Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Now that I’m hearing hot-Shot lasguns are 0 points across the board, are people going to switch their cheap Inquisitor’s and maybe acolytes to hot-Shots instead of boltguns?

You will never see an acolyte in a competitive list since the "you can include them in other imperium detachments!" PR turned out to be typical GW false advertising, so I really don't think it matters.

yukishiro1 wrote:
You will never see an acolyte in a competitive list since the "you can include them in other imperium detachments!" PR turned out to be typical GW false advertising, so I really don't think it matters.

What about Inquisitors being thrown in for the cheap psychic? Think the mighty Boltgun might be rethought?

Maybe, but it's not like it matters whether a single model in your army has a 24" S4 or an 18" S3 -2ap shot, does it?

yukishiro1 wrote:
The Warp Talon thing is another obvious proofreading error. I am 100% sure this one was spotted and flagged by playtesters too, and again GW just didn't bother to fix it.

Playtesting was supposed to be different this time around. They were supposed to listen to their testers and actually fix stuff.

So much for all that, apparently.

I fear that there seems to be a FLY / mobility tax.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The Warp Talon thing is another obvious proofreading error. I am 100% sure this one was spotted and flagged by playtesters too, and again GW just didn't bother to fix it.

Playtesting was supposed to be different this time around. They were supposed to listen to their testers and actually fix stuff.

So much for all that, apparently.

I fear that there seems to be a FLY / mobility tax.

Warp talons still have to pay for their lightning claws. It seems a specific problem.

Hellions are 15
Warp spiders seem to be 18
Swooping Hawks are 16
Necron praetorians are 23 (but like everything above, weapons are 0)

I'm not seeing a fly/mobility tax, or at least not much of one. In the Index (yeah, yeah, but its what I've got at hand) Hellions were 17, warpspiders 14+8, Swooping Hawks 10+7, and Praetorians were dropped to 16+10 in CA2018.

I don't doubt prices shifted by CA2019, but with a 'general point increase' they don't seem significantly higher.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The Warp Talon thing is another obvious proofreading error. I am 100% sure this one was spotted and flagged by playtesters too, and again GW just didn't bother to fix it.

Playtesting was supposed to be different this time around. They were supposed to listen to their testers and actually fix stuff.

So much for all that, apparently.

I fear that there seems to be a FLY / mobility tax.

Raptors went up 3 ppm, warp talons 8 ppm. They both have the same mobility, and warp talons overwatch nullification ability is now less useful. If the new warp talons price isn't a mistake then whoever decided on these points is very confused.

Of course judging by some of the other changes I think that's a given. Raising points on the Stompa? Really?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The Warp Talon thing is another obvious proofreading error. I am 100% sure this one was spotted and flagged by playtesters too, and again GW just didn't bother to fix it.

Playtesting was supposed to be different this time around. They were supposed to listen to their testers and actually fix stuff.

So much for all that, apparently.

I fear that there seems to be a FLY / mobility tax.

Raptors went up 3 ppm, warp talons 8 ppm. They both have the same mobility, and warp talons overwatch nullification ability is now less useful. If the new warp talons price isn't a mistake then whoever decided on these points is very confused.

Of course judging by some of the other changes I think that's a given. Raising points on the Stompa? Really?

Ah, I didn't see the Raptors. In that context yea - messed up. It does seem like they expected to fold LC into the cost, but forgot they couldn't.

Oh come on - you know the Stompa is super-elite!

Stompa OP. Pls nerf!

And buy one at the checkout, regardless of what you are actually purchasing!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Stompa OP. Pls nerf!

And buy one at the checkout, regardless of what you are actually purchasing!

Atleast it still has rules.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Stompa OP. Pls nerf!

And buy one at the checkout, regardless of what you are actually purchasing!

Atleast it still has rules.

It’s a plastic kit. That, at least, was never in doubt. Good rules though…

I dunno, if you plonk it within 3" of a Warboss or Big Mek, you basically make those characters invulnerable to shooting! Surely it'd be too good to need masses of anti-infantry and anti-vehicle fire to kill those characters. How could an elite army like Space Marines deal with such a tactic?

Wait, what do you mean Marines have the most ways of ignoring Look Out, Sir and are just a better army in general?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I dunno, if you plonk it within 3" of a Warboss or Big Mek, you basically make those characters invulnerable to shooting! Surely it'd be too good to need masses of anti-infantry and anti-vehicle fire to kill those characters. How could an elite army like Space Marines deal with such a tactic?

Wait, what do you mean Marines have the most ways of ignoring Look Out, Sir and are just a better army in general?

Snipers are a thing...

 Togusa wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I dunno, if you plonk it within 3" of a Warboss or Big Mek, you basically make those characters invulnerable to shooting! Surely it'd be too good to need masses of anti-infantry and anti-vehicle fire to kill those characters. How could an elite army like Space Marines deal with such a tactic?

Wait, what do you mean Marines have the most ways of ignoring Look Out, Sir and are just a better army in general?

Snipers are a thing...

Yes... that was the joke. Hence the final sentence.

Well, at least the mek workshop finally has a reason to exist - it provides cover!

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I dunno, if you plonk it within 3" of a Warboss or Big Mek, you basically make those characters invulnerable to shooting! Surely it'd be too good to need masses of anti-infantry and anti-vehicle fire to kill those characters. How could an elite army like Space Marines deal with such a tactic?

Wait, what do you mean Marines have the most ways of ignoring Look Out, Sir and are just a better army in general?

Snipers are a thing...

Yes... that was the joke. Hence the final sentence.

Marines aren't the only ones with snipers. Deathmarks, Eldar, Guard and GSC all have them. I don't think Chaos does, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, at least the mek workshop finally has a reason to exist - it provides cover!

Doesn't it also enhance ork vehicles?

 Togusa wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I dunno, if you plonk it within 3" of a Warboss or Big Mek, you basically make those characters invulnerable to shooting! Surely it'd be too good to need masses of anti-infantry and anti-vehicle fire to kill those characters. How could an elite army like Space Marines deal with such a tactic?

Wait, what do you mean Marines have the most ways of ignoring Look Out, Sir and are just a better army in general?

Snipers are a thing...

Yes... that was the joke. Hence the final sentence.

Marines aren't the only ones with snipers. Deathmarks, Eldar, Guard and GSC all have them. I don't think Chaos does, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, at least the mek workshop finally has a reason to exist - it provides cover!

Doesn't it also enhance ork vehicles?

I guess technically Deathmarks are snipers... with their strength 4, AP- guns...

If by enhance mean makes actively worse in most cases

 Togusa wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, at least the mek workshop finally has a reason to exist - it provides cover!

Doesn't it also enhance ork vehicles?

Not using the mek shop to upgrade your vehicles is always superior to using it. There aren't even any corner cases where it would be good in theory. It's literally the only ork unit worse than a stompa.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, at least the mek workshop finally has a reason to exist - it provides cover!

Doesn't it also enhance ork vehicles?

Not using the mek shop to upgrade your vehicles is always superior to using it. There aren't even any corner cases where it would be good in theory. It's literally the only ork unit worse than a stompa.

Yeah, the options are:
• Give up a turn of moving and shooting to gain a turn of moving almost as far as if you hadn’t stopped
• Give up a turn of moving and shooting to heal D3 and a ⅙ chance of gaining a point of Toughness
• Give up a turn of moving and shooting to gain a turn where one of your random-shot weapons fires almost as much as just shooting twice, plus a ⅙ chance of the gun gaining a point of damage.

With Saga of the Beast you can leverage it to get extra vehicle relics but that’s a really poor substitute for actually fixing the base unit.

Gotta love the faction terrain, most of it sucks, but considering the new and improved Primaris Whirlwind bolter brick thingy is also coming out i would laugh if it indeed would be bad.

Nurgle Tree is still money if you build a list to abuse it.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Nurgle Tree is still money if you build a list to abuse it.

ha forgot the tree and gardener combo
aye but most sucks, heck the only somewhat decent use i got out of the notilith was in combination with a cultist list to abuse W1 models with invuls durability in specific cases, and even that you could achieve easier with a DA with the invul prayer and cult leader trait..

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Nurgle Tree is still money if you build a list to abuse it.

Tree was changed in the FAQ to provide +1 armor save.... on an army that does not have armor saves and everyone has 5++.

I'd be sceptical.

It always has worked this way. The big gain from the tree was being able to advance and charge or fall back and shoot.

Fall back and shoot and advance/charge is pretty nice and arguably more important on smaller tables. Plus the tree detachment is free, if your warlord is nurgle (e.g. Death Guard, if you're using it for fall-back-and-shoot PBCs or some such).

Also, it's a Daemon Detachment and gives you the strat to make enemy psykers double-peril even if you have no other actual Chaos Daemons in your Death Guard list or so.

Fortification detachments unlock strats??

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Fortification detachments unlock strats??

At least in 8th, yes. All Detachments except the auxiliary one does.


Also, while scraping the bottom, triple Sporocyst might be a play for Nids.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I dunno, if you plonk it within 3" of a Warboss or Big Mek, you basically make those characters invulnerable to shooting! Surely it'd be too good to need masses of anti-infantry and anti-vehicle fire to kill those characters. How could an elite army like Space Marines deal with such a tactic?

Wait, what do you mean Marines have the most ways of ignoring Look Out, Sir and are just a better army in general?

It's actually worse at that role than Ghaz since as long as Ghaz has 5+ wounds at the start of shooting phase you CANNOT kill it and ergo can't target characters). Stompa is not that hard to one shot in phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, at least the mek workshop finally has a reason to exist - it provides cover!

Doesn't it also enhance ork vehicles?

Well you do get kustom jobs if you want to spend points instead of CP.

For the in game "upgrade"...Lets just say you will get mek workshop for FREE if you promise to use that ability for gorkanaut/morkanaut(or more expensive vehicle if you have). I might even pay it out of MY army(that cover and kustom job is only thing keeping me from it...). That's how bad junk it is.

If you want to have workshop that doesn't provide kustom job and cover(aka what it was in codex) I will happily pay it out of my own army points with above statement. Ie you have to use it to "upgrade" your vehicles

Well it's at least better than knight one that doesn't have kustom job thing...So you pay for bunch of cover. The "upgrade" ability is just as junk. Worse actually as it's for more expensive models. And "upgrade" got nerfed in the sense if you shoot at hordes you get that effect anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Gotta love the faction terrain, most of it sucks, but considering the new and improved Primaris Whirlwind bolter brick thingy is also coming out i would laugh if it indeed would be bad.

Sisters of battle is pretty good. Considering getting 2nd and maybe even 3rd eventually.

Having my first game of ninth today, just a small combat patrol using PL.