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2020/08/20 13:58:12
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Off the top of my head Praetorians are 23ppm and Lychguard 25?
I'm just curious where you view Necrons as a faction on the spectrum of hordes to elite.
To me it seems like GW is aiming for the faction as a whole to offer a versatile playstyle that isn't just MEQ that get back up when killed.
Theyre about the equivalent of sisters of battle/current CSM. Vehicles cost about the same, infantry costs 1-2 points more in most cases.Valorous Heart sisters play incredibly similar to necrons.
Which puts them underneath marines, special marines, custodes, and knights, and more elite than guard and admech. 2/13 imperial codexes. and necrons are pretty much the most elite xenos faction, unless you believe the glorified guardsman that is an eldar guardian is actually worth 10ppm XD
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/20 14:01:52
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Lol even though I never got to own a Pariah model let alone play them on the TT I still wish GW didn't squat them such a cool unique twist to the 3rd Ed Necrons. All I have now is Dark Crusade to get my fix
The Qarnakh Dynasty - Starting Again From scratch...Once again
kirotheavenger wrote: People like straws, and they're not willing to give any up even as the camel begins to buckle.
2020/08/20 14:07:44
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Lol even though I never got to own a Pariah model let alone play them on the TT I still wish GW didn't squat them such a cool unique twist to the 3rd Ed Necrons. All I have now is Dark Crusade to get my fix
haha, right? I just reinstalled DC two months ago, and Pariahs are soooo awesome in DC.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Off the top of my head Praetorians are 23ppm and Lychguard 25?
I'm just curious where you view Necrons as a faction on the spectrum of hordes to elite.
To me it seems like GW is aiming for the faction as a whole to offer a versatile playstyle that isn't just MEQ that get back up when killed.
Theyre about the equivalent of sisters of battle/current CSM. Vehicles cost about the same, infantry costs 1-2 points more in most cases.Valorous Heart sisters play incredibly similar to necrons.
Which puts them underneath marines, special marines, custodes, and knights, and more elite than guard and admech. 2/13 imperial codexes. and necrons are pretty much the most elite xenos faction, unless you believe the glorified guardsman that is an eldar guardian is actually worth 10ppm XD
Yeah that's about where I'd say Necrons are and what they should be, IMO, on the hordes to elite scale. Besides, after CA2020 I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to GW and points
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/20 14:08:20
The Qarnakh Dynasty - Starting Again From scratch...Once again
kirotheavenger wrote: People like straws, and they're not willing to give any up even as the camel begins to buckle.
2020/08/20 14:09:53
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Xenomancers wrote: for 2/5s of the game and not the first turn - plus it is str 4...half as effective at damaging t5. It is a much worse weapon. If it turns out that every army has 50% flat 2 wepaons in their army T5 with a better gun is going to be superior to 2 wounds for 2 additional points. The way I see it. Primaris will do better against trash units while immortals will do better against elite firepower. I am liking Immortals. Reaper bomb seems to be the best option to me though.
If Immortals got "Gauss Discipline" they'd be great.
But as far as I'm aware they don't (or at least they don't yet). So you need to get into 15" (dynasty code dependent) to be really effective and that's not guaranteed on a slow model. 15" obviously helps over 12", and the missions force people into the middle of the board more than before, but gauss was generally considered the weaker option so thinking its going to be amazing now may be pushing it.
The meta may shake out, GW may throw 2 damage onto almost anything largely than a bolter, but there are a lot of damage one guns out there right now.
They have even better. rapid fire at 18" all the time with sautec. With all the movement shenanigans crons can pull with infantry - getting in 18" is not an issue. Both are good units (immortals and intercessors) the immortal is likely a little better this eddition though.
MinscS2 wrote: \
(The Immortal has a vastly better gun than even an Intercessor though.)
At the moment the Intercessor gun can fire twice at 30" and at AP-2 for most of the game.
for 2/5s of the game and not the first turn - plus it is str 4...half as effective at damaging t5. It is a much worse weapon. If it turns out that every army has 50% flat 2 wepaons in their army T5 with a better gun is going to be superior to 2 wounds for 2 additional points. The way I see it. Primaris will do better against trash units while immortals will do better against elite firepower. I am liking Immortals. Reaper bomb seems to be the best option to me though.
With just the -1 on the Bolt Rifle:
Intercessors vs.
GEQ .666 x .666 x .83 x2 = .73
MEQ .666 x .5 x .5 x2 = .333
TEQ .666 x .5 x .333 x 2 = .22
Custodes EQ .666 x .333 x .333 x2 =.14
Immortals vs.
GEQ .666 x .666 = .44
MEQ .666 x .666 x .666 = .29
TEQ .666 x .333 x .5 = .22
Custodes EQ .666 x .5 x .5 = .16
2 shots with a Bolt Rifle is still equal to 1 shot of the Gauss Blaster shooting at Terminators, and the Blaster barely beats the Bolt Rifle firing at Custodes. It only really becomes a better gun in double-tap range or firing at T8.
Why are you assuming...the marine did not move?The gun is literally +1 str bolt rifle the only situation in which it is better is if the necron unit is far away and the marine did not move. The immortal if better or equal in literally every other situation AND it costs 2 less points.
The marine is better at melee and shooting trash units. The immortal is better at shooting elite units.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/20 14:18:13
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/08/20 14:28:53
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Lol even though I never got to own a Pariah model let alone play them on the TT I still wish GW didn't squat them such a cool unique twist to the 3rd Ed Necrons. All I have now is Dark Crusade to get my fix
haha, right? I just reinstalled DC two months ago, and Pariahs are soooo awesome in DC.
It's a shame, too, as it seems like a theme that could have been expanded greatly.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/08/20 15:17:44
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Off the top of my head Praetorians are 23ppm and Lychguard 25?
I'm just curious where you view Necrons as a faction on the spectrum of hordes to elite.
To me it seems like GW is aiming for the faction as a whole to offer a versatile playstyle that isn't just MEQ that get back up when killed.
Theyre about the equivalent of sisters of battle/current CSM. Vehicles cost about the same, infantry costs 1-2 points more in most cases.Valorous Heart sisters play incredibly similar to necrons.
Which puts them underneath marines, special marines, custodes, and knights, and more elite than guard and admech. 2/13 imperial codexes. and necrons are pretty much the most elite xenos faction, unless you believe the glorified guardsman that is an eldar guardian is actually worth 10ppm XD
Yeah that's about where I'd say Necrons are and what they should be, IMO, on the hordes to elite scale. Besides, after CA2020 I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to GW and points
Cool, so ALL xenos should be "marines -1" tier at most, and ALL chaos should be "marines" tier at most.
That sure does paint the imperium as the "besieged underdogs" doesn't it? if 10/13 factions of imperial armies are stronger and better than 100% of the competition to the imperium?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/20 15:29:56
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Off the top of my head Praetorians are 23ppm and Lychguard 25?
I'm just curious where you view Necrons as a faction on the spectrum of hordes to elite.
To me it seems like GW is aiming for the faction as a whole to offer a versatile playstyle that isn't just MEQ that get back up when killed.
Theyre about the equivalent of sisters of battle/current CSM. Vehicles cost about the same, infantry costs 1-2 points more in most cases.Valorous Heart sisters play incredibly similar to necrons.
Which puts them underneath marines, special marines, custodes, and knights, and more elite than guard and admech. 2/13 imperial codexes. and necrons are pretty much the most elite xenos faction, unless you believe the glorified guardsman that is an eldar guardian is actually worth 10ppm XD
Yeah that's about where I'd say Necrons are and what they should be, IMO, on the hordes to elite scale. Besides, after CA2020 I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to GW and points
Cool, so ALL xenos should be "marines -1" tier at most, and ALL chaos should be "marines" tier at most.
That sure does paint the imperium as the "besieged underdogs" doesn't it? if 10/13 factions of imperial armies are stronger and better than 100% of the competition to the imperium?
Sounds to me like the issue is the proliferation of Marines skewing the entire power dynamic no? Why GW as an entire tab on their webstore for SM separate from the Imperium is comical to think about but it's the unfortunate truth.
And besides, we're talking about how a faction functions on a spectrum of hordes or elite so I'm not sure where you think I meant that "All xenos should be marines -1 tier when I'm asking should Necrons play more like Orks or Custodes not should Necrons be as good as Orks or Custodes?
Edit: Just to clarify my stance to erase any misunderstanding. I am personally fine with Warriors being less than Marines and Immortals being MEQ with Lychguard and Praetorians greater than this. Why? Because then it allows me the option to choose how I want to build and play my army. If I want to fight numbers with numbers against Tyranids, I have the option of Silver Tiding with Warriors, Scarabs and Ghost Arks. If I want to go blow-for-blow with Primaris, I can do so using Immortals and Lychguard. Grey Knights, as an example, do not have this option of versatile list building and that's fine. Necrons need more was to play beyond MEQ that stands back up when killed not less IMHO.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/20 15:35:53
The Qarnakh Dynasty - Starting Again From scratch...Once again
kirotheavenger wrote: People like straws, and they're not willing to give any up even as the camel begins to buckle.
2020/08/20 16:52:36
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
the_scotsman wrote: Cool, so ALL xenos should be "marines -1" tier at most, and ALL chaos should be "marines" tier at most.
That sure does paint the imperium as the "besieged underdogs" doesn't it? if 10/13 factions of imperial armies are stronger and better than 100% of the competition to the imperium?
To be fair, I think the 'besieged underdogs' aspect has already been lost by the sheer weight of Marine armies.
It's hard to think of them as being under threat when they seem to outnumber even Tyranids.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/08/20 17:12:20
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
To be fair, I think the 'besieged underdogs' aspect has already been lost by the sheer weight of Marine armies.
It's hard to think of them as being under threat when they seem to outnumber even Tyranids.
And to be fair, that has nothing to do with lore. It has everything to do with how Marines are the 'poster' faction and everyone talks about them being OP.
Matters are further not helped by people on other venues doing everything they can to make 40k seem like it's just Marines as good.
2020/08/20 18:15:38
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
To be fair, I think the 'besieged underdogs' aspect has already been lost by the sheer weight of Marine armies.
It's hard to think of them as being under threat when they seem to outnumber even Tyranids.
And to be fair, that has nothing to do with lore. It has everything to do with how Marines are the 'poster' faction and everyone talks about them being OP.
I know it's not an accurate reflection of the lore, but that's exactly why it amuses me.
It's kinda hilarious that the faction supposedly comprised of a minuscule number of elites is so overplayed that it outnumbers all the other factions combined.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/08/20 18:27:42
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Aza'Gorod wrote: Oh yeah i do admit that besides bikes, some flyers and land speeders (not sure about astra militarum but I do think admech have some T6) there aren't lots of T6 models in the imperial armies but it would be nice to have something to differentiate the two because as I mentioned at the moment there really isnt anything
Ork Trukks and Planes would have a S12 gun...My Chinorks are a T5 so they dont care
2020/08/20 18:31:28
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
To be fair, I think the 'besieged underdogs' aspect has already been lost by the sheer weight of Marine armies.
It's hard to think of them as being under threat when they seem to outnumber even Tyranids.
And to be fair, that has nothing to do with lore. It has everything to do with how Marines are the 'poster' faction and everyone talks about them being OP.
It does have something to do with lore - despite the apparently dire situation the Imperium finds itself in they were still able to reinforce basically all existing Marine Chapters with Primaris, found a bunch of new Ultima Chapters, and re-found a bunch of previously lost Chapters.
Much stakes. Very dire.
2020/08/20 18:38:40
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
To be fair, I think the 'besieged underdogs' aspect has already been lost by the sheer weight of Marine armies.
It's hard to think of them as being under threat when they seem to outnumber even Tyranids.
And to be fair, that has nothing to do with lore. It has everything to do with how Marines are the 'poster' faction and everyone talks about them being OP.
It does have something to do with lore - despite the apparently dire situation the Imperium finds itself in they were still able to reinforce basically all existing Marine Chapters with Primaris, found a bunch of new Ultima Chapters, and re-found a bunch of previously lost Chapters.
Much stakes. Very dire.
Unveil a bunch of new weapons, reclaim a ton of lost technology, resurrect their primarch who has since kicked the tuckus of one of the chaos primarchs who had literally been ascending to demigodhood for the 10,000 years that Guilliman was a glorified Futurama jar head, destroy a hive fleet tendril, launch a massive crusade, beat magnus a second time, receive direct guidance from the emperor, mobilize the silent sisters and the custodes...
GW is just so addicted to their bolterporn that they prematurely marineculate every time they try to spend a second setting up stakes. The new necrons in that video are a perfect example - they're like, overwhelming and spooky for about 0.00000000000000000001 second and then the marines show up and effortlessly dunk on every single new necron unit they showcase in the vid while the female voiceover explains that if you believe in fairies and clap your hands, the emperor will send his big, strong, awesome, amazing, sugoiiiiii sempais to notice you..
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/20 19:25:49
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Off the top of my head Praetorians are 23ppm and Lychguard 25?
I'm just curious where you view Necrons as a faction on the spectrum of hordes to elite.
To me it seems like GW is aiming for the faction as a whole to offer a versatile playstyle that isn't just MEQ that get back up when killed.
Theyre about the equivalent of sisters of battle/current CSM. Vehicles cost about the same, infantry costs 1-2 points more in most cases.Valorous Heart sisters play incredibly similar to necrons.
Which puts them underneath marines, special marines, custodes, and knights, and more elite than guard and admech. 2/13 imperial codexes. and necrons are pretty much the most elite xenos faction, unless you believe the glorified guardsman that is an eldar guardian is actually worth 10ppm XD
Yeah that's about where I'd say Necrons are and what they should be, IMO, on the hordes to elite scale. Besides, after CA2020 I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to GW and points
Cool, so ALL xenos should be "marines -1" tier at most, and ALL chaos should be "marines" tier at most.
That sure does paint the imperium as the "besieged underdogs" doesn't it? if 10/13 factions of imperial armies are stronger and better than 100% of the competition to the imperium?
Sounds to me like the issue is the proliferation of Marines skewing the entire power dynamic no? Why GW as an entire tab on their webstore for SM separate from the Imperium is comical to think about but it's the unfortunate truth.
And besides, we're talking about how a faction functions on a spectrum of hordes or elite so I'm not sure where you think I meant that "All xenos should be marines -1 tier when I'm asking should Necrons play more like Orks or Custodes not should Necrons be as good as Orks or Custodes?
Edit: Just to clarify my stance to erase any misunderstanding. I am personally fine with Warriors being less than Marines and Immortals being MEQ with Lychguard and Praetorians greater than this. Why? Because then it allows me the option to choose how I want to build and play my army. If I want to fight numbers with numbers against Tyranids, I have the option of Silver Tiding with Warriors, Scarabs and Ghost Arks. If I want to go blow-for-blow with Primaris, I can do so using Immortals and Lychguard. Grey Knights, as an example, do not have this option of versatile list building and that's fine. Necrons need more was to play beyond MEQ that stands back up when killed not less IMHO.
Why does every Xenos army need to have a horde option? Also, define "horde". If I could take 100 Necron Warriors at 18 ppm, would that not be a "horde" or "silver tide"? IMO you don't need 11 point models to make a 'horde'. And if Warriors were 18 and we went up from there, what's wrong with Praetorians being 35? Do they even have to be 35? SM Command squads don't much more than Tacticals until you start loading them up with gear.
the_scotsman wrote: ...and then the marines show up and effortlessly dunk on every single new necron unit they showcase in the vid while the female voiceover explains that if you believe in fairies and clap your hands, the emperor will send his big, strong, awesome, amazing, sugoiiiiii sempais to notice you..
Such a disappointing moment. Marines even take over the VO.
Still not sure whether Sisters were there by virtue of being a recent major army revamp, or to deflect criticism, or as a hint of being another early Codex... but they left no doubt who the real heroes of the Imperium are.
To be fair, I think the 'besieged underdogs' aspect has already been lost by the sheer weight of Marine armies.
It's hard to think of them as being under threat when they seem to outnumber even Tyranids.
And to be fair, that has nothing to do with lore. It has everything to do with how Marines are the 'poster' faction and everyone talks about them being OP.
It does have something to do with lore - despite the apparently dire situation the Imperium finds itself in they were still able to reinforce basically all existing Marine Chapters with Primaris, found a bunch of new Ultima Chapters, and re-found a bunch of previously lost Chapters.
Much stakes. Very dire.
Unveil a bunch of new weapons, reclaim a ton of lost technology, resurrect their primarch who has since kicked the tuckus of one of the chaos primarchs who had literally been ascending to demigodhood for the 10,000 years that Guilliman was a glorified Futurama jar head, destroy a hive fleet tendril, launch a massive crusade, beat magnus a second time, receive direct guidance from the emperor, mobilize the silent sisters and the custodes...
GW is just so addicted to their bolterporn that they prematurely marineculate every time they try to spend a second setting up stakes. The new necrons in that video are a perfect example - they're like, overwhelming and spooky for about 0.00000000000000000001 second and then the marines show up and effortlessly dunk on every single new necron unit they showcase in the vid while the female voiceover explains that if you believe in fairies and clap your hands, the emperor will send his big, strong, awesome, amazing, sugoiiiiii sempais to notice you..
Yeah, that trailer seemed to encompass everything wrong with 40k.
Not least the fact that it's impossible to make any xeno race threatening because none of them are allowed to be an actual threat to marines. Hell, even Sisters of Battle apparently have better Resurrection Protocols than Necrons. Because that's the only way I can explain someone having their helmet cut clean in two but their head somehow being completely fine afterwards.
What's more, it seemed a perfect example of Necrons being an NPC race. They're supposed to have actual personalities and goals now (goals beyond 'Exterminate! Exterminate', I mean), but does that come across at all in the trailer? No. They might as well have been generic robot baddies sent by Dr. Eggman.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/08/20 20:00:47
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Off the top of my head Praetorians are 23ppm and Lychguard 25?
I'm just curious where you view Necrons as a faction on the spectrum of hordes to elite.
To me it seems like GW is aiming for the faction as a whole to offer a versatile playstyle that isn't just MEQ that get back up when killed.
Theyre about the equivalent of sisters of battle/current CSM. Vehicles cost about the same, infantry costs 1-2 points more in most cases.Valorous Heart sisters play incredibly similar to necrons.
Which puts them underneath marines, special marines, custodes, and knights, and more elite than guard and admech. 2/13 imperial codexes. and necrons are pretty much the most elite xenos faction, unless you believe the glorified guardsman that is an eldar guardian is actually worth 10ppm XD
Yeah that's about where I'd say Necrons are and what they should be, IMO, on the hordes to elite scale. Besides, after CA2020 I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to GW and points
Cool, so ALL xenos should be "marines -1" tier at most, and ALL chaos should be "marines" tier at most.
That sure does paint the imperium as the "besieged underdogs" doesn't it? if 10/13 factions of imperial armies are stronger and better than 100% of the competition to the imperium?
Sounds to me like the issue is the proliferation of Marines skewing the entire power dynamic no? Why GW as an entire tab on their webstore for SM separate from the Imperium is comical to think about but it's the unfortunate truth.
And besides, we're talking about how a faction functions on a spectrum of hordes or elite so I'm not sure where you think I meant that "All xenos should be marines -1 tier when I'm asking should Necrons play more like Orks or Custodes not should Necrons be as good as Orks or Custodes?
Edit: Just to clarify my stance to erase any misunderstanding. I am personally fine with Warriors being less than Marines and Immortals being MEQ with Lychguard and Praetorians greater than this. Why? Because then it allows me the option to choose how I want to build and play my army. If I want to fight numbers with numbers against Tyranids, I have the option of Silver Tiding with Warriors, Scarabs and Ghost Arks. If I want to go blow-for-blow with Primaris, I can do so using Immortals and Lychguard. Grey Knights, as an example, do not have this option of versatile list building and that's fine. Necrons need more was to play beyond MEQ that stands back up when killed not less IMHO.
Why does every Xenos army need to have a horde option? Also, define "horde". If I could take 100 Necron Warriors at 18 ppm, would that not be a "horde" or "silver tide"? IMO you don't need 11 point models to make a 'horde'. And if Warriors were 18 and we went up from there, what's wrong with Praetorians being 35? Do they even have to be 35? SM Command squads don't much more than Tacticals until you start loading them up with gear.
I never said every Xenos army needs to have a horde option. I simply said why I would like for Necrons to have a horde option for versatility sake and cause you know, "Their Number is Legion". I mean 100 Warriors at 18ppm? 1800 points of your 2k army? Unless you were memeing with friends then no one even considers that to be a decent or viable army, we all know that 18ppm does not constitute a viable horde army if that's the price of your most basic infantry, although with 9th and CA2020 who really knows anymore. What's wrong with Praetorians being 35? Nothing. Never once said there was. I used that number as a ballpark based on Praetorians being 23 and Immortals 18 for a hypothetical of what if Immortals went back to their 3rd Ed cost (Assuming of course Praetorians are still seen as better/more elite than Immortals and not just a side-grade) and I wanted to know what you thought in that hypothetical situation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/20 20:49:21
The Qarnakh Dynasty - Starting Again From scratch...Once again
kirotheavenger wrote: People like straws, and they're not willing to give any up even as the camel begins to buckle.
2020/08/20 21:00:21
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Doomscythe is looking Tasty now.... DDA is the same except for the 3+ save, which is nice. Indicates a trend and I think that means QS is likely staying around in it's current form.
D6 Shots and D6 damage still on the DDA is...unfortunate but I'll welcome the 3+ save anyway.
Also the Tesla on the Croissants are now 10 shots rather than 8 and I'm thankful for the flat 3 shots for the Deathray as well as the fact that Sautekh is no longer the only way to make them viable.
The Qarnakh Dynasty - Starting Again From scratch...Once again
kirotheavenger wrote: People like straws, and they're not willing to give any up even as the camel begins to buckle.
2020/08/20 21:25:01
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Mixzremixzd wrote: D6 Shots and D6 damage still on the DDA is...unfortunate but I'll welcome the 3+ save anyway.
Also the Tesla on the Croissants are now 10 shots rather than 8 and I'm thankful for the flat 3 shots for the Deathray as well as the fact that Sautekh is no longer the only way to make them viable.
D3+3 Damage is also a huge improvement for the Deathray.
Blndmage wrote: How are people saying they transport Skorptekh things?
The transport rule was written when there werent' characters that weren't infantry except destroyer lord. Thus GA can transport characters EXCEPT destroyer lord. Now with skorpek lord it slips through loophole and some people are so TFG's they want to exploit that even though it's only for brief period rather than learn how to actually win with tactics. Exploiting loopholes to compensate for own inability.
Finding these loopholes is what competitive 40k is all about. You don't win competitive games with fluff lists. So far no one complained when I told them that they are infantry characters, because it's normal for infantry characters to use transports.
2020/08/20 21:52:05
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
I never said every Xenos army needs to have a horde option. I simply said why I would like for Necrons to have a horde option for versatility sake and cause you know, "Their Number is Legion". I mean 100 Warriors at 18ppm? 1800 points of your 2k army? Unless you were memeing with friends then no one even considers that to be a decent or viable army, we all know that 18ppm does not constitute a viable horde army if that's the price of your most basic infantry, although with 9th and CA2020 who really knows anymore. What's wrong with Praetorians being 35? Nothing. Never once said there was. I used that number as a ballpark based on Praetorians being 23 and Immortals 18 for a hypothetical of what if Immortals went back to their 3rd Ed cost (Assuming of course Praetorians are still seen as better/more elite than Immortals and not just a side-grade) and I wanted to know what you thought in that hypothetical situation.
Ahh, see. . . running an army of 18 pt Warriors in 3rd was actually kind of a thing, and it was pretty viable. It could be a very tough to kill army in those days when you stuck a Lord with a Resurrection Orb in the middle of it.
Doomscythe is looking Tasty now.... DDA is the same except for the 3+ save, which is nice. Indicates a trend and I think that means QS is likely staying around in it's current form.
How you figure　that? Qs was more of compensation for low t and saves. If save improves...
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/08/20 21:58:16
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Why oh why have they not changed the random shots and damage on the DDA...
Sasori wrote: DDA is the same except for the 3+ save, which is nice. Indicates a trend and I think that means QS is likely staying around in it's current form.
To me it indicates that QS will be nerfed to just ignore on a 6 or something like that.
2020/08/20 22:14:01
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Yeah, that trailer seemed to encompass everything wrong with 40k.
Not least the fact that it's impossible to make any xeno race threatening because none of them are allowed to be an actual threat to marines. Hell, even Sisters of Battle apparently have better Resurrection Protocols than Necrons. Because that's the only way I can explain someone having their helmet cut clean in two but their head somehow being completely fine afterwards.
What's more, it seemed a perfect example of Necrons being an NPC race. They're supposed to have actual personalities and goals now (goals beyond 'Exterminate! Exterminate', I mean), but does that come across at all in the trailer? No. They might as well have been generic robot baddies sent by Dr. Eggman.
Oh my god. It's a promotional trailer not a gd movie. What about those Astra militarum? I didn't see their motivations. NPC RACE!
2020/08/20 22:37:32
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Unless you were memeing with friends then no one even considers that to be a decent or viable army, we all know that 18ppm does not constitute a viable horde army if that's the price of your most basic infantry, although with 9th and CA2020 who really knows anymore. What's wrong with Praetorians being 35? Nothing. Never once said there was. I used that number as a ballpark based on Praetorians being 23 and Immortals 18 for a hypothetical of what if Immortals went back to their 3rd Ed cost (Assuming of course Praetorians are still seen as better/more elite than Immortals and not just a side-grade) and I wanted to know what you thought in that hypothetical situation.
4000+
Thousand Sons 4000+
