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Oh of course, but it's been that way since the start of 4th Ed.

Besides, pick a random army in 40K right now (besides Marines, Necrons and Deathwatch). That army isn't getting their 9th Ed book for another 2-3 years.

It's not like the start of 8th where the new rule set was completely incompatible with the last one, so they had to get the new Codices out quicksmart so everyone could keep playing (the entire reason the Indices existed).

Here there's no rush, as 9th is just a bit patch to 8th, so if your army draws the short straw in the re-write pipeline, be prepared to be using it for some time.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, if only they had supposedly been planning PA and 9th edition for years and hadn't been forced to line it up so that Necrons would get the last PA book. But alas, God decreed on the 8th day that "Necrons will be first to get a new codex in 9th and last to get a PA update, deal with it gee-dubs!"

You could look at that way. But GW has stated they see PA as both a rules update and a background launchpad into 9th Edition. So holding the Necrons to the last chapter was actually intentional. Pariah leads right into the Indomitus box and the focus point for the edition launch.

Basically, there goals are different than you think they are, so the results look odd.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I kinda suspect the whole "old codexes and PA books will still be valid" thing is just a "please continue buying our old books at full price!" plea more than it actually reflects reality. Just like "the indexes are still valid even after the codex is released," was, until they weren't any more.

Not only that, they also said PA books were designed with 9th in mind. Its a lie. In faith&fury AL can get up to -5 to hit on a chaos lord, or -4 on a disco lord, or any other character. But 9th caps it at -1. Also, in faith&fury IW gets a warlord trait where units within 6" of the warlord ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons. In 9th, only infantry suffers the penalty, making that warlord trait almost useless. Only CSM will benefit from that warlord trait.

 p5freak wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I kinda suspect the whole "old codexes and PA books will still be valid" thing is just a "please continue buying our old books at full price!" plea more than it actually reflects reality. Just like "the indexes are still valid even after the codex is released," was, until they weren't any more.

Not only that, they also said PA books were designed with 9th in mind. Its a lie. In faith&fury AL can get up to -5 to hit on a chaos lord, or -4 on a disco lord, or any other character. But 9th caps it at -1. Also, in faith&fury IW gets a warlord trait where units within 6" of the warlord ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons. In 9th, only infantry suffers the penalty, making that warlord trait almost useless. Only CSM will benefit from that warlord trait.

So what I take from that is a warlord trait that does work in 9th but isn't very good, and if you go out of your way to force marginal fringe cases stacking - to hit, then it has limited benefit in 9th but still functions as a -5 cancels out a +5. Plus that's your choice to make them have such an unnecessary modifier.

Nothing they said about that book working in 9th is a lie.

 p5freak wrote:
Its a lie. In faith&fury AL can get up to -5 to hit on a chaos lord, or -4 on a disco lord, or any other character.

It's not a lie. It's Hanlon's Razor. Do you honestly think anyone at GW writing that book understood how you could stack bonuses like that? And if they did understand that, do you think their immediate next thought wasn't "But no one actually plays like that. Everyone just forges the narrative like we do here at the studio!" and then took a 3 hour lunch?

 GaroRobe wrote:
I guess when the book was written, we weren't supposed to know about Idomitus. But it's funny that the old necron warriors and monolith are featured. Not surprisingly, the immortals are shown with the bronze color scheme. Once the new edition drops, all the older necron models will most likely be shown in bronze, like how the Tau went from orange to white as the poster boys.

eh with june for original pariah release date and july for 9th ed 9th would be known anyway by the time pariah was coming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

Kdash wrote:Wow... So we all knew Necrons would get an update early after the launch of 9th, but damn they got shafted in this series.

This isn't a 'shaft,' this is a pure advantage. No necron player has to pay for the PA errata. They just get to look forward to a hopefully much improved codex (it can't be much worse than the current one).

Not being saddled with a PA book is just a win

Except you end up with less stratagems etc. Note PA books won't be fully incorporated into new codexes. So necrons are good for a while...and when factions with PA gets new codex they will have new codex AND more rules in PA.

So as usual factions with new stuff at the end and/or start of new edition gets shafted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Whatever they got in PA would have just been rolled into the subsequent codex anyway, so I suspect they just chose to cut out the middle man.

Eeeh...No. GW has flat out said all PA content WILL NOT BE ROLLED OVER into codex.

This means that while some will to have all the rules you need both new codex(whenever it comes) AND PA book.

Except Stu flat out said yesterday on 40k daily that the reason there is little content in PA for Necrons is because the new codex is 'not a million miles away' and so it made little sense to put loads of new rules in Pariah.

So I think it is fair to say that whatever the necrons would have got with Pariah will be in their codex.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Except Stu flat out said yesterday on 40k daily that the reason there is little content in PA for Necrons is because the new codex is 'not a million miles away' and so it made little sense to put loads of new rules in Pariah.

So I think it is fair to say that whatever the necrons would have got with Pariah will be in their codex.

Which means they would either have gotten less in PA to begin with(so behind the curve) or somehow necrons get bigger share(100%) of PA to codex when rest don't get all...So either behind curve or illogical solution.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh of course, but it's been that way since the start of 4th Ed.

Besides, pick a random army in 40K right now (besides Marines, Necrons and Deathwatch). That army isn't getting their 9th Ed book for another 2-3 years.

It's not like the start of 8th where the new rule set was completely incompatible with the last one, so they had to get the new Codices out quicksmart so everyone could keep playing (the entire reason the Indices existed).

Here there's no rush, as 9th is just a bit patch to 8th, so if your army draws the short straw in the re-write pipeline, be prepared to be using it for some time.

Honestly, I think they'll pump out a new book a quarter just like they do with AoS. It's an easy way for them to rake in profits and fits with the modern more savvy GW. It keeps the meta unsettled and pushes people to buy the new thing every few months as opposed to every few years.

Tbh, I feel bad for those who have bought/are buying the books, but from a balance perspective it would almost certainly be better to take PA and burn it all. Push all the custom traits, chapter specific psychic powers and so in into legends as the inevitable new round of codexes rolls out. Start again with a clean slate to re do chapters, psychic powers, stratagems etc - where obviously you can take what worked, but you don't drag around all the stuff that didn't.

Wouldn't bet on it though - and frankly, if they wanted to port all of PA across, for most factions we are talking about expanding their codexes by about 4 pages. Really not breaking the bank.

I can't see who is going to buy Pariah. Even if 9th edition wasn't weeks away, this seems totally irrelevant to everything. How this didn't end up being a white dwarf release is therefore beyond me - but I guess maybe things weren't meant to be squished together.

Really I think Psychic Awakening has been a bad series.

You can compare it with the Gathering Storm books I guess - but I think those generated more hype, because of the perceived gameplay and lore changes they heralded. They told a story, despite how people complained it was all Saturday cartoons. By contrast PA has really lacked any coherent narrative. "There are guys fighting here, but yeah, no one really wins, no one really loses."

I'm suspect we will ever see half of these battlefields again - and am certainly not convinced they will meaningfully impact the wider meta plot, if indeed there is one to begin with.

Even if it's one book a quarter, that's still a few years for some armies.

This is why Psychic Awakening exists, to update all the armies ('cept Sisters, it seems, and Necrons, but we know why for them) for 9th Ed. So if Custodes or Mechanicus don't get their new book until 2023, they've at least had big updates recently, be it with new units or the inclusion of Sisters of Silence.

One way that I saw it was that if Necrons get this big rules overhaul they talked about, any rules in that book would have to be written for 8th, then invalidated when the codex drops

And the probably don't want to write it based on the new stuff so it doesn't give anything away, if it would even work in 8th

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Even if it's one book a quarter, that's still a few years for some armies.

This is why Psychic Awakening exists, to update all the armies ('cept Sisters, it seems, and Necrons, but we know why for them) for 9th Ed. So if Custodes or Mechanicus don't get their new book until 2023, they've at least had big updates recently, be it with new units or the inclusion of Sisters of Silence.

I think its highly unlikely GW will release one book a quarter.
Its been more like one book a month since 8th. I don't know who is buying them all - but if its working, I don't see why they'd change that.

Could be totally wrong, but I'd expect there to be an awful lot of 9th edition codexes released before the end of 2021.

But then I think PA has been a failure - while the business seems to have gone from strength to strength. So perhaps it will all be "PA2, Vigilus Reloaded".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh of course, but it's been that way since the start of 4th Ed.

Besides, pick a random army in 40K right now (besides Marines, Necrons and Deathwatch). That army isn't getting their 9th Ed book for another 2-3 years.

It's not like the start of 8th where the new rule set was completely incompatible with the last one, so they had to get the new Codices out quicksmart so everyone could keep playing (the entire reason the Indices existed).

Here there's no rush, as 9th is just a bit patch to 8th, so if your army draws the short straw in the re-write pipeline, be prepared to be using it for some time.

oh god, please, no, don't let me get to use the codex I purchased for a long time....that sounds awful...

Tyel wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Even if it's one book a quarter, that's still a few years for some armies.

This is why Psychic Awakening exists, to update all the armies ('cept Sisters, it seems, and Necrons, but we know why for them) for 9th Ed. So if Custodes or Mechanicus don't get their new book until 2023, they've at least had big updates recently, be it with new units or the inclusion of Sisters of Silence.

I think its highly unlikely GW will release one book a quarter.
Its been more like one book a month since 8th. I don't know who is buying them all - but if its working, I don't see why they'd change that.

Could be totally wrong, but I'd expect there to be an awful lot of 9th edition codexes released before the end of 2021.

But then I think PA has been a failure - while the business seems to have gone from strength to strength. So perhaps it will all be "PA2, Vigilus Reloaded".

except with 8th they made all codexes useless, so they wanted to pump out books faster so everybody could have a codex as fast as possible. This isn't needed this time, so they can do more codex releases like in the past, so a new codex with a couple of kits


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh of course, but it's been that way since the start of 4th Ed.

Besides, pick a random army in 40K right now (besides Marines, Necrons and Deathwatch). That army isn't getting their 9th Ed book for another 2-3 years.

It's not like the start of 8th where the new rule set was completely incompatible with the last one, so they had to get the new Codices out quicksmart so everyone could keep playing (the entire reason the Indices existed).

Here there's no rush, as 9th is just a bit patch to 8th, so if your army draws the short straw in the re-write pipeline, be prepared to be using it for some time.

I think harlequins will get a new codex fairly soon in 9th edition as well, seeing how their PA is a white dwarf article. Besides that I think gw will release more codices in 2-3 years

Lexicanum maintains a list of codices and has the release dates to boot.
Indices came out June 2017. The first Codex was Space Marines in July.

If they don't need to do large model releases or if they plan them around something like the Sisters and Lumineth Army Packs or what we're seeing for Necrons and the new Marine stuff, we could still see two codices a month with accompanying models without it being too overwhelming on their logistics side of things.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Lexicanum maintains a list of codices and has the release dates to boot.
Indices came out June 2017. The first Codex was Space Marines in July.

If they don't need to do large model releases or if they plan them around something like the Sisters and Lumineth Army Packs or what we're seeing for Necrons and the new Marine stuff, we could still see two codices a month with accompanying models without it being too overwhelming on their logistics side of things.

if they only had 40k, sure. But they have a second big game, one a little smaller and a bunch of side games that get support as well

They're discussing Inquisitors in the Pariah book today rather than 9th. Well done GW.

At one point he actually said that Inquisitors have "total freedom to do what is necessary". That made me laugh given that Inquisitors are one of the most hamstrung lists when it comes to weapon options and actual choices.

 p5freak wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I kinda suspect the whole "old codexes and PA books will still be valid" thing is just a "please continue buying our old books at full price!" plea more than it actually reflects reality. Just like "the indexes are still valid even after the codex is released," was, until they weren't any more.

Not only that, they also said PA books were designed with 9th in mind. Its a lie. In faith&fury AL can get up to -5 to hit on a chaos lord, or -4 on a disco lord, or any other character. But 9th caps it at -1. Also, in faith&fury IW gets a warlord trait where units within 6" of the warlord ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons. In 9th, only infantry suffers the penalty, making that warlord trait almost useless. Only CSM will benefit from that warlord trait.

I have to agree with this statement. If you are developing rules with 9th in the back of your mind, you would not have created this warlord trait (Stoic Advance). In 8th, I might use this trait around Vindicators, helbrutes, etc. In 9th, I don't need to. Havocs don't need it as they already ignore this rule. Literally the only unit it could possibly apply to is Chaos Space Marines who have taken a heavy weapon.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Its a lie. In faith&fury AL can get up to -5 to hit on a chaos lord, or -4 on a disco lord, or any other character.

It's not a lie. It's Hanlon's Razor. Do you honestly think anyone at GW writing that book understood how you could stack bonuses like that? And if they did understand that, do you think their immediate next thought wasn't "But no one actually plays like that. Everyone just forges the narrative like we do here at the studio!" and then took a 3 hour lunch?

Hell, you can't even do a -2 to hit now from just one of the Warlord Traits!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Its a lie. In faith&fury AL can get up to -5 to hit on a chaos lord, or -4 on a disco lord, or any other character.

It's not a lie. It's Hanlon's Razor. Do you honestly think anyone at GW writing that book understood how you could stack bonuses like that? And if they did understand that, do you think their immediate next thought wasn't "But no one actually plays like that. Everyone just forges the narrative like we do here at the studio!" and then took a 3 hour lunch?

Hell, you can't even do a -2 to hit now from just one of the Warlord Traits!

But your oppnent can do a +1, leaving you on a -1 net

PA has been a bit of a dud in reality, what did we get models wise?

Jain Zar and Banshees...to be fair, nice models but rules let them down.
Drazhar and Incubi...as above, although I hear Drazhar significantly improved. Not familiar enough to comment.
New Mephiston...nice model and choice.
New Chaos Sorcerer....really?
Lazarus...Nice model, although I feel many DA fans would have preferred an update to existing character
New Shadowsun....OK, I guess?
New Ghazkul....yeah, he's a beast, nice job there.
New Ragnar...like mephiston, nice model,, good choice.
Admech updates....probably biggest winner model wise?
New Fabious Bile...OK? Nice model, just not sure how popular he will be.
Ephrael Stern and Kyganil...Rules will dictate inclusion
New Inquisitor...Like the model, and since an integral part of series, good choice.
New Szeras...also nice model, overshadowed by other new nice necron models however.

So there are some decent updates, but they definitely over promised and under delivered in the time frame for these books.

Rules wise, the series has been completely schizophrenic.

Dudeface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Its a lie. In faith&fury AL can get up to -5 to hit on a chaos lord, or -4 on a disco lord, or any other character.

It's not a lie. It's Hanlon's Razor. Do you honestly think anyone at GW writing that book understood how you could stack bonuses like that? And if they did understand that, do you think their immediate next thought wasn't "But no one actually plays like that. Everyone just forges the narrative like we do here at the studio!" and then took a 3 hour lunch?

Hell, you can't even do a -2 to hit now from just one of the Warlord Traits!

But your oppnent can do a +1, leaving you on a -1 net

You're missing the grant point as +1 to hit isn't a common occurrence.

Well here's the Pariah article on Inquisitors.

There are some new things in there that weren't in the WD article it seems (aside from the new Inquisitor Lady).





















The "pick your Smite target" thing is pretty cool. Love that the Inquisitor's shuriken catapult is better than the standard Eldar one.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Love that the Inquisitor's shuriken catapult is better than the standard Eldar one.

While it is inventible better than an standard Shuriken Catapult since they don't give characters "special" stock weapons, it's really just a (non-existing) Master-Crafted Avenger Shuriken Catapult with a fancy name.

Yeah I'm actually pleasantly surprised. It appears you can have a whole retinue (acolytes, jokaero, daemonhost) without breaking your monofaction bonuses (whereas before that was only the case when you JUST included an inquisitor--I think?)

So Pariah is a reprinting of the (pathetic) WD Inquisition rules, three characters and a couple different places you could theme your battles in?

Who is going to pay for this?

Quasistellar wrote:
Yeah I'm actually pleasantly surprised. It appears you can have a whole retinue (acolytes, jokaero, daemonhost) without breaking your monofaction bonuses (whereas before that was only the case when you JUST included an inquisitor--I think?)

Yeah thats good news

Quasistellar wrote:
Yeah I'm actually pleasantly surprised. It appears you can have a whole retinue (acolytes, jokaero, daemonhost) without breaking your monofaction bonuses (whereas before that was only the case when you JUST included an inquisitor--I think?)

Yeah, this is what I was hoping for, and it's awesome. I can finally take my crazy monkey circus with my sisters and not nerf them.

 Sabotage! wrote:
So Pariah is a reprinting of the (pathetic) WD Inquisition rules, three characters and a couple different places you could theme your battles in?

Who is going to pay for this?

Actually, I am, although I won't contain my somewhat disappointment with the content. However, I do plan to use Stern/Kyganil, have Inquisitors and mostly just want to see how they wrap this circus up fluff wise. Won't be the best use of $40, but probably not my worst either.