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While I think this approach ultimately makes sense, I suspect it's going to hurt the running Kickstarter total, since some people (read: my lazy ass) are going to just pledge $1 and then figure out their final order at the last possible minute before the pledge manager closes, which will presumably after the campaign ends.

No big deal, but I wouldn't put those stretch goals at too high a number.

 Haasbioroid wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
It does tell you. There is a diagram halfway down the campaign that has a full list of the cost of each package of bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, that one....

Yea...that wasn't there earlier.

D'oh... sorry. I thought it looked a bit obvious for it to have been missed!

In for a couple of packs of the black fractal bases for BSF.

Interesting. You've got someone I trust boldly proclaiming how great the product is, but it is a bit more expensive than I anticipated.

But it's too much hassle to track the progress. I've pledged, but I'll get to it properly once your themes are all unlocked and I can have a good look-see.

Actually, these are very affordable compared to others (looking at you, Bandua). Especially considering these are US made and therefore no shipping expense from Spain. In for about 90 bases currently.

I got enough of the Cobblestone ones to cover my Wolsung and Twisted minis, and enough Fleur de Lys for my wife’s Sororitas.

Was out today and just got home, and just backed!

This is so awesome, but as others have said, are you sure you want just the $1 pledge level?

What about a $100 pledge level that nets you $110 in credit in the pledge manager, or the like? You don't have to specify, it can just give credit, but you need pledge levels!! Half the people don't know how to work Kickstarter and edit their pledge lol.

I'd actually consider canceling and relaunching the campaign with this, with the early birds at the $100 level (and $1 unlimited). This should have wayyyyyy more than $6k right now, and it's solely due to this!

Heck, even I only went in for $1 atm pending getting to read all the details of what I want tomorrow. You want the impulse backer to be $100, not $1, and they'll sort out the details later! And to be completely honest, that's what us customers want, too

(Also, the third highest Kickstarter EVER cancelled and relaunched shortly after and then broke all records, there's no shame or issue in doing so at all)

I get your point, trust me I do, but SWM have a REALLY strong aversion to making this anything but a completely custom selection, they don't want people locked in for anything they don't want.

That being said, I think part of the issue with the reasoning above is, you don't have to get all nitty gritty. You don't even need to go into the pledge manager really, if you know you need 60 30mm bases, ball park it with the pricing chart graphic and just enter that into your KS total! Doesn't need to be tough.

Ultimately you don't go through the 'checkout' until the end of the KS anyhow, so really, there is no harm to customer at all bidding on the bases they need and seeing what other themes are available at the end before finalizing.

In this case it makes things trickier for SWM, but really, it's in service of you guys! Still worth it to put in a ballpark pledge though, to get those extras unlocked so sitting at a buck doesn't do you much good if you know you are in for more!

hm... I need to clear some budget for this. Love those dark circuit themed bases...

Well its funded, nice one guys!

Not sure about what to do with pledging myself, expect to be in the middle of moving countries when this is due to deliver so might have to see if I can piggy back off of someone elses pledge so that I don't forget to change address (again...) but need to throw money at it so the desert bases unlock.

I got you, Tom! I just think if they look at the average amount pledged per backer (currently $21) they'll see it's way too low, and that's only due to the format.

As the creator, they can also look at individual pledges - my feeling is they probably have some whales accompanied by several hundred $1 pledges, where instead we should all be pledging for $50, $100 or $200 worth of credit and sorting the rest out afterwards! That's what people normally do anyway lol...

Maybe I missed it, but have there been any examples of, say, the grassy field or desert or any other "natural" design with some additional grass tufts or rock or anything added? It would be hard for me to just leave these as-is. I really like a 3-dimensional aspect to my bases for everything except basic infantry/chaff.

No examples yet, but it should be fine to add grass tufts and flock. With the 3D layered details shown it looks like they should take really well to washes and weathering pigments too. My plan is to airbrush some nuln oil into the center to darken it like the mini was casting a shadow, which you could do to a few dozen of these bases in only a few minutes.

I know secret weapon makes weathering pigments, would be nice to see an example of them especially on the tile pattern bases

There are actually a few examples of pics and him applying washes and tufts to cobblestone on the SWM FB page. Yeah the washes and weathering run into the seams perfectly like you would expect. You can also drybrush, glue on more scatter just as you would any other.

We will be sure to make a vid ASAP, and also I am desperately trying to find my models in my storage locker to I can get some more pics on bases.

People are starting to update their 1$ pledges with ballpark figures, if you are in, but still at a buck, just put in 60-100 dollars for now, you are not locked in to anything til the end and that represents a conservative average pledge. I know it would have been easier to just force everyone to do it, but SWM REALLY doesn't want to force anyone to spend a cent more than they want to. That's why they don't want higher minimums, BUT, if you intend to buy 50 bases, ballpark the amount with the price lists and put that in to unlock the themes!

First unlock is open, things are picking up kinda like Bones 3 and 4, people just need to get the feel of the system hopefully!

This is bonkers. What a great tech advancement! Hats off to SWM.
I'm going to have to back.

Very kind thank you!

I finally found my models in the very back of my storage locker (been there since I moved from Canada), and of course they were in the f&%^^$%^ back bottom corner of a 30 foot locker. So that sucked.

What doesn't suck is I can finally take some shots of models on the bases for you guys, and perhaps do a few paint and weather demo's too for those who want to see it -

Remember, if you backed already, update your pledge to an amount that reflects your intention! If you need 50 bases, put in the $ for 50 bases! If you aren't sure, 80-100 bucks is a good place to sit for most box games and small armies.

Have backed, bring on the desert bases!

How about some more pics of minis on bases???

Very nice, really does improve the "feel" of the bases if you get me.

Quick Q, does the pledge manager thingy need to be gone through straight away? Reading on the kickstarter that people have been going through it but I just did the multiplication and pledged accordingly.

 ingtaer wrote:
Very nice, really does improve the "feel" of the bases if you get me.

Totally, when you see them casting shadows and see the relief of the mini largely matches the relief on the base, you start to pick out the height from the print easier in pics. In real life it's so obvious, when you move around it you see it so easily.

 ingtaer wrote:
Quick Q, does the pledge manager thingy need to be gone through straight away? Reading on the kickstarter that people have been going through it but I just did the multiplication and pledged accordingly.

YES. 100% yes, and everyone who is sitting on their 1$ pledge should do this. You only need to calculate at the end, when you need to finalize based on all the choices of the options available. For now, just ballpark and that will be so helpful. Bit of a double edged sword, we don't want to force people into bundles they don't want, but at the same time with such a low minimum a lot of people are backing and intend to fill in later. But if you need 50 bases, put in the cost of 50 bases. Or put in 75-100 bucks and adjust later, but that is the range of covering your typical boxed game these days, or a small-mid sized army in most games.

I think perhaps the problem is one of optics - the casual KS backer especially may find it confusing when you're asking them to pledge $1, then use the pledge manager to find out the total for what they want, THEN come back and update their pledge for the total to be counted. That last bit is critical for you but your page doesn't emphasize it enough.

A better solution might be to tell people to PLEDGE for what they want (in real big text, right next to your pricing graphic) and then explain that they can change things around or choose exactly what they want to get AFTERWARD using the pledge manager. It is in effect the same thing, but puts the emphasis on their KS pledge rather than on the manager.

Anyway, my two cents. Hope this does really well for you guys - money is really tight ATM so I can't guarantee that I'm in, but I'm keeping my eye on this!

Thanks for the pics, Tom!!! Love quite a few of these - the cobblestones look even more convincing with a miniature, and some of the "out there" scifi ones look amazing and really take advantage of the medium - they're things you'd never see on a large number of bases due to how tricky they'd be to pull off by hand.

Thanks guys! Running around like a chicken without a head but more cool content to come - and a few more themes to boot -

In the meantime, thanks very much for the continued support, and we are working on sorting out the pledging psychology issue, it is a weird thing to know we are really at the 40-50k level but that the set-up is allowing a lower number to show. Even odder that at the end, it will be there. We know you guys deserve to see and unlock a bunch of stretches and the set-up is preventing, so ch-ch-changes are being considered - Stay tuned, and if you pledged, update your pledge with a ballpark estimate of what you want, or, just put in that 75-$100 buck amount that is the likely sweet spot for most!

These stretch goals need to change to "daily unlocks" otherwise we will not unlock them. Even other companies like CMON did the same with slow kickstarters like Trudvang.

I'm currently at $1 and will not up my pledge until I know for certain that Infinity Bases are available. No reason for me to pledge $300 when the bases I want might not be unlocked when the campaign ends and the stretch goal remains locked. Then I'm stuck with having to pick from bases I did not want.

We can't calculate how much to pledge, if we don't know what's truly available to buy.

Daily unlocks only works if the company can afford to make everything even if the funding doesn't come in

CMON has the capitalisation for that not sure about secret weapon (or if there is a cost for the infinity & zombicide hook-ups, I suspect there is)

If we don't have daily unlocks, then this is exactly why people won't up their pledge above $1. We don't even know what's really available for ordering.

Desert and Infinity bases are being promote....and they aren't even available to purchase if the campaign ended right now.

Stretch goals should be for added bonuses, not for items that people want to pledge for but might not actually have the chance to purchase.

Equally I only want the BSF style bases and not interested in any of the unlocks, so literally no reason to pledge more than a dollar and sort it out in the pledge manager later. Maybe when there's a better idea on how UK shipping will work.

I mean, I know I could just up it, then reduce it down again the day before the campaign finishes. But then, we all could. People that really want the unlocks could just pledge $5K and remove it again after they're unlocked.

It's a weird situation as there's no incentive for those that only want the original bases to pledge more than $1, and it's weird for those that want the unlock ones to pledge more than $1 as they might end up not being able to get them. Only people that want bases from both sections have a real reason to pledge more.

Glad to see the Desert bases unlock!

deano2099 wrote:
Equally I only want the BSF style bases and not interested in any of the unlocks, so literally no reason to pledge more than a dollar and sort it out in the pledge manager later. Maybe when there's a better idea on how UK shipping will work.

I get what you are saying but don't actually understand it, I know pretty much how many bases I want and so just pledged accordingly. It makes as much sense to do so now as to do so later so why not just do it now? If things that I want don't become available then I will drop my pledge down accordingly.

Hopefully SWM come up with something that makes people want to pledge during the Kickstarter rather than later and hopefully they do so soon as its a long way to the Infinity bases without it happening.

This is an interesting conundrum. You guys have architected this the kickstarter in a way that maximizes benefits to the customer (in that they only pay for what they want) but also disincentives them for kicking in more (which hurts SWM), which decreases chances of further unlocks (which hurts the customers and SWM). The road to hell, and all that.

I think you have 3 options here:

A: Radically adjust the unlocks for substantially lower dollar amounts

B.) Change the unlocks to number of pledges instead of dollar amounts.

C.) Unlock them based not upon actual pledged amounts, but on projected amounts - ie, if you know the average pledge SHOULD be X, then unlock them when you have a number of backers times X expected dollars to reach Y unlock. Of course, depending on production strategy, this could backfire dangerously if your projections are off dramatically in either direction. But if the art is already done and you're only paying to produce what actually gets ordered, that can work out well.

Yep, this is clear, and above comments are actually quite helpful -

What really resonated with me in terms of articulating things was the mention that these are not really stretches, but the core options locked behind the barrier. We know there is actually a LOT of support for the product, but the Bones style KS system without a big core buy-in is actually blocking people from getting the options they want to buy. There was a lot of faith in the bones system because people involved with those are involved here, but ultimately, a more traditional KS structure to opt in is clearly valuable to a good chunk of buyers. So, I know they are considering their options, and it really is to just give you guys the options you deserve based on what the backing already would ultimately be.

They are on this and I am pretty damn confident people will be happy about the changes, so bear with us! The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it happened, right?

The openness is super appreciated, Tom!! You guys have been amazing so far . My only concern is just that the project brings in what it deserves to. Looking forward to developments!