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Cynista wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Cynista wrote:
Why oh why have they not changed the random shots and damage on the DDA...

Probably because it's a Blast weapon now.

AFAIK that doesn't help against their main target which is vehicles and doesn't help random damage either.

Sentinels!

And that might explain the random shots, but why not 2d3 damage? Or something other than d6?

The random shots is whatever since it does have 10-20 extra Flayer shots and it'll probably be blast, BUT randumb damage is a negative.

tneva82 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Doomscythe is looking Tasty now.... DDA is the same except for the 3+ save, which is nice. Indicates a trend and I think that means QS is likely staying around in it's current form.

How you figure　that? Qs was more of compensation for low t and saves. If save improves...

If QS wasn't staying around In someform I feel like they would have buffed up our Toughness, as even a Rhino is T7. With both the Triarch Stalker and the Arks staying the same T, even though the Ark save improved, makes me feel like it's staying around in some form.

Cynista wrote:
Why oh why have they not changed the random shots and damage on the DDA...

 Sasori wrote:
DDA is the same except for the 3+ save, which is nice. Indicates a trend and I think that means QS is likely staying around in it's current form.

To me it indicates that QS will be nerfed to just ignore on a 6 or something like that.

If it was changed, I guess that it will be changed to invalnulable save instead.
and 6+++ is unlikely to heppen, it is no way that Necron’s highly advance shilding technology is effective as only miracle and less effective that DG’s thick fresh

My worry is now dda has a 3+ will they just get a 5++ like the walker and loose quantum shielding. The flat 3 shots and d3+3 damage makes the doomscythes alot more reliable and the 10 Tesla is really nice, might need to give my croissants a dust.

 vipoid wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

To be fair, I think the 'besieged underdogs' aspect has already been lost by the sheer weight of Marine armies.

It's hard to think of them as being under threat when they seem to outnumber even Tyranids.

And to be fair, that has nothing to do with lore. It has everything to do with how Marines are the 'poster' faction and everyone talks about them being OP.

It does have something to do with lore - despite the apparently dire situation the Imperium finds itself in they were still able to reinforce basically all existing Marine Chapters with Primaris, found a bunch of new Ultima Chapters, and re-found a bunch of previously lost Chapters.

Much stakes. Very dire.

Unveil a bunch of new weapons, reclaim a ton of lost technology, resurrect their primarch who has since kicked the tuckus of one of the chaos primarchs who had literally been ascending to demigodhood for the 10,000 years that Guilliman was a glorified Futurama jar head, destroy a hive fleet tendril, launch a massive crusade, beat magnus a second time, receive direct guidance from the emperor, mobilize the silent sisters and the custodes...

GW is just so addicted to their bolterporn that they prematurely marineculate every time they try to spend a second setting up stakes. The new necrons in that video are a perfect example - they're like, overwhelming and spooky for about 0.00000000000000000001 second and then the marines show up and effortlessly dunk on every single new necron unit they showcase in the vid while the female voiceover explains that if you believe in fairies and clap your hands, the emperor will send his big, strong, awesome, amazing, sugoiiiiii sempais to notice you..

Yeah, that trailer seemed to encompass everything wrong with 40k.

Not least the fact that it's impossible to make any xeno race threatening because none of them are allowed to be an actual threat to marines. Hell, even Sisters of Battle apparently have better Resurrection Protocols than Necrons. Because that's the only way I can explain someone having their helmet cut clean in two but their head somehow being completely fine afterwards.

What's more, it seemed a perfect example of Necrons being an NPC race. They're supposed to have actual personalities and goals now (goals beyond 'Exterminate! Exterminate', I mean), but does that come across at all in the trailer? No. They might as well have been generic robot baddies sent by Dr. Eggman.

the only necrons we see in that trailer are warriors (who have no personality) and destoyers, whom quite literally are "Exterminate"

also you realize canonicly the 'crons WON that conflict right?

BrianDavion wrote:
the only necrons we see in that trailer are warriors (who have no personality) and destoyers, whom quite literally are "Exterminate"

also you realize canonicly the 'crons WON that conflict right?

Would someone watching that video get that impression? Because if not, that's a problem.

Quantum Shielding will surely be changed. Now that weapons are getting D6+2 and D3+3 damage it's just going to bounce off. Imagine using a CP to reroll a 6 for damage, hoping for a 1 or 2? They can't introduce all these shiny new Imperium melta weapons and have them be useless against units in the first Xenos codex.

Well they did change melta already so you DONT have to pick the highest damage roll, before that quantum shielding did ignore melta most the time and it was funny when people had to re roll there 6 damage roll.

 JNAProductions wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the only necrons we see in that trailer are warriors (who have no personality) and destoyers, whom quite literally are "Exterminate"

also you realize canonicly the 'crons WON that conflict right?

Would someone watching that video get that impression? Because if not, that's a problem.

the video ended right as the biggest bad showed up the impression I got, TBH was "who will win? PLAY A GAME AND FIND OUT!" but I admit I don't suffer from Xenos Persecution complex.

BrianDavion wrote:


the video ended right as the biggest bad showed up the impression I got, TBH was "who will win? PLAY A GAME AND FIND OUT!" but I admit I don't suffer from Xenos Persecution complex.

Not when you're too busy suffering from Marine Entitlement Fever.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


the video ended right as the biggest bad showed up the impression I got, TBH was "who will win? PLAY A GAME AND FIND OUT!" but I admit I don't suffer from Xenos Persecution complex.

Not when you're too busy suffering from Marine Entitlement Fever.

I'm not the one complaining that a trailer wasn't an endless snuff film of aliens killing humans.

 Oaka wrote:
Quantum Shielding will surely be changed. Now that weapons are getting D6+2 and D3+3 damage it's just going to bounce off. Imagine using a CP to reroll a 6 for damage, hoping for a 1 or 2? They can't introduce all these shiny new Imperium melta weapons and have them be useless against units in the first Xenos codex.

To be honest I see your point, but as our vehicles are staying T6 I hope they leave QS alone in the niche of "you want to counter this with medium strength low damage" such as Autocannons, gatling cannons and plasma. Its not like space marines cant counter it currently and melta weapons are still good against out multi wound units. But i can see your point and if QS is overhauled I won't be surprised

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ahh, see. . . running an army of 18 pt Warriors in 3rd was actually kind of a thing, and it was pretty viable. It could be a very tough to kill army in those days when you stuck a Lord with a Resurrection Orb in the middle of it.

Interesting, it's good to know how thinks worked previously. Still I guess this discussion has only shown the difference between an OG Necron player and a Newcron like me

 Oaka wrote:
Quantum Shielding will surely be changed. Now that weapons are getting D6+2 and D3+3 damage it's just going to bounce off. Imagine using a CP to reroll a 6 for damage, hoping for a 1 or 2? They can't introduce all these shiny new Imperium melta weapons and have them be useless against units in the first Xenos codex.

I fear you may be right but really hope you aren't. QS is the one rule Necrons currently have that makes them feel genuinely technologically advanced to the point of being near-magical. All their other "high tech" stuff seems to have a bunch of stupid restrictions (like their teleport transports) or be surpassed by SM stuff (like their generally good AP). But QS is the one rule that I look at and think it perfectly represents the horror of facing Necrons in-universe. I can imagine a faction's first encounter with Necrons and see them rolling out their lascannons, melta weapons, railguns and the like then looking on in horror as every single shot does absolutely nothing.

QS is thematically excellent as it also captures in game terms the requirement to adapt your way of fighting to a threat that is so alien it makes you question the effectiveness of your own technology. Dropping it for a bland 5++ would be a typical, and stupid, GW move.

Really like those Doom Scythe changes. Obviously it might be pretty pricey and investing too heavily in non-Obsec units is dicey in 9th, but I like that it's just very consistently strong in what it does now and has a clear potential for doing lots of damage.

That's something that really sucked about a lot of the units in 8th. Even with all the points drops, they were just never worth it because the damage potential just wasn't there. It's nice to see this problem being addressed although weirdly a lot of the new statlines for new models are suffering from it. The Emnitic gun for the LHD is a great example of something that, even assuming it was made cheaper, fulfills no real obvious niche or role and is just underwhelming in every respect. The same applies to the Reanimator and how, even if RP is now really good, the statline, the inability to take them in a squadron and the points cost just kind of relegate the unit to irrelevancy.

With all the consistencies between the Edge of Silence/Indomitus stuff and the new rules in the boxes, it almost feels like they were designed by two different teams who only shared limited information. Which also makes me believe that actually the Codex may have some pretty big divergences from them.

 bennyboy6189 wrote:
Well they did change melta already so you DONT have to pick the highest damage roll, before that quantum shielding did ignore melta most the time and it was funny when people had to re roll there 6 damage roll.

Melta will be changed to D6+2 damage in half range or less. Against crons melta will not be fired within half range. I dont think QS will be changed. Whenever you see eradicators move as close as possible with your QS unit

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ahh, see. . . running an army of 18 pt Warriors in 3rd was actually kind of a thing, and it was pretty viable. It could be a very tough to kill army in those days when you stuck a Lord with a Resurrection Orb in the middle of it.

Interesting, it's good to know how thinks worked previously. Still I guess this discussion has only shown the difference between an OG Necron player and a Newcron like me

In fairness necrons only had about 9 units back then so options were limited.

Having seen the new Flyer profiles it definitely looks better. Necron flyers sucked hard in 8th. This is depending what special rules they add of course.

Am I right in thinking that on average the doom sycthe does 12W against t7 3+ a turn?

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Am I right in thinking that on average the doom sycthe does 12W against t7 3+ a turn?

8,3 is more accurate.

10/6*6/6*3/3+3/6*4/6*4*5

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Am I right in thinking that on average the doom sycthe does 12W against t7 3+ a turn?

Might I humbly show you how http://www.dice-hammer.com will get that result for you; just enter the weapon stats, tick for tesla, and voila, looks like this:



And there it is, 8.33, and you see how it performs for other units too.

torblind wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Am I right in thinking that on average the doom sycthe does 12W against t7 3+ a turn?

Might I humbly show you how http://www.dice-hammer.com will get that result for you; just enter the weapon stats, tick for tesla, and voila, looks like this:



And there it is, 8.33, and you see how it performs for other units too.

Nice thanks for that, so its quite a good weapon on average as that's not bad at all for damage

QS is fine the way it is, it is not OP and has decent counters. I fail to see the logic that because Melta got buffed, QS Needs a nerf.

Claas wrote:
QS is fine the way it is, it is not OP and has decent counters. I fail to see the logic that because Melta got buffed, QS Needs a nerf.

The logic is that marines cant have a disadvantage from some xenos scum rule. Marines first.

 p5freak wrote:

Claas wrote:
QS is fine the way it is, it is not OP and has decent counters. I fail to see the logic that because Melta got buffed, QS Needs a nerf.

The logic is that marines cant have a disadvantage from some xenos scum rule. Marines first.

As a Marine player I hardly see QS as being an issue for Marines, Marines have plenty of tools to handle necron QS. Hellblasters are almost MADE to handle them.

BrianDavion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Claas wrote:
QS is fine the way it is, it is not OP and has decent counters. I fail to see the logic that because Melta got buffed, QS Needs a nerf.

The logic is that marines cant have a disadvantage from some xenos scum rule. Marines first.

As a Marine player I hardly see QS as being an issue for Marines, Marines have plenty of tools to handle necron QS. Hellblasters are almost MADE to handle them.

You mean like LC or ML which have D6 damage ? Marines normally dont spam D2 guns as anti armour. When he rolls high i have a good chance ignoring the damage, and when he rolls low i dont suffer much damage. Hellblasters are a bit of a problem, but they are only 36". DDAs can stay away from them with 72".

Speaking as a marine and Necron player, marines have other options, and funnily enough, a lot of the guns that are good for taking down all of these 2 wound infantry models, do plenty of work against QS.

Besides that, every other army is expected to adapt and bring versatile lists that handle multiple types of armies, no reason marines can't do the same, especially when they have more options available to them than any other army. Necrons shouldn't be nerfed because marines want to spam d6 damage weapons as their only option for taking down vehicles.

Hellblasters will be the real problem unit for QS units, but it just depends on how good they are in 9th. The increased stats on their guns help them, but that just means they could go up in price which is where all their problems lie and so you'd continue to not see people take them.

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