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Rob Lee wrote:
Oh, there you go again, bragging about what you scored.

Your hobby budget was clearly of sufficient level already, given the multiple hobbies you've stated it funds. Such a difficulty having to choose between MtG or 40k, whilst having multiple other hobbies.

And your right, I don't need to put words into your mouth, your doing a good job of that yourself. Not everyone is you. Not everyone lives in Germany. Your situation, financial or otherwise, is not the same as someone else's.

Please look up the English terms condescension and patronising. Do you get how you come across? I believe that's been said before, if not to you, about persons such as you.

Don't know about anyone else but I've heard enough from the "you're lazy, I have no empathy" brigade.

None of you ever add any value to the discussion, the community, or the hobby as a whole, and you don't do yourself any favours - you just come across as a, a word that I probably cannot use here, whilst trying to keep at least a level of politeness.

I believe several people have stated that already. There's a very good response to multiple people's points a page or two back, a very long one. Suggest you go read it and take it on board if you haven't already.

Or, you can carry on telling people they're lazy and whining, as though you are some superior being.

Arrogance, much?

Your responses to him are so bizarre.

JWBS wrote:


Your responses to him are so bizarre.

No more bizarre than his continual assertion that if people aren't doing as he does, continue to be aggrieved by price hikes, they're all lazy and whining.

Rob Lee wrote:

JWBS wrote:


Your responses to him are so bizarre.

No more bizarre than his continual assertion that if people aren't doing as he does, continue to be aggrieved by price hikes, they're all lazy and whining.

Show me where he said you or anyone else is lazy please.

JWBS wrote:

Rob Lee wrote:

JWBS wrote:


Your responses to him are so bizarre.

No more bizarre than his continual assertion that if people aren't doing as he does, continue to be aggrieved by price hikes, they're all lazy and whining.

Show me where he said you or anyone else is lazy please.

I'll assume you've read his posts and can't see it...

Rob Lee wrote:

JWBS wrote:

Rob Lee wrote:

JWBS wrote:


Your responses to him are so bizarre.

No more bizarre than his continual assertion that if people aren't doing as he does, continue to be aggrieved by price hikes, they're all lazy and whining.

Show me where he said you or anyone else is lazy please.

I'll assume you've read his posts and can't see it...

I have. I didn't see the repeated claims that you're lazy. Can you quote them please?

JWBS wrote:

I have. I didn't see the repeated claims that you're lazy. Can you quote them please?

No I won't quote them.

You know full well I didn't say he's singled any one person out. Don't be disingenuous. Been quite a lot of that already in this thread.

It's his general attitude. One shared by several people commenting here.

I am not the only, nor the first, to call it.

soviet13 wrote:
Quick show of hands: has anyone in this thread been priced out of the hobby by this price increase?

Yup.

Value for money however does not correlate with being unable to afford something. I can afford GW's prices, it does not mean I won't balk at what they're asking. I want to get a GSC army, and frankly it is simply not worth my money and the investment, so yes- GW have priced me out and I'm not going to enable them by paying their prices.

What I've done instead is buy some lovely Koralon minis from Void (as they are now available again from Seb Games, who is also in the process of reviving said game) as those Arakton minis are still great even 20 years later and they make a nice affordable core for playing any number of games, and can even be used as GSC minis if need be. If I do buy a GW kit for one of my armies, I'll use parts from Reaper Bones to stretch it as far as possible. With a little green stuffing and some cheap donor bits from Reaper, you can get 10 Blightkings out of a single box for example.

Rob Lee wrote:

JWBS wrote:

I have. I didn't see the repeated claims that you're lazy. Can you quote them please?

No I won't quote them. There is no need to. If you have read them you know full well he hasn't specified any one person. Nor did I say he has.

It's his general attitude. One shared by several people commenting here.

I am not the only, nor the first, to call it.

Oh I see. You could quote them, but there's no need, so you won't. Also, he hasn't specified anyone is lazy (nor even written the word "Lazy" or any recognised synonyms of the word), and also it's actually his attitude that is the problem. Thanks, that's a lot clearer and makes loads of sense.

Oh do one.

The word lazy appears several times across several posts he's made the past couple of days, usually in the same sentence as whining.

I won't quote them, because you can read the same posts. I'm sure you're quite capable. I believe others have quoted him also. So, yeah, no need to.

JWBS wrote:

Rob Lee wrote:

JWBS wrote:

I have. I didn't see the repeated claims that you're lazy. Can you quote them please?

No I won't quote them. There is no need to. If you have read them you know full well he hasn't specified any one person. Nor did I say he has.

It's his general attitude. One shared by several people commenting here.

I am not the only, nor the first, to call it.

Oh I see. You could quote them, but there's no need, so you won't. Also, he hasn't specified anyone is lazy (nor even written the word "Lazy" or any recognised synonyms of the word), and also it's actually his attitude that is the problem. Thanks, that's a lot clearer and makes loads of sense.

The irony that you don't want to do a simple 2 second search for the word "lazy" in this forum...

I've no idea who either of you are talking about as you're both playing the pronoun game but there are numerous instances of this word ITT, and not just on this page.

Rob Lee wrote:
Oh do one.

Heh

I won't quote them, because you can read the same posts. I'm sure you're quite capable.

Yeah but you know where he's said it and I don't, I'll have to read a ton in an attempt to prove a claim you've made, whereas you can easily just point to the evidence that substantiates your accusation. So has he actually said it, or he hasn't, and it's his attitude that you don't like? I think I was a bit hasty now in declaring the clarity of your argument.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

JWBS wrote:

Rob Lee wrote:

JWBS wrote:

I have. I didn't see the repeated claims that you're lazy. Can you quote them please?

No I won't quote them. There is no need to. If you have read them you know full well he hasn't specified any one person. Nor did I say he has.

It's his general attitude. One shared by several people commenting here.

I am not the only, nor the first, to call it.

Oh I see. You could quote them, but there's no need, so you won't. Also, he hasn't specified anyone is lazy (nor even written the word "Lazy" or any recognised synonyms of the word), and also it's actually his attitude that is the problem. Thanks, that's a lot clearer and makes loads of sense.

The irony that you don't want to do a simple 2 second search for the word "lazy" in this forum...

I've no idea who either of you are talking about as you're both playing the pronoun game but there are numerous instances of this word ITT, and not just on this page.

What precisely has it to do with you anyhow? No-one was responding to you and as far as I'm aware you've not been a part of the discourse this past few hours.

Technically you're still not as your trolling.

Do carry on though.

Rob Lee wrote:
What precisely has it to do with you anyhow? No-one was responding to you and as far as I'm aware you've not been a part of the discourse this past few hours.

Technically you're still not as your trolling.

Do carry on though.

Who is being exclusionary now?

I'm not excluding him.

He can carry on trolling all he likes. As can you. Fill your boots.

Rob Lee wrote:
What precisely has it to do with you anyhow? No-one was responding to you and as far as I'm aware you've not been a part of the discourse this past few hours.

Technically you're still not as your trolling.

Do carry on though.

Again, bizarre. "What makes you think it's appropriate for you to reply to public messages on a public forum unless you're invited by name, especially if what your replying to is more than [arbitrary measurement of time] old?
You were right about him accusing people of laziness though, as has been shown.

I'm struggling to see what you actually want to happen. As with every hobby, you cut your cloth accordingly. If you can't or won't or you can but feel GW doesn't offer value for money any more, then you either make do with what you have or you play another game that does offer value for money or you find another hobby that you can stomach the prices for. Beyond that, what else do you want?

JWBS wrote:

Rob Lee wrote:
What precisely has it to do with you anyhow? No-one was responding to you and as far as I'm aware you've not been a part of the discourse this past few hours.

Technically you're still not as your trolling.

Do carry on though.

Again, bizarre. "What makes you think it's appropriate for you to reply to public messages on a public forum unless you're invited by name, especially if what your replying to is more than [arbitrary measurement of time] old?
You were right about him accusing people of laziness though, as has been shown.

Whatev.

You want to troll on my comments, fill your boots.

Rob Lee wrote:

Whatev.

You want to troll on my comments, fill your boots.

I'm sure you're right though that it is 'GW prices' that stop you finding a gaming club that works out.

soviet13 wrote:
Quick show of hands: has anyone in this thread been priced out of the hobby by this price increase?

This particular price rise? Not as such, more the continual price rises far above inflation. The 'straw' is having to go through the cost of yet another version, all the re-released rules, codices etc, just to keep up. Nah. This will be the first edition of 40k I haven't bothered with since 3rd when I started.

So this is the final warning for posters in general in this thread.

People are going to have different views on what is or isn't acceptable prices or the like and it's fine to express your view either way.

What doesn't help and we do not want is just endless back and forth sniping, essentially raking over the same old ground ad nauseam, this is especially true if degenerates further into little more than bickering about what people may or may not have said. Comes a point you have to accept the other person disagrees and move on, in the hope that there might be something relevant to discuss or let other people post something on the topic.

-snipped due to mod post-

soviet13 wrote:


I'm sure you're right though that it is 'GW prices' that stop you finding a gaming club that works out.

Yep, I'm sure that's it. Not the venue prices, insurance, and pushy parents, putting paid to the two clubs that did try to get off the ground in my local area over 10 years.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

soviet13 wrote:
Quick show of hands: has anyone in this thread been priced out of the hobby by this price increase?

This particular price rise? Not as such, more the continual price rises far above inflation. The 'straw' is having to go through the cost of yet another version, all the re-released rules, codices etc, just to keep up. Nah. This will be the first edition of 40k I haven't bothered with since 3rd when I started.

I definitely hear that. I haven't played 40k for a long time anyway, I just collect the models, but right up until 5th edition or so I was still buying codexes to keep up with the lore. These big glossy hardcovers full of typos that are replaced in almost no time and all the other cards and general DLC kills any interest I might have had to get back into it. It's definitely what stopped me from picking up Necromunda too, which I used to love back in the day.

soviet13 wrote:
Quick show of hands: has anyone in this thread been priced out of the hobby by this price increase?

Interesting thread, as to your question in particular. For army sized collections..? Yes. I don't see the value for money in it as I once did. Underworlds, Warcry and Kill Team will no doubt still draw my interest, as the price point for playing those is more palatable, if only because you don't need such a sizable volume of models to play and I'm a sucker for nice plastic sculpts. That being said, some of the newer infantry kits have hit a price point that I'm uncomfortable paying, £27 for 10 battle sisters and £20 for a (admittedly nice looking) named character? That's through discounters as well.

(How GW have an Antipodean audience is beyond me!)

In short... Can I afford it? Yes. Do I now want to stump up the cash? As nice as they are, grudgingly, no. (You can bet I'll keep an eye out for the Christmas deals and box splitting via e-bay though.)

I bear GW no ill will either, I think they are brilliant at what they do and in terms of current releases and plastic content they're as good and exciting they've ever been in the times I've been playing their games, on and off since 2000.

In short then; just as I no longer bother with other boutique luxuries in my life, I'll be paying a lot less attention to GW going forward.

For what it is worth, I decided the GW hobby wasn't worth the money for me a little more than ten years ago.
The vast majority of my money has been going elsewhere, despite the fact that I wouldn't have to eat white rice or something to afford their kits now. I've gone multiple years without buying anything branded GW, even if I still pick up the occasional kit secondhand on eBay these last couple years.

To those of you put off by this price increase: There are a ton of alternatives out there which offer better games, better prices, and nice miniatures. I haven't regretted a minute.

It might be a bit harder to find a game with a random person in a store, but honestly, my impression is that most games of 40k are not in fact... Fun.

Give something else a try! You might like it more than you think! I still stick around here to ogle the new and largely cool miniatures GW puts out. But you don't have to own artwork to appreciate it, and I get roughly the same enjoyment out of seeing the cool miniatures someone else painted as buying them and adding them to the mountain of shame. The mountain of shame mostly consists of things that aren't fun to play with...

Best of luck to all, but GW will continue to raise prices every year until enough people stop buying. The Start Collecting boxes were largely a response to their lack of sales (imo).

soviet13 wrote:
Quick show of hands: has anyone in this thread been priced out of the hobby by this price increase?

Yes and no. I mean, I could afford them still, because fortunately I don't have money issues currently. But most of the stuff (mainly, anything except starters and some SC boxes) are IMHO clearly not worth what they ask, so I won't be buying any. The current raise has made me revisit what would I consider worth it.

Im broadly with Gallahad

The price hikes havent excluded me but they were a nudge to wander into the non-gw wilds to dabble with strange new games, which i get isnt always an option if GW is the only game in your town

So not priced out but it would take a level of rules compentcy that with current sales GW dont have to indulge me with to pull me back in

Ill skim the freeby 9e rules as being one of the cat herders for my club I wouldnt like anyone to not get a game on any given night

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Im broadly with Gallahad

The price hikes havent excluded me but they were a nudge to wander into the non-gw wilds to dabble with strange new games, which i get isnt always an option if GW is the only game in your town

So not priced out but it would take a level of rules compentcy that with current sales GW dont have to indulge me with to pull me back in

Ill skim the freeby 9e rules as being one of the cat herders for my club I wouldnt like anyone to not get a game on any given night

this so much. The prices went slowly into the territory where i started to look for alternatives, first for units i don't like the GW model for price and later also becasue some of the rules were just ehh.

Also in my case it helped that GW decided to stop R&H as a line, throwing me into the wild.

Rob Lee wrote:

soviet13 wrote:
Quick show of hands: has anyone in this thread been priced out of the hobby by this price increase?

Out of buying GW product? Technically I have. Prices have risen on what I was considering buying this year. I have other things that money could be spent on. The least expensive purchases get made first.

Given that I am currently locked down, as we all technically are (not that you'd know it given how some are carrying on), under advice to shield until June 30th, don't drive so rely on public transport that has been decimated in my area, cannot visit my regular gaming buddy some 20 miles away as a result, it is a case of being able to justify purchasing GW products.

Guessing we won't be seeing your hand though...

So, I had a whole post typed up about how you can , but deleted it.

Let's try being constructive instead of destructive instead, because the part that you clearly didn't get from my posts is that I know how you feel and that it sucks to have no money for your hobbies. It was much less about how I'm better than you, but more about how you can stay in the hobby despite having little to spend.

This is what I did to get out of the mess, maybe it helps you staying with the hobby as well:
1) Find out how much money you can afford to set aside for your hobbies. Know that the sad answer to this can be 0 if you really are with you back to the wall, but more on that later.
I had a physical jar of money where I could drop spare change, but also tried to put in a 20 at the end of the month. In some months it simply didn't work out, in many it did. Taking the money "out of the system" helps with actually making sure you don't spend it on other things, while protecting your fragile financial situation from overspending when you feel like you can afford buying some fun in hard times, but actually can't.
Note that it doesn't need to be a 20, even 10 GBP will add up to 120 per year. For me to buy all of orktober required saving less than 14 GBP per month, which is roughly equivalent to drinking a single pint of beer every Saturday.

2) What others hobbies do you have, and how much do you spend on each of them? Do you really need to spend money on them?
Make an honest assessment of how happy each of them makes you. The main reason I dropped MtG was not because it was more expensive than 40k (to me, it wasn't), but because I cared less about the gaming group, and some of them were playing 40k anyways.
When I did this, I have found that I kept spending money on games despite having a rather large steam backlog of 20+ games, I kept buying books I found interesting despite still having some I haven't read. Some hobbies were just about killing time, and it's not hard to kill time without spending money. In general, optimize spending money you are spending in your free time, like eating at home/bringing food and drinks from home rather than ordering pizza with the guys, staying sober on a night out and similar things can quickly free up funds - not only for your hobby, but also for the financial problems you are facing.

3) Stay with the hobby. There were times for me when there was just an empty jar, and it remained empty for months. However, you probably already have an fully functional army sitting around, so you can always keep playing. If the meta has shifted and your army sucks (6th/7th edition orks for me), you can still ask your opponents to tone down their lists, play narrative games and/or campaigns or play multiplayer games where your allies help you out.
If you are more focused on modelling or painting, every gaming group has at least one person who hates to paint and/or build their models. Offer to paint or magnetize their models for them, for a small charge. That way you can keep painting/modeling and earn money to put into your hobby jar.
I never had a pile of shame, but if you have one, try to reduce that first - either by building and painting the things in there, or by selling or trading them.

4) Organize your hobby spendings. Make a list of things you planned and make sure to put all your remaining hobbies on the list. Also, don't forget stuff that will be released in future, like 9th edition, CA and maybe your next codex. If you plan on buying them, you need those things pretty much as soon as they drop, so having money in your jar to pre-order them feels really good. Also don't forget paints and primer. Prioritize that list with the things you want most first and the things you don't need last. You add, remove and reorder that list at any time. but don't every spend money on something that is not on the list. Impulse buys are taking away money from the things you actually want.
Since playing is more important that painting to me, I also organized all my planed purchases into packages of things that mades sense to play. Taking the orktober example, a single buggy wouldn't have made sense, as my collection was mostly infantry, walkers and battlewagons, so a single fast ork unit wouldn't have fit in. So I saved up until I could actually get enough stuff to field an army that made sense and bought it all at once - saving me shipping costs in the process. While doing so, I pushed back most DG purchases and thanks to Thrakka, I still don't have any Deathshrouds.

5) Be patient, and get your stuff as cheap as possible. Never, ever buy from GW directly, go to a FLGS with good discounts or an online retailer instead. When you order from online retailers, make sure check multiple stores - I currently have three who might or might not be the cheapest, depending on what you buy. Make sure to get free shipping any time your order, ask other players if they need stuff as well. Make sure to let your friends and relatives know what you want before your birthday and Christmas (or equivalent holiday) or have them gift you vouchers/money for your jar. Having your sister buy you a box of ork warbikers totally beats getting socks again. Regularly check ebay for the things you want, check if any of the online stores are having a sale. For BL books, keep an eye out for humble bundles. It might be obvious, but do the same for your other hobbies you decided to keep.
If you are talented (I'm not), try recasting models/bits or paper-craft. We have a player who (also due to money troubles) build 3k points of guard vehicles to go with his infantry from paper, and they look awesome. Third party models and 3D printing are an option as well, but you have to decide whether that's for you. Personally, I prefer GW's look for orks and DG.

And for the record, I did not call anyone lazy. I said that complaining instead of taking action to improve your situation is lazy.

 Jidmah wrote:

5) Be patient, and get your stuff as cheap as possible. Never, ever buy from GW directly, go to a FLGS with good discounts or an online retailer instead. When you order from online retailers, make sure check multiple stores - I currently have three who might or might not be the cheapest, depending on what you buy. Make sure to get free shipping any time your order, ask other players if they need stuff as well.

You are aware if you already get a nice hefty 20% discount from your flgs/dealer. Then GW put the price up 20%. You are still paying 20% more now than before even with your kind flgs/dealer's 20% off.
Shopping for a discount percentage doesn't dodge the same exact GW price increase.