Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/12/09 17:25:34
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Crispy78 wrote: OK this is risking getting political, but I guess you're maybe talking about a more right-wing ideology suggesting a Darwinian element to supporting those not able to look after themselves or something? And how it goes against survival-of-the-fittest Darwinism to help people who can't help themselves?
Firstly, that ignores the many examples of altruism being a beneficial trait that evolution has selected for in the natural world.
Secondly, just because that is how the natural world (often) works, it doesn't mean we can't choose to be better.
Survival of the fittest is actually the single biggest argument in favor of altruism that there is. Evolution and adaptation on an individual level ONLY cares about one's own ability to pass on their genes. Other individuals from the same species are competition as much as those from other species. Helping another organism is inherently detrimental unless there is a reason otherwise. Yet, natural selection has seen fit to give humans (and other organisms) altruistic feelings and a genuine desire to help others at the expense of ones self. Why would that be beneficial in a strictly selfish system?
Because individuals who worked together ended up with more individual success in the long run. Humans A B and C may have each managed to get a a kilo of meat for food in a day, but by working together they could get 5 kilos, providing each member with more than if they worked alone. Because of that, if individual C is struggling it is in the best interest of the other two to help because the short-term cost is outweighed by the long term gain. The most selfish thing to do is, paradoxically, to help others.
Put simply: survival of the fittest only cares about the individual, and by that system we were given a drive to help others, meaning that helping others is more beneficial to ourselves than not.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Im telling you... What if there really is something on the moon?? Why the sudden step up ?
Aliens dunit
The sudden setup is probably due to a). China's Space Program which aims to builds its own space station by 2020 and put human on the Moon. It's also probably related to Pres. Trump's attempts to defund the program, which means the organization has to promote itself as useful to the American public. Putting the two together and ask yourself: what better way to garner public support then to challenge the Chinese in a match it's already won?
2020/12/10 11:44:43
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Im telling you... What if there really is something on the moon?? Why the sudden step up ?
Aliens dunit
The sudden setup is probably due to a). China's Space Program which aims to builds its own space station by 2020 and put human on the Moon. It's also probably related to Pres. Trump's attempts to defund the program, which means the organization has to promote itself as useful to the American public. Putting the two together and ask yourself: what better way to garner public support then to challenge the Chinese in a match it's already won?
I hope there's a typo in there, lcmiracle, or someone is going to have to break it to the Party that they have three weeks to build (and presumably launch) a space station...
Competition - either between firms or nations - does seem to be a factor in space exploration/technology progressing quickly, though, so this seems useful.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2020/12/10 11:48:36
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Im telling you... What if there really is something on the moon?? Why the sudden step up ?
Aliens dunit
The sudden setup is probably due to a). China's Space Program which aims to builds its own space station by 2020 and put human on the Moon. It's also probably related to Pres. Trump's attempts to defund the program, which means the organization has to promote itself as useful to the American public. Putting the two together and ask yourself: what better way to garner public support then to challenge the Chinese in a match it's already won?
I hope there's a typo in there, lcmiracle, or someone is going to have to break it to the Party that they have three weeks to build (and presumably launch) a space station...
Competition - either between firms or nations - does seem to be a factor in space exploration/technology progressing quickly, though, so this seems useful.
Apparently an extra 2 at the end was eaten because I haven't been paying my party fees because I haven't joined...
2020/12/11 00:41:09
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
I'm not a covid conspiracy nut, but i admit i just heard something on MSNBC that makes me understand them better.
There were people talking about the tens of thousands of small businesses and restaurants that have been destroyed by covid, and how i'ts possible only giant corporate stores and restaurants will survive the pandemic.
I'm not saying this is not true, and i'm not saying i don;t see the economic reasons behind it, but I also admit i can see the POV of a covid conspiracy theorist that will jump up and scream "AHA! THIS PROVES COVID WAS ENGINEERED BY THE CORPORATE OLIGARCHY TO KILL ALL SMALL BUSINESSES AND LEAVE THEM WITH NO COMPETITION SINCE THEY ALL COLLUDE WITH EACH OTHER! PROVES IT ABSOLUTELY!!!"
And yes, given how amazon (Jeff Bezos, aka the real world's version of lex luthor) went out of its way to destroy all online diaper sellers, openly and intentionally, and how walmart had practiced predatory pricing to force local retailers out of business when they move into an area, it's actually easy to see how many reasonable, intelligent people could find it easy to believe that the huge corporations might actually want to eliminate all small businesses even if it mean engineering a pandemic. They certainly have a history of actively targeting and destroying small businesses by whatever means possible, so it's hard to blame people for assuming the worse about them.
So not all 'conspiracy nuts' are raving paranoids with tinfoil hats, sometimes their views are actually not fringe or extreme at all. This is a case where believing in a conspiracy theory might be far from unreasonable.
I'm not saying i do believe it, but i'm not saying i consider it a ridiculous belief either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/11 00:42:53
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
2020/12/11 00:53:44
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Thing is in the UK we've seen more than a few big names also go under or get close to it. Big internet sellers are doing good, but a lot of big "highstreet" names which aren't food stores, are really hitting the wall. Of course they often do during recessions because they are up to their eyeballs in debt which they used to grow big fast, it bites them when the economy slows and they wind up owing more than they can earn.
At the same time much of this isn't new, we've been losing highstreet shops for a while and services like Amazon have been steadily growing in power and influence in the market.
So when you look at it like that they didn't need Covid, the market was fully heading in their favour to begin with. Even Cinemas coming under threat from streaming is, again, just acceleration of a pattern that was already happening.
I can certainly see their point, but I think for many its also having someone to blame for all this. Esp when you are one of those who have lost their business or their job through no fault other than never having times good enough to have a years investment set aside. When you've worked hard and there is nothing you can do - your shop is shut and even when its open you're hobbled on customers and many also don't want to come for safety reasons.
Yeah, I seriously doubt that big corporations planned the whole thing.
However, I have no doubt whatsoever that they're immoral, clever, and opportunistic enough to abuse the hell out of the situation.
The same applies to China, another beloved target for "plandemic" conspiracies.
2020/12/11 02:12:33
Subject: Re:Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah. This wasn't a planned thing. The Pandemic has just been an extremely convenient thing for a lot of people to take advantage of, both for governments and private corporations. And they need to be called out on it.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Overread wrote: Thing is in the UK we've seen more than a few big names also go under or get close to it. Big internet sellers are doing good, but a lot of big "highstreet" names which aren't food stores, are really hitting the wall. Of course they often do during recessions because they are up to their eyeballs in debt which they used to grow big fast, it bites them when the economy slows and they wind up owing more than they can earn.
At the same time much of this isn't new, we've been losing highstreet shops for a while and services like Amazon have been steadily growing in power and influence in the market.
So when you look at it like that they didn't need Covid, the market was fully heading in their favour to begin with. Even Cinemas coming under threat from streaming is, again, just acceleration of a pattern that was already happening.
I can certainly see their point, but I think for many its also having someone to blame for all this. Esp when you are one of those who have lost their business or their job through no fault other than never having times good enough to have a years investment set aside. When you've worked hard and there is nothing you can do - your shop is shut and even when its open you're hobbled on customers and many also don't want to come for safety reasons.
As a general suggestion, i might recommend that more countries set of what we had in america called the Small Business Administration, SBA, that used to help small businesses get started with low interest loans and help in dealing with red tape. The SBA used to be a real power in america but has been gutted badly by certain leaders.
Given the history of big businesses actively crushing small businesses with various practices, i'd find the SBA with a special tax on huge businesses. I'm sure they;d squeal and have a lot of media screaming for the horror of majt corporations being taxes, my reply would be "Waah Waah."
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bran Dawri wrote: Yeah, I seriously doubt that big corporations planned the whole thing.
However, I have no doubt whatsoever that they're immoral, clever, and opportunistic enough to abuse the hell out of the situation.
The same applies to China, another beloved target for "plandemic" conspiracies.
See now this is what i meant. Maybe the big business players didn't make this happen but it sure looks like they wanted it to happen, and they're acting in every way like they're glad it happened so they can exploit it.
Now when people act like that it's hard to condemn people for stepping (It's not really a leap) to the conclusion that they had something to do with it happening ITFP. So not all conspiracy theorists are always raving paranoids.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/11 02:19:03
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
2020/12/11 04:11:37
Subject: Re:Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah. This wasn't a planned thing. The Pandemic has just been an extremely convenient thing for a lot of people to take advantage of, both for governments and private corporations. And they need to be called out on it.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Now when people act like that it's hard to condemn people for stepping (It's not really a leap) to the conclusion that they had something to do with it happening ITFP. So not all conspiracy theorists are always raving paranoids.
No, jumping to conclusion that there's a conspiracy is still worthy of condemnation, particularly since rampant conspiracies and conspiracy theorists get pretty nasty with 'who' is to blame.
By all means go after corps and people who act illegally and immorally, but the idea that 'they're involved' is still off the rails.
The big money companies just have an easier time pivoting to online and deliveries in a way a small business can't. Its simple a matter of lacking the non-invested cash, expertise and infrastructure. Big businesses can also soak short term losses to make structural changes that will benefit them in the long term, and most small business can't do that. It isn't a good thing, but it isn't the result of conspiracy.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/11 04:23:20
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/12/11 09:10:50
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Jumping from "they're profiteering off it" to "they caused it so they could profit off it" also makes it far too easy to dismiss the former, legitimate criticism as the latter tinfoil hat rambling.
2020/12/11 09:19:43
Subject: Re:Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah. This wasn't a planned thing. The Pandemic has just been an extremely convenient thing for a lot of people to take advantage of, both for governments and private corporations. And they need to be called out on it.
hear hear..
This I agree with. Disaster Capitalism is very much a thing. Indeed, we’re seeing a certain situation in the U.K. being exploited in the same way.
But that topic is not for Dakka.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2020/12/11 13:11:50
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Reading the article they've stopped development of it for Corona; likely because as soon as anyone hears HIV antibodies they'd go "OMG its giving people aids". Which would be a PR disaster.
So its a good call there, but yes I really would expect them to take that ground work and run with it and see what they can produce. A vaccine for AIDS would be phenomenal.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Reading the article they've stopped development of it for Corona; likely because as soon as anyone hears HIV antibodies they'd go "OMG its giving people aids". Which would be a PR disaster.
So its a good call there, but yes I really would expect them to take that ground work and run with it and see what they can produce. A vaccine for AIDS would be phenomenal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/11 13:12:32
Crispy78 wrote: Not really getting why the spin of the article is so negative.
The problem is the vaccine makes the body create the same antibodies it uses to fight HIV. Detecting those antibodies is usually the quickest way to detect is someone has HIV, so this vaccine causes a massive problem because it creates false positives where regular HIV screening would assume the person has HIV when they don't. To be clear this isn't an HIV vaccine - the antibodies are known antibodies that the body produces to fight HIV (sadly, not very effectively).
There are two reasons this is bad:
1. It messes with standard screening procedures for HIV. You can still determine if you have a false positive or not through further testing but that's slower and more expensive.
2. If your vaccine is producing weird, unrelated, antibodies that's something you want to be wary of in general. It's a side-effect and may be indicative of bigger problems with your vaccine. It's also a bit of a PR nightmare even if the side-effects aren't medically problematic, particularly when it now appears we have a bunch of viable vaccine candidates that don't have this issue.
2020/12/11 13:54:52
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
It was sounding a bit like "Bruce ya bloody drongo! You were supposed ta make a bloody Covid vaccine! Not this bloody AIDS vaccine! Bin it, ya flaming galah!"
2020/12/11 16:23:24
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
HOLD UP! You are telling me, the Aussie COVID vaccine actually produced HIV antibodies? By. the. Emperah. -- We have AIDS vaccine!
For the explain it like I'm five crowd, should I read this as meaning that producing HIV antibodies could combat HIV, and it's super weird that the vaccine for a completely different virus did it? Is it possible there was simply some kind of mistest or contamination? EDIT: And nvm, this was answered just above me!
Slip has the roundout as to why that is an issue. NINJAed
Still, contamination is indeed an maybee?
However if not, then the question is as to why our body produced them, are they a general defensive tool and we didn't know?
Or is there more going on?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/11 16:25:29
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2020/12/11 16:43:28
Subject: Re:Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
It was probably contamination. Perhaps whatever method that vaccine was using to generate the immune response for COVID also generated one that would stimulate HIV immune response.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
For the record, I believe the US media is conspiring to wage a war on intelligence in america.
"But whyyyyy?" you ask?
I believe it's being done because when you look at a lot of media, intelligent people are portrayed negatively, like on TBBT, they are portrayed as objects of ridicule and mockery, caricatures to be pander to popular stereotypes much like a modern Amos 'n Andy.
other highly intelligent characters are portrayed as being weird, unpopular, cold, creepy, etc.
Robert Goren on Law and order criminal intent was a good effort at portraying a highly intelligent person with serious problems which is often the case as i know from experience. His portrayal was sensitive and realistic.
But many other characters with high intelligence and shown as less sympathetic. In the awful flash gordon one season series the SFC did Dr. Zarkov was a pathetic spazz who was routinely abused and bullied by everyone and portrayed as a slovenly wretch while trying to save humanity. (Given how he was treated i wonder why he bothered.)
Captain Kirk in the generic scifi action movies abrams made and stuck star trek names on was basically a smartass stupid punk who got away with ridiculous gak no on would, and his promotion to commanding the enterprise without even graduating starfleet academy was utterly idiotic, as were the abrams generic scifi action movies called star trek in general.
In the original series kirk was fairly intelligent and in the academy referred to as 'a stack of books with legs'. Hic changeover was to emphasize "cool" over intelligent.
Scotty was a spastic dweeb, as opposed to how he was portrayed in the series.
So, yeah, I see the media subtley and not so subtley demeaning and negatively portraying intelligent people, and intelligent is different from "smart", which is more attitude.
Meanwhile stupid people are held up as icons. Charlie Sheen's character on 2 and a half men was a selfish, shallow, stupid blockhead, and sheen was about the highest paid actor on tv until he hit the self destruct button on his career.
Tim Allen's character on Last man standing openly dumps on "intellectualism" as did his character in home improvement, and both are proud to be somewhat neanderthalish.
The joey character on friends was a dimwit, but a likeable one. It goes on.
So that's why i think there is a war on intelligence being waged in the media.
As to why it's being done, maybe its because stupid, ignorant, self indulgent, selfish, shallow people are easier to manipulate and sell junk to than intelligent people. Maybe it's cheaper to dumb down the market that make useful, well designed products.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/24 11:57:40
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
2020/12/24 13:00:14
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
I don't think there's an agenda behind that. It's pandering to the lowest common denominator - most people aren't very smart and think that's what smart people are like, so the media portray them that way, which reinforces the stereotype.
Since "smart people" aren't considered to be a minority that can be discriminated against, it's a fairly safe stereotype to use without getting accused of discriminating against anyone - which especially in comedy shows is a useful thing to have. Perceived unworldliness makes such characters a great straight man in setting up a joke.
Alternatively (or perhaps both are at play, one feeding off the other) there's a famous quote by Asimov about anti-intellectualism in the US that seems to point more towards a deeper cultural disdain for intellect that is being portrayed (and enhanced) by the media rather than them inventing it, at least when it comes to entertainment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/24 13:08:15
2020/12/24 13:27:23
Subject: Conspiracy Theorists - a ‘but why?’ Discussion.
There’s also plenty of “comedy” that revolves almost entirely around people being thick.
BBT is noticeably terrible. The male leads are all thin stereotypes, and from there the ‘humour’ is derived.
But to weigh the matter, one would need to take a wider look. In the U.K. for example, we have quite a few high quality, high brow shows which reward intelligence (QI, Only Connect, Have I Got News For You) - and we also have many, many reality shows which reward acting like an utter arse.
Does a Love Island balance out a QI? Are both demographs equally served? If not, are there reasons for it (much as I watch a lot of telly, I also have outside interests and hobbies, meaning I’m more able to select my viewing pleasure).
Yes, anti-intellectualism is a thing. And it always will be, because some like to look down on the less learned, often sneeringly. And it’s gratifying to see them skewered for it, to see that ego bruised when they lose out to Average Joe.
For every mass market show like Mrs Brown’s Boys (utter, utter crap), there’s stuff like Black Mirror, Stewart Lee, Charlie Brookner and other excellent comedy which assumes a certain level of knowledge from its audience.
Example of QI, just in case you’ve not had the pleasure.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Bran Dawri wrote: I don't think there's an agenda behind that. It's pandering to the lowest common denominator - most people aren't very smart and think that's what smart people are like, so the media portray them that way, which reinforces the stereotype.
This.
I think a lot of the things most people complain about in modern media come down to occam's razor. Media is for profit. They will always pander to the lowest common denominator for the highest amount of income. There is no grand conspiracy. The media and entertainment industries are stupid as everyone else is. They're just dogs chasing a car and grabbing all the money coming out of the exhaust pipe.
Example of QI, just in case you’ve not had the pleasure.
Between that clip and Black Adder Goes Forth, I'd now be willing to entertain conspiracy theories about Stephen Fry and pigeons.
Possibly enlisting them in a conquest of Flanders.
Eldar- 4436 pts
