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 pancakeonions wrote:
Hey MongooseMatt,

I got the rules booklet from the recent WarGames Illustrated, but I can't seem to find any way to play - there aren't any ship cards. Am I just missing something, or are there examples we can use for a test game?

Matt's not involved in that part of it. That's due to the release policy that Warlord Games is following.

Currently, you need to buy the ship models in order to get the cards. However, iirc the broadcast that Warlord did a little while back mentioned that there would be a ship book released with the stats for all of the various ships used during the War. This makes sense because it'll take Warlord a *very* long time to release an exhaustive set of ship models. There's been no announcement on when such a book will actually be released other than "soon". But I believe that there's a good chance that we'll see at least one rulebook by December, since that's when the convoy box (which is really only useful in a convoy scenario) will be released.

Until then, you can use the ship stats in the beta packet that Matt linked earlier in this thread.

Just bought the starter set for this game and was wondering if anyone could provide a resource for painting the ships. Most photos I've seen are ships in Port in your typical battleship Grey but I feel like that would look boring and samey when playing matches. If that's how they went to war I'll paint them all Grey for authenticity, just figured I'd ask first.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Just bought the starter set for this game and was wondering if anyone could provide a resource for painting the ships. Most photos I've seen are ships in Port in your typical battleship Grey but I feel like that would look boring and samey when playing matches. If that's how they went to war I'll paint them all Grey for authenticity, just figured I'd ask first.

For US ships, look here - http://www.usndazzle.com/index.php

It's a very exhaustive resource of camo schemes on every single USN warship during the war, including how the pattern changed from year to year.

The IJN largely didn't use camo on its warships. There were exceptions primarily centered around carrier decks. But the typical warship - including the ones found in the starter - were left in their original solid color. The specific color was one of four, and depended on the port that they'd originated from. I don't have a link for the colors handy (I learned this while researching what color to paint a Myoko miniature that I got from Shapeways about a year ago, and only needed a reference for her at the time), but you can get that easily enough by doing a little research on the internet. You'll also want to look up the specific ships, and where they were launched from, to determine which of the four colors that specific ship should be.

Ships that were permanently positioned as harbor anti-aircraft batteries (which included Myoko after she got stranded at Singapore) were painted in camo for those duties. But if the ships in question had ever returned to service as warships, the camo likely would have been removed before they returned to the open sea.

Hi peeps,

For those people who picked up the starter set did you notice a size difference in the turning templates? One of mine is defo different to the other, and I see no reference to this size difference in the starter rulebook. Maybe MongooseMatt can shed some light on this.

Have played the game a few times now, loving it so far although haven't tried aircraft yet. Was disappointed there wasn't more consistency in damage dice, US 14" guns do same damage as UK 16"? Just my thoughts.

thecardinal5483 wrote:


For those people who picked up the starter set did you notice a size difference in the turning templates? One of mine is defo different to the other, and I see no reference to this size difference in the starter rulebook. Maybe MongooseMatt can shed some light on this.

This is to handle different sized ships more easily (compare destroyers to battleships...), no other reason. 45 degrees is still 45 degrees

thecardinal5483 wrote:
Have played the game a few times now, loving it so far although haven't tried aircraft yet. Was disappointed there wasn't more consistency in damage dice, US 14" guns do same damage as UK 16"? Just my thoughts.

This is intentional - not all guns are built equally and our Official Naval Boffins went into a great deal of detail during their research into the weight of shells, composition of their warheads, potency of their explosives, etc.

Did anyone else have warped resin in their starter? None of my ships can lie flat on the table. Any suggestions? Been a while since I've had to deal with warped resin.

Drop them in some hot water for a minute, then straighten them out and 'set' them by running some cold water over them.

Or, if it's only a small amount of wobble, you could also just sand down the bottom.

Heating them up with a hair dyer will work, as well.

I didn't get any problems with my ships, but what you're describing is a persistant issue that shows up from time to time. I had a problem once with a Warlord tank track that wasn't flat.

MongooseMatt wrote:


This is intentional - not all guns are built equally and our Official Naval Boffins went into a great deal of detail during their research into the weight of shells, composition of their warheads, potency of their explosives, etc.

Thank you for the answer, that does make sense. Myself and a friend looked at the movement templates and thought they were just slightly different. Maybe just out eyes haha. I look forward to the full rules in due course!

Also one of my ships was very badly warped, it took some heat and time to straighten it out. I’ve heard elsewhere that this was a significant problem during the release, hopefully WG have looked into their mix.

Some news -

Apparently the starter has been selling well, as Warlord has revealed that it's currently sold out. It'll be restocked. But until then, I hope everyone who wanted a copy got one.

Eumerin wrote:


For US ships, look here - http://www.usndazzle.com/index.php

It's a very exhaustive resource of camo schemes on every single USN warship during the war, including how the pattern changed from year to year.

While I would encourage painters to do the Dazzle designs on their US ships if they want to, there are some thing to keep in mind. US paint schemes during the first half of the War were fairly bland designs that often didn't do more than use a simple two-color scheme that appears to have partially obscured the waterline of the ship. And then in mid-1943, the Dazzle schemes were rolled out, and US ships started to look very exotic. Finally, at the beginning of 1945, the USN recommended that ships in the Pacific revert to the earlier pre-Dazzle schemes, as Dazzle was ineffective against aircraft, and the sole remaining threat at that point in the Pacific theater were Japanese suicide aircraft.

Of the US ship models currently available (and ignoring the destroyers, which are generic), five of the cruisers and two of the battleships (including USS Arizona) have configuration dates that are pre-Dazzle. Of the two remaining battleships, USS Idaho is set in her 1945 configuration. And the website I linked earlier suggests that USS Missouri only had her Dazzle scheme for the amount of time that it took her to transit to the Pacific in 1944. That doesn't have to stop you from painting the ships in a scheme that they historically had at a different time in their careers. But three of the Northampton-class cruisers (and, of course, USS Arizona) were sunk before Dazzle was unveiled, which means that there was never an official Dazzle scheme for those ships. So you'll need to either get creative and paint some ships that never actually used Dazzle, or have a fleet that has a mix of camo schemes.


The Royal Navy used Dazzle as well. But afaik, that organization used it over the entire length of the War, so the possible issue of a hodge-podge of camo schemes isn't as big of a problem for them.

Time to give this thread another bump. Releases for January have been announced. The hard-back full rulebook will be released (along with a limited edition version that looks nicer, and has Matt's signature). The new rulebook will also be bundled with new single-player starters that are composed of the new book and the existing national fleet boxes (so you won't need to buy the two-player starter with the basic rules). Finally, there will be a "subs and MTBs" box for each of the initial fleets (to attack the convoy box scheduled for December), and new aircraft (Hellcat, Val, Gladiator, and FW-190).

Eumerin wrote:
Time to give this thread another bump. Releases for January have been announced. The hard-back full rulebook will be released (along with a limited edition version that looks nicer, and has Matt's signature). The new rulebook will also be bundled with new single-player starters that are composed of the new book and the existing national fleet boxes (so you won't need to buy the two-player starter with the basic rules). Finally, there will be a "subs and MTBs" box for each of the initial fleets (to attack the convoy box scheduled for December), and new aircraft (Hellcat, Val, Gladiator, and FW-190).

I've got my pre-order down for the big fancy book and some USN subs and MTBs!

https://www.warlordgames.com/victory-at-sea-rulebook-a-preview/



As Eumerin said, the book comes in both a standard and special edition version. It's a large hard-back book, so even the standard edition isn't exacutly cheap, and the SE book is 2x the cost! However, this book has loads of stats for hundreds of ships, dozens of scenarios, and full rules for the game (including rules for submarines). If you are an established naval gamer that already has a ton of WWII minis, this is what you need to get into V@S in my opinion.

Here is the announcement for the Subs and PT boats:



https://www.warlordgames.com/submersibles-and-mtbs-in-victory-at-sea/

Good to see we are getting more aircraft released. The way they are constructed (aircraft are separate from the stand), I might get some to use for deck-park purposes and stick to my 1/900 aircraft from War At Sea for gaming purposes.

Hello again, fair folks, and apologies for the semi-necro, I have some rules questions for MongooseMatt, if I may, once again?

I'm having some trouble with the interpretation of VaS rules, particularly aircraft performance, smoke, and battles that focus primarily on lots of airplanes attacking lots of ships (think Midway scenario in the beta). Would it be possible to give me an answer to the questions below? There's no rush, but I would like a definitive ruling, so feel free to take your time. It's very possible that these questions have been answered in the final edition of the rulebook, but as we don't have access to that until two months down the road...

1. First and foremost - how do Devastating criticals work? The rules state that a critical is scored on a 5 or a 6 with Dev weapons, and previous wording in the starter rules seems to imply that criticals are not 'scored' until after confirmation. Does this mean that Devastating weapons bypass the confirmation stage, or do we still need a 4+ on a confirmation die to get the crit?

2. Second - do Devastating weapons care at all about target armor? What about Dive bombers and Armored Decks? In the beta, Dive bombers HP damage used to be reduced by the ship's armor if the ship had an armored deck ; this is no longer stated in the starter rules. Has this been nixed?

3. Third - Is a 1 on a Devastating Damage Die an autobounce, like in a regular Damage Die? Or does Devastating supersede that, and the die causes the 1 damage?

4. Fourth - does the smoke cloud after 3" of movement spawn from the bridge of the ship or from the aft part of the base?

5. Fifth - If a ship's bridge is inside a smoke screen and the ship has no Radar / Advanced Radar, can the ship fire at anything, or is she safe but also blind?

6. If a ship's bridge is in smoke and an enemy plane touches the ship's base, can the plane attack the ship? Or does smoke protect the ship from air attacks as well? Can the ship fire AA at planes, if in smoke?

7. Do plane bases have to respect the same non-overlap rules as any other base?

8. Final question (and assuming that a) ships in smoke are safe from air attack and b) that planes need to respect base non-overlapping rules) - I present to you this hypothetical scenario:



Imagine this (slightly cheesy) arrangement in a Midway-style scenario. The CV's bow is touching the aft of the central DD; the central DD is Laying Smoke and covers the bridge of the CV, making the CV impossible to see. There is no LOS limitation to air operations, so the CV can continue to launch and recover planes as usual.

The central DD is flanked (at base-touching distance, or as close as possible) by two other DDs that are Evading. This only makes it possible for planes attacking from directly ahead to get a hit on the central DD. Also, any planes hitting the flanking DDs must reroll hits because of Evasion (which severely hurts their odds of scoring a final hit).

Now, imagine that there is a whole line of ships stretching behind of the CV, and that the CV is also smoking. Every ship in that line is smoking. And the CVs in that line are spamming fighters for CAP. We essentially have a line of invisible ships, launching planes, and waiting out the scenario clock. The only weak point is the first ship in the line, which is very protected (and hell, if in doubt, just add a second DD to the line, behind it, to take up point duties if it dies).

Obviously, in a scenario with enemy surface ships, said surface ships can focus heavy fire on the first ships and work their way down the line (especially since Line of Sight does not care about other ships body-blocking and allows gunships to fire directly at the center DD). But is this a formation that outright no-sells plane attacks, or are we missing something?

Note that the smoking player does not need to cause any significant damage (and if he needs to, he still has his own planes to dogfight / farm the attackers). All they need to do to win, in this instance, is limit their own losses / wait out the scenario clock (e.g. like the Midway scenario).

Apologies for the wall of text - I hope I've stated my questions in a way that's easy to understand. Looking forward to your reply, and wishing you all the best.

Enioch wrote:
Hello again, fair folks, and apologies for the semi-necro, I have some rules questions for MongooseMatt, if I may, once again?

I'm having some trouble with the interpretation of VaS rules, particularly aircraft performance, smoke, and battles that focus primarily on lots of airplanes attacking lots of ships (think Midway scenario in the beta). Would it be possible to give me an answer to the questions below? There's no rush, but I would like a definitive ruling, so feel free to take your time. It's very possible that these questions have been answered in the final edition of the rulebook, but as we don't have access to that until two months down the road...

1. First and foremost - how do Devastating criticals work? The rules state that a critical is scored on a 5 or a 6 with Dev weapons, and previous wording in the starter rules seems to imply that criticals are not 'scored' until after confirmation. Does this mean that Devastating weapons bypass the confirmation stage, or do we still need a 4+ on a confirmation die to get the crit?

2. Second - do Devastating weapons care at all about target armor? What about Dive bombers and Armored Decks? In the beta, Dive bombers HP damage used to be reduced by the ship's armor if the ship had an armored deck ; this is no longer stated in the starter rules. Has this been nixed?

The Armoured Deck rule in the starter rules states that dive bombers and suicide aircraft have a -1 penalty to their damage dice rolls.

3. Third - Is a 1 on a Devastating Damage Die an autobounce, like in a regular Damage Die? Or does Devastating supersede that, and the die causes the 1 damage?

4. Fourth - does the smoke cloud after 3" of movement spawn from the bridge of the ship or from the aft part of the base?

The rules read "... in contact behind the ship..." That reads as off the stern of the ship to me.

5. Fifth - If a ship's bridge is inside a smoke screen and the ship has no Radar / Advanced Radar, can the ship fire at anything, or is she safe but also blind?

The rule specifically says that no attacks may be made *through* a smoke counter. "Through" typically means in one side and out the other. That would tend to argue that the targeted ship needs to be fully on the far side of the smoke screen marker. Also note that the starter rules don't contain provisions for shooting at targets using radar. That will be in the full rules that are due out next month.

6. If a ship's bridge is in smoke and an enemy plane touches the ship's base, can the plane attack the ship? Or does smoke protect the ship from air attacks as well? Can the ship fire AA at planes, if in smoke?

Planes don't use normal targeting rules. You might be able to argue that a plane can't attack if the section of the ship base that it's in contact with is inside of a smoke screen. But even with that argument, any part of a ship base that is outside of a smoke screen should be fair game. And it would be difficult to completely cover up anything larger than a destroyer with a smoke screen.

7. Do plane bases have to respect the same non-overlap rules as any other base?

The rules about overlapping bases only specify ships. But sanity would dictate that it should apply to aircraft as well. And realistically speaking, aircraft formations do tend to spread out a bit for safety reasons.

8. Final question (and assuming that a) ships in smoke are safe from air attack and b) that planes need to respect base non-overlapping rules) - I present to you this hypothetical scenario:



Imagine this (slightly cheesy) arrangement in a Midway-style scenario. The CV's bow is touching the aft of the central DD; the central DD is Laying Smoke and covers the bridge of the CV, making the CV impossible to see. There is no LOS limitation to air operations, so the CV can continue to launch and recover planes as usual.

The central DD is flanked (at base-touching distance, or as close as possible) by two other DDs that are Evading. This only makes it possible for planes attacking from directly ahead to get a hit on the central DD. Also, any planes hitting the flanking DDs must reroll hits because of Evasion (which severely hurts their odds of scoring a final hit).

Now, imagine that there is a whole line of ships stretching behind of the CV, and that the CV is also smoking. Every ship in that line is smoking. And the CVs in that line are spamming fighters for CAP. We essentially have a line of invisible ships, launching planes, and waiting out the scenario clock. The only weak point is the first ship in the line, which is very protected (and hell, if in doubt, just add a second DD to the line, behind it, to take up point duties if it dies).

I can't speak for the other carriers. But I'll note that most of the smoke counter is not as wide as the base of the USS Essex that I picked up. So even if you had a continuous string of smoke markers, you would still have space on the carrier not covered by a smoke marker, where aircraft could come into contact and initiate an attack even if smoke screens are allowed to interfere with air attacks. Might screw up your defensive anti-aircraft fire from nearby supporting ships, though.

That is a lovely and detailed reply, Eumerin, and thanks for taking the time to answer in the VaS forums as well!

The rules read "... in contact behind the ship..." That reads as off the stern of the ship to me.

Arguably yes, but that definitely clashes with the usual rule of 'the ship exists where its bridge is'. Which is why I want a game author ruling.

"Through" typically means in one side and out the other

So, per your interpretation, a ship inside a smoke screen is not invisible? Interesting. Definitely want a ruling for that, because it definitely sounds counter-intuitive to me.

Also note that the starter rules don't contain provisions for shooting at targets using radar. That will be in the full rules that are due out next month.

Yes, I am aware. We are using beta rules, pending official release.

Planes don't use normal targeting rules

That's what's in question, now, isn't it? Do planes only need to touch the base or do they also need LOS to the ship bridge?

I really appreciate your response, it's well thought-out and matches a lot of my own opinions on the matter but we're both working by our own interpretation of the rules and what

sanity would dictate.

What I need at this point, however, is a 'rules as intended' statement by Matt. :-/

I always want to know the original rule before I start to tinker with it, I guess.

I agree that the "in the smoke screen" argument is up for grabs, and that Matt should probably answer it.

I stand firmly by the others, though, as strict RAW.

Good afternoon, fellow Admirals!

Thank you for the shout out to get me here - always busy before we break up for Christmas, so I haven't been able to do my daily website round up!

Second, my usual caveats - please do not take what I say here as official. Also, I do not have the rulebook to hand, nor the proofing PDF, so I am working off original Word docs, which have changed since they were properly laid out.

Basically, feel free to consider what I say here but do not take it as canon, and I reserve the right to completely change my mind a little later

Enioch wrote:


1. First and foremost - how do Devastating criticals work? The rules state that a critical is scored on a 5 or a 6 with Dev weapons, and previous wording in the starter rules seems to imply that criticals are not 'scored' until after confirmation. Does this mean that Devastating weapons bypass the confirmation stage, or do we still need a 4+ on a confirmation die to get the crit?

Do not confirm, they are automatic. Devastating attacks are devastating.

Enioch wrote:
2. Second - do Devastating weapons care at all about target armor? What about Dive bombers and Armored Decks? In the beta, Dive bombers HP damage used to be reduced by the ship's armor if the ship had an armored deck ; this is no longer stated in the starter rules. Has this been nixed?

Devastating weapons laugh at your puny armour. You will tend to find that targets that should have extra protection against them have additional rules, such as Torpedo Belts. As far as I am aware, Armoured Decks will still reduce Damage Dice in the main rulebook (starter set and main rulebook were effectively working from different Word files).

Enioch wrote:
3. Third - Is a 1 on a Devastating Damage Die an autobounce, like in a regular Damage Die? Or does Devastating supersede that, and the die causes the 1 damage?

Rules as written... strong argument for the bounce, I have to say. Go with that in your games for now, we will review in a FAQ.

Enioch wrote:
4. Fourth - does the smoke cloud after 3" of movement spawn from the bridge of the ship or from the aft part of the base?

Aft of the base. Just pop it behind the ship, nothing complicated should be considered here or, indeed, in any part of the rules - if you are wondering about something in this detail, you are probably overthinking it, if you want to take that as a guideline.

Enioch wrote:
5. Fifth - If a ship's bridge is inside a smoke screen and the ship has no Radar / Advanced Radar, can the ship fire at anything, or is she safe but also blind?

I would go with blind. Could be an irritated Captain on board as well.

Enioch wrote:
6. If a ship's bridge is in smoke and an enemy plane touches the ship's base, can the plane attack the ship? Or does smoke protect the ship from air attacks as well? Can the ship fire AA at planes, if in smoke?

Now, for this one I would want to consult with the ONB, as my only experience here comes from simulations and I don't know of one that handled smoke well. As written, the Flight can attack... and I think that is the way I would lean. When you think about the different angles aircraft can come in at and the visibility advantage they may enjoy from altitude... it feels right.

Enioch wrote:
7. Do plane bases have to respect the same non-overlap rules as any other base?

Yes. The no-overlap rule is a convenience rather than being derived from anything historical. We don't want to stack nicely painted models on top of each other

Enioch wrote:
8. Final question (and assuming that a) ships in smoke are safe from air attack and b) that planes need to respect base non-overlapping rules) - I present to you this hypothetical scenario:

Think this is covered now in the above advice?

Happy sailing!

Thanks Matt, all answers are to the point and make sense!

Looking forward to the final rules, already pre-ordered!