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I don't disagree, but 20 years ago we didn't have 3D printing. We didn't even have it 3 years ago. We barely have it now compared to what we will in a year or three.

I mean you can say it's illegal infringement and that's perfectly true. But as long as countries like China and Russia have a policy of not going after infringers of foreign IP, there are always going to be plenty of printers willing to supply stuff, and as soon as they are able to provide high enough quality stuff that it isn't easy to tell a painted version from the real thing, GW is going to be in big trouble. I kinda wonder if this is a deliberate last hurrah from a company that knows the days it can sell its kits for literally 4x production cost are numbered.

Is there a list going around with the Australian prices?

yukishiro1 wrote:
I don't disagree, but 20 years ago we didn't have 3D printing. We didn't even have it 3 years ago. We barely have it now compared to what we will in a year or three.

I mean you can say it's illegal infringement and that's perfectly true. But as long as countries like China and Russia have a policy of not going after infringers of foreign IP, there are always going to be plenty of printers willing to supply stuff, and as soon as they are able to provide high enough quality stuff that it isn't easy to tell a painted version from the real thing, GW is going to be in big trouble. I kinda wonder if this is a deliberate last hurrah from a company that knows the days it can sell its kits for literally 4x production cost are numbered.

I think you get a false view of how common 3D printers are online. The average gamer doesn't have one. Even if they do they don't have a top end model and might well not even have the skill to use a top end model - heck many people have enough trouble problem solving a printer not printing perfectly and changing toner/ink let alone tackling the myriad of issues a 3D printer can throw up.

Furthermore 3D printers are nothing new - you can cast your own models at home with some investment in basic mould making kit and metal. I've no idea on prices, but a top end 3D printer of the kind needed to meet GW's standard in casting might well not be far away in cost - even if it is its all a one-time cost. Again you can cast at home and have been able to for years.





Also lets face it computer games and DVD's still sell even though ripping and CD burning have been a thing for ages. Most people are honest and want to see the companies that make things they enjoy, continue to function. You can't justify being against a price rise when your counter isn't fair. Saying that "We'll just 3D print it" is basically saying that GW has to compete with 3D printing raw material cost. That is a battle they will NEVER win. At least not unless they downsize to one or two designers working from home selling 3D print files.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I don't disagree, but 20 years ago we didn't have 3D printing. We didn't even have it 3 years ago. We barely have it now compared to what we will in a year or three.

I mean you can say it's illegal infringement and that's perfectly true. But as long as countries like China and Russia have a policy of not going after infringers of foreign IP, there are always going to be plenty of printers willing to supply stuff, and as soon as they are able to provide high enough quality stuff that it isn't easy to tell a painted version from the real thing, GW is going to be in big trouble. I kinda wonder if this is a deliberate last hurrah from a company that knows the days it can sell its kits for literally 4x production cost are numbered.

I think you're overthinking it, frankly. 3D printers are still a long way away from being accessible to everyone.

GW isn't the only company out there facing rising costs. Yes, they're more expensive than most other miniature companies... that's a facet of their business model, and it doesn't change the fact that rising costs require you to raise your prices if you want to keep making money, unless you're willing to substantially change your business model.

This isn't a 'last hurrah' any more than the price rise a year ago was, or any of the preceding price rises were. It's just business as usual. Costs increase, so prices increase.

I'm not suggesting people will own 3D printers themselves and make their own models that are good enough to pass for real product. That's a decade or more away, and even when it becomes economical, people are not likely to bother with it unless GW's prices become truly extortionate.

What isn't ages away is 3D printers located in China, Russia and other "no-IP" locations that sell copies of GW models for half or less what GW charges for the same thing. These already exist, and they are right on the edge of being able to produce models that can pass for real after being painted. Once they get there, it is going to be a real headache for GW to deal with.

To be clear, I'm not advocating this at all. But the fact is that the bigger the disparity is between the knock-off and the real thing, the more people will justify buying the knock-off. It's just how human nature works. People want to be honest, but if they feel ripped off, they are a lot more likely to turn to the shady knock-off provider instead. It's a balance GW is going to have to be careful of getting right in the next few years.

Chinese recasters have been operating since long before 3D printers were a thing. Yes, piracy is an ongoing issue for GW, but whether counterfeits are made in a mould or on a 3D printer really isn't going to have much of an impact on that until 3D printing becomes substantially cheaper than casting... which is still some years away, for any decent quality level.

Yeah and you can say the same for knock off music and DVD and almost anything. Heck designer handbags have way way way more mark-up than GW puts onto their models and go into hundreds to thousands in cost. Whilst the "knock offs" are priced way lower and yet the higher priced still exist.

A lot of people are generally honest and they want to see the company rewarded. Don't forget all those knock=of companies won't inject money back into the hobby for new models. One or two might (eg there's the Ukraine company that was recasting out of print Rakham models who then started their own miniature line and seem to be doing rather well - and more honestly and better than the company currently holding the Rakham lifence); but by and large if they are undercutting with illegal recasts they are purely in it for the money.

Well music is a good example, actually. The music industry was absolutely devastated by widespread piracy once MP3s became a thing. It had to completely change its business model to survive. And a big part of the reason that piracy of music was embraced as widely as it was was that people didn't really feel bad about it because the music labels were big faceless corporations that people had no goodwill towards.

GW has always tried to tread the line between being your friendly local gaming company and a commercial behemoth. Every time it raises prices during a global depression it takes one step from friendly local gaming company that people want to support, towards faceless multinational corporation that people don't care about cheating.

This is a big PR own goal, which they are smart and savvy enough to know. That they're doing it anyway says they've calculated that the profits are worth the hit to their goodwill. And they're definitely better at making that calculation than me, so they're probably right.

Not too concerned in all honesty. Most of my recent purchases have been about filling gaps in my collections, so these mostly came very cheap second hand (well, I'll use the word reasonable instead of cheap). I will probably buy new stuff along the way, but usually that is at a local store and more of a "thank you for letting me use your space" payment, than an intentional purchase.

 insaniak wrote:
I wouldn't say there's any reason to act like a price rise is a good thing... But at some point we all need to stop acting surprised by them, or pretending that they're some sort of personal attack, surely.

Who said anything about a personal attack?

And I don't think the "lie back and think of England" approach is a good idea. Of course people are going to act surprised. They can't believe that they're raising the prises. Again.

Years ago I had all the good will towards GW. Still following through on price rises, planned or not, at this time is really tasteless. I get they just want the money but in order for me to have good will towards them they have to show it towards me as well.

They don't ever do sales, the only way you seemingly get discounts is by living in England as Conquest was cool yet not for offer in the US, their price schemes are crazy and the constant cost rising exceeds cost changes and is simply rampant greed.

Not to mention their total lies thrown out and hoped to be forgotten. Like remember when they said they wouldn't do these price hikes anymore as they'd just raise the costs on new model releases and therefore wouldn't need constant price raising ? I remember that and being lied to doesn't engender good will either.

It's hard anymore to even see this as better at this point then Kirby GW. All the same cost rising, out right lies even faster burn and churn. Hell even editions seem to be lasting less and less in duration.

The company is at its face bad, they just lie to you with a smile and before they didn't bother to talk to you at all. Their PR is better and while this isn't shocking in the least it doesn't make it feel any better each time they do it.

I had planned to not really get any GW this year but I have in fact done so just because a friend of mine runs a hobby store and with things as they are he needs all the help he can get. There is very little else I needed or could use so some GW is what I had to get and it sucks. I can't wait to finish off the projects I still need stuff for and just say nah to GW. I've loved this game for a long time but they don't deserve any good will for the constant fleecing they love to do. Especially not fleecing right now.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Years ago I had all the good will towards GW. Still following through on price rises, planned or not, at this time is really tasteless. I get they just want the money but in order for me to have good will towards them they have to show it towards me as well.

They don't ever do sales, the only way you seemingly get discounts is by living in England as Conquest was cool yet not for offer in the US, their price schemes are crazy and the constant cost rising exceeds cost changes and is simply rampant greed.

Not to mention their total lies thrown out and hoped to be forgotten. Like remember when they said they wouldn't do these price hikes anymore as they'd just raise the costs on new model releases and therefore wouldn't need constant price raising ? I remember that and being lied to doesn't engender good will either.

It's hard anymore to even see this as better at this point then Kirby GW. All the same cost rising, out right lies even faster burn and churn. Hell even editions seem to be lasting less and less in duration.

The company is at its face bad, they just lie to you with a smile and before they didn't bother to talk to you at all. Their PR is better and while this isn't shocking in the least it doesn't make it feel any better each time they do it.

I had planned to not really get any GW this year but I have in fact done so just because a friend of mine runs a hobby store and with things as they are he needs all the help he can get. There is very little else I needed or could use so some GW is what I had to get and it sucks. I can't wait to finish off the projects I still need stuff for and just say nah to GW. I've loved this game for a long time but they don't deserve any good will for the constant fleecing they love to do. Especially not fleecing right now.

Spot on. I've played the game for years, given GW thousands of dollars, and I'm done spending. They upped prices around Brexit (BS, but typical GW) and they followed it up with the price increases now and it's just absurd. I've picked up Dropfleet/Dropzone, and I guess if I have to burn money as a result of addictive personality on hobby games I will do it on DFC/DZC rather than 40k/AoS. The golden age GW has been enjoying won't last forever and they really don't seem to be doing anything to protect themselves in that future.

I have a massive 40k collection. I now play every army except Death Guard (because my friend plays that, and wanted it to be special to just him). Every time an army gets released I get something. At the very least the codex, at least one of the "new" units, and likely something to compliment the change-over. Now..... not so much. Up until this edition I've owned every book and every supplement. Now I only own about 60% of it. As of this price hike, I might be priced out except for the rare treat or the "OMG this mini is amazing, gotta have it" moment. $100 for a LandRaider is ridiculous. $33 for a character? GTFO.

As someone who lives in Japan these price increases are particularly problematic. We have not had inflation here for more than 20 years, so any increase is in real terms. On top of that prices here are the most expensive in the world right now. A £50 land raider costs the equivalent of £88.90, and in a few weeks the price is going to go up.
They could correct this imbalance simply by freezing Japanese prices for the next few years but unfortunately I don't see this happening.
The other problem we have here is that there is not a single independent store in Japan that sells at the 15% discount that is common in other parts of the world.

In the future for people like me who are already deep into Warhammer it won't make much difference. I'll just buy a bit less stuff, but it will certainly put off new customers in a market that gw is pretty keen to grow.

 Lorek wrote:

Also, the hidden upside for GW is that when people pay more for something, they believe it to be of better quality. It's just how our brains work, and is likely a way for us to justify to ourselves the higher costs of expensive items, or may be a throwback to how things that were difficult to get were usually better. Either way, $100 for a Land Raider (or whatever it is now) makes it seem that much more special to the lizard part of our brain.

That's a pathology of highly-developed, late capitalism marketing and advertising, not a hardwired element of human biology.

Fungoid Cave-Shaman Snazzgar Stinkmullett He's already $35 for one tiny goblin!

I left GW behind years ago (and the wider hobby too) but still lurk Dakka and a few places a bit. But I was lured back a year or so ago when I saw the Zarbag's Gits get released - and was pleasantly surprised when I saw a bunch of gobbos for $30 - which seemed decent. Then when I was at the store I looked at some of the other new stuff that came out the last few years and saw this guy $35. One goblin already more expensive than the 10 goblins in the Gits box …

But apparently $35 for a goblin isn't enough. Oy.

Why the hell are they raising prices on the Underworlds stuff, especially warbands and other 40k and AOS product that just got released?

Celebrate the reopening with going back to the annual price hike in a Pandemic. Stay classy GW.

Schmapdi wrote:
Fungoid Cave-Shaman Snazzgar Stinkmullett He's already $35 for one tiny goblin!

I left GW behind years ago (and the wider hobby too) but still lurk Dakka and a few places a bit. But I was lured back a year or so ago when I saw the Zarbag's Gits get released - and was pleasantly surprised when I saw a bunch of gobbos for $30 - which seemed decent. Then when I was at the store I looked at some of the other new stuff that came out the last few years and saw this guy $35. One goblin already more expensive than the 10 goblins in the Gits box …

But apparently $35 for a goblin isn't enough. Oy.

That goblin is still on the same size sprue as a Space Marine Captain or a Stormcast Eternal Lord Venator.

Well, as someone once said on these very fora:

 Lorek wrote:
Besides, we can't all be poor. Some of us can purchase what we feel like.

One thing I'd like to point out for Polonius is that "getting priced out" doesn't just mean people can no longer afford to buy the minis in a literal sense. I think at least some percentage quit buying because, even though they have plenty of disposable income, they feel like they are getting played for suckers. Should I buy 10 lattes, or a single mini? I can afford to do either, but one of them makes me feel like I'm not getting super good value.

Of course, since this has been going on for decades, clearly this is a working strategy.

 Manchu wrote:
Announcing that prices are going up is GW’s idea of a sale.

I laughed at first but then, the more I thought about it...


...I think you're spot on!


In a weird way, I wouldn't be surprised if GW really did view this as a somewhat strange sort of "Sale Opportunity" for everyone!

And if you have the budget and were going to make the purchases soon anyway...it kind of...is?!?

 Ghaz wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
Fungoid Cave-Shaman Snazzgar Stinkmullett He's already $35 for one tiny goblin!

I left GW behind years ago (and the wider hobby too) but still lurk Dakka and a few places a bit. But I was lured back a year or so ago when I saw the Zarbag's Gits get released - and was pleasantly surprised when I saw a bunch of gobbos for $30 - which seemed decent. Then when I was at the store I looked at some of the other new stuff that came out the last few years and saw this guy $35. One goblin already more expensive than the 10 goblins in the Gits box …

But apparently $35 for a goblin isn't enough. Oy.

That goblin is still on the same size sprue as a Space Marine Captain or a Stormcast Eternal Lord Venator.

So, definitely worth $35 then.

 insaniak wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I don't disagree, but 20 years ago we didn't have 3D printing. We didn't even have it 3 years ago. We barely have it now compared to what we will in a year or three.

I mean you can say it's illegal infringement and that's perfectly true. But as long as countries like China and Russia have a policy of not going after infringers of foreign IP, there are always going to be plenty of printers willing to supply stuff, and as soon as they are able to provide high enough quality stuff that it isn't easy to tell a painted version from the real thing, GW is going to be in big trouble. I kinda wonder if this is a deliberate last hurrah from a company that knows the days it can sell its kits for literally 4x production cost are numbered.

I think you're overthinking it, frankly. 3D printers are still a long way away from being accessible to everyone.

GW isn't the only company out there facing rising costs. Yes, they're more expensive than most other miniature companies... that's a facet of their business model, and it doesn't change the fact that rising costs require you to raise your prices if you want to keep making money, unless you're willing to substantially change your business model.

This isn't a 'last hurrah' any more than the price rise a year ago was, or any of the preceding price rises were. It's just business as usual. Costs increase, so prices increase.

not hardly FDM and SLA printers are dropping in price every year. You can get an FDM printer for the cost of one large model in the USA and an SLA printer for a tad more. If you get both you can easily make terrain with FDM and miniatures with SLA. A ton cheaper and pretty easily. ATM I own two 3d printers yet to get an SLA because I only print scenery so far. But stuff like this fully justifies a purchase of an SLA printer.

As far as what a household printer can do it sounds kind of like people don't have them but if you go on any 3d printing community you can find people who make files for anything including 40k stuff and provide said files for free. The results are amazing anyone who things that 3d printers are only for the wealthy or you need to invest a ton of money to get one it isn't so. The 3d printing community is very helpful for new comers as well and has many forum based sites to help you out.

JWBS wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
Fungoid Cave-Shaman Snazzgar Stinkmullett He's already $35 for one tiny goblin!

I left GW behind years ago (and the wider hobby too) but still lurk Dakka and a few places a bit. But I was lured back a year or so ago when I saw the Zarbag's Gits get released - and was pleasantly surprised when I saw a bunch of gobbos for $30 - which seemed decent. Then when I was at the store I looked at some of the other new stuff that came out the last few years and saw this guy $35. One goblin already more expensive than the 10 goblins in the Gits box …

But apparently $35 for a goblin isn't enough. Oy.

That goblin is still on the same size sprue as a Space Marine Captain or a Stormcast Eternal Lord Venator.

So, definitely worth $35 then.

It's 'worth' is dependent on what the buyer is willing to pay for it. As for it's cost, it's not the size of the model but what size sprue(s) the model comes on that has the biggest impact on its cost..

Accessibility isn't just about price. 3D printers aren't going to really take off until they're at least as easy to use as 2D printer is now. The average punter doesn't want to have to mess around with resin, or calibrate build platforms, or figure out how to generate (and remove!) supports.

Why the price increase for newer kits?

Is this just a revaluation on perceived worth? Adjustment for increased production costs? Compensating for loss of revenue due to Covid19? A straight cash grab?

The ~10% increase isn’t going to ruin my budget but it’s very unpalatable on the older and newest kits.

 insaniak wrote:
Accessibility isn't just about price. 3D printers aren't going to really take off until they're at least as easy to use as 2D printer is now. The average punter doesn't want to have to mess around with resin, or calibrate build platforms, or figure out how to generate (and remove!) supports.

These aren't average punters though, they're already someone who is of the mindset that sitting down for hours carefully assembling, say, 10 soldiers piece by piece, cleaning and filing as they go, using solvents to attach the pieces to each other is something they're happy to do.

All resin printing really does is move the same labour to other points in the process, and resin machines are what you need for minis and are far simpler machines to operate than FDM.

 Dentry wrote:
Why the price increase for newer kits?

Is this just a revaluation on perceived worth? Adjustment for increased production costs? Compensating for loss of revenue due to Covid19? A straight cash grab?

It's just a price increase plus a lie. They aren't increasing prices "Mostly on stuff that that hasn't increased in price in years" Quoting a recaster, "Most (52%) of the products actually are less than 3 years old or have had a price increase due to a rebox back in 2017". So yeah, technically it's not a lie, because half of the stuff on the list had price increases only 3 years ago, but if 3 years now equals "Price increase overdue", we're close to being back to yearly price rises on everything (very close in fact, because as we can all see, a lot of the stuff on the isn't even 3, 2, or 1 years old yet, so "Only 3 years ago" doesn't even show the full picture).

Here's a thought, what if GW is obligated by their share holders to increase prices the following year if they've failed to make target goals for the proceeding year? I mean the last fisical year for GW proably was... under performing thanks to corvid 19..

Ouze wrote:
One thing I'd like to point out for Polonius is that "getting priced out" doesn't just mean people can no longer afford to buy the minis in a literal sense. I think at least some percentage quit buying because, even though they have plenty of disposable income, they feel like they are getting played for suckers. Should I buy 10 lattes, or a single mini? I can afford to do either, but one of them makes me feel like I'm not getting super good value.

Of course, since this has been going on for decades, clearly this is a working strategy.

You’re describing opportunity cost, and I completely agree. You’re making basically the same point as me only from an emotional perspective than a purely rational basis.

Combine rising prices for new models with the diminishing returns, even emotionally, from buying more, and of course people will spend their money elsewhere.

But people leave GW for all kinds of reasons. Some people don’t like a new edition, or lose a gaming group, or have a child, or any number of reasons. I don’t have the data, but I bet GW knows how many people stop buying due to price increases.

In fact, I bet GW knows a lot more about their business than we do. It’s a professionally managed, publicly traded corporation. It knows the elasticity of its prices, it knows what certain SKUs need to sell for to justify the warehouse space, and it also knows what does, and does not drive its popularity. It’s just frustrating every year when people act like the boss from Dilbert is just pulling random numbers from a hat, rather than making carefully calculated pricing decisions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Lorek wrote:
This happens EVERY price hike, and GW just keeps selling more stuff. I wish I could find it, but I made a post like this back in 1997 on an IRC channel. Face it, for every person who quits GW, there are two more fresh-faced hobbyists waiting to take their place.

So, what, we should just suck it up and act like GW is doing us a favour?

Of course not. But claiming that this is the price hike to kill GW seems unwise.

 Polonius wrote:
It’s just frustrating every year when people act like the boss from Dilbert is just pulling random numbers from a hat, rather than making carefully calculated pricing decisions.

You think that what irritates people most about price increases is "I don't believe GW has thought this through fully. This might lead to less profits for GW in the long term."