Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
p5freak wrote: Its utterly ridiculous that GW says their facebook page cant give official rule answers, but post point values there.
What they actuall say is...
And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.
The Social Media team can't answer rules questions. The Game Designers can and has used Facebook to provide quick fixes such as the missing points in Ritual of the Damned and The Greater Good instead of waiting two (or more) weeks for a FAQ.
Then the game designers need their own Facebook page, or they have to remove the info that they can't give official ruke answers, because that's what they are doing. Points are rules.
No they do not need their own separate Facebook page. People just need to understand that the Social Media team doesn't just make up articles like this and stop making excuses to ignore it when an article is posted clarifying missing points etc.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
p5freak wrote: Its utterly ridiculous that GW says their facebook page cant give official rule answers, but post point values there.
What they actuall say is...
And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.
The Social Media team can't answer rules questions. The Game Designers can and has used Facebook to provide quick fixes such as the missing points in Ritual of the Damned and The Greater Good instead of waiting two (or more) weeks for a FAQ.
Then the game designers need their own Facebook page, or they have to remove the info that they can't give official ruke answers, because that's what they are doing. Points are rules.
No they do not need their own separate Facebook page. People just need to understand that the Social Media team doesn't just make up articles like this and stop making excuses to ignore it when an article is posted clarifying missing points etc.
At the same time, why should I have to track down a FB post to get points cost for a newly updated unit (or entirely new unit, in Lazarus's case) for a book I paid money for?
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
If they don't want to use the Facebook post then that's their choice. The FAQs are scheduled to come out two weeks after the book is published. Why shoud someone expect it to come out sooner?
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Ghaz wrote: If they don't want to use the Facebook post then that's their choice. The FAQs are scheduled to come out two weeks after the book is published. Why shoud someone expect it to come out sooner?
Why should someone expect the points cost for a new or updated unit to be in the book they bought?
...
Ghaz, I shouldn't have to answer that. You're not dumb. You should know the answer.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Ca is where new "balanced" points go
They couldn't pit points in here for the new char as they might have needed changes after printing, but they were publishing them after CA so that wouldn't make sense.
These were printed before finalisation of points in ca...
nosferatu1001 wrote: Ca is where new "balanced" points go
They couldn't pit points in here for the new char as they might have needed changes after printing, but they were publishing them after CA so that wouldn't make sense.
These were printed before finalisation of points in ca...
So then which is accurate? The CA points or the Facebook points?
And didn't the Eight have their points in PA?
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
tneva82 wrote: Facebook does provide official rules as they have done before and said so.
Citation needed.
I have not seen anything that states that Facebook is official rules for Warhammer 40K.
Or the opposite. So when a post is clearly meant to be taken as official, can we please just accept that?
No, because Facebook is not an official rules source...
They literally state "a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio."
So they, on the page, literally say that they are not official...
Im guessing rules posted on the WHC site and in White Dwarfs arent official either? Hell, the official rulebook isnt official either now that I think about it...
Only the FAQs are.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Lazarus's points werent in the book either but we knew he cost 105. When the FAQs came out he still cost 105.
Like come on man
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/24 09:08:50
123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
JNAProductions wrote: So then which is accurate? The CA points or the Facebook points?
The points in Chapter Approved would have been intended to apply to the original Shadowsun model, which had a comletely different weapon loadout. The points cost for the new model is either the value given on Facebook or null.
tneva82 wrote: Facebook does provide official rules as they have done before and said so.
Citation needed.
I have not seen anything that states that Facebook is official rules for Warhammer 40K.
Or the opposite. So when a post is clearly meant to be taken as official, can we please just accept that?
No, because Facebook is not an official rules source...
They literally state "a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio."
So they, on the page, literally say that they are not official...
Im guessing rules posted on the WHC site and in White Dwarfs arent official either? Hell, the official rulebook isnt official either now that I think about it...
Only the FAQs are.
Facebook is not at all comparable to White Dwarf.
They literally tell you on the Facebook page that they are not a rules source.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
tneva82 wrote: Facebook does provide official rules as they have done before and said so.
Citation needed.
I have not seen anything that states that Facebook is official rules for Warhammer 40K.
Or the opposite. So when a post is clearly meant to be taken as official, can we please just accept that?
No, because Facebook is not an official rules source...
They literally state "a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio."
So they, on the page, literally say that they are not official...
Im guessing rules posted on the WHC site and in White Dwarfs arent official either? Hell, the official rulebook isnt official either now that I think about it...
Only the FAQs are.
Facebook is not at all comparable to White Dwarf.
They literally tell you on the Facebook page that they are not a rules source.
It wasnt rules, it was points. Subtle but important difference.
It wasnt rules, it was points. Subtle but important difference.
Points are included under the scope of the rules.
You surely understand that right?
Or if they aren't, I can then pay whatever points I want for my Ork boys. 1 point each, don't mind if I do...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/24 16:23:54
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
tneva82 wrote: Facebook does provide official rules as they have done before and said so.
Citation needed.
I have not seen anything that states that Facebook is official rules for Warhammer 40K.
Or the opposite. So when a post is clearly meant to be taken as official, can we please just accept that?
No, because Facebook is not an official rules source...
They literally state "a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio."
So they, on the page, literally say that they are not official...
Im guessing rules posted on the WHC site and in White Dwarfs arent official either? Hell, the official rulebook isnt official either now that I think about it...
Only the FAQs are.
Facebook is not at all comparable to White Dwarf.
They literally tell you on the Facebook page that they are not a rules source.
It wasnt rules, it was points. Subtle but important difference.
I think it's a pretty hard stretch to say that the points cost for a unit isn't part of that unit's rules.
Is it reasonable to expect a player to check the printed rule books for rules? Yes.
Is it reasonable to expect a player to check the FAQs/Erratas site for rules? Yes.
Is it reasonable to expect a player to check a Facebook page that specifically says it does not provide rules... for rules? No.
This is the issue. Yes, we all know what the new points cost will be when it hits the appropriate Errata document. The intention is crystal clear. It's just a terrible, terrible way of communicating out that intention. Not everyone uses Facebook AND Facebook is a terrible platform for communicating out messages that are intended to persist for more than a fleeting moment on someone's feed. At a minimum, this should have been a Warhammer-Community article. "We dun goofed, but here's what you'll see in an upcoming Errata doc to get you playing today."
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Whether or not it's reasonable to expect people to check facebook, it's still the point cost of the unit. The alternative is that the cost is null, which is utterly absurd and it baffles me that anyone is entertaining that.
Also, the reach of the point cost is far further than the reach of the post. Many many people who play the game who dont even use Facebook were made aware of the post. The word gets around.
Stux wrote: Whether or not it's reasonable to expect people to check facebook, it's still the point cost of the unit. The alternative is that the cost is null, which is utterly absurd and it baffles me that anyone is entertaining that.
Also, the reach of the point cost is far further than the reach of the post. Many many people who play the game who dont even use Facebook were made aware of the post. The word gets around.
I'm not contesting the points cost. As I said, the intent is crystal clear here. They made an editing mistake and intend on correcting it shortly with an official FAQ/Errata.
The issue is that FB is a terrible, terrible way to communicate out rules updates. It's great for news articles that people really only care about today. It's terrible for persistent updates that people will care about tomorrow. It's not like you can go on FB and click on the 40kFAQs/Erratas section.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Stux wrote: Oh for sure, I dont disagree with that. I think we're on the same page here.
Agreed.
I'm actually not averse to GW using FB as a SUPPLEMENTAL source to get the word out, but the primary source should really be the FAQs/Erratas page. I get that this is 99% a timing in issue. In a couple of weeks, nobody will care because the FAQs/Errata page will be updated. Realistically, they need to get a better editor. This is a pretty egregious mistake that rudimentary editing should have caught.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Stux wrote: Oh for sure, I dont disagree with that. I think we're on the same page here.
Agreed.
I'm actually not averse to GW using FB as a SUPPLEMENTAL source to get the word out, but the primary source should really be the FAQs/Erratas page. I get that this is 99% a timing in issue. In a couple of weeks, nobody will care because the FAQs/Errata page will be updated. Realistically, they need to get a better editor. This is a pretty egregious mistake that rudimentary editing should have caught.
And the fact it happened 2 PA books in a row is especially embarrassing.
The thing is, if it has also happened in the next book there will have been nothing they could do likely well before Ritual released! It'll have been at the printers yonks ago.
Stux wrote: Whether or not it's reasonable to expect people to check facebook, it's still the point cost of the unit. The alternative is that the cost is null, which is utterly absurd and it baffles me that anyone is entertaining that.
Also, the reach of the point cost is far further than the reach of the post. Many many people who play the game who dont even use Facebook were made aware of the post. The word gets around.
Problem with that, just like e-mails, it can easily be faked, so no one can rely on what you posted as we do not know if it is real or not.
Those of us without Facebook can not even verify it.
Checking the tenets of this very forum:
Tenets of You Make Da Call wrote:
2. The only official sources of information are the current rulebooks and the Games Workshop FAQs. Emails from Games Workshop can be easily spoofed and are notorious for being inconsistent and so should not be relied on.
2a. Rulings via GW's social media accounts, twitch streams, etc., even though often provided by the actual games designers, are still not considered official rulings by GW until they are actually published in a errata/FAQ. As such, while it is fine to bring up rulings provided this way in YMDC, it must always be couched with the understanding that these are not official, binding rulings until they actually make their way into a errata/FAQ. If you are mentioning such a ruling, please take the time to post a link to where it can be found so that others can verify for themselves what you're referring to.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
alextroy wrote: You couldn’t find the picture on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page? It took me less than 30 seconds scrolling through the picture gallery.
alextroy wrote: You couldn’t find the picture on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page? It took me less than 30 seconds scrolling through the picture gallery.
Yeah... still not a great way to distribute rules updates. There is a near zero chance that I'm going to scroll through that FB page's image gallery before every game I play. I also never would have thought to look through the image gallery for what would presumably be a text rules update.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Those of us without Facebook can not even verify it.
I'm not saying it's a good method, but it's what they chose. Would I prefer if they had put it in the FAQ site? Sure. But Shadowsun still has a points value of 127.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/24 22:21:58
alextroy wrote: You couldn’t find the picture on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page? It took me less than 30 seconds scrolling through the picture gallery.
Stux wrote: I'm not saying it's a good method, but it's what they chose. Would I prefer if they had put it in the FAQ site? Sure. But Shadowsun still has a points value of 127.
No, he does not, as Facebook is demonstrably not rules...
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
You guys are so hardcore. You can't even believe a stopgap rules release on Facebook while we await the initial FAQ.
Well, the rest of the world will take the guidance that GW offers.
Which reminds me. The Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page says:
And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.
Funnily enough, posting the points value of Shadowsun is not an answer to a rules question. It's an actual publication of a rule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/25 02:03:12
AM/IG - 122nd Terrax Guard: 2094/3000pts
Skitarii/Cult Mech: 1380/2000pts
Khorne Daemonkin - Host of the Nervous Knife: 1701/2000pts
Orks - Rampage Axez: 1753/2000pts 
6800 points 
75 points 
5740 points 
2650 points 
55 points 
640 points 
1840 points 
435 points
2990 points 
700 points 
2235 points 
1935 points
3460 points 
