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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Somehow I don't have much sympathy for the 'victims' of such unscrupulous business.

Eh yes and no.

It's easy to have no sympathies until you realise that many of those looking to make money through these schemes will specifically target more vulnerable people more easily misled.
When its Flat Earth its basically harmless since in the grand scheme of things what shape you think the Earth is doesn't really matter. It's one that only becomes a risk if it gets large scale since it goes beyond just ignorance and well into distrust of science - which in itself can bleed into other areas that are more serious.

However when it starts becoming something like Homeopathy* targeting those with serious/life threatening/changing sickness then it can become far more serious. Then you've got a situation where people are desperate/fearful and can suffer life long and life ending harm.


*The original kind where its "water memory" curing and such. I'm aware that in latter years Homeopathy has branched out to include a lot of herbal remedies in order to give itself some chance to survive beyond placebo effect.

Separate issue. We tell businesses 'your sole purpose is to make money and morals are secondary' then are somehow surprised by the result. Are they going to capitalize and encourage conspiracy theories to take money from fools? You bet. They are targeting the easiest demographic to take money from.

It maybe their behavior toward conspiracies is part of a larger conspiracy...?

When it comes to Woo peddlers such as David “Avocado*” Wolfe and his ilk, what really brings me down is their whole “big pharma only want munneh”.....whilst peddling and charging through the nose for all sorts of mumbo jumbo drivel and nonsense.

How can people not see straight through that?

I mean, if you want to do Yoga, use “crystal salt lamps” and other stuff, cool, go for it. Ain’t gonna harm anyone.

But when absolute crap like “Jilly Juice” is promoted, it’s actively harmful. It won’t.....
1. “Cure” homosexuality
2. Regenerate lost limbs
3. “Cure” autism**
4. Cure cancer
5. Reverse ageing

But it absolutely can kill you, due to the ridiculous level of salt.

And when a cancer patient stopped all other treatment and consumption in favour of Jilly Juice? She. Doubled. Down

Wiki snippet (yes, I know. But it’s cited! wrote: Death of Bruce Wilmot[edit]
In the summer of 2017, Bruce Wilmot, who was diagnosed with metastatic pancreatic cancer, began taking Jilly Juice.[5] Wilmot's daughter Taylor described him as "emaciated", and stated that he "was drinking so much of it, he was basically starving himself. It was all coming out as diarrhea."[1]

On July 20, 2017, about a month after he began drinking Jilly Juice, Bruce Wilmot died.[1][5] Epperly responded to his death in a video by saying that Wilmot did not consume enough Jilly Juice, stating that he "really should have kept going", and that his medications, his consumption of pineapple juice, or the medical industry may have contributed to his death.[1][5] Epperly later wrote that she "can't be held accountable" for deaths resulting from her product, and that "correlation does not mean causation."[5]

That folks, is a total lack of morals. And she is not alone in such shameless, victim blaming quackery.

And don’t get me started on “miracle mineral solution” (or bleach, as I like to call it, BECAUSE IT IS BLEACH AND THAT IS ITS CORRECT NAME).

*Given where the Avocado got its name from (it resembles a nad bag, as is named so in the local language), I’m eternally unsure if Mr Wolfe chose that especially, given we know he talks absolute and utter bollocks all of the time. Such as “chocolate is an octave of sun energy.....

**Autism is not a disease that can be cured. I’ve even read suggestions that it might simply be a form of brain evolution. Unsure on that claims validity though.

Wait ,



Miracle mineral solution? Bleach.

and here i thought that was just a meme?

Also, Wtf did i just read about jilly juice? You can't tell me that didn't lead to consequences.

No consequences at all.

She’s been bollocked for lying about it’s health benefits by the FTA, but so far as I can see, never prosecuted.

As for MMS?

Wiki, I still know, and again this is cited wrote: Miracle Mineral Supplement, often referred to as Miracle Mineral Solution, Master Mineral Solution, MMS or the CD protocol,[1] is chlorine dioxide, an industrial bleach. It is made by mixing aqueous sodium chlorite with an acid (such as the juices of citrus fruits or vinegar). This mixture produces chlorine dioxide, a toxic chemical that can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and life-threatening low blood pressure due to dehydration.[2]

Mmm-mmm, love that industrial bleach. And no, squirting it up your khyber won’t cure anything - except maybe any lingering common sense.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No consequences at all.

She’s been bollocked for lying about it’s health benefits by the FTA, but so far as I can see, never prosecuted.

As for MMS?

Wiki, I still know, and again this is cited wrote: Miracle Mineral Supplement, often referred to as Miracle Mineral Solution, Master Mineral Solution, MMS or the CD protocol,[1] is chlorine dioxide, an industrial bleach. It is made by mixing aqueous sodium chlorite with an acid (such as the juices of citrus fruits or vinegar). This mixture produces chlorine dioxide, a toxic chemical that can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and life-threatening low blood pressure due to dehydration.[2]

Mmm-mmm, love that industrial bleach. And no, squirting it up your khyber won’t cure anything - except maybe any lingering common sense.

Darwinaward level of idiocracy.

As for the above, ... i once again have lowered my expectations for humanity as a species.

The worst bit? It’s now being targeted at people in developing countries, because this nonsense is rightly being stamped down on hard in the west.

And again, we see snake oil being sold under the cloak of religion. Which is utterly despicable.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The worst bit? It’s now being targeted at people in developing countries, because this nonsense is rightly being stamped down on hard in the west.

And again, we see snake oil being sold under the cloak of religion. Which is utterly despicable.

Wellp...
that sounds like something i missed entirely?

It’s completely inexcusable.

There is zero evidence for MMS and its ilk curing anything. Yet they will continually peddle it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33079776

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s completely inexcusable.

There is zero evidence for MMS and its ilk curing anything. Yet they will continually peddle it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33079776

I am unsure if i should have Schadenfreude or just resign from this thread for a day or two.
that's just utterly insane.

It’s them preying on the poor and the vulnerable that pisses me off.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
When it comes to Woo peddlers such as David “Avocado*” Wolfe and his ilk, what really brings me down is their whole “big pharma only want munneh”.....whilst peddling and charging through the nose for all sorts of mumbo jumbo drivel and nonsense.

How can people not see straight through that?

That's probably because you're in the UK like myself - we have national health.
My impression about the "Big Pharma only want money" view comes from the USA where that very much is an element. Though its split between the pharmaceuticals and the insurance groups, the net result is people see medicine as charging a lot. Remember its a country where an ambulance ride can cost hundreds to thousands and where there might be many ways around it to pay less for those on lower income, but they are often not aware of those "tricks/methods" to take advantage of them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s them preying on the poor and the vulnerable that pisses me off.

neither absolves of responsibility, though.
But responsibility also applies to "products" peddled so imo, jail time and some serious work with psychiatric institutions, especially for the "reverend" are high time.

but then again maybee that is just me, that thinks that way.


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 Overread wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
When it comes to Woo peddlers such as David “Avocado*” Wolfe and his ilk, what really brings me down is their whole “big pharma only want munneh”.....whilst peddling and charging through the nose for all sorts of mumbo jumbo drivel and nonsense.

How can people not see straight through that?

That's probably because you're in the UK like myself - we have national health.
My impression about the "Big Pharma only want money" view comes from the USA where that very much is an element. Though its split between the pharmaceuticals and the insurance groups, the net result is people see medicine as charging a lot. Remember its a country where an ambulance ride can cost hundreds to thousands and where there might be many ways around it to pay less for those on lower income, but they are often not aware of those "tricks/methods" to take advantage of them.

Pharma wanting money is natural, afterall it's a company, however something Europe has that the USA hasn't is a somewhat wierd inheritance from social democratic structures , meaning that there is a counterplayer to unmigitated greed. The USA only ever really had one phase under teddy , where big buissness was confronted with a counterweight that could and would hold them to task.
That is something that should not be underestimated.

I’m always cautious when a matter boils down to a lack of education.

Yes, some folk do squander their learning, and need to wise up. But yet more folk receive little to no education at all, let alone one of half decent quality.

This is of course particularly prevalent in developing countries, where these woo peddlars seem intent on targeting their BS and misinformation.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m always cautious when a matter boils down to a lack of education.

We had that discussion quite early on.
It's frankly shamefull how much desinvestment in some "developped" countries happened in regards to education, however when the stuff leads to diharea i am sorry but selfpreservation is also a thing that should work for most functional human beeings...

Yes, some folk do squander their learning, and need to wise up. But yet more folk receive little to no education at all, let alone one of half decent quality.

This is of course particularly prevalent in developing countries, where these woo peddlars seem intent on targeting their BS and misinformation.

Frankly and let's be real here, a lot of developping countries squander ressources on non necessary things aswell... cue venezuela f.e.
The targetted people are basically victims of their own government AND the snake oil peddler.

Which still makes them susceptible in regards to consequences.

Guys, as i said months ago, when people believe that 5g cellphone towers are, somehow, causing on spreading covid what can you do or say?

I mean has anyone engaged these people to ask how they think EM transceiver sites would spread a physical object like a virus?

I'm afraid to, i mean i might ask them and they'd say that covid can be spread by these new super antennas like EM transmissions because its invisible, "just like radio waves are! So it can be spread like radio waves because it's like radio waves!"

Or it might be "Well i got a virus on muh phone thru them transmitters an' if'n they can spread one virus they can spread 'em all!"

Yes, i am honestly afraid some people believe this.

They probably believe it because it justifies some other, more central belief they already had.


It's wrong to view it as like

cellphones give you covid -> so that's how They get you! -> we need to get rid of Them

because it's actually

I want to get rid of Them -> what do I accuse Them of to justify this? -> spreading plague!



and besides, for many conspiracy groups it's a good thing that the specifics and mechanics of their claims are absurd because it weeds out everyone who isn't fully dedicated to the group. If your reaction to bs is to ask what? why? instead of bullshitting even harder then you're not fully useful to the cult.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Guys, as i said months ago, when people believe that 5g cellphone towers are, somehow, causing on spreading covid what can you do or say?

I mean has anyone engaged these people to ask how they think EM transceiver sites would spread a physical object like a virus?

I'm afraid to, i mean i might ask them and they'd say that covid can be spread by these new super antennas like EM transmissions because its invisible, "just like radio waves are! So it can be spread like radio waves because it's like radio waves!"

Or it might be "Well i got a virus on muh phone thru them transmitters an' if'n they can spread one virus they can spread 'em all!"

Yes, i am honestly afraid some people believe this.

As I understand it the fundamental problem is these kinds of people have big gaps in their understanding of how the world works. They don't really know what a virus is as such, neither the computer kind nor the physical kind. They don't really know what or how radio or other waves work; they don't know how viruses really transmit. Furthermore because they are so ignorant they are well into the scale of not knowing what it is they don't know. Furthermore they are often in segments of society who have poor self learning skills.

This means even when they can see a gap in their understanding, they can't sift the answers they google/find to sort fact from fiction at a basic level.


The huge gaps in their understanding mean that they make false conclusions that appear to make no sense what so ever, because they are only working with a fraction of the understanding. It's often reasonably logical thinking, its just they've got so many key gaps that the logical conclusions they reach sound exceptionally illogical to those with a greater understanding. It creates a huge barrier between the two groups and its very hard for them to communicate with each other because the more ignorant group really needs classes and regular lessons on a lot of early subjects to build up and fill in the missing gaps.


Of course if they've joined a group of others promoting the same misunderstanding its likely some of those gaps have been filled with false information. Or were taught in a way that leads one down to the wrong conclusions. Another trick is to play on the fact that school level science isn't "real" and is sometimes an artificial construct that allows a teacher to teach the basics of one theory. However its not designed to go further than that basic concept, but when it is taken further it can be twisted and such.




Another thing to keep in mind is that many of these people might well not have exactly squandered their education and might have been reasonably attentive at school. It's just that since school they've not had any reason to use that knowledge. So just like many of us can do trigonometry during school and then 20 years later not have a clue save that there's a rhyme with socks in it; because we've not had to do it in 20 years. The same is true for those people who were taught what a virus was and how it worked and then never had reason to recall or use that information.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Guys, as i said months ago, when people believe that 5g cellphone towers are, somehow, causing on spreading covid what can you do or say?

I mean has anyone engaged these people to ask how they think EM transceiver sites would spread a physical object like a virus?

I'm afraid to, i mean i might ask them and they'd say that covid can be spread by these new super antennas like EM transmissions because its invisible, "just like radio waves are! So it can be spread like radio waves because it's like radio waves!"

Or it might be "Well i got a virus on muh phone thru them transmitters an' if'n they can spread one virus they can spread 'em all!"

Yes, i am honestly afraid some people believe this.

That's a nice story but David Icke is a proponent of the 5g celltowers causes covid "theory" and his story is none of those that you are putting in his mouth. His story is that the 5g towers cause health adverse effects somewhat like how mobile phone masts and microwave ovens were supposed to back in the day. His story is that the virus was just a cover story to blame a rise in deaths and sickness coinciding with the roll out on something else. It might be wrong or paranoid but it is not as implausible as your strawman stories.

Why are you defending a guy who believes in lizardmen and who wasn't actually mentioned in the post you are quoting? There are in fact people who claim that 5g spreads the disease.

They seem to say that 5g suppresses the immune system, letting viruses in.
I think...

Rosebuddy wrote:
Why are you defending a guy who believes in lizardmen and who wasn't actually mentioned in the post you are quoting? There are in fact people who claim that 5g spreads the disease.

I don't like to see anyone misrepresented, it doesn't help anyone. Some people do that just to make themselves sound clever at the expense of someone else, in this case "conspiracy theorists". All I have seen suggests they think it causes radiation damage. Radiation damage is a dis-ease, it is just not one caused by virii, or bacteria.

Radiation damage is no Disease.

It's damageing DNA. This is not the same.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Radiation damage is no Disease.

It's damageing DNA. This is not the same.

You are thinking disease means "infectious disease" implying a biological vector. The meaning of disease is more general than that. If it helps read it as symptoms of disease.

Here is a defintion from the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Disease, any harmful deviation from the normal structural or functional state of an organism, generally associated with certain signs and symptoms and differing in nature from physical injury. A diseased organism commonly exhibits signs or symptoms indicative of its abnormal state. Thus, the normal condition of an organism must be understood in order to recognize the hallmarks of disease. Nevertheless, a sharp demarcation between disease and health is not always apparent.

https://www.britannica.com/science/disease

Radiation poisioning is a physical injury now isn't it?

Come on now.

The generally accepted definition of disease (that used among average everyday people) does not include radiation or other poisoning.

If some people perceive radiation poisoning or radiological damage to cells and DNA as disease its not because they understand an encyclopaedia Britannica reference.


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We should remember as well that the previous few years has seen experts being demonised downplayed and outright being said to be untrustworthy.

No wonder David Icke and his ilk are still around.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The worst bit? It’s now being targeted at people in developing countries, because this nonsense is rightly being stamped down on hard in the west.

And again, we see snake oil being sold under the cloak of religion. Which is utterly despicable.

Has it made its way into telenovela yet? That seems to be the way a lot of this junk infiltrates culture in places like South America, where you have characters espousing the benefits of stuff like Herbalife and other pyramid schemes.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Radiation poisioning is a physical injury now isn't it?

You could interpret it that way if it suits you. Is liver cirrhosis a disease? For consistency within this conversation you will have to say no in order to preserve your narrative here. On any other day you would say it is. So that is how it goes.

Let's stay in perspectives here: a great number of people in developing countries like many of the sub-Saharan African nations, have extremely low personal income and "enjoys" terrible standards of living compared to the west and even much of the east. Meanwhile, medicines costs are only raising higher and higher. How do you expect a family with an average median household income of ~$2,000 to afford medications and professional treatments for life-threatening conditions? (For comparison, the average median household income in the U.S. is above 43K, according to worldpopulationreview.com. source).

Not to mention many of these nations have traditional medical remedies derived from thousands of years of trial and error with a good amount of traditionalism and superstitions. When their life's hanging by a thread, it's just a bit arrogant to say that these people are responsible for grasping for straws. When the missionaries and pastors come and tell them something would save their lives, they'd try it because, for them, what else is there to lose? How many people these same victims of MMS in Africa are misled by those missionaries because they were seeking help in the first place?

 SolarCross wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Radiation poisioning is a physical injury now isn't it?

You could interpret it that way if it suits you. Is liver cirrhosis a disease? For consistency within this conversation you will have to say no in order to preserve your narrative here. On any other day you would say it is. So that is how it goes.

Depends entirely AS to why?

alcohol vs hepatitis f.e.
further inherited version vs obesity.