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Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Red Corsair wrote:

Because that's the entire purpose of points....

I think it's that time of day where you need more coffee

Points allow us to ensure whole armies are roughly equivalent, not individual units in completely different factions It's never created a fair comparison between individual units.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/06/16 15:01:33


 
   
Made in se
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Stockholm, Sweden

 Oguhmek wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
On the Warhammer Daily show, Stu Black said that Reanimation Protocols for Necrons will be updated "... when their book comes around..."

Mixed weapons for Necron Warrior squads confirmed.


Yes, that sounds great. I'm very happy that they identified that the rule didn't really work. This makes everything much more interesting to me.

It also makes that article from the other day even more useless...


Also, Warrior units will be able to mix weapons in the unit - maybe Lychguard can also do this now? That would potentially make them much more useful.

Oguhmek paints Orks (and Necrons): 'Ere we go!
 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet


I like those stats. Question is how many points are they?
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Sorry so did they give away the rules for Astartes chainswords then and what is the devastating charge rule? I might have missed a few things there.


They said the following things:

- Necron Codex very early into 9th.
- Astartes chainswords are "better" than regular chainswords (no specifics)
- Bikes get "Devastating charge" for +2 Attacks on the charge and in total a bike would have 6 attacks.


The last point most likely breaks down as described above (2 Primaris attacks base, +1 for the "better" chainsword, +1 Shock Assault, +2 Devastating charge), but that is just the assumption.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 ClockworkZion wrote:

I like those stats. Question is how many points are they?


Wow! As many wounds as a Custodes Jetbike! I wasn't expecting that. Rest seems pretty standard, except for the LD 7.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Sorry so did they give away the rules for Astartes chainswords then and what is the devastating charge rule? I might have missed a few things there.


Astartes chainswords are ap-1. They previewed that a while ago.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

No wolves on Fenris wrote:Sorry so did they give away the rules for Astartes chainswords then and what is the devastating charge rule? I might have missed a few things there.

Already covered twice upthread.

Oguhmek wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
On the Warhammer Daily show, Stu Black said that Reanimation Protocols for Necrons will be updated "... when their book comes around..."

Mixed weapons for Necron Warrior squads confirmed.


Yes, that sounds great. I'm very happy that they identified that the rule didn't really work. This makes everything much more interesting to me.

It also makes that article from the other day even more useless...

According to their Facebook page, the Faction Focus articles are aimed more for those looking to play an army, not existing players. Necrons and Space Marines are in the same boat as everybody else and will have their updated rules previewed when their codex drops. At this time I don't expect any updated army-wide rules for Necrons or Space Marines in the Indomitus box.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

the_scotsman wrote:
No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Sorry so did they give away the rules for Astartes chainswords then and what is the devastating charge rule? I might have missed a few things there.


Astartes chainswords are ap-1. They previewed that a while ago.

Where did they announce that? I missed that.
   
Made in us
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

Dudeface wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
According to the stream, Primaris Bikes get a rule called "Devastating Charge" for +2 Attacks on the charge (not sure if instead or in addition to Shock Assault).


19 attacks for 3 so 2 base, 1 for chainsword, 2 for the bike 1 for shock assault is 6 each with the 1 odd attack for the sarge

Play BA for +1 attack with the assault doctrine.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





Dudeface wrote:
19 attacks for 3

That's ridiculous.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Gotta sell those new bikes that look exactly like the old bikes somehow, and you're not gonna do it by the fact that they look exactly like the old bikes.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




These bikey bois better be pretty darn pricey considering what we now know about them.
   
Made in ca
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

 Oguhmek wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
On the Warhammer Daily show, Stu Black said that Reanimation Protocols for Necrons will be updated "... when their book comes around..."

Mixed weapons for Necron Warrior squads confirmed.


Yes, that sounds great. I'm very happy that they identified that the rule didn't really work. This makes everything much more interesting to me.

It also makes that article from the other day even more useless...


Yeah, they specifically called out Opponents are able to mitigate RP too much, and gave it an overhaul. They also said you expect to bring more of your models back.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





As a Ravenwing player, I'm happy about the new bikes obviously, but don't want all my old ones useless either, so I hope points will be a significant factor. Love my old bikes.

Are we sure that devastating charge doesn't replace shock assault? Kind of like Ragnar's rule which is just a better form of shock assault. That would be more reasonable. 2A, +2 for devastating charge, +1 for chainsword for 5 attacks each (still more than Jain Zar which is so stoopid!). That's still a lot of attacks from one biker. 4W is a bit silly too, but that might make the points pretty steep (think Attack Bike).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




You can bet your lunch money you won't have left after buying the new bikes that they will be priced to move. In points, that is. Not in $. In $, they will be priced to empty your wallet.

They want you to replace your old bikes with the new bikes. I wouldn't hold out much hope of the old ones staying competitive, just like tactical marines aren't competitive with intercessors.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/16 15:12:17


 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 ClockworkZion wrote:
They could have doubled everything and we'd all be playing 3k just to get most of our toys back.


And?

What does that have to do with anything? The point limit can be 10k, wouldn't matter so long as everything is balanced relatively.

   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Stu said they'd get 6 attacks on the charge, so unless astartes chainswords give +2 attacks then the bike charge attacks seem to be in addition to, rather than replace shock assault.
   
Made in ro
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Those bikers are insane. If they're costed fairly (I know), then I have no problem, but if they're coming in at like 50% on top of the normal bikers, then they're ludicrous.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





PiñaColada wrote:
Stu said they'd get 6 attacks on the charge, so unless astartes chainswords give +2 attacks then the bike charge attacks seem to be in addition to, rather than replace shock assault.


well, that's just silly isn't it. I mean, that's more than most characters, jeez. I guess they knew that they wouldn't sell with just being a mobile bolt rifle platform and had to give them a boost (turbo in fact) to make people buy them.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I wonder if this is finally going to get people thinking about how ludicrous primaris statlines and stuff are getting. Everybody kind of laughs it off when you point out how they get more attacks than eldar aspect warriors, so, how we feeling about 2 more attacks than a custode bike?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Because that's the entire purpose of points....

I think it's that time of day where you need more coffee

Points allow us to ensure whole armies are roughly equivalent, not individual units in completely different factions It's never created a fair comparison between individual units.


You just contradicted yourself entirely when you take a minute to think it through. If I am playing army X and you Y, then the entire rosters are unalike lol.

More coffee for sure.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




the_scotsman wrote:
I wonder if this is finally going to get people thinking about how ludicrous primaris statlines and stuff are getting. Everybody kind of laughs it off when you point out how they get more attacks than eldar aspect warriors, so, how we feeling about 2 more attacks than a custode bike?


Do Custodes not get shock assault (sorry I rarely play against them)? If they do then it is only 1 less. And then only on a charge.

It still is ridiculous the buffing they are getting though.
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Red Corsair wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
They could have doubled everything and we'd all be playing 3k just to get most of our toys back.


And?

What does that have to do with anything? The point limit can be 10k, wouldn't matter so long as everything is balanced relatively.

Doubling the points wouldn't balance things, it'd just push us to play even higher points totals without addressing the relative balance between factions.
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Even if they're costed right, stat bloat is certainly a thing, and that's on full display here with these bikes.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




the_scotsman wrote:
I wonder if this is finally going to get people thinking about how ludicrous primaris statlines and stuff are getting. Everybody kind of laughs it off when you point out how they get more attacks than eldar aspect warriors, so, how we feeling about 2 more attacks than a custode bike?


Yep. Primaris bikers have a better statline and combat ability than almost all factions' characters.

They also have more attacks per model than a captain or khan on a bike (equal if the captain has a chainsword, I guess). Sergeant gets 7 attacks on the charge, compared to 5 for a bike captain or khan. Figure that one out.

But you gotta sell those bikes somehow. GW's in the business of making $, not of making sense.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/16 15:37:14


 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






yukishiro1 wrote:
You can bet your lunch money you won't have left after buying the new bikes that they will be priced to move. In points, that is. Not in $. In $, they will be priced to empty your wallet.

They want you to replace your old bikes with the new bikes. I wouldn't hold out much hope of the old ones staying competitive, just like tactical marines aren't competitive with intercessors.


I wouldn't be shocked if the new bikes were limited to the "release" box for a fair while, causing ebay scalping to get out of hand for the impatient. Ala Oblits from shadowspear.

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Red Corsair wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Because that's the entire purpose of points....

I think it's that time of day where you need more coffee

Points allow us to ensure whole armies are roughly equivalent, not individual units in completely different factions It's never created a fair comparison between individual units.


You just contradicted yourself entirely when you take a minute to think it through. If I am playing army X and you Y, then the entire rosters are unalike lol.

More coffee for sure.

Yes, you do need more coffee.

The point of points is to allow two wildly different armies to meet at a relatively equivilant strength. It allows for some comparison between units that share rules (like Intercessors vs Scouts vs Tacticals) but it's never really worked as a way to compare different units between armies (such as Cultists vs Intercessors) since those units have little to no common baseline in rules, much less wargear or stats.
   
Made in us
Inspiring Icon Bearer





Colorado Springs, CO

Why does every new vehicle for the imperium in 40K have to have a ‘bellicose machine spirit’?

Like, why do the bikers have to ‘dominate’ their bikes? Why couldn’t you build a bike without AI?

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!

One of them filthy casuals... 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
They could have doubled everything and we'd all be playing 3k just to get most of our toys back.


And?

What does that have to do with anything? The point limit can be 10k, wouldn't matter so long as everything is balanced relatively.

Doubling the points wouldn't balance things, it'd just push us to play even higher points totals without addressing the relative balance between factions.


You really need to do a better job following topics. The increase was billed as an attempt to create room for granularity.

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 godswildcard wrote:
Why does every new vehicle for the imperium in 40K have to have a ‘bellicose machine spirit’?

Like, why do the bikers have to ‘dominate’ their bikes? Why couldn’t you build a bike without AI?

I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!

It's the servitor who runs the cupholder.
   
 
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