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The one downside I can see to the bunker is that it seems to have a pretty large footprint. It'll be pretty easy to screen it from deepstriking in the middle of the table if you try at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 19:56:10
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
Tyran wrote: The bunker is an extremely binary unit.
Against a infantry MSU army it is likely going to be amazing, against a Knight Army it is useless.
It still has 2 S10 d6 damage missile attacks, that's hardly useless vs knights. This is just a random rulebreaking bonus it gets for no reason.
It isn't really rulebreaking as the the Deathstorm Drop Pod has the same rule. This bunker is just basically a bigger, better and likely more expensive Deathstorm Drop Pod.
With what range? At what points? Is 3 HB shots really putting everything over the edge? Are you really keeping a captain back for a heavy bolter? Which stratagems? How does it deploy?
If you cant seem to grasp why a weapon with a 36 inch range on a deep strikeable platform that can fire at everything within range is a bad fething idea, then that's your problem. But we both knew that going into this lovely little chat.
Oh so line of sight went away? I guess it was hard for a heavy bolter to reach across the table before.
I'm sorry that every single time a space marine rule is shown people rush to get their reaction out that they don't stop and reflect on if it can actually be as broken as they so desperately seem to want to assume.
I don't think the sky is falling *yet* in because you could (okay ignore the supposed leaks on Space Marine points and basically the last 12 months for Space Marines) easily make it suitably expensive that it sucks. Call it say 250ish points.
But its an obnoxious rule, on an obnoxious model, and the general hatred of everything Space Marine increases that little bit further by its existence.
Rakdarian wrote: Newbie here, what's the problem with fortifications conceptually
Only just saw this. I mean, some people love them, it's my personal preference. The issue I face with them is that very few people want a static blob that doesn't do anything dynamic during a game, which means the only time you ever really see them is when there's a really gamey exploit. For example, there was a good long time where Necron players took aegis defence lines because they allowed you to completely block line of sight to scarabs and then use spyders to create huge armies of them, and lots of people took a skyshield to give parking lots a 4++ for cheap. It wasn't game breaking, it simply looked stupid and made games very dull. Having a static bunker which likely scores for SM encourages making a gun line, and I dislike that style of game, especially when the SM are already hard to charge due to their other myriad of absurd rules. As I say, even if it's fairly costed, it's not something I enjoy playing.
Oh so line of sight went away? I guess it was hard for a heavy bolter to reach across the table before.
Thank you for again willfully ignoring the fact that its a drop bunker that will innately deep strike to precisely where it needs to. Or for the fact that as a vehicle keyworded unit (yes, Imperium fortifications get that) it's going to be eligible for all kinds of bs. Or that it will inherit additional potency because its a Marine unit, and will interact with multiple force multipliers just for showing up.
I'm sorry that every single time a space marine rule is shown people rush to get their reaction out that they don't stop and reflect on if it can actually be as broken as they so desperately seem to want to assume.
Im sorry that you're genuinely incapable of understanding just how conceptually wrong this unit is. But its far from the first time you hopped on the "everything is fine" train for an abjectly idiotic power spike.
Also, do we know the rules for this fortification yet? You might have to give up the move/shoot of a single unit nearby, it may have lower-than-average BS or something to mitigate all the free shots it is throwing out.
WH40K Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
DT:70+S++G+M-B-I--Pw40K90-D++A++/eWD?R++T(D)DM+
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The leak on Space Marines points are inconsistent with the Primaris Liutenant point cost in the App article, so a lot of salt.
As for the bunker, we also don't have the stats for its Hammerfall heavy bolter array and the rule implies it has less shots than 6 (so likely only 3 like a normal heavy bolter).
My problem with the Necron fortification it that it is boring. 40K team should learn from AoS theam how to make impactfull and usefull scenography. And here it has points so they can actually balance it.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Tyran wrote: The leak on Space Marines points are inconsistent with the Primaris Liutenant point cost in the App article, so a lot of salt.
As for the bunker, we also don't have the stats for its Hammerfall heavy bolter array and the rule implies it has less shots than 6 (so likely only 3 like a normal heavy bolter).
Isn't that just the 8th edition points for a lutie?
Most imperial fortifications that are servitor manned (looks like all count that way these days from what i could see on BS) are bs5. So I am guessing this new one will be bs4 because it has primarus marine brain servitors.
"I have traveled trough the Realm of Death and brought back novelty pencils"
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;
the band is playing somewhere and somewhere hearts are light,and somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout but there is no joy in Mudville — mighty Casey has struck out.
Nicorex wrote: Most imperial fortifications that are servitor manned (looks like all count that way these days from what i could see on BS) are bs5. So I am guessing this new one will be bs4 because it has primarus marine brain servitors.
If it's BS 5 then fine, it's a super tarantula. As long as it's fairly costed, fine. But it's a bunker... which suggests dudes inside it, that could fire at Marine BS, which is utter BS for those keeping score.
Oh so line of sight went away? I guess it was hard for a heavy bolter to reach across the table before.
Thank you for again willfully ignoring the fact that its a drop bunker that will innately deep strike to precisely where it needs to. Or for the fact that as a vehicle keyworded unit (yes, Imperium fortifications get that) it's going to be eligible for all kinds of bs. Or that it will inherit additional potency because its a Marine unit, and will interact with multiple force multipliers just for showing up.
I'm sorry that every single time a space marine rule is shown people rush to get their reaction out that they don't stop and reflect on if it can actually be as broken as they so desperately seem to want to assume.
Im sorry that you're genuinely incapable of understanding just how conceptually wrong this unit is. But its far from the first time you hopped on the "everything is fine" train for an abjectly idiotic power spike.
It's a terrible concept. The last thing 40k needs is more big clunky models that break the rest of the rules of the game for the sake of...well..I don't really know what.
WhiteDog wrote: Any of you knows when will we be able to preco ? At 12 pm tomorrow ?
Imo, fortification should give passive ability like in AoS. Having an immobile shooting platform is boring as hell.
Change GMT to BST...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/10 23:52:13
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Oh so line of sight went away? I guess it was hard for a heavy bolter to reach across the table before.
Thank you for again willfully ignoring the fact that its a drop bunker that will innately deep strike to precisely where it needs to. Or for the fact that as a vehicle keyworded unit (yes, Imperium fortifications get that) it's going to be eligible for all kinds of bs. Or that it will inherit additional potency because its a Marine unit, and will interact with multiple force multipliers just for showing up.
I'm sorry that every single time a space marine rule is shown people rush to get their reaction out that they don't stop and reflect on if it can actually be as broken as they so desperately seem to want to assume.
Im sorry that you're genuinely incapable of understanding just how conceptually wrong this unit is. But its far from the first time you hopped on the "everything is fine" train for an abjectly idiotic power spike.
LOL, keep reaching for the stars.
I disagreed with you on the eradicators not being OP because we already had a ballpark of their cost and some comparable units they are MASSIVELY superior to. I agree that it's too early to whine about the bunker. We don't even know it's full statline, let alone it's points cost. For all we know it's 2 wounds T2 for 600pts. Also, doesn't the shoot everything it can rule already exist? Deathstorm drop pods do the exact same thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yukishiro1 wrote: It's a terrible concept. The last thing 40k needs is more big clunky models that break the rest of the rules of the game for the sake of...well..I don't really know what.
It's literally just a primaris version of the deathstorm drop pod. It's basically the exact same thing as the bike chaplain or techmarine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 21:59:08
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Nicorex wrote: Most imperial fortifications that are servitor manned (looks like all count that way these days from what i could see on BS) are bs5. So I am guessing this new one will be bs4 because it has primarus marine brain servitors.
If it's BS 5 then fine, it's a super tarantula. As long as it's fairly costed, fine. But it's a bunker... which suggests dudes inside it, that could fire at Marine BS, which is utter BS for those keeping score.
The article actually states "as their automated guns blaze away at EVERY ENEMY UNIT WITHIN RANGE", it is not a manned weapon platform.
"I have traveled trough the Realm of Death and brought back novelty pencils"
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;
the band is playing somewhere and somewhere hearts are light,and somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout but there is no joy in Mudville — mighty Casey has struck out.
Nicorex wrote: Most imperial fortifications that are servitor manned (looks like all count that way these days from what i could see on BS) are bs5. So I am guessing this new one will be bs4 because it has primarus marine brain servitors.
If it's BS 5 then fine, it's a super tarantula. As long as it's fairly costed, fine. But it's a bunker... which suggests dudes inside it, that could fire at Marine BS, which is utter BS for those keeping score.
The article actually states "as their automated guns blaze away at EVERY ENEMY UNIT WITHIN RANGE", it is not a manned weapon platform.
OK cool, that's less grim.
Now I can just be annoyed at how gak the Necron terrain is instead lol. On the plus, we'e already figured out that you could Deceiver the three towers up and build a wall in front out our opponents, which might be funny.
I disagreed with you on the eradicators not being OP because we already had a ballpark of their cost and some comparable units they are MASSIVELY superior to. I agree that it's too early to whine about the bunker. We don't even know it's full statline, let alone it's points cost. For all we know it's 2 wounds T2 for 600pts. Also, doesn't the shoot everything it can rule already exist? Deathstorm drop pods do the exact same thing.
Yup. I'll be right there next to you calling it stupid if they make it too good. Eradicators could wind up cheaper, too along with MM languishing - all of that would be bad for the game.
I'm just content to sit on my hands for now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Based on the screenshots there looks to be a lot more to that mission pack for rules changes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 22:19:05
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
