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This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working
"Deals greater and greater"
Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.
We're well aware of price anchoring.
Now find me $135 of models in that quantity and quality.
Indomitus isn't a 135 dollars though?
BRB is in box. He's saying that the BRB is 65$ of the boxes price, which isn't totally true, but neither is the 200$ number for smart buyers.
I mean, rulebooks are one of the number one most grossly overpriced products for their actual value GW produces.
Point of order. Point taken. Point of fact. Pointing things out. Match point. Pointing fingers. The point of it all. What's the point? Points of authority.
There's a lot of points out there, which is why I'm so irritated WE DON'T HAVE ANY YET!
Battle Boxes are always a way for people to start, but this is the first time(for AoS or 40k) that it has included the full rulebook that I can think of. GW doesn't consider Battle Boxes to be starter products though.
What are you talking about? This set contains the full rule book, two armies and the rules to field them! Aside from the lack of a ruler and D6 dice - which anybody will highly likely have to hand and if not would barely cost £3 for both - there is nothing else players require for a full game of 40K.
Incorrect. The rule booklet for the models Indomitus requires both the Necron and Marine codices to function. This isnt for a moment an unbox and play set.
"Edge of Silence" contains the rules for the units in the box.
1x 24-page campaign booklet – The Edge of Silence: This supplementary booklet is exclusive to the Indomitus set and tells you the story of what befell the vanguard forces of the Indomitus Crusade’s Battle Group Kallides when they ventured into the ominous, seemingly abandoned region known as Pariah Nexus. The booklet also includes 18 datasheets that feature all of the rules that enable you to field the stunning miniatures in the box in a game of Warhammer 40,000.
This is what they did for Chaos Marines and Vanguard Primaris with Shadowspear.
Except we've seen the data sheets from the box. They say 'see codex necrons' and 'see codex space marines' for some rules (like reanimation protocols). They aren't playable out of the box.
ERJAK wrote: Point of order. Point taken. Point of fact. Pointing things out. Match point. Pointing fingers. The point of it all. What's the point? Points of authority.
There's a lot of points out there, which is why I'm so irritated WE DON'T HAVE ANY YET!
gorram monday NDA lift...
Seconded. I propose a motion to fund a leaker. All those in favor?
Except we've seen the data sheets from the box. They say 'see codex necrons' and 'see codex space marines' for some rules (like reanimation protocols). They aren't playable out of the box.
Indeed. This isnt Shadowspear. It explicitly requires additional rules material to function.
ERJAK wrote: Point of order. Point taken. Point of fact. Pointing things out. Match point. Pointing fingers. The point of it all. What's the point? Points of authority.
There's a lot of points out there, which is why I'm so irritated WE DON'T HAVE ANY YET!
gorram monday NDA lift...
Seconded. I propose a motion to fund a leaker. All those in favor?
ERJAK wrote: Point of order. Point taken. Point of fact. Pointing things out. Match point. Pointing fingers. The point of it all. What's the point? Points of authority.
There's a lot of points out there, which is why I'm so irritated WE DON'T HAVE ANY YET!
gorram monday NDA lift...
So your point is about points?
Agreed. I want to start making lists now. And I need to see if csm are getting shafted again or not.
And my fellblade, please please please, I need to know if they finally fixed its points. It needs to be able to soak its treads in the blood of loyalist dogs again.
Except we've seen the data sheets from the box. They say 'see codex necrons' and 'see codex space marines' for some rules (like reanimation protocols). They aren't playable out of the box.
Thats a good point, but once again, the starter sets only include the datasheets. That said, I'm not sure how much rules they included in the Dark Imperium set so...
This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working
"Deals greater and greater"
Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.
We're well aware of price anchoring.
Now find me $135 of models in that quantity and quality.
Indomitus isn't a 135 dollars though?
BRB is in box. He's saying that the BRB is 65$ of the boxes price, which isn't totally true, but neither is the 200$ number for smart buyers.
I mean, rulebooks are one of the number one most grossly overpriced products for their actual value GW produces.
Not as much as you think
First, the profit margin on books is fairly low. And that's on novels, not full color books filled with art and fancier/hardier paper. That costs the company extra, and art budgets can seriously get out of hand. The profit on books is a small fraction of the profit on minis.
Second, it's not that much a deviation from the industry norm. the Warmachine Prime Rulebook was $60 4 years ago, and that's half the size.
The pathfinder RPG core rules from last year is also $60. And that's a hardback, full color shelf breaker similar to the 40k rulebook.
Star Wars Edge of Empire? $60, 7 years ago
Star Trek Core Rules (Modiphius, 3 years ago) $58
So maybe 10% higher than similar books from 1-7 years ago.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/12 15:09:46
BRB is in box. He's saying that the BRB is 65$ of the boxes price, which isn't totally true, but neither is the 200$ number for smart buyers.
I can purchase the book separately, but not the models. If I wanted the BRB (I do) then the nominal value of the models is $135.
Now there will be a glut of BRBs on eBay. Maybe $40 to $45? The standalone book is going for $55. So, $155 tops for the models.
it depends on how you calculate the discount for the Box itself (as GW said it is a set with a discount)
so either pay the full price for rules and the models are 50% off what regular Snap-Fit models, making it 135 at 50% (so regular ones will cost 135 for one half)
or the rule book is free and you pay full price for the models, making it 200 at 50% of regular Snap-Fit models
or you pay 50% for the rulebook, 50% for the models and the Special Edition Characters are free
it is nearly impossible to calculate the price that way and the saving is what GW tells you it is, specially if there is no regular way to buy that models
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working
"Deals greater and greater"
Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.
We're well aware of price anchoring.
Now find me $135 of models in that quantity and quality.
Indomitus isn't a 135 dollars though?
BRB is in box. He's saying that the BRB is 65$ of the boxes price, which isn't totally true, but neither is the 200$ number for smart buyers.
I mean, rulebooks are one of the number one most grossly overpriced products for their actual value GW produces.
Not as much as you think
First, the profit margin on books is fairly low. And that's on novels, not full color books filled with art and fancier/hardier paper. That costs the publisher extra (art budgets canseriously get out of hand)
Second, it's not that much a deviation from the industry norm. the Warmachine Prime Rulebook was $60 4 years ago, and that's half the size.
The pathfinder RPG core rules from last year is also $60. And that's a hardback, full color shelf breaker similar to the 40k rulebook.
So maybe 10% higher than similar books from 1-4 years ago.
PnP rpgs, being party based, often benefit from one person buying the book and sharing it out with their friends.
I begrudge GW for sticking with this old fashioned structure of printing books. And charging for them. We all know it isn't where its profit comes from, and the rules, frankly, could stand to be free. And boy do they go all out on a book that'll be relevant for, what... three/four years? Until they sell the new one. And, honestly, the BRB might not be relevant in HALF a year depending on how they manage CA
I mean, rulebooks are one of the number one most grossly overpriced products for their actual value GW produces.
Not as much as you think
First, the profit margin on books is fairly low. And that's on novels, not full color books filled with art and fancier/hardier paper. That costs the publisher extra (art budgets canseriously get out of hand)
Full colour books like the BRB are indeed expensive to produce though profitable enough that Paizo runs a whole business off it. But whether the $65 BRB is actually a good value is a very interesting question. If a maxi-size magazine was sold for $20 USD and included only the rules without the fluff, that would be a great value--as well as being inexpensive. I really wish there was a players book that skipped all the background and just got on with how to play the game in three modes. Bundle it with every codex and Bob's your uncle.
I really wish there was a players book that skipped all the background and just got on with how to play the game in three modes. Bundle it with every codex and Bob's your uncle.
They could easily produce a 40K manual with just the rules, similar to the Kill Team manuals. For £25 I would definitely go for it.
If memory serves, 2nd Ed was £40. It came with 20 Tactical Marines (three part models), and a quantity of monopose Ork Boyz, Grots. Oh and a single flat cardboard Ork Dreadnought.
24 or so years later, we see Indomitus. Not only significantly more models, but ones of objectively better quality, intricacy and variety.
Some do stick out as odd (Blood of the Phoenix in particular), but to simply observe prices have gone up, without any regard to a possible matching increase in quality and or value isn’t exactly an honest stance, is it?
There's a point where quality does become subjective. Especially considering there are plenty of decade plus models still in the range.
But now I'm stuck trying to google the price of a battalion box in the early 2000s. And, wow, this is harder than I expected. Probably because battalions were a fantasy thing and 40k used different terminology.
But okay, lets see. Space wolves. 90 bucks would net you... 10 grey hunters, 10 blood claws, 3 bikes, and a rhino. Plus those old corner buildings. Savings over the individual kits? Much lower. Modern equivalent.... 10 tacs, a dread, 1 character. Pretty much half of the old box. Same price. I can tell you, in 15 years, inflation was not 100 percent (it's roughly 30 percent).
this is their deal bundles too. The individual kits are, as I am entirely sure you know, much, much worse.
And this is already based off a rather expensive hobby.
Battle Forces and Batallions are.....odd, in a way. As with their modern successor the Start Collecting box, they are not created equally.
See, they offer different value in relation to specific armies. Consider the current Ad Mech one. That I would wager is of a more universal appeal than its immediate predecessor. Not only is the Arch Magos gone (and he’s an expensive model in his own right), but the Onager has been swapped for the tank/transport dual kit. So I could buy six and get a decent force. Perhaps three transports, three tanks, and three of each Skitarii infantry units. Yes, I am left with far more Enginseers than I’ll find a use for. But as a percentage of the price point, he’s still less than the Arch Magos I don’t need more than a couple of.
So each needs to be assessed on its own merits, and by a given person’s metric. After all, the army I might have in mind won’t necessarily be the same as yours. But in terms of savings over buying individual kits, Start Collecting sets are pretty decent. Or can be. You get what I mean.
Indomitus? OK this is the most expensive set I’ve ever bought. But as a Necron player, I couldn’t say no. I’m doing swapsies on my two copies, and a friend who missed out and who’s pockets aren’t as deep, is having one of the Necron sets off me (£45 I felt was a fair price. Offsets my spending, without being a Richard or a charity case).
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
ERJAK wrote: Point of order. Point taken. Point of fact. Pointing things out. Match point. Pointing fingers. The point of it all. What's the point? Points of authority.
There's a lot of points out there, which is why I'm so irritated WE DON'T HAVE ANY YET!
gorram monday NDA lift...
So your point is about points?
Agreed. I want to start making lists now. And I need to see if csm are getting shafted again or not.
And my fellblade, please please please, I need to know if they finally fixed its points. It needs to be able to soak its treads in the blood of loyalist dogs again.
I just want to be able to actually build my stuff. The back half of my sisters army is just waiting to get put together once we figure out what everything costs.
If heavy bolters are really 10inf, 15 vehicle now, that changes how you use mortifiers entirely.
SamusDrake wrote: They could easily produce a 40K manual with just the rules, similar to the Kill Team manuals. For £25 I would definitely go for it.
If only GW somebody had invented smaller format softback rulebooks.
Oh well, that's clearly not something which is possible for GW to come up with...
Or even a small format hardback.
Having a massive tome with all the rules and fluff and pictures is nice to have at home, but on the road at the FLGS, you want something a little smaller. And digital is just not the same for quickly looking up rules.
SamusDrake wrote: They could easily produce a 40K manual with just the rules, similar to the Kill Team manuals. For £25 I would definitely go for it.
If only GW somebody had invented smaller format softback rulebooks.
Oh well, that's clearly not something which is possible for GW to come up with...
Or even a small format hardback.
Having a massive tome with all the rules and fluff and pictures is nice to have at home, but on the road at the FLGS, you want something a little smaller. And digital is just not the same for quickly looking up rules.
That's why I'm surprised they ditched 7th's format of having separate books , smaller books bundled together for lore/rules/hobby connected by the binder. I can only assume it was cheaper to produce the one single book and they were told to stick to that again.
ERJAK wrote: Point of order. Point taken. Point of fact. Pointing things out. Match point. Pointing fingers. The point of it all. What's the point? Points of authority.
There's a lot of points out there, which is why I'm so irritated WE DON'T HAVE ANY YET!
gorram monday NDA lift...
So your point is about points?
Agreed. I want to start making lists now. And I need to see if csm are getting shafted again or not.
And my fellblade, please please please, I need to know if they finally fixed its points. It needs to be able to soak its treads in the blood of loyalist dogs again.
I just want to be able to actually build my stuff. The back half of my sisters army is just waiting to get put together once we figure out what everything costs.
If heavy bolters are really 10inf, 15 vehicle now, that changes how you use mortifiers entirely.
Same. I've got unbuilt models that I need to know how to equip. Infantry heavy weapons seem to have come down. If that includes chaincannons, oh yeah, Katie bar those doors.
yukishiro1 wrote:CA2020 has the full rules in it, plus tournament missions.
It doesn't have crusade, or the unbalanced matched play missions that come with the main book, though.
Which has me wondering if I want to spend $65 on the brb or just get ca. Don't need more reprinted lore I've already read.
For those who will not play crusade or do not care about the lore in the BRB, purchase CA2020 instead. It has all the rules you will need, the missions you'll prefer to play, and the points for making lists.
Am I correct in understanding that the 'Breachable' trait outright prevents Monsters or Vehicles from entering terrain? Seems like my jungle board just became completely non-navigable for everything but infantry.
catbarf wrote: Am I correct in understanding that the 'Breachable' trait outright prevents Monsters or Vehicles from entering terrain? Seems like my jungle board just became completely non-navigable for everything but infantry.
Nope. It's the old "infantry can move through ruin walls" rule. If there is an obstacle more than 1", vehicles and monsters can drive up and over it (so long as they have the movement to complete the move and not end up halfway up/down a wall or something, and physically fit in the destination).
Also, you decide what terrain gets what traits. If, for the sake of having a fun/functional table, you need to specifically use/avoid traits, then you can do that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/12 15:52:45
ERJAK wrote: Point of order. Point taken. Point of fact. Pointing things out. Match point. Pointing fingers. The point of it all. What's the point? Points of authority.
There's a lot of points out there, which is why I'm so irritated WE DON'T HAVE ANY YET!
gorram monday NDA lift...
In a thread full of pointless arguing, this made me laugh. Have an Exalt!
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
BrotherGecko wrote: Equilibrium Games in CA seems to have taken several boxes and is selling them by sprue on eBay. If pre-order was yesterday how does this store have boxes to physically sell?
I'd love to know if that is a breach of their distribution agreement.
Mixzremixzd wrote: How long did it take before the SOB second wave hit preorders? That may or may not be an indication of when to expect the second wave of Necron releases that were directly and indirectly teased, as well as multi-part sculpts for the Overlord, Skorpekh, Codex etc.
tneva82 wrote: It is not. Starter set comes later. Starter sets have all you need to play. This does not. Starter sets aren't limited in stock. This is.
Starter set is what comes later. Why arque against gw? You lose. Automatically.
What are you talking about? This set contains the full rule book, two armies and the rules to field them! Aside from the lack of a ruler and D6 dice - which anybody will highly likely have to hand and if not would barely cost £3 for both - there is nothing else players require for a full game of 40K.
Whether its limited or not, this box set is still a starter set because it functions as such.
Why argue against simple logic? You lose. Automatically.
Lol. Says guy that lists things always in starter sets that miss and claims it's starter set.
Yes. Simple logic wins. That's why you lost. Epic fail
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/12 16:11:49
BrotherGecko wrote: Equilibrium Games in CA seems to have taken several boxes and is selling them by sprue on eBay. If pre-order was yesterday how does this store have boxes to physically sell?
I'd love to know if that is a breach of their distribution agreement.
If they're getting the stock from GW almost certainly, but they may well be getting it from a distributor instead where things get much fuzzier (I think GW could hit the distributor for allowing it, but cutting of a single store is trivial, cutting of a distributor who shifts a significant chunk of stock, and who is probably better placed to acutally pay for lawyers to argue about it is another thing)
For anyone who missed out on Indomitus, don't give up yet. I got the e-mail from Frontline Gaming stating they oversold and I wouldn't be getting my Indomitus box. I was googling last night and it showed that a local business I had never heard of mentioned it on their Facebook page. It was almost 7pm and they closed at 5pm but I called anyways. Someone picked up and told me they were allotted 30 and had 5 left. I got my name in last night. Turns out this random craft store in Queen's NY called "Cook's Crafts" has been doing Warhammer for a couple years now and I had no idea. The point is, some of these really obscure stores might be a good place to check out if you want to put in the time. Some of these little out of the way shops aren't going to move a $200 item as fast as the big online guys.
About half an hour to go (from this post) to see if GW is going to announce a proper 9th ed starter. It'd be the perfect time to do so, and might take some wind out of the scalper's sales in the models are in that box too.
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
