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21stPrimarch wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Actually we did miss it. Charging unit strikes first.

So repentia isn't totally screwed

You know i keep scouring the images and cant see where it says that. Anyone know where that is said?

I got mine labeled all weird but its in their that charging units fight first.

Also, no seize the initiative. Most missions both players roll off, whoever wins can choose to attack or defend. No way to go first if your opponent decides to attack.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Also, no soup penalty that I can see; detachment costs are the same whether they're in-faction or out-of-faction.

And that is so lame... Lazy and lame

I thought it said if your army isn't battle-forged you not only Do NOT get ANY CP to start the game, but also you are not able to put units in Strategic Reserves.

Soup is pretty much dead (unless I'm reading it wrong, which is totally plausible).

EldarExarch wrote:
I thought it said if your army isn't battle-forged you not only Do NOT get ANY CP to start the game, but also you are not able to put units in Strategic Reserves.

Soup is pretty much dead (unless I'm reading it wrong, which is totally plausible).

If all units have the same faction keyword (Imperium, Chaos,etc) they are battleforged.

Also, alternating deployment is back

Not sure if it's current in 8th ed either but Supreme Command, SH and SHA detachments do not gain detachment abilities even if they are part of the same faction as the rest of your force.

Ummmmmm, there's no Airwing Detachment anymore.

EldarExarch wrote:
I thought it said if your army isn't battle-forged you not only Do NOT get ANY CP to start the game, but also you are not able to put units in Strategic Reserves.
Soup is pretty much dead (unless I'm reading it wrong, which is totally plausible).

which Soup Army in 8th wasn't Battle Forged?

This can't be all the pages unless I'm missing key paragraphs but I see nothing about "open topped" transports plus only a few missions shown.

Maybe more later?

Obj markers are recommended 40mm and you measure from closest part not the middle anymore, small but important change

yukishiro1 wrote:
Horde combat looks totally dead. You won't be able to fight with most of your models due to the bizarre massive nerf to engagement range, and you have to keep coherency when piling in and when consolidating - which are still limited to being towards the closest model - which means trapping is also very hard.

And even if you do trap, they can just fall back using the strat and have the rest of their army wipe you off the table. Whereas you got one round of combat with maybe 10 guys.

Only a nerf if you're on 25mm. GW seems to be moving most things to 28mm or 32mm.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You’re missing the point.

CP Farming Soup is now a thing of the past. Soup otherwise hasn’t been changed in terms of appeal.

I think you're the one missing the point.

For weeks now we have been debating whether their talk of a "soup penalty" was something in ADDITION to detachment costs - i.e., you pay another 1CP for a detachment if it's in a different codex from your warlord's detachment - or whether the "soup penalty" was just a shorthand for paying for additional detachments.

Now we know: there is no soup penalty beyond the normal detachment costs.

Command reroll is rerolling the whole test, not just 1 die.

I might be too tired to notice it, but I'm not seeing any change to the attack sequence.

I have the 8th edition rulebook next to me. It says :
- Roll to hit
- Roll to wound
- Allocate wound
- Save
- Resolve damages

I'm not seeing any difference with 9th edition.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Horde combat looks totally dead. You won't be able to fight with most of your models due to the bizarre massive nerf to engagement range, and you have to keep coherency when piling in and when consolidating - which are still limited to being towards the closest model - which means trapping is also very hard.

And even if you do trap, they can just fall back using the strat and have the rest of their army wipe you off the table. Whereas you got one round of combat with maybe 10 guys.

Only a nerf if you're on 25mm. GW seems to be moving most things to 28mm or 32mm.

No, it's a nerf no matter what. In 8th on 32mm you could fight in two ranks even if your first model was .99" away from the enemy model, and your second guy was .99" behind that.

Now your first guy has to be within .5" if you want to fight in a second rank, and the guy behind him has to be within .5" too.

On 25mm it also means fighting in three ranks is impossible, but it's a significant nerf no matter what.

Ragnar69 wrote:

EldarExarch wrote:
I thought it said if your army isn't battle-forged you not only Do NOT get ANY CP to start the game, but also you are not able to put units in Strategic Reserves.

Soup is pretty much dead (unless I'm reading it wrong, which is totally plausible).

If all units have the same faction keyword (Imperium, Chaos,etc) they are battleforged.

Also, alternating deployment is back

Bah so step back for alpha strikes.

But with the 0.5" from friend within 0.5" maybe silly rebaslng thing goes away as you are limited to 2 ranks 25mm or 32mm

ouch vangard, spear head, outrider are all 3cp

patrol is 2cp! - i was hoping for 1!

yukishiro1 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Horde combat looks totally dead. You won't be able to fight with most of your models due to the bizarre massive nerf to engagement range, and you have to keep coherency when piling in and when consolidating - which are still limited to being towards the closest model - which means trapping is also very hard.

And even if you do trap, they can just fall back using the strat and have the rest of their army wipe you off the table. Whereas you got one round of combat with maybe 10 guys.

Only a nerf if you're on 25mm. GW seems to be moving most things to 28mm or 32mm.

No, it's a nerf no matter what. In 8th on 32mm you could fight in two ranks even if your first model was .99" away from the enemy model, and your second guy was .99" behind that.

Now your first guy has to be within .5" if you want to fight in a second rank, and the guy behind him has to be within .5" too.

On 25mm it also means fighting in three ranks is impossible, but it's a significant nerf no matter what.

Sorry, but not seeing it as a nerf to force people to consolidate in closer to get their attacks instead of spreading out.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Horde combat looks totally dead. You won't be able to fight with most of your models due to the bizarre massive nerf to engagement range, and you have to keep coherency when piling in and when consolidating - which are still limited to being towards the closest model - which means trapping is also very hard.

And even if you do trap, they can just fall back using the strat and have the rest of their army wipe you off the table. Whereas you got one round of combat with maybe 10 guys.

Only a nerf if you're on 25mm. GW seems to be moving most things to 28mm or 32mm.

No, it's a nerf no matter what. In 8th on 32mm you could fight in two ranks even if your first model was .99" away from the enemy model, and your second guy was .99" behind that.

Now your first guy has to be within .5" if you want to fight in a second rank, and the guy behind him has to be within .5" too.

On 25mm it also means fighting in three ranks is impossible, but it's a significant nerf no matter what.

Also with 32mm you struct with 2.5 ranks in 8th

Of course it's a nerf. You can think it's a good nerf, but of course it's a nerf. It forces you to do things you didn't have to do before in order to be eligible to attack, things that limit your unit's flexibility. That's the definition of a nerf.

 Latro_ wrote:
ouch vangard, spear head, outrider are all 3cp

patrol is 2cp! - i was hoping for 1!

And no Airwing. My Eldar Air Raid list is dead.

 puma713 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
ouch vangard, spear head, outrider are all 3cp

patrol is 2cp! - i was hoping for 1!

And no Airwing. My Eldar Air Raid list is dead.

it is a guy with a camera, could be missed pages

EDIT : forget it. Too tired.

 puma713 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
ouch vangard, spear head, outrider are all 3cp

patrol is 2cp! - i was hoping for 1!

And no Airwing. My Eldar Air Raid list is dead.

Nothing personal but...thank god for that. Nobody liked playing against planes.

You could still take 6 flyers if you wanted via 3 patrols, I guess.

 Latro_ wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
ouch vangard, spear head, outrider are all 3cp

patrol is 2cp! - i was hoping for 1!

And no Airwing. My Eldar Air Raid list is dead.

it is a guy with a camera, could be missed pages

Could be, but where Airwing USED to be on the page is not there anymore. It used to be between Super Heavy and Super Heavy Auxiliary.

tneva82 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Horde combat looks totally dead. You won't be able to fight with most of your models due to the bizarre massive nerf to engagement range, and you have to keep coherency when piling in and when consolidating - which are still limited to being towards the closest model - which means trapping is also very hard.

And even if you do trap, they can just fall back using the strat and have the rest of their army wipe you off the table. Whereas you got one round of combat with maybe 10 guys.

Only a nerf if you're on 25mm. GW seems to be moving most things to 28mm or 32mm.

No, it's a nerf no matter what. In 8th on 32mm you could fight in two ranks even if your first model was .99" away from the enemy model, and your second guy was .99" behind that.

Now your first guy has to be within .5" if you want to fight in a second rank, and the guy behind him has to be within .5" too.

On 25mm it also means fighting in three ranks is impossible, but it's a significant nerf no matter what.

Also with 32mm you struct with 2.5 ranks in 8th

Yeah, if your opponent let you by the way their models were set up you could fight in somewhat more than 2 ranks on 32mm in 8th too.

The upshot is that in 9th you're going to have a very hard time getting more than 10 of your guys able to fight an enemy unit if your opponent sets up right to brace for the charge.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
ouch vangard, spear head, outrider are all 3cp

patrol is 2cp! - i was hoping for 1!

And no Airwing. My Eldar Air Raid list is dead.

Nothing personal but...thank god for that. Nobody liked playing against planes.

You could still take 6 flyers if you wanted via 3 patrols, I guess.

Also noticed that you cannot block flyers. If ever they cannot move their minimum distance, they automatically go into reserve.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

jivardi wrote:
Not sure if it's current in 8th or not but I noticed "Insane Bravery" stratagem is only once per BATTLE.

I swear in current edition it can be done multiple times?

Yeah and it isn't broken because it's a whopping 2CP.

Also they changed command reroll so it can’t be used for morale or attrition rolls.

looks like prepared positions has vanished, i thought they would of kept that in.

so long ork army, its not looking good for you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aash wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

jivardi wrote:
Not sure if it's current in 8th or not but I noticed "Insane Bravery" stratagem is only once per BATTLE.

I swear in current edition it can be done multiple times?

Yeah and it isn't broken because it's a whopping 2CP.

Also they changed command reroll so it can’t be used for morale or attrition rolls.

or just about any dice related stuff from strats etc

Wasn't prepared positions just a matched play rule? The rules don't seem to include those - nothing about deep strike limitations either, but I very much assume you can't do a T1 DS in 9th, and that the rules are the same as in 8th for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Latro_ wrote:


or just about any dice related stuff from strats etc

Yeah this is a very big one, it means that e.g. strats that work on a 4+ can't be upgraded to working 75% of the time for a CP. Stuff like WS snarecaptains are much less reliable, so it's even easier to fall back than it already was.

Not being able to reroll just one of your charge dice hurts, too.

finished reading, quite meh overall, all the juicy stuff has already been covered.