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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Galas wrote:
The price bump to necron warriors is reasonable but a little dissapointing not because I believe they should be more expensive (necron warriors for 12 vs intercessors at 20 are ok) but because I would have wished for a bigger point increase for everything.

The new weapon is very good. If it costs 0 points, even at 1 shot at 14" it has a good punch, F5 and FP-2 is nothing to ignore.

I gotta disagree. Two S4 AP-1 shots is probably going to be better than one S5 AP-2. Then you need to get within 7" for rapid fire range.

Also it's great to know Necrons won't be getting redone Dynasty Codes! No readjusting or two parters! That's only for Marines, everyone!

What a fething joke.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
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Indiana

Percentages in these discussions is pretty deceptive. Low cost units are always going to be significantly more impacted.

A cultist at 4 points is changed in increments of 25% so even a 1 point change is going to be more than most units will be.

I will withhold judgement until we will see how the points costs of things are overall. I know that with the change to detachments, and how army list construction will change as a result, I can see more expensive basic troops having less of an impact than people are concerned about.

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
The price bump to necron warriors is reasonable but a little dissapointing not because I believe they should be more expensive (necron warriors for 12 vs intercessors at 20 are ok) but because I would have wished for a bigger point increase for everything.

The new weapon is very good. If it costs 0 points, even at 1 shot at 14" it has a good punch, F5 and FP-2 is nothing to ignore.

I gotta disagree. Two S4 AP-1 shots is probably going to be better than one S5 AP-2. Then you need to get within 7" for rapid fire range.

Also it's great to know Necrons won't be getting redone Dynasty Codes! No readjusting or two parters! That's only for Marines, everyone!

What a fething joke.


I suppose it depends. I mean, in a vaccum yeah but the moment you have ways to make your necrons gain " of range or double tap at max range, etc...

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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 Leth wrote:
Percentages in these discussions is pretty deceptive. Low cost units are always going to be significantly more impacted.

A cultist at 4 points is changed in increments of 25% so even a 1 point change is going to be more than most units will be.

I will withhold judgement until we will see how the points costs of things are overall. I know that with the change to detachments, and how army list construction will change as a result, I can see more expensive basic troops having less of an impact than people are concerned about.

I don't understand. You can't raise the cost of a 4 pt model by 10% but you can certainly raise the cost of a 20 pt model by 25%. They apparently chose not to do so. That doesn't mean a 25% increase for the 4 pt model is somehow not a 25% increase.
   
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On the Internet

I think it's a bit premature to assume no Necron mechanics are changing based on seeing the Dynastic code of a single tomb world.

On a dofferent note I think we can declare the "everything is going up 20%" claims that were being made when they did the initial points reveal dead and buried. Even if armies lose 200 points it looks like they aren't losing 20% of every unit universally.

And to the complaint about Necrons being more elite than Marines: that died in 5th when Necron Warriors went to a 4+ to make them play more differently than the more heavilly armoured Immortals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
 Leth wrote:
Percentages in these discussions is pretty deceptive. Low cost units are always going to be significantly more impacted.

A cultist at 4 points is changed in increments of 25% so even a 1 point change is going to be more than most units will be.

I will withhold judgement until we will see how the points costs of things are overall. I know that with the change to detachments, and how army list construction will change as a result, I can see more expensive basic troops having less of an impact than people are concerned about.

I don't understand. You can't raise the cost of a 4 pt model by 10% but you can certainly raise the cost of a 20 pt model by 25%. They apparently chose not to do so. That doesn't mean a 25% increase for the 4 pt model is somehow not a 25% increase.

It was a 50% increase for the Cultist, and while they didn't move Intercessors that far we don't know how far other things moved. For all we know that's the smallest points shift for Primaris, or wargear will be seeing a points shift that covers the gap.

All I know is everytime I see the wild claims about ehat GW is doing wrong with 9th I start quoting Holmes: "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

I just requite more clay before I start making bricks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 18:51:04


 
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So a 1ppm bump? That's not bad, works out to about 9%, so better than intercessors and a lot better than cultists.

I assume that's the CA2019 point cost?
Really, it just puts warriors back at their original point value in the index and 8th edition codex.
Definitely workable.
----

The new gun is... actually kinda bad (barring changes to various rules). It can't double tap if they teleport in, may or may not be able to for overwatch, and is competing with better weapons in the same and other slots.
There may be some form of shenanigans that makes it viable, but that range band for a rapid fire weapon (rather than assault) is just bad.
----

So as the first 'faction focus' article, I'm underwhelmed and not looking forward to the weeks of them. The copy/pasted a a subfaction trait and a few special rules out of the current codex. Completely unchanged, which is what I'd expect, since they're previewing the edition, not the codex. However, I expected they'd talk more about how the necrons are affected by 9th ed. rules changes, not just yammer about existing codex snippets.

Of the three bits of information (blast on death ray, new gun, points), the most useful thing is the points for the base unit.
Not mentioning if they've spent any time fixing reanimation protocols is annoying, especially as the new walker article implies the timing changed (at the very least). Focusing on how the Command Phase affects necrons would have been nice.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2020/06/15 19:10:49


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
The price bump to necron warriors is reasonable but a little dissapointing not because I believe they should be more expensive (necron warriors for 12 vs intercessors at 20 are ok) but because I would have wished for a bigger point increase for everything.

The new weapon is very good. If it costs 0 points, even at 1 shot at 14" it has a good punch, F5 and FP-2 is nothing to ignore.

I gotta disagree. Two S4 AP-1 shots is probably going to be better than one S5 AP-2. Then you need to get within 7" for rapid fire range.

Also it's great to know Necrons won't be getting redone Dynasty Codes! No readjusting or two parters! That's only for Marines, everyone!

What a fething joke.


They're clearly referring to them in the current codex/early 9th ed. Remind me what the necron rules are in pariah? Likewkse there is obviously a new codex on the way unless you think all those new units and loadouts will be in that one box exclusive pamphlet.

Claim down.
   
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I want to say one thing that's been bugging me for a long time. It's not specific about this release, but we are seeing it said by the community. No, players do not need to be grateful that they get releases. Games workshop, as a company, are in the business of selling models, books and other accessories to their players. They release new stuff to serve the business need of making profit, and increasing their market. Nothing wrong with that. But those who assume that we have to be kind and nice to the multi-million dollar company, or like pretty much everything that comes out, is absurd. This isn't actually anywhere near as bad for this release as it has been for some other launches, but I'm still seeing it all the time. People do not have to like the release, and people can have whatever opinion they want, because at the end of the day it's all about getting people spending cash.
   
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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Or they are opening up more design space- You can now have both a captain who gives a buff to all units within 6" but can be shut down by other abilities, or a commander who only gives that same buff to one specific unit, but at a longer range and without a counter.


For that to make sense it would need to be lot more common counter than what, 2 factions out of 30?

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Biggest issue with the article for me, isn't that it is lacking in rules for all the new Necron models, it is that they have the main section dedicated to "how they play in 9th edition" but then don't tell us how they will actually play in 9th ed.

Hell, it doesn't even tell new players how they currently play (something which the WC team on Facebook are saying is the article intent).

I fear that the vast majority of articles from now until launch are going to be similar articles that are there to just provide the daily content.
   
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 Galas wrote:
The price bump to necron warriors is reasonable but a little dissapointing not because I believe they should be more expensive (necron warriors for 12 vs intercessors at 20 are ok) but because I would have wished for a bigger point increase for everything.

The new weapon is very good. If it costs 0 points, even at 1 shot at 14" it has a good punch, F5 and FP-2 is nothing to ignore.


Warriors are junk in 8th ed so large point increase isn't reasonable at all. 2 point increase would have been about same % increase as marine troop while being worse AND getting hit by nerfbat in 9th ed core rules. Marines don't care about blast rule. Necron warriors have to subject themselves as they pay too much for RP to not even try to get it. As it is during 8th ed they were totally outclassed already by ghost ark. The "warrior support vehicle" you took without warriors to do what warriors used to be there for...Doing everything except doing it better. And unless ghost arks get huge paint increase trend likely to continues. Only issue being needing some infantry tax to bring ghost arks. But with 9th ed buffing vehicles and hitting hard light infantry like warriors the ghost ark price increase needs to be LOT more than 9% to make a difference.

New gun comes likely popular with veil of darkness if you don't use it to pull stuff out of 3 pointed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 19:31:48


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They haven’t even announced a new Necrons codex, of course the previewed rules are the same we have now (excluding new stuff from the Indomitus box and the BLAST keyword).
These “previews” are going to be pretty useless, new point costs and BLAST weapons aside.

That said, the new weapon option on Warriors is laughably bad. 14” on a unit that moves 5” is bad, full stop. Being on a 32mm base, a Warrior back in the ranks of its large unit may not even be in range of the enemy most of the time.


 
   
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Kdash wrote:

The only new info we got was the profile for the new Warriors gun and that the Doomscythe gun is getting Blast.

I was expecting a lot more and now i'm not looking forward to the rest of this "faction focus series".


And confirmation d3 blasts indeed get max shots vs 6+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Aenar wrote:
They haven’t even announced a new Necrons codex, of course the previewed rules are the same we have now (excluding new stuff from the Indomitus box and the BLAST keyword).
These “previews” are going to be pretty useless, new point costs and BLAST weapons aside.

That said, the new weapon option on Warriors is laughably bad. 14” on a unit that moves 5” is bad, full stop. Being on a 32mm base, a Warrior back in the ranks of its large unit may not even be in range of the enemy most of the time.


Too bad it's not assault weapon. Would suit my nephreks just fine doing 11/12 move and then fire.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 19:37:49


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
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i must really be out of touch, last time i played 40K, necron warriors were equal pretty much with space marines...
and with their reconstruction thing, maybe better in some battles.

SF
   
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StarFyre wrote:
i must really be out of touch, last time i played 40K, necron warriors were equal pretty much with space marines...
and with their reconstruction thing, maybe better in some battles.

SF


They are now 4+ save with worse gun than marines have(RF24" with -1 AP...when marines have 30" range and -1 and can get to even -2...). Resurection protocol SOUNDS nice(you come back on 5+! Yey!) until you realize you need to have survivors to roll it and 20 T4 4+ wounds is not easy to take down. And immortals despite having 3+ save isn't much better. Just 10 wounds sucks.

They most definitely need to be lot cheaper than marines(who btw have 2 wounds per model vs your 1...So 1 basic primaris marine is 20 pts, 3+, 2 wounds vs your 24 pts for 2 4+ save wounds).

Warriors haven't been hot for necrons for long time. For long time in 8th it was immortals with their tesla's and proccing more hits on 4+ or 5+. And these days even those are often reduced favouring wraiths, destroyers and tomb blades.

And of course in december chapter approved ghost ark got so cheap that for mere 10 pts more than 10 warriors you get more wounds, bigger toughhess, quantum shielding, same firepower and FLY keyword + faster speed...You lose in area of board you can control and don't have resurection protocol(in the offchance you get to use it) but heal 1 wound per turn automatically(and thanks to QS this actually gets to see some use). If this was troop you might not even see any necron infantry anymore...But for CP you needed either warriors or immortals.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/06/15 19:49:27


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




yeah i got rid of my 40K models years ago. i had a metal grey knights army. then got the plastic ones to do a paladin army cause it looks cool but then got out of warhammer fantasy/40k (my main was lizardmen, but then rumors came out that they wont get anymore actual army unit models anymore - just kept a couple cool models).

that said, i must have some of the new necron stuff. looks cool.

SF
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dudeface wrote:

They're clearly referring to them in the current codex/early 9th ed. Remind me what the necron rules are in pariah? Likewkse there is obviously a new codex on the way unless you think all those new units and loadouts will be in that one box exclusive pamphlet.

Claim down.


This is a very good point. Once the new Codex is closer then the codes and other rules will probably get tweaked and there will be a whole series of special previews just for that book. But for now its just about how the current Codex works with 9th.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 19:52:58


 
   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

Now we have three points of data in the 9th Edition Points Increase section:

Intercessors 17 -> 20
Necron Warriors 11 -> 12
Chaos Cultist 4 -> 6

So for the price of a minimum unit of Intercessors, we have gone from:

8th Edition
Intercessors 5 (85) - Necron Warriors 8 (88) - Chaos Cultist 21 (84)

9th Edition
Intercessors 5 (100) - Necron Warriors 8 (96) - Chaos Cultist 17 (102)

Not bad for the old Necron Warrior. They have effectively gotten a points cut compared to both of the units. At a 1 point increase, the only units that will not be more expensive by comparison are those worth more points that increase by less than 1 point per 10 points of current value.
   
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On the Internet

I strongly feel some people are mistaking a call for people to take it easy until we can see thr full picture for a.claim that GW is perfect and we should all sacrifice money to the altar of Space Marines.

I can't speak for everyone but all I've been advocating is less snap judgements that lead people to sell/burn their collections only to need to repurchase stuff later when they discover that they actually like the stuff they thought they'd hate.

It's never too late to sell your army later after all.

I've been sitting on units for a while now because I can't accurately judge what wargear I want to give them for the new edition (for an example: Assault Centurions, is the melta or flamer better in 9th? No idea).

And I'm building Black Templars so it's not like I'm starting in a strong position coming out of 8th compared to the rest of the Marine factions.

I actually think the fact that points aren't a flat increase may result in things ending up better than they are now since it means GW can try and balance the game more than a flat 20t increase would do. I can always be wrong of course, but I can imagine that with so many tournament players playtesting that there are likely good reasons for why points shifted like they did.
   
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Dakka Veteran




 ClockworkZion wrote:
I strongly feel some people are mistaking a call for people to take it easy until we can see thr full picture for a.claim that GW is perfect and we should all sacrifice money to the altar of Space Marines.

I can't speak for everyone but all I've been advocating is less snap judgements that lead people to sell/burn their collections only to need to repurchase stuff later when they discover that they actually like the stuff they thought they'd hate.

It's never too late to sell your army later after all.

I've been sitting on units for a while now because I can't accurately judge what wargear I want to give them for the new edition (for an example: Assault Centurions, is the melta or flamer better in 9th? No idea).

And I'm building Black Templars so it's not like I'm starting in a strong position coming out of 8th compared to the rest of the Marine factions.

I actually think the fact that points aren't a flat increase may result in things ending up better than they are now since it means GW can try and balance the game more than a flat 20t increase would do. I can always be wrong of course, but I can imagine that with so many tournament players playtesting that there are likely good reasons for why points shifted like they did.

This is important to highlight for everyone in general. Don't make snap judgements one way or the other. For one, there's a lot we don't know, and I know that we don't have much choice but to make guesses. For that we can blame Games workshop for their poor marketing, but for the actual contents of the rules, we simply don't actually know. Let's see what things will look like until there's actual substance to what's being said. And for Games workshop, I'd reconsider their marketing approach. This isn't the first time that they've spread details out too thin and left out key information, but this is the worst that I can remember it from a community backlash perspective in a long time.
   
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Darsath wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I strongly feel some people are mistaking a call for people to take it easy until we can see thr full picture for a.claim that GW is perfect and we should all sacrifice money to the altar of Space Marines.

I can't speak for everyone but all I've been advocating is less snap judgements that lead people to sell/burn their collections only to need to repurchase stuff later when they discover that they actually like the stuff they thought they'd hate.

It's never too late to sell your army later after all.

I've been sitting on units for a while now because I can't accurately judge what wargear I want to give them for the new edition (for an example: Assault Centurions, is the melta or flamer better in 9th? No idea).

And I'm building Black Templars so it's not like I'm starting in a strong position coming out of 8th compared to the rest of the Marine factions.

I actually think the fact that points aren't a flat increase may result in things ending up better than they are now since it means GW can try and balance the game more than a flat 20t increase would do. I can always be wrong of course, but I can imagine that with so many tournament players playtesting that there are likely good reasons for why points shifted like they did.

This is important to highlight for everyone in general. Don't make snap judgements one way or the other. For one, there's a lot we don't know, and I know that we don't have much choice but to make guesses. For that we can blame Games workshop for their poor marketing, but for the actual contents of the rules, we simply don't actually know. Let's see what things will look like until there's actual substance to what's being said. And for Games workshop, I'd reconsider their marketing approach. This isn't the first time that they've spread details out too thin and left out key information, but this is the worst that I can remember it from a community backlash perspective in a long time.

If they weren't going to continue the 9th ed previews this far out the least they could have done was release the free rules to let us get accustomed to the core mechanics before we need to worry about the missions or points changes.

I was happy to see the drip feed, but cutting it off like this does not sell 9th edition effectively.
   
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lol. You assume a) that playtesters are infallible b) they aren't driving their agenda. They are guys who have been turning with their house rules 8th ed toward pro marine gun lines, down for hordes.

They have their own agenda. They aren't interested in helping light infantry be useful seeing they have spent last years trying to get rid of those in tournaments. That pattern isn't going anywhere. It's about small units and solo models for them rather than light infantry.

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Stockholm, Sweden

Huh, that was a bit underwhelming.

The canoptek thing looks great, but that buff is really weak. Not even an aura? This thing better be dirt cheap because I wouldn't pay many points for that +1 to one single unit.

And my Warriors have been pretty useless all 8th edition, can't see that they're any better now. That weapon is of little use - it's a rare thing that my Warriors have ever gotten to shoot at 18" before being wiped off the board.

The new models are lovely, but that article sadly didn't get me very excited to dust my Necrons off. If they would have updated RP they would surely have said something about it, right? Being kinda "the" thing making Necrons unique.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 20:24:44


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 Oguhmek wrote:
Huh, that was a bit underwhelming.

The canoptek thing looks great, but that buff is really weak. Not even an aura? This thing better be dirt cheap because I wouldn't pay many points for that +1 to one single unit.



But it could stack with a normal Cryptek, which would give one particular unit +2, potentially. Could be useful.

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tneva82 wrote:
lol. You assume a) that playtesters are infallible b) they aren't driving their agenda. They are guys who have been turning with their house rules 8th ed toward pro marine gun lines, down for hordes.

They have their own agenda. They aren't interested in helping light infantry be useful seeing they have spent last years trying to get rid of those in tournaments. That pattern isn't going anywhere. It's about small units and solo models for them rather than light infantry.

Well since you clearly know so much about 9th edition you must already have the rules. Want to leak some proof or are you going to keep making empty claims and attacking people you don't know just because you don't like how things currently sound based on limited information?

And you assume too much. Not every playtested thinks the way you claim they do. Lumping a diverse group of narrative, matched and tournament players into a single group and then declaring a conspiracy is definitely reaching.
   
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 puma713 wrote:
 Oguhmek wrote:
Huh, that was a bit underwhelming.

The canoptek thing looks great, but that buff is really weak. Not even an aura? This thing better be dirt cheap because I wouldn't pay many points for that +1 to one single unit.



But it could stack with a normal Cryptek, which would give one particular unit +2, potentially. Could be useful.


Still won't help if they're wiped, which is what usually happens.

The problem with RP is not that you need a buff to the roll, it's that you so rarely get to use the rule at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 20:27:26


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Indiana

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
 Leth wrote:
Percentages in these discussions is pretty deceptive. Low cost units are always going to be significantly more impacted.

A cultist at 4 points is changed in increments of 25% so even a 1 point change is going to be more than most units will be.

I will withhold judgement until we will see how the points costs of things are overall. I know that with the change to detachments, and how army list construction will change as a result, I can see more expensive basic troops having less of an impact than people are concerned about.

I don't understand. You can't raise the cost of a 4 pt model by 10% but you can certainly raise the cost of a 20 pt model by 25%. They apparently chose not to do so. That doesn't mean a 25% increase for the 4 pt model is somehow not a 25% increase.


My point is that because something can not possibly change by less than 25% that by presenting it solely as a percantage it paints a much more deceptive picture on the overall impact the change will have on the game/an army list when it’s points change.

10 cultists is 20 more points and 10 Intercessors are 30 more points, i could present it as intercessors went up by 50% more than cultists did” naturally everyone would call this a flawed presentation of the situation. Comparing two fundamentally different units in different books is fundamentally flawed from a balance perspective

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/15 20:45:19


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Florence, KY

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If they weren't going to continue the 9th ed previews this far out the least they could have done was release the free rules to let us get accustomed to the core mechanics before we need to worry about the missions or points changes.

I was happy with the drip feed, but cutting it off like this does not sell 9th edition effectively

Just because they didn't have a rules preview today doesn't mean that they're done with them...

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 20:42:25


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 Ghaz wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
If they weren't going to continue the 9th ed previews this far out the least they could have done was release the free rules to let us get accustomed to the core mechanics before we need to worry about the missions or points changes.

I was happy with the drip feed, but cutting it off like this does not sell 9th edition effectively

Just because they didn't have a rules preview today doesn't mean that they're done with them...

Spoiler:

I watched the "preview" today and it was about painting the new minis.

I can imagine the rest of this week is going to be just about that box and not about the core rules.
   
 
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