Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Roberts84 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:
OK, I'm not trying start an Ork hate festival here, but [immediately starts Ork hate festiva]

Ghaz is awful. No competitive Ork list will feature him. Your assessment is about as wrong as wrong could be.

For reference, Ragnar has similar damage output (better against certain targets ie - Intercessor squads of more than 5, By screening unit), has far greater durability due to character protection and costs less than half the points.

Edit - if a Tau player cannot avoid a 7"-5" move unit with their flying mech suits that Tau player is not very good. How is this Ghaz' magically getting into combat reliably? Cus he ain't walking I can assure you.

Within two months(of his model release not sure if this has happened yet or not) we will start seeing competitive lists featuring him and winning. I'll sig bet you if you like. Whatever you want.

Do it, I'll set myself a reminder to PM you when you're wrong.

You're not involved. Keep out of it. Unless you want some action too that is.

That is awfully aggressive for an internet argument where everyone agrees that you're wrong. IMO Ghaz will be OK for casual play with a point drop, but there's no way he's doing well at a competitive level.

If you're as sure as you say you are, you'd take the bet.

I don't see what we'd be betting other than being correct or not, but sure.
inb4 Rober84 works at GW and is already drafting up a new Ghaz datasheet

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:
OK, I'm not trying start an Ork hate festival here, but [immediately starts Ork hate festiva]

Ghaz is awful. No competitive Ork list will feature him. Your assessment is about as wrong as wrong could be.

For reference, Ragnar has similar damage output (better against certain targets ie - Intercessor squads of more than 5, By screening unit), has far greater durability due to character protection and costs less than half the points.

Edit - if a Tau player cannot avoid a 7"-5" move unit with their flying mech suits that Tau player is not very good. How is this Ghaz' magically getting into combat reliably? Cus he ain't walking I can assure you.

Within two months(of his model release not sure if this has happened yet or not) we will start seeing competitive lists featuring him and winning. I'll sig bet you if you like. Whatever you want.

Do it, I'll set myself a reminder to PM you when you're wrong.

You're not involved. Keep out of it. Unless you want some action too that is.

That is awfully aggressive for an internet argument where everyone agrees that you're wrong. IMO Ghaz will be OK for casual play with a point drop, but there's no way he's doing well at a competitive level.

If you're as sure as you say you are, you'd take the bet.

I don't see what we'd be betting other than being correct or not, but sure.
inb4 Rober84 works at GW and is already drafting up a new Ghaz datasheet

It's a sig bet. If I win, you have to wear any signature I write for a month. Same deal for me if you win. Well, I wear any signature you write for a month.

Roberts84 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:
OK, I'm not trying start an Ork hate festival here, but [immediately starts Ork hate festiva]

Ghaz is awful. No competitive Ork list will feature him. Your assessment is about as wrong as wrong could be.

For reference, Ragnar has similar damage output (better against certain targets ie - Intercessor squads of more than 5, By screening unit), has far greater durability due to character protection and costs less than half the points.

Edit - if a Tau player cannot avoid a 7"-5" move unit with their flying mech suits that Tau player is not very good. How is this Ghaz' magically getting into combat reliably? Cus he ain't walking I can assure you.

Within two months(of his model release not sure if this has happened yet or not) we will start seeing competitive lists featuring him and winning. I'll sig bet you if you like. Whatever you want.

Do it, I'll set myself a reminder to PM you when you're wrong.

You're not involved. Keep out of it. Unless you want some action too that is.

That is awfully aggressive for an internet argument where everyone agrees that you're wrong. IMO Ghaz will be OK for casual play with a point drop, but there's no way he's doing well at a competitive level.

If you're as sure as you say you are, you'd take the bet.

I don't see what we'd be betting other than being correct or not, but sure.
inb4 Rober84 works at GW and is already drafting up a new Ghaz datasheet

It's a sig bet. If I win, you have to wear any signature I write for a month. Same deal for me if you win.

I barely post, but as long as it goes by the rules of the site, sure.

Roberts84 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:
OK, I'm not trying start an Ork hate festival here, but [immediately starts Ork hate festiva]

Ghaz is awful. No competitive Ork list will feature him. Your assessment is about as wrong as wrong could be.

For reference, Ragnar has similar damage output (better against certain targets ie - Intercessor squads of more than 5, By screening unit), has far greater durability due to character protection and costs less than half the points.

Edit - if a Tau player cannot avoid a 7"-5" move unit with their flying mech suits that Tau player is not very good. How is this Ghaz' magically getting into combat reliably? Cus he ain't walking I can assure you.

Within two months(of his model release not sure if this has happened yet or not) we will start seeing competitive lists featuring him and winning. I'll sig bet you if you like. Whatever you want. That's assuming civilization is continuing.

Write it in your own sig if you like. I don't need to wait 2 months to tell you you're wrong. Here's as assessment by a better Ork player than me on Ghaz (posted before full book was shown by YouTubers, but there's nothing for Ghaz in there anyway);
https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/saga-of-the-beast-preview-faction-focus-orks/
Read his assessment and see what you think.

Also not sure how many competitive events you frequent but they generally don't happen in the middle of a global pandemic.

Just a simple thing for thought: as it was mentioned that one might have to "waste" a lot of firepower etc. on Ghaz, if you (as mentioned before) throw some cheap Guardsmen etc. at him, it's the same the other way around, isn't it? Sure he has incredible 5-7 x S14-S10, AP-4, D4 attacks, but it can likely happen that he gets swarmed by cheapish 1W models and has to waste all his attacks on killing them. And it is quite depressing to have a 300points CC monster have to kill a guardsmen 8 times over with every attack and due to lack of number of attacks he might not even be able to delete one squad per turn this way.

Pyroalchi wrote:
Just a simple thing for thought: as it was mentioned that one might have to "waste" a lot of firepower etc. on Ghaz, if you (as mentioned before) throw some cheap Guardsmen etc. at him, it's the same the other way around, isn't it? Sure he has incredible 5-7 x S14-S10, AP-4, D4 attacks, but it can likely happen that he gets swarmed by cheapish 1W models and has to waste all his attacks on killing them. And it is quite depressing to have a 300points CC monster have to kill a guardsmen 8 times over with every attack and due to lack of number of attacks he might not even be able to delete one squad per turn this way.

And those models aren't holding objectives. You're also giving up points for all the units he's wiping. You could literally just stick him in the middle of the board and control the center for 3 turns while the rest of your units do...well, whatever they need to. Center board control matters. A lot. I do take your point though, against things like Pox Walkers or really anything with garbage mobs he's gonna get tied up. However anyone who says he's not going to be a problem for Tau and space marines armies should basically be dismissed out of hand. Scouts are not suited to that task. I'd say he's a pretty big threat for necrons, too--because they tend to kind of quasi-castle and Basically, anything that doesn't have cheap chaff spam and/or doesn't move much is going to have a really bad day dealing with him. Ditto anything melee-heavy. He's an amazing unit for the points. That will be proven in the coming months.

Roberts84 wrote:

Pyroalchi wrote:
Just a simple thing for thought: as it was mentioned that one might have to "waste" a lot of firepower etc. on Ghaz, if you (as mentioned before) throw some cheap Guardsmen etc. at him, it's the same the other way around, isn't it? Sure he has incredible 5-7 x S14-S10, AP-4, D4 attacks, but it can likely happen that he gets swarmed by cheapish 1W models and has to waste all his attacks on killing them. And it is quite depressing to have a 300points CC monster have to kill a guardsmen 8 times over with every attack and due to lack of number of attacks he might not even be able to delete one squad per turn this way.

And those models aren't holding objectives. You're also giving up points for all the units he's wiping. You could literally just stick him in the middle of the board and control the center for 3 turns while the rest of your units do...well, whatever they need to. Center board control matters. A lot. I do take your point though, against things like Pox Walkers or really anything with garbage mobs he's gonna get tied up. However anyone who says he's not going to be a problem for Tau and space marines armies should basically be dismissed out of hand. Scouts are not suited to that task. I'd say he's a pretty big threat for necrons, too--because they tend to kind of quasi-castle and Basically, anything that doesn't have cheap chaff spam and/or doesn't move much is going to have a really bad day dealing with him.

You *could* stick him in the centre and control it for 3 turns. But unfortunately most armies have objective secured under another name, which will likely put a dampener in any hopes of Ghaz controlling any objective against good tarpitting units afaik. Also I'm pretty sure that space marines would be an army with a relatively easy time dealing with Ghaz since they are definitely capable of dealing 4 wounds a round in shooting and melee. That leaves Ghaz with one round of combat to do nearly 300 points of damage, assuming the SM playing isn't bringing psykers.

 kastelen wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

Pyroalchi wrote:
Just a simple thing for thought: as it was mentioned that one might have to "waste" a lot of firepower etc. on Ghaz, if you (as mentioned before) throw some cheap Guardsmen etc. at him, it's the same the other way around, isn't it? Sure he has incredible 5-7 x S14-S10, AP-4, D4 attacks, but it can likely happen that he gets swarmed by cheapish 1W models and has to waste all his attacks on killing them. And it is quite depressing to have a 300points CC monster have to kill a guardsmen 8 times over with every attack and due to lack of number of attacks he might not even be able to delete one squad per turn this way.

And those models aren't holding objectives. You're also giving up points for all the units he's wiping. You could literally just stick him in the middle of the board and control the center for 3 turns while the rest of your units do...well, whatever they need to. Center board control matters. A lot. I do take your point though, against things like Pox Walkers or really anything with garbage mobs he's gonna get tied up. However anyone who says he's not going to be a problem for Tau and space marines armies should basically be dismissed out of hand. Scouts are not suited to that task. I'd say he's a pretty big threat for necrons, too--because they tend to kind of quasi-castle and Basically, anything that doesn't have cheap chaff spam and/or doesn't move much is going to have a really bad day dealing with him.

You *could* stick him in the centre and control it for 3 turns. But unfortunately most armies have objective secured under another name, which will likely put a dampener in any hopes of Ghaz controlling any objective against good tarpitting units afaik. Also I'm pretty sure that space marines would be an army with a relatively easy time dealing with Ghaz since they are definitely capable of dealing 4 wounds a round in shooting and melee. That leaves Ghaz with one round of combat to do nearly 300 points of damage, assuming the SM playing isn't bringing psykers.

With a 4+ invuln and T7? Not really. He'll take a lot of plinking, and while that's happening, other stuff is doing other stuff. What units are you talking about, exactly? Intercessors? Because that's what everyone is going to be taking. He'll wipe out ten of them in the fight back-phase guaranteed. They might not even take off two wounds from him with chainswords which is what they're going to be kitted out with.

People are thinking in a far too lineal way about him.

On the other Hand there are far more phases you can make damage to him than you would think... just from an IG Point of view:

IG Turn:
before the game starts: preliminary bombardment for 1/2 mortal wound
Shooting Phase (obvious, by the way a normal Leman Russ (not even a tank commander) without any orders, rerolls, stratagems or doctrines with battlecannon, Plasma Sponsons and a Lascannon does 5 wounds to him for 174 Points if I'm not wrong)
Psychic Phase: a singly Primaris Psyker can well do 4 wounds between Smite and Psychic Maelstrom.
Charge Phase: with the new Psychic awakening stratagem each charging Ogryn/Bullgryn has a 50% Chance of doing a mortal wound, Tanks in an Emperors fist Company can do D3 Mortals
Fight Phase: the Basic 3 Bullgryn Squad does on average 4 wounds to him

Enemy turn:
Movement Phase: when Ghaz arrives from Tellyporta it should be possible to shoot him with Scions with the superior Intelligence stratagem
Shooting Phase: destroyed vehicles (especially Hellhounds) can do Mortals
Charge Phase: Vicious Traps Stratagem has 50% Chance of D3 wounds
fight Phase: damage from exploding vehicles and potentially "fire on my Position" if he kills infantry squads with Vox.

That's quite a few ways of damaging him and I'm sure there are more.

 vict0988 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I think if you're playing an army that has good options for dealinf damage in every Phase of your turn, you shouldn't have any issues with Ghaz. It you're rocking Tau? Yeah, you might have some problems. But then you just change up your game plan, like everyone has to do when your opponent fields something that's "too tough to crack". You work on killing off the easy stuff to kill (and this is Orkz, so that's basically everything) and holding Objectives. If you ignore Ghaz, or tie him up with even a kind of expensive unit (you really just need about 10 models to hold him for a round, so about 170 pts for Intercessors), you're effectively playing a 2k vs 1700 pt game.

I don't think smart Tau should have any problems with Ghaz. They have enough useful Melee units to finish him in my experience...

Completely disagree, it takes 108 advanced targeting system melee attacks from Crisis (each Commander attack being worth 2 normal Crisis attacks) or 72 advanced targeting system melee attacks from Riptides to deal 4 damage to Ghaz, that's basically never going to happen. Kroot have 1 attack making them basically a shooting unit and Hounds wound on 6+ with no AP. Against Tau Ghaz is going to be unstoppable, not sure if he'll be an actual good pick despite that, he can still be tar-pitted by Shield Drones but destroying him is probably more hassle than it's worth. I wouldn't say tar-pitting him with Primaris is a good idea, that sounds like a good way to let Ghaz make himself useful. Wait until T3 and rock Assault Doctrine and 10 BA Intercessors do 4 unsaved wounds to Ghaz, same with 10 WS Intercessors. A RG thunderhammer Intercessor does 3 damage to Ghaz in Tactical Doctrine, between Overwatch and other melee damage you should be able to do another damage so you just need a total of 8 wounds with shooting. Armies shouldn't rely on dealing all their damage with Smite and not have the mobility to move around a smite screen, besides Grots are way more effective at screening smites than Ghaz and Thousand Sons have more powers available now with their free specialist detachments.

I mean, Fusion Blades on a Coldstar reduce those numbers by an amount. But that's only happening if he's almost dead and Tau have a Farsight detachment.(unlikely)

I think I should have been clearer though. Tau have good units for dealing with a melee threat like Ghaz. 80 points of Kroot + whatever he hit first doesn't make a favorable trade for Orks. Especially for 4 rounds of play. And he shouldn't be getting anywhere near valuable stuff.

To those saying it is bad game design... I disagree, it is bloody great game design, as it is requiring you to think and plan and change how you play instead of resorting to the same point and click methods you are used to.

To Roberts84... thread like this are why Dakkadakka has a bad reputation, and why I am only venturing away from the Painting boards due to Corona boredom.

What you are saying is fine, even though I disagree, but the way you are saying it is horrible.

I'm sure you'll tell yourself that either I am wrong, or that everyone else is just as bad, but ask yourself this... Why would I, a neutral party who has, to the best of my recollection, never interacted with you before, say this?

I mean, I've seen worse on Dakka, but this is not good.

Roberts84 wrote: With a 4+ invuln and T7? Not really. He'll take a lot of plinking, and while that's happening, other stuff is doing other stuff. What units are you talking about, exactly? Intercessors? Because that's what everyone is going to be taking. He'll wipe out ten of them in the fight back-phase guaranteed. They might not even take off two wounds from him with chainswords which is what they're going to be kitted out with.

People are thinking in a far too lineal way about him.

As a Nid player, T7 with 4++ is NOT hard to land damage on, in a 2k list i'd expect to lose a hive tyrant + another MC a turn at the minimum. Hell the other play will max the 4 and then that fire power is dismantling the rest of your list without a 4++ to soak up the damage!

Seems to me you're so obsessed with one rule of Ghaz (the 4 wounds per phase) and are going absolutely nuts proclaiming the sky is falling and he will run rampant competitively whilst ignoring all valid counter points. And believe me you really are alone in this thread debating Ghaz is competitive. He's fun, he'll do some damage in casual and then be easily figured out how to handle.

Dude, relax. Coming in here all fire and brimstone and being aggressively argumentative will change no ones view. I can't even work out what you hoped to gain from this post.

 Fifty wrote:
To those saying it is bad game design... I disagree, it is bloody great game design, as it is requiring you to think and plan and change how you play instead of resorting to the same point and click methods you are used to.

You mean I can’t just kamikaze a smash captain into him to kill him? How dare you suggest I need to plan with slightly more nuance. What kind of game do you think you’re playing?

In all seriousness I like this rule with a unit over 10+ wounds. It cuts down on some of the crazy things like knights, smash captains, or insert deep strike and delete strategies. Even better is that you usually can’t use a fight after death ability to take him down with you. The only time I see it being bad is if he’s in a mirror matchup. Two Ghaz’s fighting each other will need at least three turns to kill each other.

I'm confused. This is the 40K Proposed Rule forum, not 40K General. Is someone going to actually propose a rule to discuss?

How long do you think it will take for him to renege on his bet by finding some obscure local tournament that has Ghaz in one of the "top" winning lists to validate his (wrong) opinion and then disregard everything else like ITC or LVO results? I mean he hasnt given an actual rebuttal or counter point to other people besides ad hominems so why would he actually follow through with his bet?

I really don't like the "can only do X wounds a turn" thing, but aside from that, with Ghaz at 12 wounds (and somehow growing to be bigger than a Primarch) he's much more easily engaged than most characters, and doesn't really do much that a much cheaper Warboss won't do.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

Roberts84 wrote: With a 4+ invuln and T7? Not really. He'll take a lot of plinking, and while that's happening, other stuff is doing other stuff. What units are you talking about, exactly? Intercessors? Because that's what everyone is going to be taking. He'll wipe out ten of them in the fight back-phase guaranteed. They might not even take off two wounds from him with chainswords which is what they're going to be kitted out with.

People are thinking in a far too lineal way about him.

As a Nid player, T7 with 4++ is NOT hard to land damage on, in a 2k list i'd expect to lose a hive tyrant + another MC a turn at the minimum. Hell the other play will max the 4 and then that fire power is dismantling the rest of your list without a 4++ to soak up the damage!

Seems to me you're so obsessed with one rule of Ghaz (the 4 wounds per phase) and are going absolutely nuts proclaiming the sky is falling and he will run rampant competitively whilst ignoring all valid counter points. And believe me you really are alone in this thread debating Ghaz is competitive. He's fun, he'll do some damage in casual and then be easily figured out how to handle.

Dude, relax. Coming in here all fire and brimstone and being aggressively argumentative will change no ones view. I can't even work out what you hoped to gain from this post.

He hoped to get exactly this argument, like many of us he’s probably at home and bored. Personally I can’t believe I’ve read through this whole pointless thread! Then posted!!

All models have a hard cap on how many wounds they can take. This often leads to wasted shots. Sure, most models are removed from the table for the rest of the game after receiving this number of wounds, but not all of them. Guilliman among overs can take a hard cap number of wounds and keep fighting.

Hell, keeping fighting after losing all wounds is a strat that already exists in the ork codex. Ghazghkull just takes it up a level.

He’ll kill maybe 5-7 models per combat phase. All the rule does is allow him a chance at two combat phases before he dies. From that perspective the rule does exactly what it was designed to do, awkward as it may be.

Please bring Ghaz against my DA list. I always appreciate it when my opponent shoots themself in both knees before the game starts.

OP is the new Xenomancers.

Ghaz is currently so OP that standing upstairs or behind a ruin defeats him
The only army I can think of that would struggle with Ghaz is pure IK, as they would have inefficient guns and melee for plinking 4 wounds off, but they could still outrun him.

I have been Farsight Enclaves Tau for a while, I do not think that I would field fusion blades in a tournament. And if I saw Ghaz, it would be a nice challenge to pop him in less than 3 turns.

I am not sure why someone has their panties in a bunch over a 300pt model. Its good, but I'm far more worried about a leviathan dreadnought. Turn 1, I could lose 8 drones to that dread! If Ghaz walks, I'm ignoring him after I devote enough guns to give him 4 wounds. That's what 1/10th my army? If he teleports, I'm assuming there's a 30 Ork Da Jump that's charging first... then I'm gonna get worried for a moment. Then its back to kiting him while dealing with more Da Jumps each turn.

I think the mechanic is nice, maybe instead there should be a stratagem that for 1cp or 2cp, if this is the first time a model would die, it instead does not die and continues play with 1 wound. 8th edition everything dies too quickly, and some times its a better game when not everything is tissue paper.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
I have been Farsight Enclaves Tau for a while, I do not think that I would field fusion blades in a tournament. And if I saw Ghaz, it would be a nice challenge to pop him in less than 3 turns.

I am not sure why someone has their panties in a bunch over a 300pt model. Its good, but I'm far more worried about a leviathan dreadnought. Turn 1, I could lose 8 drones to that dread! If Ghaz walks, I'm ignoring him after I devote enough guns to give him 4 wounds. That's what 1/10th my army? If he teleports, I'm assuming there's a 30 Ork Da Jump that's charging first... then I'm gonna get worried for a moment. Then its back to kiting him while dealing with more Da Jumps each turn.

I think the mechanic is nice, maybe instead there should be a stratagem that for 1cp or 2cp, if this is the first time a model would die, it instead does not die and continues play with 1 wound. 8th edition everything dies too quickly, and some times its a better game when not everything is tissue paper.

I agree offense is too high, but Ghaz's rule is a band-aid. I'd rather a general toning down of offense on the whole than individual quick-fixes.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
I have been Farsight Enclaves Tau for a while, I do not think that I would field fusion blades in a tournament. And if I saw Ghaz, it would be a nice challenge to pop him in less than 3 turns.

I am not sure why someone has their panties in a bunch over a 300pt model. Its good, but I'm far more worried about a leviathan dreadnought. Turn 1, I could lose 8 drones to that dread! If Ghaz walks, I'm ignoring him after I devote enough guns to give him 4 wounds. That's what 1/10th my army? If he teleports, I'm assuming there's a 30 Ork Da Jump that's charging first... then I'm gonna get worried for a moment. Then its back to kiting him while dealing with more Da Jumps each turn.

I think the mechanic is nice, maybe instead there should be a stratagem that for 1cp or 2cp, if this is the first time a model would die, it instead does not die and continues play with 1 wound. 8th edition everything dies too quickly, and some times its a better game when not everything is tissue paper.

I agree offense is too high, but Ghaz's rule is a band-aid. I'd rather a general toning down of offense on the whole than individual quick-fixes.

That'll be 9th edition if 8th isn't going to be a living ruleset for the future. For a while they had a nice balance in 4th edition and early 5th. Until deathstars...

A hard cap on how much damage a single model can take feel like the worst kind of immersion-breaking gamey mechanic.

Not that it's necessarily overpowered or anything. It's just another step away from any semblance of verisimilitude/simulation.

Maybe they should have made Ghaz so that 1. 9 wounds, so he can't be targeted unless closest, and 2. Once per game when Ghaz takes his last wound, immediately place him in combat with the closest legal opponent unit, ghaz fights first, and has 1d3 wounds remaining. That would make him worth 300pts.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Maybe they should have made Ghaz so that 1. 9 wounds, so he can't be targeted unless closest, and 2. Once per game when Ghaz takes his last wound, immediately place him in combat with the closest legal opponent unit, ghaz fights first, and has 1d3 wounds remaining. That would make him worth 300pts.

I'd make it closest legal opponent within 6" or so.

Otherwise, he could (in theory) teleport clear across the map to engage the Leman Russ that just blasted him from 40" away, if everything else was dead.

Imagine thinking ghaz is even remotely strong in a world where tremor shells exist

There's only one single world in which Ghaz is good.

You bring him and nothing but Morkanauts. Rush them all down the table. If any of the models touch you, I automatically win.

As literally everyone else has said, he's not OP. T7 and invul 4 is not difficult to get through. The only feel bad with his four wound max is if you shoot a lascanon at him and roll a 5-6 instead of a 4. Big whoop

Roberts84 wrote:
OK, I'm not trying start an Ork hate festival here, but Ghaz is flat-out broken. I'm also reading his data from saga of the beast from Belle of lost souls, so if this has been redacted or something I apologize. Just going on the information I have.

Firstly, no unit in the game should ever have a cap on how many wounds they can take per phase. This literally breaks the system, because anything attacking him will have to gamble wasting firepower on him due to the very real--indeed, probable, outcome that they will waste wounds should they exceed that cap. This is compounded by the fact that because he's got a 4+ invuln and 12 wounds (Holy gak BTW) that enemies will have to sink lots of attacks into him. Add to this a 6+ FNP with a banner and it gets even more bananas. Oh--and he's fething T7 along for the bargain.

12W hidden behind invul 4++ and 6+++ fnp, is weaksauce in current shooty meta, its really not much...

HOWEVER, maxium 4 wounds per phase is so retaarded, its undescribeable, so eldar as a prime example is gonna have it fairly easy, where as World eaters, Blood Angels, Wolves, Tau, generally lists and/or armies that are focusing on 1 phase mainly are gonna struggle the rule is gonna be such a pain in the ass, like free fallback levels of stupid, and in small points games, lord have mercy with that godmode mechanic. They shoud have given him 3++ invul with 5+++ fnp instead. Atleast it would seem like they tried making rules instead of breaking them.