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 Kanluwen wrote:

What do you expect Warhammer Community to do? Talk about Privateer Press? Mantic? Knight Models?

It is not what is being discussed but what people know. I expect people who are gamers to not be tunnel visioned into one source Only knowing about Games Workshop, Marvel IP games, or Magic with no perspective about what else is out there does not provide an informed perspective, in fact it is a bit cultish. This is what GW wants of course.

Point is, price adjustments are BS, they are price hikes they just want to use hand wavium to make it sound better. Adjusting is better than gouging.

As for what models are better ? I'd say I think GW had much better models. I don't appreciate the single pose yet nice looking models as much anymore, they feel pretty yet soulless and bleh. This has gone down this path for awhile and I feel like the golden age of what I loved about GW models has passed and all they will do is become more easy build but nice as time goes on.

That for me is why I like the old marines more than the new. Sure the new look cool but it's all very samey and boring. Same feeling I had with the Sigmarines they never sparked even one desire to buy them as they just look so boring and lacking in flavor. So the more they keep jacking up prices the more I think people will look else where.

Mantic isn't a bad company its just not as popular in the states and honestly the only thing GW has going for it is presence at this point. If there was another system, from a better company with as much presence to get traction, at this point I'd drop GW like a bad date. The only thing good I can say about them is their customer support is great.

Almost 50 USD for a Chimera is insane, when new Guard drop and they are like 60$ for 10 that will be even more insane and that is all these price hikes hint to, a taste of things to come. As a wise soul stealing Wizard once said, it has begun.

I'm really disappointed that GW saw fit to jack up the price on Beastgrave by 25% to $100. With sales tax in BC that comes to $112 if you're buying it from GW direct (my local store where I play is in fact a GW store).

The price hike doesn't affect me in that I already own everything for Underworlds, but I feel really pessimistic about the effect it's going to have on the community we're growing here (assuming we're ever allowed to play in person again.

For reference, Nightvault was $70, Beastgrave was already an increase on that to $80 and I don't think it was an especially easy sell. It'll be even tougher now that it's in three digits.

GW's overseas pricing doesn't seem to consider sticker shock at all. Furthermore, with UK retail prices already inclusive of 20% VAT, foreign prices are even more out of whack. Beastgrave's new retail price in the UK is £50 - including 20% VAT. The Canadian retail price is equivalent to a UK ex-VAT price of £59 - which would be £70.80 at the till. Does anyone in the UK seriously think that Beastgrave is worth 70 quid?

AngryAngel80 wrote:

Mantic isn't a bad company its just not as popular in the states and honestly the only thing GW has going for it is presence at this point. If there was another system, from a better company with as much presence to get traction, at this point I'd drop GW like a bad date.

it is difficult to say how much presence Mantic's Deadzone has, because of the pure nature of the game, you don't need a Club or Store to play, same with Walking Dead.
yet those are Mantic's best selling games and just what I have seen people play at home in small groups with no big interaction outside FB

the direct competition is Kill Team, while Warpath rivals 40k in size/amount of models, there rules are more comparable to Apocalypse (or the other way around as WP is the older one) which is not to everyones liking

for the size in between Deadzone and 40k, Star Wars Legion and it fills this gab perfectly. It is the typical FFG game, so has a lot of problem to keep stuff in stock as the demand is higher than the production and skips WYSIWYG for cards and the SW setting is not for everyone but it is there and played a lot.

I looked at some of the prices in the online store yesterday, and can safely say that my expenditures will slow down for sure. I was thinking of finishing up some of my old marines to round out the collection......but now GW sees fit to raise most of those prices? Weird choice. So I'm pretty much done with any catch up, what I have is what I have unless I find something really cheap in secondary market that is good.
Sure, I will get the 9th boxset, but will be more selective on individual character models...those prices are obscene.

 kodos wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

Mantic isn't a bad company its just not as popular in the states and honestly the only thing GW has going for it is presence at this point. If there was another system, from a better company with as much presence to get traction, at this point I'd drop GW like a bad date.

it is difficult to say how much presence Mantic's Deadzone has, because of the pure nature of the game, you don't need a Club or Store to play, same with Walking Dead.
yet those are Mantic's best selling games and just what I have seen people play at home in small groups with no big interaction outside FB

the direct competition is Kill Team, while Warpath rivals 40k in size/amount of models, there rules are more comparable to Apocalypse (or the other way around as WP is the older one) which is not to everyones liking

for the size in between Deadzone and 40k, Star Wars Legion and it fills this gab perfectly. It is the typical FFG game, so has a lot of problem to keep stuff in stock as the demand is higher than the production and skips WYSIWYG for cards and the SW setting is not for everyone but it is there and played a lot.

It just ends up being saturation for me, like I'd love to try Legion but honestly I'm not sure I trust FFG much either at this point. Though I enjoy the SW stuff it's just such a niche group around here, no one I know plays it so it just ends up being stuck with GW if I want to play any of the mini games. Which is really why they sit so high on the hog with the adjustments. Many I feel are just stuck, some of course would never ever leave but it's hard to know when it often is the only game in town.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
If you take your wive out for dinner, do you go to the restaurant you like, or to the cheap one with the 100% organic food?

Ah... that common misconception that a high price equates to the best.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mantic exists because metachasers want cheaper stuff and the metachasers don't care about quality.

Their whole schtick is and always will be "generic stuff that can be repped in GW--but cheaper!".

Typical example of Mantic's generic, low-quality proxies for GW models according to Kan, apparently loved by metachasers as they can pass for official models at GW events at a cursory glance

Poor quality dispelled.

Awaits;
a) But I just don't like them
b) No one plays that round here
c) It's too generic (prior to complaining about GW special rules)
d) and so on...

e) They don't look like they belong in 40K, because they dont. If you like them, cool. Why we're talking about them in relation to 40K?

Here is what I would say. If you find 40K too expensive, why are you here crying about it? Go play this Mantic game if it's cheaper and so much better.

Also, yeah those do look stupid and ugly. Sorry but I calls it as I see it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tokhuah wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

What do you expect Warhammer Community to do? Talk about Privateer Press? Mantic? Knight Models?

It is not what is being discussed but what people know. I expect people who are gamers to not be tunnel visioned into one source Only knowing about Games Workshop, Marvel IP games, or Magic with no perspective about what else is out there does not provide an informed perspective, in fact it is a bit cultish. This is what GW wants of course.

Or we just don't have time to waste on games that literally aren't even SOLD at our FLGS because no one plays them. I have many hobbies, 40K being one of them. I can't play everything, nor do I want to.

At least 3 of them do very much look like they could belong in 40k. I'm sure plenty could point at current 40k models and say they " don't belong " that is an entirely subjective gripe.

As for why people gripe, because they want to ? That love it or leave it attitude just eventually burns down what you claim to love as if you only allow agreement you end up with an unhelpful echo chamber.

One could say why complain about complaining ? Why not just love it and ignore those complaints ?

 Togusa wrote:

e) They don't look like they belong in 40K, because they dont. If you like them, cool. Why we're talking about them in relation to 40K?

because someone said Mantic is only making cheap and bad alternaitves for GW models so that meta chasers can stay on a budget
yet those models won't fit anything unless you are going to play an undiscovered alien race, so the main argument is just made up without any backup

 Togusa wrote:
Go play this Mantic game if it's cheaper and so much better.

I do
really looked forward to Kill Team but what GW offered was not worth the price (and I won't even need to buy new models as I have enough around) for me so I ended up with Deadzone. The game is better and cheaper.

 Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
If you take your wive out for dinner, do you go to the restaurant you like, or to the cheap one with the 100% organic food?

Ah... that common misconception that a high price equates to the best.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mantic exists because metachasers want cheaper stuff and the metachasers don't care about quality.

Their whole schtick is and always will be "generic stuff that can be repped in GW--but cheaper!".

Typical example of Mantic's generic, low-quality proxies for GW models according to Kan, apparently loved by metachasers as they can pass for official models at GW events at a cursory glance

Poor quality dispelled.

Awaits;
a) But I just don't like them
b) No one plays that round here
c) It's too generic (prior to complaining about GW special rules)
d) and so on...

e) They don't look like they belong in 40K, because they dont. If you like them, cool. Why we're talking about them in relation to 40K?

Here is what I would say. If you find 40K too expensive, why are you here crying about it? Go play this Mantic game if it's cheaper and so much better.

Also, yeah those do look stupid and ugly. Sorry but I calls it as I see it.

Was that directed at me?
I was quoting another post.
People were comparing toy soldiers from one company with toy soldiers from another company and the price differences and quality. After all, this was a thread about GW price 'adjustments'.

And the bit about me crying over 40k prices? Wow, aren't you entitled.

Mantic Games (rules) technically are better, but not always the minis. However, I'm not stuck in the bubble of having to purchase figures from only one manufacturer.
I do buy GW models from time to time. so yes, their price rises annoy me as much as anyone. Except possibly yourself who likes the expense.

I have many hobbies, 40K being one of them.

"The greatest trick GW ever pulled was convincing the faithful that their products were a hobby."

I snagged one of these NOS off ebay for £40 when I saw it on the list...

Ah the yearly GW price gouge, sorry, adjustment...

I thought, with the "gateway game" spam junket they've been on recently that they were moving away from only focusing on the wallets of the kids of whales...

Personally I gave up buying stuff regularly a few years ago, I'm in the luxurious position of having a 20 year old company sized Dark Angels army and some Deathwing/Ravenwing, 1500+ points of CSM, a smattering of Eldar and a few random models, all bought at least 10 years ago before the great price adjustment crusade really got going. My gaming buddy has similar amounts of 40k models also. So we just proxy stuff where necessary. Something on a 25mm base is the same as something else on a 25mm base...

If I do buy anything new (last new thing I bought was Van Saar and Cawdor gangs last year, year before) it's something random just to paint, or small units (like Necromunda gangs), and I buy it from a 3rd party that offers a discount, many offer as much as 20% discount. And even then I only buy one or two things a year, if that.

I was sizing up a table full of GW terrain for Necromunda the other day though. It was looking like the thick end of £1k ($1255ish). I can get as much or more MDF terrain for a third of that cost. May not look as pretty but it'll do the job.

If I were GW I'd be looking at more ways to get people playing, and terrain is a key aspect in that! They'd do a roaring trade if they produced some low cost reasonable detail terrain!

I think, or at least hope, that a great many current gamers may be telling GW to go do one if they carry on as they are, especially in these uncertain economic times for many, including myself.

Unfortunately though there will still be a core of whales that will continue to blindly pay GW's extortionate prices. After all as whales they're all right, stuff everyone else, not their problem others can't afford the same hobby, and that they as whales are enabling GW to maintain high prices. Until that is they try to find a game and can't because GW have priced gamers out of the market, but no, that'll never happen, will it...

Don't think GW are doing themselves any favours....

Rob Lee wrote:
Ah the yearly GW price gouge, sorry, adjustment...

I thought, with the "gateway game" spam junket they've been on recently that they were moving away from only focusing on the wallets of the kids of whales...

Personally I gave up buying stuff regularly a few years ago, I'm in the luxurious position of having a 20 year old company sized Dark Angels army and some Deathwing/Ravenwing, 1500+ CSM, a smattering of Eldar and a few random models, all bought at leat 10 years ago before the great price adjustment crusade really got going. My gaming buddy has similar amounts of 40k models also. So we just proxy stuff where necessary. Something on a 25mm base is the same as something else on a 25mm base...

If I do buy anything new (last new thing I bought was Van Saar and Cawdor gangs last year, year before) it's something random just to paint, or small units (like Necromunda gangs), and I buy it from a 3rd party that offers a discount, many offer as much as 20% discount. And even then I only buy one or two things a year, if that.

I think a great many current gamers may be telling GW to go do one if they carry on as they are, especially in these uncertain economic times for many, including myself.

Unfortunately though there will still be a core of affluent gamers (whales) that will continue to blindly pay GW's extortionate prices. After all they're all right. Until they try to find a game and can't because GW have priced gamers out of the market, but no, that'll never happen, will it...

Don't think GW are doing themselves any favours....

The reason GW don't learn from this, is that the whales continue to purchase. Those struggling with prices, just spend what they normally afford. They just get less for their money. It suits GW as they make the same money and have to make less product.

There's so many people on here saying how annoyed they are at the price rises, yet will spend the same budget each month on GW goods.

Many won't change. Their only friendship groups and hobby time are all based around GW games. Leaving the 'cult' has a massive impact on their social life.

 kodos wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

e) They don't look like they belong in 40K, because they dont. If you like them, cool. Why we're talking about them in relation to 40K?

because someone said Mantic is only making cheap and bad alternaitves for GW models so that meta chasers can stay on a budget
yet those models won't fit anything unless you are going to play an undiscovered alien race, so the main argument is just made up without any backup

 Togusa wrote:
Go play this Mantic game if it's cheaper and so much better.

I do
really looked forward to Kill Team but what GW offered was not worth the price (and I won't even need to buy new models as I have enough around) for me so I ended up with Deadzone. The game is better and cheaper.

Cool. I'm glad you have a game to enjoy.

I enjoy 40K and look forward to the new models for Ad Mech and Necrons and plan to purchase them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
If you take your wive out for dinner, do you go to the restaurant you like, or to the cheap one with the 100% organic food?

Ah... that common misconception that a high price equates to the best.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mantic exists because metachasers want cheaper stuff and the metachasers don't care about quality.

Their whole schtick is and always will be "generic stuff that can be repped in GW--but cheaper!".

Typical example of Mantic's generic, low-quality proxies for GW models according to Kan, apparently loved by metachasers as they can pass for official models at GW events at a cursory glance

Poor quality dispelled.

Awaits;
a) But I just don't like them
b) No one plays that round here
c) It's too generic (prior to complaining about GW special rules)
d) and so on...

e) They don't look like they belong in 40K, because they dont. If you like them, cool. Why we're talking about them in relation to 40K?

Here is what I would say. If you find 40K too expensive, why are you here crying about it? Go play this Mantic game if it's cheaper and so much better.

Also, yeah those do look stupid and ugly. Sorry but I calls it as I see it.

Was that directed at me?
I was quoting another post.
People were comparing toy soldiers from one company with toy soldiers from another company and the price differences and quality. After all, this was a thread about GW price 'adjustments'.

And the bit about me crying over 40k prices? Wow, aren't you entitled.

Mantic Games (rules) technically are better, but not always the minis. However, I'm not stuck in the bubble of having to purchase figures from only one manufacturer.
I do buy GW models from time to time. so yes, their price rises annoy me as much as anyone. Except possibly yourself who likes the expense.

Honestly I'm not sure if I was replying to you or the other person.

I never think about price, my hobby is my hobby, it costs what it costs. I'm not rich, but I have no outstanding debt anymore and have hit the plance in life where I can afford to buy 4+ model kits per month with no repercussion. I just don't care or think about the cost.

Totally agree with that Gimgamgoo.

Would be nice to have a "budget" for hobbies each month...

I think it also comes down to a perceived prestige thing. GW have positioned themselves, or try to, as the Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Pagani, Ferrari etc. of the hobby. Many whales see themselves as being above others simply because they can afford to buy GW products. Much in the same way owners of said car brands do...

Don't wish ill on anyone but hopefully the current and forthcoming economic crisis due to the current pandemic will adjust some of the selfish attitudes...

Been saying for years the selfish attitudes displayed by many of the more affluent gamers are causing the player base to shrink, and around most of the UK it has done from what I can tell, despite GW posting massive profits. The bigger global markets, like the US tournament scene, are where GW have grown, but then that's where we seem to get the negative attitudes from...

Rob Lee wrote:
Totally agree with that Gimgamgoo.

Would be nice to have a "budget" for hobbies each month...

I think it also comes down to a perceived prestige thing. GW have positioned themselves, or try to, as the Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Pagani, Ferrari etc. of the hobby. Many whales see themselves as being above others simply because they can afford to buy GW products. Much in the same way owners of said car brands do...

Don't wish ill on anyone but hopefully the current and forthcoming economic crisis due to the current pandemic will adjust some of the selfish attitudes...

Been saying for years the selfish attitudes displayed by many of the more affluent gamers are causing the player base to shrink, and around most of the UK it has done from what I can tell, despite GW posting massive profits. The bigger global markets, like the US tournament scene, are where GW have grown, but then that's where we seem to get the negative attitudes from...

This is gotta be a troll post.. Can I just confirm, you think wargamers are selfish because those that can afford GW miniatures, buy GW minatures other might not afford which somehow perpetuates high prices?
Surely you could just get a buket of green-stuff and sculpt your own miniatures in a pinch if GW prices are too expensive.

How many times does this have to be said.. what one person thinks is expensive is not expensive to someone else..
Its not friggin food we all need to survive or electricity we are talking about its plastic toy solidiers.. Dont like ti dont buy it. cant afford it dfont buy it.. same with big ass Tv or expesnive cars..

I drive a piece of gak car..I do honestly... I'm going to rag it into the ground but it just keeps working year after year..
I'm not going to look at a Bentley and think the guy is selfish because he bought a Bentley so that Bentley can justify having a ludicrous price tag... I dont want/ cant afford a Bentley.. but if only all those slefihs jerks would instead drive piece of gak cars, bentleys would naturaly become cheaper we could all afford bentleys..(apart form those that cannot afford a car of any kind...but screw them I guess ?)

The Bentley driver in turn cant/wont afford a private helicopter and so on.. We should all have private helicopters by this logic eh ?

Sorry, no, it's not a troll post.

Just the cold hard truth that many seem unable or unwilling to grasp. Yourself included it seems.

Why do you think prices remain so high? Could it perhaps be because people keep on paying them?

If price hikes continue at some point the customer base will shrink so much that the company has to reduce prices or go out of business.

That is where GW are headed and shareholders won't accept a reduction in prices.

That is where the hobby is headed - a small core of very affluent people. Much akin to aforementioned luxury car owners.


By your logic those who can't afford should just sit staring at the wall! Private helicopters? Why not?

If people stopped and thought for a moment, i.e. stopped being selfish, we could all enjoy this hobby far more...

Applies to a great many things here in the UK.

How often to customers not buying something result in a company lowering prices but maintaining the same product quality and volume?

It's VERY rare that happens. Typically when a market stops buying entirely (or en-mass) the company has to restructure. This might mean dropping a lot of product lines; dropping a lot of the company bulk and downsizing.

So you might well get cheaper warhammer- probably at a lower quality without black library without forgeworld without as much art or fluff etc...

By your logic those who can't afford should just sit staring at the wall!

There are lots of ways to get into the hobby (Even GW ) without being bank breaking. That said if there are people who seriously cannot afford it then, well, yes they will have to stare at the wall. Or play and promote other games they can afford. It's a luxury productline not food or water.




Also at present GW has seen their market GROW significantly over the years. So they are raising prices at the normal time; they are seeing the market grow and they are seeing what works and what fails. In short we are still very far from the critical mass point where they overprice themselves out of the market in the extreme.

Rob Lee wrote:
Sorry, no, it's not a troll post.

Just the cold hard truth that many seem unable or unwilling to grasp.

Why do you think prices remain so high?

Could it perhaps be because people keep on paying them?

If price hikes continue at some point the customer base will shrink so much that the company has to reduce prices or go out of business.

That is where GW are headed.

That is where the hobby is headed - a small core of very affluent people. Much akin to aforementioned luxury car owners.


If people stopped and thought for a moment, i.e. stopped being selfish...

Applies to a great many things here in the UK.

If you are right then you have nothing to be concerned about eh ? GW will go under or adjust and you wont have to moan about their high prices anymore. So in fact people enjoying their hobby and buying stuff is a good thing as it will speed up this process. I don't know what you are upset.

The only thing that seems selfish is trying to guilt trip and prevent people from buying stuff for their chosen hobby because someone cant afford it therefore nobody should be allowed... Seems.. Well .. selfish ?

I definitely think it's fortunate there are some really good, quality games available at a lower price and entry point. In part, many of those flourished (Mantic included) due to GW being even more avaricious in the past (think 10 or so years ago) which really left some spaces open in a market they had largely dominated.

Games like Infinity, the Mantic games, X-Wing and numerous other sci-fi entries (if you exclude the historicals scene, which might have been helped a bit - Flames of War was always seen as a 'graduation' game from GW games) they all benefited from the time when GW had a lot less variety in its content, wasn't doing anything new, and with the lack of Specialist games the entry price point was much higher than it is today.

You have also had a diaspora of talented games creators that have left GW and moved on to other companies. To name just a few, Mantic was founded by ex-GW, Flames of War/Battlefront as well, the Battlefront games were authored by Warwick Kinrade (who did the Imperial Armour/Forge World books). Warlord Games (bolt action, Gates of Antares amongst others) has got Rick Priestly, literally the father of 40k, doing games development for them (!) So it is very likely that the 'soul' of the games that you like within GW exist elsewhere, simply because they are being made by the same people. Quite often the writers have more scope for adding their own input as well with those companies, as they are away from the corporate restrictions of GW.

So.. don't feel trapped and feel forced to pay those prices, look at what other options are available (is what I am trying to say)

 Argive wrote:


If you are right then you have nothing to be concerned about eh ? GW will go under or adjust and you wont have to moan about their high prices anymore. So in fact people enjoying their hobby and buying stuff is a good thing as it will speed up this process. I don't know what you are upset.

The only thing that seems selfish is trying to guilt trip and prevent people from buying stuff for their chosen hobby because someone cant afford it therefore nobody should be allowed... Seems.. Well .. selfish ?

Yeah, yeah.

I'd rather see an increased player base, to bring in more and more players. That in turn should bring costs down, with more money floating about, supposedly it's basic supply and demand economics.

If that is selfish, well...

I live in a relatively affluent part of mid/north Essex. Prior to the pandemic you couldn't get a game of anything tabletop outside of a handful of well established clubs like Wayland in Hockley, or the Chelmsford bunker, I think there's a small relatively obscure club in Colchester also, those or GW's stores in Chelmsford and Colchester.

People look at GW's hobby and see it as a very expensive hobby that they don't want to get into. The GW side of the hobby at least, seems to have become more one of miniature collecting and showing off for the social media generation, rather than wargaming, which goes back to my point of "prestige".

Given that GW is the highest profile company out there Is people's perception of the hobby, and the distinct lack of a player base in many areas, good for growing the hobby from our perspective as hobbyists?

GW and people with attiudes like yours, who support GW's business practice, do the hobby no favours.

Rich man poor man shouldn't even be part of the hobby.

 Overread wrote:
How often to customers not buying something result in a company lowering prices but maintaining the same product quality and volume?

It's VERY rare that happens. Typically when a market stops buying entirely (or en-mass) the company has to restructure. This might mean dropping a lot of product lines; dropping a lot of the company bulk and downsizing.

So you might well get cheaper warhammer- probably at a lower quality without black library without forgeworld without as much art or fluff etc...

By your logic those who can't afford should just sit staring at the wall!

There are lots of ways to get into the hobby (Even GW ) without being bank breaking. That said if there are people who seriously cannot afford it then, well, yes they will have to stare at the wall. Or play and promote other games they can afford. It's a luxury productline not food or water.




Also at present GW has seen their market GROW significantly over the years. So they are raising prices at the normal time; they are seeing the market grow and they are seeing what works and what fails. In short we are still very far from the critical mass point where they overprice themselves out of the market in the extreme.

And, as we all know, the poor deserve nothing but cold concrete, moldy bread, and brackish water.




The poor deserve to have hobbies and luxuries as much as you do mate.

stratigo wrote:


The poor deserve to have hobbies and luxuries as much as you do mate.

I never said they don't deserve to have hobbies. Just that they don't "deserve" a specific one which is only one company of many in a single market. Just like you can't justify everyone having a DSLR camera or a drone etc.. There are many hobbies that simply price people out; you can't guilt trip fans nor a company into supporting a market they aren't aiming for. GW isn't aiming for the bottom end of affordability with their product; its not a market they are "chasing". Other companies ARE chasing or at least are affordable to those markets.

You can wargame on the cheap; perhaps it means you have to put a ibt more effort into promoting the game locally for your area, but otherwise there are cheap options. GW, Mantic, PP, etc.... none of the companies are required (legally nor morally) to make their products affordable to all. I'm sure GW and others do their best (within the bounds of also making a profit and income) to keep their price as low as they can.

It would less of an issue if, like homeownership, most people never had any expectation of buying GW minis. However, many of us have been buying their product for decades and gradually been priced out. It’s hard not to feel betrayed when we have such a long, emotional investment in the “hobby” even through GW’s darkest days only to feel like we were forced out. And this is happening across the board in many of the pastimes where we found happiness, in succession, so it hits harder.

People feel it more when something is taken away than if they never had it at all.

 Overread wrote:
I'm sure GW and others do their best (within the bounds of also making a profit and income) to keep their price as low as they can.

Hahahaha


Oh wait you're serious.

GW cultivated their Apple-like cult for a reason. They can jack up prices yearly and the conspicuous consumers will be on here bragging about how they can afford the new hundred dollar 5 man Cadian box or whatever.

It's the triumph of marketing over economic decision making.

 Overread wrote:


I never said they don't deserve to have hobbies. Just that they don't "deserve" a specific one which is only one company of many in a single market.

Why?

Give us one good cogent reason, that isn't the usual "it's the way it is", why people should not be able to afford to enjoy GW's part of the hobby, especially those who have invested their time and money in GW's products to date? And other than GW's shareholders dividends what detriment would GW pricing themselves more affordably have on the hobby - and no quality does not have to be sacrificed, other more affordable companies have shown us that?


Saying that people don't "deserve" is like a snobbish rich person sneering at someone less wealthy who's accidentally been let into the private members club - "oh you couldn't possibly afford to live the way I do, you have no place in my circles"...

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I'm sure GW and others do their best (within the bounds of also making a profit and income) to keep their price as low as they can.

Hahahaha


Oh wait you're serious.

GW cultivated their Apple-like cult for a reason. They can jack up prices yearly and the conspicuous consumers will be on here bragging about how they can afford the new hundred dollar 5 man Cadian box or whatever.

It's the triumph of marketing over economic decision making.

Their shareholders have literally said to never lower the prices and they listen, which is all the more baffling.

You are trying to justify entitlement.

My point is that no one is entitled to luxury products. They are priced at what they are priced at. Companies choose (within reason) what segment of the market they aim for and they go for that.




Sure I'd love if everyone could afford and was able to play with warhammer models - the more the better. I don't disagree. But at the same time I don't agree that the best solution is for GW to fight for the bottom barrel prices for their product. Indeed aiming at that segment would come at a cost to other things. At the same time sure if someone rose to be as big as GW in their own market GW might well be able to find ways to operate with lower prices. I just don't think they'd be earthshatteringly lower than they are now.




I'd also note that every single hobby I'm aware of has gone up in price - even MTG card packs have gone up over 10 years or so in price (and that's after going up over 20 years as well). Camera gear, cars, most things have gone up - we live in an enconomic system that has slaved itself to the concept of ever increasing values - even if in relative terms we are no better off (if not slightly worse off).

It's a debate for another place, but it's more a consequence of of prices keeping up with inflation but wages staying relatively stagnant, at least in the American context.