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Claas wrote:
QS is fine the way it is, it is not OP and has decent counters. I fail to see the logic that because Melta got buffed, QS Needs a nerf.

It messes up with primaris new toy. In case you haven't noticed primaris marines are GW's current pet toys(before it was regular marines). Nothing that hinders marine's can be allowed. They are supposed to be the heroic master race. Rest are just NPC for master race to defeat easily.


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 Sasori wrote:

Also confirmed as an elite and a character! You start him off the board and he clears enemy objectives well.

Well he kills about one T4 W2 3+ guy. Since it's pistol version of guns that didn't get dam2 he's not getting dam2 guns and GW decided dam1 weapons are to be irrelevant in damage output. There just isn't unit relevant in 9e that it kills efficiently.

It's edition too late. Light infantry has died to exctinction in 9e. Light infantry kiler thus has no real role left to do. Only reason you would take this is basically cheap deep striker to score some secondaries(line breaker, engage all front etc). Killing? Nope. Ideally you will land this in safe place he sees nobody and nobody sees him.


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 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I cant imagine that if there are six of them, and you can shoot again everytime you kill a model, that they will be more than one shot each. Even at 6 shots total and S6, ap -1, that thing will absolutely murder chaff or light infantry if it gets to keep shooting it's full complement of shots.

Chaff of 9e is W2 3+ save models though...

Only if you're playing against marines....

And I don't know about you, but even Space Marines arent the only army I ever face off against. I would very happily send this guy after things like Dark Reapers


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Let's face it, Tesla is still king of Chaff Removing, and the fact warriors aren't laughable now is also going to help with dropping a wall of bodies.

Dudeface wrote:
My only hope in all this is the codex comes out in the wash better than the marine one, not because I dislike marines, not because I want crons to be top tier. Just purely to stop the whinefest about marines.

Nah, I'm quite happy being middle of the pack. I've been through a couple of periods when necrons were top of the heap and it was worse than being at the bottom of the barrel due to all of the whining I had to deal with.

Yeah honestly all I want is an interesting army with some teeth that, if played well, could go 5-1 at a top level tournament, but otherwise has a lot of flavour and cool synergies. If it has lots of list variety and you can easily find people wanting to play you then it'll be a success in my mind.

I don't want an 8.5 Marine Codex. I actually want to find opponents who want to play me and who will enjoy the game.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Yeah honestly all I want is an interesting army with some teeth that, if played well, could go 5-1 at a top level tournament, but otherwise has a lot of flavour and cool synergies. If it has lots of list variety and you can easily find people wanting to play you then it'll be a success in my mind.

I don't want an 8.5 Marine Codex. I actually want to find opponents who want to play me and who will enjoy the game.

You'd have a point if it weren't for the fact basically 100% of the other codices besides Marine 2.0 were so bland AND imbalanced.

 IHateNids wrote:
I always thought it was the difference between an actual malefic curse for the Flayers, and just generic computer data corruption for the Destroyers.

Not too sure if I buy into the "self acceptance" thing for Destroyers, but it seems about as plausible as anything else I've seen. Fall of Damnos has a few passages written from their Phaeron's perspective, and he succumbs to the desire for destruction eventually

Eh, I think it would be more interesting if the Destroyer affliction is a side effect of Biotransference and is a inevitable state that all necrons will eventually succumb too.
They were created by the C'tan to serve as soldiers, after all, and one of the core motivations behind Biotransference was hatred for the Old Ones. As the Old Ones apparently created most life-forms in the galaxy, its not hard to imagine that old hatred in the Necron's programming flaring up now and again and taking it out on living creatures.
Consider the Undead Curse from Dark Souls for reference.

Gav Thorpe's version really just makes the Destroyers look like emos listening to Linkin Park 24/7 and running into their tantrum rooms because the Overlord wouldn't let them purge more humans.

As for if the Hexmark is crap or not...doesn't matter, cool model, still getting him.
I like how in 9th ed they are introducing more destroyer types. Maybe we'll get a destroyer troop unit so we can field pure destroyer battalions.
Like, I dunno, a floating warrior torso and head with particle weapons for arms or something.

 IHateNids wrote:
Only if you're playing against marines....

And I don't know about you, but even Space Marines arent the only army I ever face off against. I would very happily send this guy after things like Dark Reapers


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Let's face it, Tesla is still king of Chaff Removing, and the fact warriors aren't laughable now is also going to help with dropping a wall of bodies.

Other factions are just dropping light infantry. Orks? Nobody sane takes their troops except maybe bare minimum and you don't bring that necron sniper character to clear some grots...

GW has made 9e so that light infantry has no feasible role. Only reason you take them is to save 3CP if you deem that's worth paying points for junk.

Dark reapers? You think he will allow your pistol weapons to get in range...

Generally I assume I'm not playing against idiot when I'm building my army.

tneva82 wrote:

Claas wrote:
QS is fine the way it is, it is not OP and has decent counters. I fail to see the logic that because Melta got buffed, QS Needs a nerf.

It messes up with primaris new toy. In case you haven't noticed primaris marines are GW's current pet toys(before it was regular marines). Nothing that hinders marine's can be allowed. They are supposed to be the heroic master race. Rest are just NPC for master race to defeat easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

Also confirmed as an elite and a character! You start him off the board and he clears enemy objectives well.

Well he kills about one T4 W2 3+ guy. Since it's pistol version of guns that didn't get dam2 he's not getting dam2 guns and GW decided dam1 weapons are to be irrelevant in damage output. There just isn't unit relevant in 9e that it kills efficiently.

It's edition too late. Light infantry has died to exctinction in 9e. Light infantry kiler thus has no real role left to do. Only reason you would take this is basically cheap deep striker to score some secondaries(line breaker, engage all front etc). Killing? Nope. Ideally you will land this in safe place he sees nobody and nobody sees him.


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 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I cant imagine that if there are six of them, and you can shoot again everytime you kill a model, that they will be more than one shot each. Even at 6 shots total and S6, ap -1, that thing will absolutely murder chaff or light infantry if it gets to keep shooting it's full complement of shots.

Chaff of 9e is W2 3+ save models though...

I think its a bit too early to cout out the hexmark.

Fair enough i agree his weapons will be only 1 damage (maybe blast d3 shots each though if we go by the Enmitic weapon trend) but we don't know about his special rules as i'm hopeful he might have a dead eye ability which means on 6s he scores a MW or something as he is still a trained sniper at the end of the day and knows how to look for weakpoints in armour

Maybe it'll get an improved version of the old Deathmark marking ability, where you pick a unit you really want dead and it gets bonuses against it?

If it gets a marking ability, then it would not be the same as the original; the original granted 2+ to hit iirc, which in 9th ed is redundant as deathmarks are confirmed to hit on 2+ now, and it would make no sense for a destroyer deathmark to hit on worse than 2+.

Does anyone have the dimensions for a Transcendant C'tan on hand? After playing some Dark Crusade again I was looking at some C'tan proxies for my Phaerakh when I stumbled on this and I wanna make sure it's roughly the same shape before I set aside some hobby money for it.

Also, since there's been practically crickets at this point I'm assuming the C'tan are staying the same when the codex drops, Void Dragon notwithstanding.

tneva82 wrote:
Dark reapers? You think he will allow your pistol weapons to get in range...

Generally I assume I'm not playing against idiot when I'm building my army.

You can deep strike - so while they can screen you out, that alone might be worth something if the model is cheap.

Killing 3 immortals isn't awful if he's circa 80-100 points.

As I see it most lists are including something fragile (whether its a cheap troops unit or a cheap character they can LOS block) to hold some backfield objectives while the bulk of their force moves into the centre of the board.

Really what would be nice is some sort of "Super Obsec" and a reroll to charge, so you can shoot some guys on an objective, and then jump on to claim - or at least deny it to your opponent. But that might be asking too much.

tneva82 wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
Only if you're playing against marines....

And I don't know about you, but even Space Marines arent the only army I ever face off against. I would very happily send this guy after things like Dark Reapers


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Let's face it, Tesla is still king of Chaff Removing, and the fact warriors aren't laughable now is also going to help with dropping a wall of bodies.

Other factions are just dropping light infantry. Orks? Nobody sane takes their troops except maybe bare minimum and you don't bring that necron sniper character to clear some grots...

GW has made 9e so that light infantry has no feasible role. Only reason you take them is to save 3CP if you deem that's worth paying points for junk.

Dark reapers? You think he will allow your pistol weapons to get in range...

Generally I assume I'm not playing against idiot when I'm building my army.

Generally playing against idiots or not has yet to come into it.

I find that there's always a valid target for a Veiled squad of Immortals, against the reigning champion of our local tourney scene or against someone who is new to army purchased to win (Legit schooled an Imperial Fists pay-to-win player last year's final. Schooled him so hard he sold the army)

I don't find it hard to believe at all that one of these new Hexmarks can easily find a valid target in every single match.

My plan is to drop something in with this guy, possibly some Praetorians if they can Deep Strike this new codex to wrap him, and then he'll melt a screen and then they'll shoot whats behind it.

As for the Hexmark; my guess will be something in the neighborhood of 6d3 or 2d3+3 or d6+6 shots, they confirmed str 6, confirmed BS 2+ reroll 1's, and since he deploys same as or similar to Deathmarks the only issue will be the range on his guns.
My guess will be they will put his range long enough that if you take Mephrit he will be able to deploy close enough to get the additional AP with Mephrit's new range bonus.

For those lamenting d1 pistols will be ineffective as there are no longer any decent targets, this guy will absoloutely melt most squads of infiltrators, (genestealers, scouts, greenskins shenanigans, pathfinders etc) then use his additional shots to pop the attached character or turn around and take potshots at their front line.

Do pistols still get to be used in melee? If so you can imagine him landing in someones back-line, deleting a squad (or two!) of cheap objective campers, then overwatching a counter charge and then pistolling in combat!

ALSO as he counts as a destroyer he may interact with Destroyer/Skorpekh Lords, gaining their rerolls to wound, abke to help clear chaff for either shooty or choppy destroyer variants

tneva82 wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
Only if you're playing against marines....

And I don't know about you, but even Space Marines arent the only army I ever face off against. I would very happily send this guy after things like Dark Reapers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's face it, Tesla is still king of Chaff Removing, and the fact warriors aren't laughable now is also going to help with dropping a wall of bodies.

Other factions are just dropping light infantry. Orks? Nobody sane takes their troops except maybe bare minimum and you don't bring that necron sniper character to clear some grots...

GW has made 9e so that light infantry has no feasible role. Only reason you take them is to save 3CP if you deem that's worth paying points for junk.

Dark reapers? You think he will allow your pistol weapons to get in range...

Generally I assume I'm not playing against idiot when I'm building my army.

I think it's too early to say what the 9th meta will look like and what role different types of unit will play.

Apart from anything else some armies don't really have much of an option about whether to run light infantry or not. Craftworlds likely will in some fashion, Harlequins have to, as do GSC, IG most certainly will. Given that we don't even know the stats for the Hexmark's weapons or have details on its special rules it seems like it's too early to call it useless.

(Been trying to log in for days; have a lot to say)
As for the new Monolith; if there was ever a candidate for proliferating the rule that caps incoming damage (like gaz) here it is. They HAVE to improve the monolith after 3 editions of relative suckage, especially with such an amazing new kit, with weapon options and apparent blackstone thrown in.

Shocked to see the Reanimator looking to be DoA

Entire codex is going to hinge on what they do with Reanimation Protocols and those army wide "canticle" type protocols they hinted at with the Dynastic Codes imho.

We have seen a lot of datasheets but there may still be special rules that augment each model we arent privy to yet.

-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
(Been trying to log in for days; have a lot to say)
As for the new Monolith; if there was ever a candidate for proliferating the rule that caps incoming damage (like gaz) here it is. They HAVE to improve the monolith after 3 editions of relative suckage, especially with such an amazing new kit, with weapon options and apparent blackstone thrown in.

Shocked to see the Reanimator looking to be DoA

Entire codex is going to hinge on what they do with Reanimation Protocols and those army wide "canticle" type protocols they hinted at with the Dynastic Codes imho.

We have seen a lot of datasheets but there may still be special rules that augment each model we arent privy to yet.

I'm thinking well see more leaks next month in preparation for when our codex drops in October

Im really liking the warrior's alternate weapon option, synergizing with our unique way of using transports. Beyond 10 in a ghost ark (which I totally am going to do) you can take a full unit of Immortals, reaper-warriors, and something else; take a monolith and night scythe, and then decide what pops out of either each turn. THEN if your transports die; you can safely deploy the troops from the corrosponding board edges using the new strategic reserves rules.

Depending on the durability of the new Monolith; barfing out cheap(ish) 10/20 man reaper-warrior squads each turn all over the midfield firing point blank while the rest of your army does its work sounds fun!

We haven't seen the new rules for monoliths, scythes or arks though, and you can't deploy your warriors within RF range with the reserves rule.

I still have a whole squad of them from indomitus though, because I already have plenty of flayers. 80 of them to be precise.

-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
Im really liking the warrior's alternate weapon option, synergizing with our unique way of using transports. Beyond 10 in a ghost ark (which I totally am going to do) you can take a full unit of Immortals, reaper-warriors, and something else; take a monolith and night scythe, and then decide what pops out of either each turn. THEN if your transports die; you can safely deploy the troops from the corrosponding board edges using the new strategic reserves rules.

No, you cant. In matched play, necrons are the only faction who cant "disembark" from their transports in the first turn, because they dont really disembark. Units that arent set up on the battlefield are reinforcements, and those cannot arrive on the battlefield in the first turn, in matched play. Monolith and night scythes set up other units on the tomb world, rather than on the battlefield. This makes them reinforcements, because the tomb world isnt the battlefield. When your transports die, the units on the tomb world die as well. Read the invasion beams rule.

-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
Im really liking the warrior's alternate weapon option, synergizing with our unique way of using transports. Beyond 10 in a ghost ark (which I totally am going to do) you can take a full unit of Immortals, reaper-warriors, and something else; take a monolith and night scythe, and then decide what pops out of either each turn. THEN if your transports die; you can safely deploy the troops from the corrosponding board edges using the new strategic reserves rules.

Depending on the durability of the new Monolith; barfing out cheap(ish) 10/20 man reaper-warrior squads each turn all over the midfield firing point blank while the rest of your army does its work sounds fun!

Seeing all but 1 unit waiting dies at death of monolith it needs to be silly durable to rlsk putting more than 1. Current plus 4++ would not cut it.

Im sure we will retain the emergency disrmbarkation strategems, and I would be surprised if there was no interaction between our 'tomb world' reserves and the new 'strategic reserves' core rules.

One of the major complaints of 8th Necrons was severely hamstrung transport ability, thats why they made the emergency disembarkation strats in the first place.

And yes; the Monolith really needs to go back to being exceedingly hard to crack!

-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
Im sure we will retain the emergency disrmbarkation strategems, and I would be surprised if there was no interaction between our 'tomb world' reserves and the new 'strategic reserves' core rules.

One of the major complaints of 8th Necrons was severely hamstrung transport ability, thats why they made the emergency disembarkation strats in the first place.

And yes; the Monolith really needs to go back to being exceedingly hard to crack!

Yes. That's why I said you can put ONE unit. One. As in single. As in not more than one.Aka not multiples. If you put 3 squads of warriors inside and monolith dies there goes 2 units. Poof.

Ergo:

Seeing all but 1 unit waiting dies at death of monolith it needs to be silly durable to rlsk putting more than 1

Can put in one since you can save that one with stratagem. More than that and you risk losing more than just monolith when opponent takes it out

 p5freak wrote:
No, you cant. In matched play, necrons are the only faction who cant "disembark" from their transports in the first turn, because they dont really disembark. Units that arent set up on the battlefield are reinforcements, and those cannot arrive on the battlefield in the first turn, in matched play. Monolith and night scythes set up other units on the tomb world, rather than on the battlefield. This makes them reinforcements, because the tomb world isnt the battlefield. When your transports die, the units on the tomb world die as well. Read the invasion beams rule.

Could you tell me which page in the rulebook explains this? My understanding was that units with an inbuilt deepstrike could arrive on turn 1 (at the end of your movement phase), while Strategic Reserves (those who you put into reserve by paying CP) can only arrive starting turn 2.

@tneva82 dude. Chill out.
@a typical hero Thats a good concern... if we cant deepstrike till turn 2...and "reinforcements" step is after "movement" step... would that mean turn 2 monolith/night scythes arrive... then turn 3 disembark? Thats awfull

Anything not on board after deployment is reserves. That didn't change in 9th. And yes it means guys come out of monolith out of reserve T3 earliest.

Yuck. Unless the Monolith deploys with the army itself, exposing it to alpha strike and telegraphing its troop deployment.

Perhaps it will have its own rule/stratagem to deploy payloads faster.

For clarification's sake, here are the relevant rules:

- In step 10 Declare Reserves and Transports (page 282 of the core rule book or page 6 of the Grand Tournament 2020 pamphlet):

Reserve and Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round.

- On page 208 of the core rule book:

Reinforcements are any unit that starts the battle off the table.

I guess its kind of uninspired, but I'm really not sure what upside Necrons get over the monolith just having a transport capacity of 20-30 and calling it a day.

Nor do I see Night Scythes surviving to deploy their payload with having to spend a turn 'arriving' and being free to shoot at, especially with smaller table sizes

Why are we iterating all this? It's been clear for some time that 9th wasn't changing much wrt reinformcent rules. Nor was it likely it would. It's up to the codex to fix this, always was.