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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 11:46:28
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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They are not at all independent; the first Sylvaneth grew from seeds Alarriele saved from the Old World, and were specifically tended by her. The battletome explicitly states as such.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 11:48:16
Subject: New Factions
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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NinthMusketeer wrote:They are not at all independent; the first Sylvaneth grew from seeds Alarriele saved from the Old World, and were specifically tended by her. The battletome explicitly states as such.
Yeah, and the seeds are from Athel Loren where the forest folk existed long before the Elves. Admittedly, some of this requires you to know the lore of the Wood Elves and the stuff out of the Orion trilogy from Darius Hinks but the long and short of it is that the forest spirits were there before the Elves and didn't require the Elves to exist. It was a big plot hook for Drycha when she first got introduced that her and her master are so vindictive towards the Wood Elves.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/18 11:50:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 12:01:49
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Alarielle saved the seeds, planted them, cared for them. They are not independent. This is not Athel Loren.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/18 12:02:38
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 12:12:37
Subject: New Factions
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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There's Grungi's Dwarfs (Dispossessed), there's Grimnir's Dwarfs (Fyreslayers) so that just leaves Valaya - Light Dwarfs? Point is, more Dawi is never a bad thing. It figures that Legion of Azgorath will go the way of the dodo eventually, so seeing plastic Chaos Dwarfs wouldn't go amiss. Soulblight has already been mentioned. They could tick the boxes of a Bretonnian-esq army, focusing on heavy cavalry/armoured knights supported by weak throngs of peasants/blood-thralls. I hope that going forward Cities of Sigmar becomes the foundation for merely updating Free Guilds rather than trying to spin them off in new, weird, OTT ways that would go against the theme of the Free Guilds in particular being normal, moderately equipped guys, but that seems unlikely.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/18 12:14:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 12:16:09
Subject: New Factions
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Never said it was Athel Loren. Simply stated that the Forest Folk(Dryads) and Treelords are independent of Alarielle and existed before the Elves did. That Alarielle brought them back via seeds does not change the initial conditions of things, given that the seeds are specifically called out as relics of the World that Was. It wasn't "elf magic" that brought them into being or suddenly made the trees start acting like they think they are people.
Maybe we're just talking past each other right now, or maybe we're viewing the lore through two different lenses.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 16:33:07
Subject: New Factions
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The soul amphorae are not really described in much detail. Just because Alarielle took spirits of the old-world treefolk doesn't mean they didn't get turned into something else in the meantime while under her direct power. Just like all those elf souls gutpumped from Slaanesh aren't what they started out being. AoS lore describes all the tree spirits as being almost extension of Alariell's will, incredibly attuned to her whims and moods. What they were prior is irrelevant, just like we don't know if idoneth souls used by Teclis were initially high elf, dark elf, or sea elf , or wood elf.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 19:37:43
Subject: New Factions
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kanluwen wrote:Never said it was Athel Loren. Simply stated that the Forest Folk(Dryads) and Treelords are independent of Alarielle and existed before the Elves did. That Alarielle brought them back via seeds does not change the initial conditions of things, given that the seeds are specifically called out as relics of the World that Was. It wasn't "elf magic" that brought them into being or suddenly made the trees start acting like they think they are people.
Maybe we're just talking past each other right now, or maybe we're viewing the lore through two different lenses.
You don't need to have created something to be it's deity. You technically live under the dominion of Zeus, but he sure as gak didn't create humans; he actually tried to kill us all at first. To be a God you only need to rule those things. Alarielle is the caretaker and protector of the "tree folks"; without her they would have never been reborn. Without her, they would all be destroyed by the forces of Chaos, thus she's their goddess.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/18 19:38:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 20:01:52
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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It is like saying if a farmer plants a field that crop is independent of the farmer just because that plant species existed before he did. That does not make any sense to me.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 20:44:23
Subject: New Factions
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Reread what I initially replied to and it might make more sense. I specifically called out Tree-Revenants(which Alarielle actually created) as being an iffy category here, and went on to say that things like Dryads and Treelords existed before. To use your example, it would be like saying that the farmer was responsible for creating the strain of whatever he grew even though it was a naturally occurring plant with no modifications or anything of that nature. The farmer seeded the field and the crop grew--but the plants could potentially have grown without the farmer if the seeds had been dropped by birds or the like. Nowhere am I saying that "Sylvaneth wouldn't exist now if Alarielle wasn't involved" because that's what happened. I'm saying that it was not "elf magic" that created the Forest Folk and Treelords in the first place. Edit note: Sorry if it seems like I'm being aggressive or the like. Read this in a conversational tone rather than the "SHOUTY ANGRYFACE!" that people always seem to think I post in!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/18 20:45:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 22:35:33
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Did not seem aggressive to me but I appreciate the clarification regardless.
Anyways, they may have existed in the Old World but this is Age of Sigmar. The original question was in regards to why Alarielle is their God without being a tree-person herself. The fact is in AoS if Alarielle did not exist neither would Sylvaneth. In AoS their existence is very much dependent on her. If the question was Sylvaneth existing in Warhammer the answer would be different as you have detailed quite well.
But to steer things back to new factions; Kurnoth seems to be dead-ish at the moment but it would be interesting to see him come back and be like 'nah I don't care about any of y'all I'm gunna fist-bump my new bud Gork (or possibly Mork) and destroy all dis cuz the 'Realms'd be betta off without civilization!'
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 22:39:19
Subject: New Factions
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Fixture of Dakka
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I feel like the different factions and the way GW have set them out are very limiting in new factions. I'd love a Death army that doesn't follow Nagash but is still sane. Ruled by Settra. Or just Settra. Basically I just want Settra.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 22:44:24
Subject: New Factions
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Worth mentioning that Kurnoth isn't about "tearing down civilization" or stuff like that. He's about the joy of the hunt and wild spaces and the preservation of the natural order. Guy had a 'hunting preserve' as well in the form of Kurnotheal.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/18 22:45:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 22:44:25
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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pm713 wrote:I feel like the different factions and the way GW have set them out are very limiting in new factions. I'd love a Death army that doesn't follow Nagash but is still sane. Ruled by Settra. Or just Settra. Basically I just want Settra.
That would be pretty dam sweet TBH. I'd love the inevitable meetup with Stormcast too:
"Hey nu-Settra, you hate Nagash, we're at war with Nagash, would you like to team up as part of Sigmar's pantheo-"
"NUSETTRA DOES NOT SERVE!" *stab*
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 22:58:49
Subject: New Factions
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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pm713 wrote:I feel like the different factions and the way GW have set them out are very limiting in new factions. I'd love a Death army that doesn't follow Nagash but is still sane. Ruled by Settra. Or just Settra. Basically I just want Settra.
I much preferred the old format, tbh. The current one is far too keyword-oriented for my tastes.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 23:13:02
Subject: New Factions
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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pm713 wrote:I feel like the different factions and the way GW have set them out are very limiting in new factions. I'd love a Death army that doesn't follow Nagash but is still sane. Ruled by Settra. Or just Settra. Basically I just want Settra.
Technically Flesh Eaters don't follow Nagash - they are utterly insane. He mostly just uses some tricks to point them roughly in the direction he wants and crosses his fingers that they go that way.
Meanwhile many of the vampires would happily break free and away from Nagash if they could.
Even the Ossiarchs - his perfectly custom crafted army - retain individuality. His control over them is greater than some other armies, but he can't be all places at once.
That said I do get your meaning and there are many Inferno stories and even Ghoul Slayer (Gotrek) which show whole races in the Underworld who are not following Nagash. That said, at present, the only underworld that doesn't seem to have any chance of losing to him is the Skaven one - all the others appear to have either fallen already or are well versed in their own inevitable loss to his vast legions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 23:38:09
Subject: New Factions
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Would it be possible for Tomb Kings to be both a Death and and Order army? Or would that be far to weard regarding the rules?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/18 23:49:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/18 23:59:19
Subject: New Factions
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Niiai wrote:Would it be possible for Tomb Kings to be both a Death and and Order army? Or would that be far to weard regarding the rules?
We are extremely unlikely to ever see anything like Tomb Kings again. They were, if memory serves me right, the least popular army of Warhammer Fantasy. With some luck, Khalida and Settra will make a return in some way, but it's unlikely both from a commercial and storytelling perspective. Nagash wouldn't have saved undeads opposed to him and Sigmar was unlikely to rescue undeads himself, especially not one like Settra whose "do-goodness" credential are atrocious.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 00:39:43
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Niiai wrote:Would it be possible for Tomb Kings to be both a Death and and Order army? Or would that be far to weird regarding the rules?
Quite the opposite; units with more than one Grand Alliance keyword would not generate any mechanical issues. This is because the only allegiances they could make it into by default wound be the Grand Alliance ones, which are deliberately low-potency to compensate for being able to mix & match from a massive roster. It would really just be a matter of fluff. Automatically Appended Next Post: vipoid wrote:pm713 wrote:I feel like the different factions and the way GW have set them out are very limiting in new factions. I'd love a Death army that doesn't follow Nagash but is still sane. Ruled by Settra. Or just Settra. Basically I just want Settra.
I much preferred the old format, tbh. The current one is far too keyword-oriented for my tastes.
I have found Everchosen shows that GW is willing to give us more wiggle room with demi-allegiances that may not have their own battletome but are still usable as armies. For example an army of mixed Chaos Daemons (like the old Army Book from WHFB) is viable now, if not strong*.
*Technically it can be min-maxed to produce an overpowered list, but that is because Pink Horrors are currently broken rather than the allegiance.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/19 00:43:07
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 00:50:23
Subject: New Factions
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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I fully expect to see, at some stage, armies that either cross two Grand Alliances or those which are outside of the GA structure.
It should be noted that lore wise we already have orruks, goblins and ogors living side by side within various Order settlements. Just like they also live alongside the Undead.
Plus whilst chaos stands alone for the most part; all those "wild peoples" who aren't quite chaos but are - they can all intermingle with the other factions.
So story wise GW doesn't need to create bridge factions, the factions already bridge between each other really well in the stories.
As noted, armies already have limits on what allies they can have; so having an army in two Grand Alliances might not be all that broken as within each of the Grand Alliances it might only be possible for it to ally to one or two factions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 01:50:30
Subject: New Factions
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Sons of Behemat are potentially the first 'cross alliance' setups. The Oakenbrow Glade welcomed them after Behemat was slain, and they live in their area.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 02:08:11
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Overread wrote:I fully expect to see, at some stage, armies that either cross two Grand Alliances or those which are outside of the GA structure.
It should be noted that lore wise we already have orruks, goblins and ogors living side by side within various Order settlements. Just like they also live alongside the Undead.
They do? Where is that mentioned, I need to go read it.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 03:08:01
Subject: New Factions
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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epronovost wrote: Niiai wrote:Would it be possible for Tomb Kings to be both a Death and and Order army? Or would that be far to weard regarding the rules?
We are extremely unlikely to ever see anything like Tomb Kings again. They were, if memory serves me right, the least popular army of Warhammer Fantasy. With some luck, Khalida and Settra will make a return in some way, but it's unlikely both from a commercial and storytelling perspective. Nagash wouldn't have saved undeads opposed to him and Sigmar was unlikely to rescue undeads himself, especially not one like Settra whose "do-goodness" credential are atrocious.
Yeah I know. A lot of their fluff has been cut and put in other armies. Ghoul Kings do not know they are undead. TK used to have the same thing (in some cases.) Carving out huge stone statues or bone statues and enclose souls into it, Bone Reapers have that. (Also, bone reapers look a lot like TK. They even have the sould screaming catapult.)
What I have not seen copied though is the TK playstyle. They waried a bit through the editions. In one TK could have several combat phases. (Witch some units can do now I belive in some armies.) Also they had a lot of units that where good on a charge (chariots.) Minor resurection, and deepstrikes in ambushes from the sand. If you wanted to, you could make something like TK it is possible. They are in the fluff of the realm of light I think, but they are not entioned a lot after that.
If GW wants to make TK come back they would have to do it with a nice bow and make them be distink. Like you see how fire dwarfs and flying dwarfs are different then generic dwarfs. You would need something different then egyptian undead. Settra was stil around by the end times, so you have a figurehead for the faction. Having them be anti nagash is a nice tagline as well. I could see New TK could be written into the fluff. Perhaps Sigmar made a secret pact with Settra in case Nagash betrayed him? Perhaps Settra could be a minor deuty. I do not know what happened with the Egyptian gods by the endtimes. It would be a very funn senario. But as stated GW would need to find a good theme for them. Turn that sand button to eleven.
But all of this has been said before. I think the fact that tomb kings had horrible saves, could not charge, had a ton of exstra rules that where bad (hieorphant, need to spend magic poits to be abel to march etc.) often had bad attacks and all in all where a hard army to play was what made them unpopular. A lot of people liked seeing them on the table, just not play them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 04:07:30
Subject: New Factions
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Niiai wrote:I do not know what happened with the Egyptian gods by the endtimes.
I believed they were consummed to fuel Nagash rise to godhood. In other words, Nagash is "the Egyptian god" and he does still rock and Egyptian-ish look so to the Ossiarch up to a certain point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 05:17:36
Subject: New Factions
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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In the end times one of the first things Nagash did after coming back was hit up the TK underworld to nom those gods; morghasts were originally from there.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 08:47:06
Subject: New Factions
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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NinthMusketeer wrote: Overread wrote:I fully expect to see, at some stage, armies that either cross two Grand Alliances or those which are outside of the GA structure.
It should be noted that lore wise we already have orruks, goblins and ogors living side by side within various Order settlements. Just like they also live alongside the Undead.
They do? Where is that mentioned, I need to go read it.
In most stories that involve the land of the dead its oft said that its a realm where the living and the dead live side by side. Of course major settlements like Sigmar's Cities its mostly the living and you won't get a Flesh Eater walking down the street to pop into the local shops. But the dead are everywhere. In Realmslayer Gotrek and co visit a small settlement where the living and the dead co-habit - though that story focuses a touch more on the dead side of it.
Meanwhile for Orruks and the like living within settlements its in one of the Inferno stories - I forget which one, but its a deepkin story and I think its the most recent Inferno.
Don't forget Orruks and the like (ergo Destruction, or at least the bulk of it) was part of the Pantheon. It was part of the Grand Alliance of nations and peoples that rose up during the Age of Myth. It only fragmented off because their gods and peoples clash culturally with Sigmar's vision of neat ordered cities and civilisation. Orruks don't want to settle down with the cheese trolley, a good book and a fine wine next to a roaring fire on an evening. Their cultures are nomadic by nature at large and many might even feel uncomfortable not roaming; raiding; fighting and more.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 14:39:41
Subject: New Factions
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I believe the idoneth story is the Sea Taketh. It has orruk and ogor mercs and an ogor businesswoman/mobster if i recall.
The stories make a much better job characterizing the factions than the one-note battletomes do tbh.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 15:26:37
Subject: New Factions
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Fixture of Dakka
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Cronch wrote:I believe the idoneth story is the Sea Taketh. It has orruk and ogor mercs and an ogor businesswoman/mobster if i recall.
The stories make a much better job characterizing the factions than the one-note battletomes do tbh.
Is it worth reading just for the Idoneth part? I'm interested in Idoneth but most factions in AoS aren't interesting to me at all.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 16:31:39
Subject: New Factions
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The idoneth are the opponents in this one, there's like...two pages of them in it. It's all about a kharadron diver.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 17:08:07
Subject: New Factions
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Fixture of Dakka
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Cronch wrote:The idoneth are the opponents in this one, there's like...two pages of them in it. It's all about a kharadron diver.
That's a shame. But I do like Kharadrons so I might get it if it's cheap somewhere.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/03/19 17:37:43
Subject: New Factions
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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pm713 wrote:Cronch wrote:The idoneth are the opponents in this one, there's like...two pages of them in it. It's all about a kharadron diver.
That's a shame. But I do like Kharadrons so I might get it if it's cheap somewhere.
It's in the "Myths and Revenants" collection.
There are two short stories featuring the Idoneth in one form or another there. The aforementioned "The Sea Taketh" and the fantastic novella called "The Learning". Both are by David Guymer.
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