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Interested till I saw it was 35mm

I'm reminded that whilst I love the painting on the Infinity models, their models are tiny and very fine detailed. I'd honestly rank them pretty darn high in terms of the skill level you need to paint to achieve good results with them. Sometimes a simpler and more bold style that isn't as hyper fine detail is more practical to paint up and get looking good for the tabletop.


I'd be worried if its plastics unless PP can change from the one they used before. Considering many disliked those plastics heavily I can well expect that if PP is going the plastics pathway they are going with a different formula.


They might also have made the models with plastic in mind and yet still use metal/resin. So the first run turns into metal-resin and then later if it gets big they can shift effortlessly into plastics. They might even stage the KS so that if a threshold is reached they shift into plastics.

Hopefully they'll have a kickstarter option to do hard plastic.

Also hoping they live up to early rumors with how the jacks are supposed to be more configurable, which may mean more use out of the core kits.

 Vertrucio wrote:
35mm means cheap soft plastic, most likely the same as their awful battle boxes. If so, that means I'm out! The main reason to increase size is that the cheap stuff only works at larger scales.

The mushy or bulbous details on a bunch of their miniatures also indicates cheap plastic.

They haven't used PVC for their models for at least a couple years. Some of the initial grymkin infantry was the last time I recall seeing it. Since then, its been a really nice (but expensive) resin with metal bits for everything; including 30 mm infantry.

Cronch wrote:

As for the AoS/Killing off Warmahordes, I was under the impression that thing was almost dead anyway? As long as they don't pull an actual End Times and rub the existing player's faces into it, they might get away without rousing the angry grogs, and hopefully they can focus on marketing towards other groups of players, without, finally, the legacy of Page 5 cringe.

wizards of the coast lost a lawsuit vs event organizers so privateer press had to scuttle its press ganger program which was the main driving force to sales

it is a pretty great game though imo

My understanding is both Riot Quest and Warcaster are alternate realities branched from the Oblivion event. Riot Quest was stated as a reality where the Infernals won. Warcaster is supposed to be the far future of a universe where Cryiss intervened.

Man this game looks like what my playlest group wanted but instead got Hordes. Will note this...

This game solidly has my attention. Probably won't join the KS as I tend not to and woudl ather give money to the FLGS at release, but done right I could see me falling hard for this.

Hopefully PP casts these models in metal or hard plastic, their PVC are amongst the worst I have ever seen.

The miniatures look.....fine? They are decent but clearly borrow a lot from Infinity. Nice to see the Infantry don’t have shoulder pads as big as the models are.

The fluff is pretty bad.

Last time I played Warmachine/Hordes in 2nd the game was an awful mess, and everyone I have talked to says it’s worse now. I haven’t been to a gaming store that has stocked it in two years.

All things considered I wish for PP to make a decent game and have some success, but I feel they are on their last legs and this might just be their last gasp.

Is there any indcation of the kick off date?

So a worse version of infinity from the new "Old-GW" now that proper GW is nu-GW?

No thanks.

I have some interest. Will watch and see

According to fb it was confirmed that everything is metal/resin. That said, the models shown are not that detailed. PP can make nice stuff but the quality is all over the place and mostly poor.

I don't understand why anyone is comparing this to Infinity? It seems nothing like Infinity in neither gameplay nor aesthetic. If Warmachine basically ripped the giant-shoulderpad+small-feet aesthetic of Warcraft, this seems to basically be Starcraft-meets-Overwatch.

Immediate thoughts: Its a Kickstarter game, which means it will be dead on arrival just like The Other Side, All Quiet on the Martian Front, Wrath of Kings, Robotech RPG Tactics, Alien vs Predator, and countless other wargames that have launched by Kickstarter. The only real exceptions to the trend are A Song of Ice and Fire (which was DoA and then suddenly surged in popularity for reasons unknown), Dropfleet Commander (which was DoA but is slowly being resuscitated by new ownership), and Blood & Plunder (which is alive and healthy, but not particularly popular and has next to no presence in retail stores).

I'll still back it.

 Grimtuff wrote:
I was expecting "evolved" forms of the Warmachine armies, so we have Cygnar, in spirit, but now having expanded out beyond the stars, same goes for Khador (Khador is not a place! It's a people!) with them aggressively expanding heir new interplanetary empire with Karchev and Butcher both having been soul transferred as the Motherland will not let them die.

They told us explicitly that this was not going to be the case when they first announced the game about a year ago. They were pretty clear that its set 5000 years down the line in a time and place that is nowhere near Immoren, and that we shouldn't expect to see most of the Warmachine factions (I believe they referenced Cyriss as the only exception) in Space, nor should we expect to really see any of the Warmachine species/races or anything else for that matter.

Eh I don't think its as bad as AoS since PP isn't going to destroy the old game.

You don't know that. The Oblivion storyline seems pretty "end of the setting" to most of us. The fact that most of the Warmachine/Hordes future development looks to be based on the Riot Quest timeline rather than the prime timeline seems to imply an end of the world scenario. They've already killed a number of major characters in the ongoing Henge Hold Scroll fluff.

wizards of the coast lost a lawsuit vs event organizers

Except they didn't. The cases were thrown out.

 Irkjoe wrote:
According to fb it was confirmed that everything is metal/resin. That said, the models shown are not that detailed. PP can make nice stuff but the quality is all over the place and mostly poor.

Anything "with metal bits" means I'm out. It's 2020 FFS. Plastic/resin + metal mix should have stayed in the 1990s. PP needs to stop being so cheap and properly invest in the model range - they're Kickstarting the damn thing - just make the goal higher and make them proper plastic. Dozens of smaller, less established companies have managed to do so.

HIPS is pretty expensive and Privateer didn't do so hot with it when they tried years ago to move warmachines to it. They like to be able to cast things up as needed to they're not left with tons of stock. I'd love plastic over the metal resin mix but I think it doesn't work for their current size and customer base. If they would have moved during their hayday it would have been easier now but having to order a minimum of 1500-2000 of an individual sprue combined with months long waits to get things made and shipped from china they'd not only have to store all that but if it sold well they'd be in the same boat as CMoN and FFG where nothing is in stock and reprints rarely happen. Historicals can do it as they're a much wider audience and can sell more and pay to have more factory time.

chaos0xomega wrote:

You don't know that. The Oblivion storyline seems pretty "end of the setting" to most of us. The fact that most of the Warmachine/Hordes future development looks to be based on the Riot Quest timeline rather than the prime timeline seems to imply an end of the world scenario. They've already killed a number of major characters in the ongoing Henge Hold Scroll fluff.

I mean, besides the wave of Convergence of Cyriss stuff, and a year full of Hordes releases.... sure, ONLY Riot Quest haha.

And I mean, they really haven't killed off THAT many "major" characters in the Hengehold Scrolls fluff. And in all honesty, I am glad they finally got to the point where they took the plot armor gloves off and decided to go wild with the fluff.

With the game being able to be played in darn near any period of time in the modern Iron Kingdoms era (much like, say, the elephant in the room called Warhammer 40k), having a multitude of fresh new-blood warlocks and warcasters to play with seems far more interesting than them trying to make Sorscha0/1/2/3 and others play different while feeling the same.

 Absolutionis wrote:
I don't understand why anyone is comparing this to Infinity? It seems nothing like Infinity in neither gameplay nor aesthetic. If Warmachine basically ripped the giant-shoulderpad+small-feet aesthetic of Warcraft, this seems to basically be Starcraft-meets-Overwatch.

The shiny armor guys look pretty much exactly like some of the Infinity Panoceania knights to me. Except for the Warmachine scale vs Infinity scale guns, which changes the aesthetic from semi-serious to comical.

PP plastic is all garbage, the restic pvc whatever and the hard plastic. Their attempt at selling low quality chinese miniatures at a premium because a lot of their players just don't care about the hobby aspect. Their newer resin looks pretty sharp, so there's a glimmer of hope even though the miniatures shown so far are uninspiring.

I think the initial reaction here is a good indication of how this might go. Even on warmachine specific boards and communities, I've seen a similar reaction.

The models look fine, but generic. Imagine them all painted the same colour scheme. They look like they could be from the same faction.

Privateer Press's steady decline and issues that they've had since half way through MKII might also keep people who feel like they were burned from playing. I loved MKII when playing it as a skirmish level game. But the company really pushed to make it an army level game, which in my opinion didn't work.

I know it's regional, but I haven't seen warmachine played or even in stock at any game stores I've been to.

I think they're trying to play it safe... but if you combine that with a fanbase that's pretty gun shy because of past issues, I don't know how well it'd be... even though I'd love to play a game like warmachine again.

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:

I think they're trying to play it safe... but if you combine that with a fanbase that's pretty gun shy because of past issues, I don't know how well it'd be... even though I'd love to play a game like warmachine again.

Kickstarter is an interesting choice in this scenario. On the one hand, its safe, but on the other they might get an uncomfortable lesson in how much their community trusts them.

Of course, Kickstarter says to me that they don't have a lot of confidence in the project (or also just lack money).
I get KS for video game projects, rather than turn to the big publishers with bad contracts, but for launching their '40K...' it'll be interesting to watch. But from a financial and psychology standpoint, not a game standpoint.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
HIPS is pretty expensive and Privateer didn't do so hot with it when they tried years ago to move warmachines to it. They like to be able to cast things up as needed to they're not left with tons of stock. I'd love plastic over the metal resin mix but I think it doesn't work for their current size and customer base. If they would have moved during their hayday it would have been easier now but having to order a minimum of 1500-2000 of an individual sprue combined with months long waits to get things made and shipped from china they'd not only have to store all that but if it sold well they'd be in the same boat as CMoN and FFG where nothing is in stock and reprints rarely happen. Historicals can do it as they're a much wider audience and can sell more and pay to have more factory time.

If we're to be convinced PP is actually dedicating themselves to this game, then they may as well make their introductory or starter sets in HIPS especially when they expect 20-40 models per side. Wyrd does all their stuff in HIPS and variants for their mainline and side game.

PP already has a reputation of making awful quality PVC miniatures that, while low cost, are basically CMON-like in quality.

I'm a sucker for GW fluff and "arcanessence" still made me cringe a little. The short version of "arc" I like, but... Why not just call it "arcane essence" if it is going to be shortened anyways? Bit strange.

Fluff I was meh on until they got to the galaxy being Cyriss and Arc being her lifeblood. That is is a bit more interesting. Civilizations burning arc to secure the ability to harvest more of it? The idiocy is only exceeded by its realism, and I can appreciate the real-world commentary there.

Mini's are nice. Not totally my preferred style but definitely something I could like, and certainly something I could customize. Unfortunately...

 JoeRugby wrote:
Interested till I saw it was 35mm

Yeah. Quite frankly if I am going to invest in another miniature game I have hundreds and hundreds of 28mm models I would really prefer to be of matching scale for proxy/counts-as/conversion/crossover play. Yeah I know that means me buying less of the new game's miniatures, but right now my plan is the alternative of none at all.

I'm not sure why some of you are making a big deal of the 35mm scale- most Privateer models have been around that size for a while now. Just measured a good chunk of Riot Quest models, Morrowan, and Crucible guys and they're all clocking in at around the same scale.

Also keep in mind they haven't made anything in PVC for a few years now. It's like people still complaining about Mantic's restic models which haven't really been a thing for a while either.

I will agree with the metal bits being a dumb idea and would much prefer they just go all resin or metal instead.

Sad that it sounds like a lot of the previous races and places won't make the jump, as I think it'd be fun to see what they could do with all the various Minions races evolving into space faring peoples.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
HIPS is pretty expensive and Privateer didn't do so hot with it when they tried years ago to move warmachines to it. They like to be able to cast things up as needed to they're not left with tons of stock. I'd love plastic over the metal resin mix but I think it doesn't work for their current size and customer base. If they would have moved during their hayday it would have been easier now but having to order a minimum of 1500-2000 of an individual sprue combined with months long waits to get things made and shipped from china they'd not only have to store all that but if it sold well they'd be in the same boat as CMoN and FFG where nothing is in stock and reprints rarely happen. Historicals can do it as they're a much wider audience and can sell more and pay to have more factory time.

PP didn't try to move to HIPS they moved to gakky PVC … and then never improved the quality in the next 10 years of using it. They have a small handful of HIPS kits for most factions - and those are actually pretty nice.

Launching a new flagship game on Kickstarter in resin (and worse, resin with metal bits) basically is saying "hey we're making a new niche game that we don't expect to go anywhere." Crowdfunding it in proper plastic would draw a MUCH bigger audience and make a statement about how they, as a company, believe in the game and are willing to take a risk the right the ship. Instead they are doing the thing PP always seems to do - investing the bare minimum into the game and condemning it to mediocrity. Which is funny from a company that used to encourage people to play like they had a pair.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'm not sure why some of you are making a big deal of the 35mm scale- most Privateer models have been around that size for a while now.

'Around,' yes. Meaning a few are 35, some are 32 (like Cygnar sword knights), others are 28 (like Trenchers), and some scale all the way down to maybe 25 for the Black 13th Gun Mages, all of which are normal humans in the same faction.
Their inability to manage a consistent scale was far sadder than the leg issues on some of the beasts and jacks.

It is just a personal preference; I want to keep all my wargames at the 28mm scale to have some cross-compatibility. That is important to me personally, not an objective statement about the game's quality.

I like the store of the minis, and the slight scale difference doesn't matter to me.

However, a bit concerned about the fluff and game play - what little I've seen thus far...

I think their biggest mistake is not bringing over the old factions or at least races. Why make it the same universe at all if you’re not bringing over Cygnar, Khador, Cryx, etc. Seeing the Protectorate advance knowing that another goddess saved everyone and existing in her universe would be interesting.

It would also give current fans something to connect to in the new system. As someone said above, this feels like a last gasp from PP. They have been a sinking ship for a while now and there seems to be no move to correct the situation from the company.