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So what's the maximum number of dice you theoretically need now for a matched play 40k game? By my reckoning Goff Boyz, on turn 7, after mobbing up multiple times, right? 30+70 is 92 boyz and 8 nobz, for 408 attacks, +100 for Warpath, +100 for Ghaz aura. 608 attacks all roll 6's to hit causing another 608 attacks. That's 1216 dice.


Sadly Mordians got nerfed so they can't outdo that anymore. Anyone have any other ideas?

Best I can come up with for my armies is 30 Devouerer Gants for a single roll of 90 D6.

Are Crusader Squads still a thing? Between a 15-strong squad of Marines, some relics and traits and psychic powers, you probably could get some kind of obscene number. The only ones I could see beating the Orks for number of attacks would be Marines, simply because they have so so many means of adding attacks to models.

It's a sad day when there's no more Axe of Khorne with potentially infinite exploding attacks for Chaos. RIP 3.5 'dex, you were too fun for this world.

I would say a unit of 10 gretchin.

Assuming they get hit by a fully-mobbed-up unit of goff slugga boys, with warpath and ghazzie, and they roll perfectly, that's 1,216 saves to roll!


Actually, I can outdo that (on a technicality).

a unit of plague marines get hit by the aforementioned mobbed-up squad. The Nobs have powerklaws and roll perfectly for hits, wounds and damage, and the marines fail every save. Now they have slightly more FNP rolls to make, due to the 8 nobs doing not 24 wounds but 72, for 48 extra dice - being 1,266 FNP dice!

 some bloke wrote:
I would say a unit of 10 gretchin.

Assuming they get hit by a fully-mobbed-up unit of goff slugga boys, with warpath and ghazzie, and they roll perfectly, that's 1,216 saves to roll!


Actually, I can outdo that (on a technicality).

a unit of plague marines get hit by the aforementioned mobbed-up squad. The Nobs have powerklaws and roll perfectly for hits, wounds and damage, and the marines fail every save. Now they have slightly more FNP rolls to make, due to the 8 nobs doing not 24 wounds but 72, for 48 extra dice - being 1,266 FNP dice!

The thing is, FNP rolls are made one at a time, as are saves, thus you don't actually need 1266 dice. To Hit rolls, however, can be fast rolled.

Can Nobz have two choppas for a few more attacks?

 Yarium wrote:
Are Crusader Squads still a thing? Between a 15-strong squad of Marines, some relics and traits and psychic powers, you probably could get some kind of obscene number. The only ones I could see beating the Orks for number of attacks would be Marines, simply because they have so so many means of adding attacks to models.

Can't speak for BA or SW, but vanilla Marines don't actually have that many ways to add more attacks to a unit and they're also limited by lower maximum squad sizes.

Theoretically, a full unit of Centurion Devastators under Imperial Fist and Bolter Drill so every 6 to-hit generates one additional hit and one additional attack would generate 108 to-wound rolls per model on a roll of all 6s to-hit, 648 in total. I don't think vanilla marines can get anywhere remotely close to that in melee.

I think it's definitely something Ork. High rate of fire/number of attacks and high model count, plus exploding attacks.

Goffs Sluggaboyz in CQC is probably the answer.

Probably Custodes Hurricane Bolter Bikes. 12 shots per model. Up to 9 models per squad. 108 dice.

10 Iyanden wraith host wraith blades with swords on the charge, with wrath of the dead and supreme disdain strats popping the psytronome could potentially generate 140. With enhance cast on them and an autarch they average 90+ hits, pretty pokey.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
I would say a unit of 10 gretchin.

Assuming they get hit by a fully-mobbed-up unit of goff slugga boys, with warpath and ghazzie, and they roll perfectly, that's 1,216 saves to roll!


Actually, I can outdo that (on a technicality).

a unit of plague marines get hit by the aforementioned mobbed-up squad. The Nobs have powerklaws and roll perfectly for hits, wounds and damage, and the marines fail every save. Now they have slightly more FNP rolls to make, due to the 8 nobs doing not 24 wounds but 72, for 48 extra dice - being 1,266 FNP dice!

The thing is, FNP rolls are made one at a time, as are saves, thus you don't actually need 1266 dice. To Hit rolls, however, can be fast rolled.

"Can be" - but don't have to be. By this logic, you only ever need one dice (die, but British) to play Warhammer 40k regardless of how many things are going on.

Feeling left out here. the best my army can manage is 48 dice for one unit shooting. (Gun drones *8 with a Fireblade in attendance at 9" range)

Poor me, I've got dice envy....

Andrew

I speed roll everything in batches of 10, resolving all the rerolls in each batch of 10 before moving on to the next.

I'm not sure there's a reason why FNP and Saves must be rolled one at a time.

15 man jump pack equipped Death Company Squad, all sporting a chainsword, dropping in on turn three with Savage Echos active and making a charge after buffs.

2 attacks each, 30 attacks total base. Plus 1 for charging (Angels of Death), 45 attacks. Plus 1 for charging (Death Company rule), 60 attacks. Plus 1 for Chainswords across the board, 75 attacks. Plus 1 for Savage Echos chapter bonus in the Assault Doctrine, 90 attacks. If there's a librarian nearby that can cast unleash rage, that adds another Plus 1 attack for 105 attacks. Sanguinor being within 6" of the squad will get another plus 1 attack getting the squad up to 120 attacks total. If Lemartes is present, then they are all re-rollable to-hit.

Factor in other buffs such as the Chaplain's litany for exploding 6's (Netting ~20 additional attacks or so) and you're pushing ~140 attacks, with rerolls, +1 to would and -1 AP.

If need-be, you use 3 CP to do it again, so ~280 attacks from one squad.

There are bigger attack pools you can get from other units I'm sure, but ~140 is pretty studly I think.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Three. Just roll them lots of times...

Yeah, if you follow the "ultra explicit" rules in typical BCB fashion, you theoretically need just one dice.

I only need 20. How many I could use is a different story. But it still wouldn't be very high for any of my armies.

 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, if you follow the "ultra explicit" rules in typical BCB fashion, you theoretically need just one dice.

You do know fast rolling is a thing and "ultra explicit"ly permitted by the rules, right? If you're gonna be snarky at least do it right!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, if you follow the "ultra explicit" rules in typical BCB fashion, you theoretically need just one dice.

You do know fast rolling is a thing and "ultra explicit"ly permitted by the rules, right? If you're gonna be snarky at least do it right!

Sure. But your question is the maximum number of dice you need, not the maximum number of dice you could optionally use.

Be specific in your wording.

I usually use 12. Mythical DC charges rarely happen. They are too busy being dead.

Technically, by that token, you don't need any physical dice! You could always use a number generator.

There's still an issue with the question as posed.

While fast rolling is mechanic spelled out in the rules, it's not mandated. As a result, the maximum number of dice needed to perform a roll as specified in the rules (either the rulebook, a scenario, or some individual model related ability) should be around four or five D6. (Assuming you don't want to use the common law accommodations...). But it may actually just be two or three.

What is the biggest number of dice that the rules specify for a roll (xD6, such as for damage, or a psychic test, or whatever)?

If the original poster meant to ask "What's the maximum number of dice you may need for fast rolling for a matched play 40k game in order to use fast rolling for everything possible?", then it's a much larger number.

Otherwise, it's well established in the common law of dice rolling that when the number of physical dice required for something exceeds the number of dice available, various accommodations are used. For example:
- If you've got twenty dice and you need to roll 100, you roll those twenty dice in five batches, recording the appropriate counts.

Note I said "maximum" and "theoretical", not "optimal" and "practical". Yes, you can optimise the game while following the rules to the letter and only need a single die, but that is not what I was asking.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Note I said "maximum" and "theoretical", not "optimal" and "practical". Yes, you can optimise the game while following the rules to the letter and only need a single die, but that is not what I was asking.

Yes it is, BCB. You said "need." You only "need" one.

Get out of here with that Question As Intended nonsense; you must answer the Question As Written. It is the only logical, reasonable, defensible way to understand the question.

Inferring anything more than what is on the page in pixels is a terrific mistake.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Note I said "maximum" and "theoretical", not "optimal" and "practical". Yes, you can optimise the game while following the rules to the letter and only need a single die, but that is not what I was asking.

Yes it is, BCB. You said "need." You only "need" one.

Get out of here with that Question As Intended nonsense; you must answer the Question As Written. It is the only logical, reasonable, defensible way to understand the question.

Inferring anything more than what is on the page in pixels is a terrific mistake.

I must admit, the irony of pointing this out to BCB is amusing.

Dice are never enough. There's no such thing as too many dice.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Note I said "maximum" and "theoretical", not "optimal" and "practical". Yes, you can optimise the game while following the rules to the letter and only need a single die, but that is not what I was asking.

And the theoretical maximum is 1, which is what you asked. Need to be more precise with your wording if you want a useful answer.

Having said that, if you really want to roll a lot of dice, the Death Company example can be improved upon if you're playing against Black Legion because BA get a stratagem that effectively gives them DttFE on 4+ against Black Legion, meaning you effectively increase your attack pool by more than 66% with Lemartes close by.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Note I said "maximum" and "theoretical", not "optimal" and "practical". Yes, you can optimise the game while following the rules to the letter and only need a single die, but that is not what I was asking.

Yes it is, BCB. You said "need." You only "need" one.

Get out of here with that Question As Intended nonsense; you must answer the Question As Written. It is the only logical, reasonable, defensible way to understand the question.

Inferring anything more than what is on the page in pixels is a terrific mistake.

+1

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Note I said "maximum" and "theoretical", not "optimal" and "practical". Yes, you can optimise the game while following the rules to the letter and only need a single die, but that is not what I was asking.

Yes it is, BCB. You said "need." You only "need" one.

Get out of here with that Question As Intended nonsense; you must answer the Question As Written. It is the only logical, reasonable, defensible way to understand the question.

Inferring anything more than what is on the page in pixels is a terrific mistake.

Exalted.