote:
Q: Are the Militarum Tempestus Regimental Doctrines taken in addition to the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine listed in Codex: Astra Militarum, or instead of it?

A: They are taken instead of the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine in Codex: Astra Militarum. Note, if you wish to continue using your Militarum Tempestus Detachments as you currently have been, you can simply select the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine from page 65 in Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good.

Not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that they didnt address the new regiments being locked out of using Drop Force.

Also, it's a Blessed Bolt Pistol now. Even got pistol 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sterling191 wrote:
Not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that they didnt address the new regiments being locked out of using Drop Force.

They did address it. It says you can't in the quote provided.

 Trickstick wrote:

They did address it. It says you can't in the quote provided.

You completely missed the point.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

They did address it. It says you can't in the quote provided.

You completely missed the point.

Sorry but your wording was a bit confusing. They did address the ambiguity that there was, not the underlying fact that you can't combine them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I love how the Guard got like 4 entries in the FAQ, and everything else is Tau. I guess Guard were better written.

So now can we get back to discussing tactics? It is really repulsing to enter this thread only to see 2 pages of arguing about GW rules wording...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How many valkyries one should bring for dragoons? Is one for meltagun enough? I cannot see use for the second one

Gnollu wrote:
Q: Are the Militarum Tempestus Regimental Doctrines taken in addition to the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine listed in Codex: Astra Militarum, or instead of it?

A: They are taken instead of the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine in Codex: Astra Militarum. Note, if you wish to continue using your Militarum Tempestus Detachments as you currently have been, you can simply select the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine from page 65 in Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good.

That was obviously~~~~~~

I said it from start the discussion

 Trickstick wrote:

Sorry but your wording was a bit confusing. They did address the ambiguity that there was, not the underlying fact that you can't combine them.

S'all good. The degree of lingering issues from this FAQ (for both Tau and Scions) is just really irking me today.

Gnollu wrote:
So now can we get back to discussing tactics? It is really repulsing to enter this thread only to see 2 pages of arguing about GW rules wording...

When the wording of rules fundamentally alters how the army plays, then said wording is a completely legitimate topic of discussion.

The wording of the rules is kind of important to deciding on tactics. I do agree that things get a bit stupid, people need to be more ready to just agree to disagree.

I'm not sure that meltas are really worth bringing a valk for. The 6" melta bonus is not worth the points, in my eyes. I would rather just have more squads to drop.

MrDot wrote:

That was obviously~~~~~~

I said it from start the discussion

Congratulations, you picked an interpretation that was borne out by an FAQ, yet was entirely unsupported by the original rules. It happens all the fething time.

Sterling191 wrote:

Gnollu wrote:
Q: Are the Militarum Tempestus Regimental Doctrines taken in addition to the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine listed in Codex: Astra Militarum, or instead of it?

A: They are taken instead of the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine in Codex: Astra Militarum. Note, if you wish to continue using your Militarum Tempestus Detachments as you currently have been, you can simply select the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine from page 65 in Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good.

Not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that they didnt address the new regiments being locked out of using Drop Force.

How are they locked out of using Drop Force?

You pick Storm Troopers Doctrine, then you can use it, as per the earlier FAQ. No where does it say you have to use the Doctrine associated with your regiment.

 Kcalehc wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Gnollu wrote:
Q: Are the Militarum Tempestus Regimental Doctrines taken in addition to the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine listed in Codex: Astra Militarum, or instead of it?

A: They are taken instead of the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine in Codex: Astra Militarum. Note, if you wish to continue using your Militarum Tempestus Detachments as you currently have been, you can simply select the Storm Troopers Regimental Doctrine from page 65 in Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good.

Not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that they didnt address the new regiments being locked out of using Drop Force.

How are they locked out of using Drop Force?

You pick Storm Troopers Doctrine, then you can use it, as per the earlier FAQ. No where does it say you have to use the Doctrine associated with your regiment.

Agreed. I'm confused as well.

This FAQ question just addressed the issue of stacking the old doctrine with the newer ones. How are they locked out of Vigilus drop force?

 Dynas wrote:

This FAQ question just addressed the issue of stacking the old doctrine with the newer ones. How are they locked out of Vigilus drop force?

Vigilus FAQ defines a Militarum Tempestus detachment as requiring the Storm Troopers doctrine, and a Militarum Tempestus detachment is required to use the Drop Force. It cannot be used with any of the Tempestus Regiment doctrines.

It also represents GW breaking their own internal rules for what defines detachments, which is exceptionally stupid.

 Kcalehc wrote:
How are they locked out of using Drop Force?

You pick Storm Troopers Doctrine, then you can use it, as per the earlier FAQ. No where does it say you have to use the Doctrine associated with your regiment.

The point is that you can't have, say, Kappic Eagles doctrine in a Drop Force.

well, its a good thing the drop force reeeeally isn't all that good.

My current idea is to try to run lots of Kappic Eagles in a lot of Tauroxes and Valks with a little bit of airpower sprinkled in for good measure. I have a Thunderbolt and a Vulture that needs table time although im not sure which one would be better (my gut says a fully kitted thunderbolt could WRECK a vehicle but its unlikely to stick around too long for the absurd point cost)

 generalchaos34 wrote:
well, its a good thing the drop force reeeeally isn't all that good.

My current idea is to try to run lots of Kappic Eagles in a lot of Tauroxes and Valks with a little bit of airpower sprinkled in for good measure. I have a Thunderbolt and a Vulture that needs table time although im not sure which one would be better (my gut says a fully kitted thunderbolt could WRECK a vehicle but its unlikely to stick around too long for the absurd point cost)

I love the Punisher Vulture, but I just can't justify it for 205 points. I hope it goes down with the FW index.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
well, its a good thing the drop force reeeeally isn't all that good.

My current idea is to try to run lots of Kappic Eagles in a lot of Tauroxes and Valks with a little bit of airpower sprinkled in for good measure. I have a Thunderbolt and a Vulture that needs table time although im not sure which one would be better (my gut says a fully kitted thunderbolt could WRECK a vehicle but its unlikely to stick around too long for the absurd point cost)

Two Valkyries and a Vulture as a distraction carnifex might be interesting. People are inordinately frightened by 40 Punisher shots. Seriously, when I've played it, it's killed maybe 8 GEQ and two or three Marines per shooting phase. My opponents generally go, 'Is that it?' after I've rolled a bucket of ineffectual dice.

I've been theoryhammering a triple strike list that should keep your momentum going and the enemy on the defense. I like to call it Drop Force Hydra.

List:
Battalion (Iotan Dragons, Drop Force)
Tempestor Prime with Command Rod
Lord Commissar with Powerfist
2x Tempestus Scions (10 man)
Tempestus Scions (9 man)
Astropath
Wyrdvane Psykers (3 man)
2x Valkyries with Rocket Pods and Heavy Bolters

Battalion (Lambdan Lions, Drop Force)
Tempestor Prime with Command Rod
Primaris Psyker
2x Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma Guns (10 man)
Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma Guns (5 man)
Tempestus Command Squad with 4 Plasma Guns
2x Officer of the Fleet
Valkyrie with Rocket Pods and Heavy Bolters
3x Taurox Primes with Missile Launcher and Autocannons

Battalion (Kappic Eagles)
Tempestor Prime eith Command Rod
Aradia Madellan
2x Tempestus Scions with 4 Hotshot Volley Guns (10 man)
Tempestus Scions with 2 Hotshot Volley Guns (5 man)
Tempestus Scions Command Squad with 4 Hotshot Volley Guns

Tactics:
Use the Valkyries, Dragons, and Psykers to annihilate the enemy's screen turn 1 with first rank second rank fire and mortal wounds (use the strat to allow grav chute within 5" if a juicy target is available for grenadiers and charge to tie up their lines). Drop the Lions turn 2 to destroy the big enemy units with support from the Taurox Primes. The Plasma Guns Rerolling 1s, Rerolling wounds, and being AP4 should put a pretty nice dent in a couple things. Turn 3 your Taurox Primes should have moved up to be in a position to let out the Eagles and have them clean up stragglers and hold objectives.

If your opponent screens with tougher units swap out the Dragons with the Lions and drop the Dragons turn 2 to kill off their weaker units.

Banville wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
well, its a good thing the drop force reeeeally isn't all that good.

My current idea is to try to run lots of Kappic Eagles in a lot of Tauroxes and Valks with a little bit of airpower sprinkled in for good measure. I have a Thunderbolt and a Vulture that needs table time although im not sure which one would be better (my gut says a fully kitted thunderbolt could WRECK a vehicle but its unlikely to stick around too long for the absurd point cost)

Two Valkyries and a Vulture as a distraction carnifex might be interesting. People are inordinately frightened by 40 Punisher shots. Seriously, when I've played it, it's killed maybe 8 GEQ and two or three Marines per shooting phase. My opponents generally go, 'Is that it?' after I've rolled a bucket of ineffectual dice.

I also completely forgot that I have an Avenger Strike Fighter (long story!) I think both the Avenger and the Thunderbolt fully loaded can really throw the pain downhill but they clock in at 200 and 263. The avenger gives you an 8 shot St6 AP-2 gun, 2 lascannons, and 2 missile launchers and the Thunderbolt gives you 4 autcannons, 2 lascannons, and 4 hellstrike. Both of which can shore up the lack of long range firepower in Scions. I wish the Vendetta wasn't a steaming pile that would be pretty sweet to be able to run those again

Sounds like you really want an Officer of the Fleet in that army.

Anyone think the Blessed Bolt Pistol is worth taking? I know that relic pistols are pretty pointless, but 2 character sniping shot at 12", with damage 3 against psykers could be ok. Although you give up the command rod. Eh, it's still kind of pointless isn't it?