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Rule of 1 doesnt sound very fun in all honesty. I'm fine with 3 in 40k as a bit of a sanity check, but 1 stifles too much creative list building.

If everyone is running 3 KoS and stomping, it's simply too good a unit. It needs nerfing, and if that has knock on effects on the viability of the army as a whole look at giving other units a bit of a buff to balance it.

Something like each additional dupe costs an extra 10% points, so 110% for 2, 120% for 3 might help to fix some of these problems but I reckon there are bigger problems with unlimited summoning and so on.

 Da Boss wrote:
Something like each additional dupe costs an extra 10% points, so 110% for 2, 120% for 3 might help to fix some of these problems but I reckon there are bigger problems with unlimited summoning and so on.

I cant see that model ever happening in all honesty. Incremental percentage increases are a bit messy and not something I could see GW going for.

And yeah, there are bigger problems!

 Da Boss wrote:
Something like each additional dupe costs an extra 10% points, so 110% for 2, 120% for 3 might help to fix some of these problems but I reckon there are bigger problems with unlimited summoning and so on.

This is still bad, no one has problems with spam in AoS other than a few OP units, again if everyone is take XZY units then those units are a problem not the system. No one is mad when i take 4 Ghorgons, but people are mad when i take 1 KoS. If a unit is a problem just raise the points, or rewrite the warscroll. Also if you want to stop people from taking multiple units of "some units" we already have a rule for that, "unique".

Making X+units cost X+% is a bad idea b.c it will cause other problems and make list builder harder at the same time make it worst for meta by making many units unplayable after the 1st take when they have battalions and a clear purpose to taking multiples of them. Players will still just find what X units are best solo and take those units, again like i said before, army lists will be the same between players with no variety b.c you added more restrictions instead of fixing broken units.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Ro1 would be stupid honestly. That means so many less options its not even funny. Many tournament lists would be even worst than they are now b.c everyone knows they can only have 1 of X units (besides battleline) and everyone would play the same builds with no options b.c there would be no options. And on top of that many Battalions are now dead.

If units like KoS are a problem, then raise the points a little, thats why we have a points system in place.

These are the reasons why I ultimately reject it, no matter how many times the idea pops into my head. Points are the better way to fix such things.

Also if rerolls were to become more rare, would bonuses to hit/wound/damage etc. or extra attacks be a suitable replacement? Or would these just cause different problems?

I think often it could just be replaced with re-roll 1s. Daemonic power, for example, was and would still be a perfectly viable spell if it was re-roll 1s. It gives some bad luck protection without being extremely powerful. For attacks with 5+ or 4+ profiles bonuses to hit/wound also work well. Though such bonuses can be stacked so one needs to be careful. More niche bonuses could also open up tactics, like a buff that provides no direct bonus but allows a unit to ignore penalties. Or something like a bonus against targets that can fly, or a bonus against units with 10+ models, etc. There are all manner of niche bonuses that could be implemented via lore spells in a positive way, leaving generic buffs for the base spells on warscrolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Something like each additional dupe costs an extra 10% points, so 110% for 2, 120% for 3 might help to fix some of these problems but I reckon there are bigger problems with unlimited summoning and so on.

I cant see that model ever happening in all honesty. Incremental percentage increases are a bit messy and not something I could see GW going for.

And yeah, there are bigger problems!

I feel like that would indeed be messy, and a way of treating the symptom instead of the problem. Most units have diminishing returns by the very nature of the loss in tactical variety by spamming, if they were simply pointed good-enough in the first place it wouldn't be an issue. Summoning/resurrection definitely needs to be reigned in. Ideally it would all be like Khorne where it comes out of the space allegiance abilities occupy, but right now it is just a free upgrade for most armies and a wholly unneeded one in many a case. Yeah I know it sells extra models to some players, but GW needs three to four of those to make up for every player that quits because they're sick of it. In my personal experience the net result does not work out in GWs favor long term.

Honestly it's probably best to just point these units properly. Units like Keepers that act as summoning machines really should cost a fortune in the beginning on account of all the extra units they bring in.

As for the reroll issue, I was experimenting with this set up for the Overlords, see what you think:

Aethergold shares: In your Hero Phase, friendly Kharadron Overlord units can use 1 of their shares of Aethergold to power their weaponry. When a Kharadron Overlord unit uses a share of Aethergold, it adds 1 attack to all of its weapons until your next Hero Phase. If a Kharadron Overlord unit uses any shares of Aethergold, it has -1 Bravery for the rest of the game. (Just want to cut straight to the chase. Quick and simple).

Aether-Khemist's Aetheric Augmentation: In your Hero Phase, pick 1 friendly Kharadron Overlord unit wholly within 12" of this model. Until your next Hero Phase, add 1 to the attacks of this unit. A unit cannot benefit from this ability more than once per turn. (Though to be honest, this might work best as a Command Ability)

Arkanaut Company Glory-seekers: This unit starts the game with a Triumph. (Can be happily done at the start of the game. Also a random bonus that is a bit of a lucky dip. Also I think it suits the spirit of this ability like a glove).

Aetheric Navigator's Read The Winds: You can add 2 to the Movement of friendly Skyvessels that are visible to a friendly Aetheric Navigator that has not attempted to use the Aetherstorm ability in the same turn. (Their current ability is actually a bit redundant when you think about it).

This is just an example of how you might be able to go about reducing rerolls for a particular army, saving them for command abilities and such. Saving rerolls for the Code, command abilities and maybe your Companies if you're lucky.

When I run keepers through my azyr comp app they come out to being around 420-450 points a pop, due to the insane summoning that they give you.

And I bet if you were to use them at that point cost with their insane summoning, things would actually be kind of fun for the other guy across the table that wasn't playing the 3 keeper list.

Yeah, probably would be.