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 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How do you feel whether the shiny new units will contribute to the competitiveness of Necrons?

The new overlord is auto include IMO.
1 time use weapon is a monster - the move bonus and MWBD on any unit. Plus a better melee weapon.

I think it's stretching things to consider the Overlord a 'new unit', given that he's been in the game for 5 editions now.

The new rules do seem like an improvement, but I have to disagree about his one-use-only weapon being a monster. If anything, it seems like you're just asking to roll a 1 to hit or to wound (or to have it bounce off an invulnerable save).

Frankly, it looks like the exact sort of weapon that people are already avoiding due to how unreliable they are - and that's when they can expect to fire them more than once per game.

I know it's not what you'd take an Overlord for, but I'd still much rather have a weaker weapon that you can fire every turn, rather than putting all his eggs into a single shot.

Yeah. You've got a little over a 1/3 chance of hurting a 5++ Knight.

It's a nice little bonus, but nothing to rely on.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How do you feel whether the shiny new units will contribute to the competitiveness of Necrons?

The new overlord is auto include IMO.
1 time use weapon is a monster - the move bonus and MWBD on any unit. Plus a better melee weapon.
Royal warden seems very good. I have included him in many theory crafting lists - I feel he is a bit expensive for what he does. His cost is fine he just needs to do more IMO. An aura buff of some kind would be good.
The re-constructor is over-pointed badly
New warriors are probably the best "new unit" Reaper bomb is going to be quite good and the reroll 1's on reanimation isnt much but it is something!
New destroyers...why take them over wraiths or lychgaurd or even pretorians. Unless you prefer your melee slow and without invunes...6 man units might help them some.
The new illuminator dude I love. As soon as I get him physically I think I will include in most lists.
Plasmamancer...eh?

New Overlord rules are very nice. He’s is auto include for me in games over 1k. Small games I prefer Skorpekh Lord.

Royal Warden? Haven’t tried him yet but seems lackluster.

Reanimator, I don’t build lists around RP anyway but It’s so easy to kill.

Warriors - I think they are pretty solid right now. The reroll 1s RP helps. I still like in 10 man units over max.

Skorpekh Destroyers - I don’t think they are quite as slow as you make them out with smaller table sizes. Also terrain helps tremendously getting them into combat. But yes they do attract a lot of attention and rarely do they make it into a fight at full strength but that is not always a bad thing.

Skorpekh Lord - Auto Include For me. My favorite HQ right now, he has killed double his points for me many times. In small games he is a monster. Veil helps getting him in a fight. I veil him with either 10 warriors Or Skorpekh Ds.

Plasmancer- Hard to fit in a list but can have a use sitting on an objective with 2 crypto thralls hidden out of sight. They don’t attract a lot of attention until the mortal wounds start to pile up.

I'm hoping the new codex address HQ bloat as Necrons need way too many characters and can't for then all in a normal battalion.

Claas wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How do you feel whether the shiny new units will contribute to the competitiveness of Necrons?

The new overlord is auto include IMO.
1 time use weapon is a monster - the move bonus and MWBD on any unit. Plus a better melee weapon.
Royal warden seems very good. I have included him in many theory crafting lists - I feel he is a bit expensive for what he does. His cost is fine he just needs to do more IMO. An aura buff of some kind would be good.
The re-constructor is over-pointed badly
New warriors are probably the best "new unit" Reaper bomb is going to be quite good and the reroll 1's on reanimation isnt much but it is something!
New destroyers...why take them over wraiths or lychgaurd or even pretorians. Unless you prefer your melee slow and without invunes...6 man units might help them some.
The new illuminator dude I love. As soon as I get him physically I think I will include in most lists.
Plasmamancer...eh?

New Overlord rules are very nice. He’s is auto include for me in games over 1k. Small games I prefer Skorpekh Lord.

Royal Warden? Haven’t tried him yet but seems lackluster.

Reanimator, I don’t build lists around RP anyway but It’s so easy to kill.

Warriors - I think they are pretty solid right now. The reroll 1s RP helps. I still like in 10 man units over max.

Skorpekh Destroyers - I don’t think they are quite as slow as you make them out with smaller table sizes. Also terrain helps tremendously getting them into combat. But yes they do attract a lot of attention and rarely do they make it into a fight at full strength but that is not always a bad thing.

Skorpekh Lord - Auto Include For me. My favorite HQ right now, he has killed double his points for me many times. In small games he is a monster. Veil helps getting him in a fight. I veil him with either 10 warriors Or Skorpekh Ds.

Plasmancer- Hard to fit in a list but can have a use sitting on an objective with 2 crypto thralls hidden out of sight. They don’t attract a lot of attention until the mortal wounds start to pile up.

Did you really suggest the new Destroyers not making it into combat at full strength isn't a bad thing?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Claas wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How do you feel whether the shiny new units will contribute to the competitiveness of Necrons?

The new overlord is auto include IMO.
1 time use weapon is a monster - the move bonus and MWBD on any unit. Plus a better melee weapon.
Royal warden seems very good. I have included him in many theory crafting lists - I feel he is a bit expensive for what he does. His cost is fine he just needs to do more IMO. An aura buff of some kind would be good.
The re-constructor is over-pointed badly
New warriors are probably the best "new unit" Reaper bomb is going to be quite good and the reroll 1's on reanimation isnt much but it is something!
New destroyers...why take them over wraiths or lychgaurd or even pretorians. Unless you prefer your melee slow and without invunes...6 man units might help them some.
The new illuminator dude I love. As soon as I get him physically I think I will include in most lists.
Plasmamancer...eh?

New Overlord rules are very nice. He’s is auto include for me in games over 1k. Small games I prefer Skorpekh Lord.

Royal Warden? Haven’t tried him yet but seems lackluster.

Reanimator, I don’t build lists around RP anyway but It’s so easy to kill.

Warriors - I think they are pretty solid right now. The reroll 1s RP helps. I still like in 10 man units over max.

Skorpekh Destroyers - I don’t think they are quite as slow as you make them out with smaller table sizes. Also terrain helps tremendously getting them into combat. But yes they do attract a lot of attention and rarely do they make it into a fight at full strength but that is not always a bad thing.

Skorpekh Lord - Auto Include For me. My favorite HQ right now, he has killed double his points for me many times. In small games he is a monster. Veil helps getting him in a fight. I veil him with either 10 warriors Or Skorpekh Ds.

Plasmancer- Hard to fit in a list but can have a use sitting on an objective with 2 crypto thralls hidden out of sight. They don’t attract a lot of attention until the mortal wounds start to pile up.

Did you really suggest the new Destroyers not making it into combat at full strength isn't a bad thing?

If it means getting my Skorpekh Lord into combat full strength.

Skorpekh Lord looks pretty good. It's a minor thing, but I like that he actually gets a proper ranged weapon in addition to good melee weapons. Something our other HQs can't seem to wrap their heads around. -.-

Regarding the Plasmancer, I quite like the model design, albeit with a single exception. Because someone on the design team - you know who you are - decided that he needed a stupidly long chin. And yes, I know this has been a feature of previous Crypteks, and it looks equally crap on them, too. Worse still, I think the Plasmancer's is even longer than the absurd chin of the regular Crypteks.

Here comes the Crimson Chin!!!


Anyway, model-ruining design choices aside, the problem I have with the Plasmancer is that he seems to be a sort of pseudo-psyker, but I don't generally take Psykers for Smite (outside of maybe GKs or TS). The support powers are generally much more valuable, with Smite being little more than a backup.

And given that our HQ section is already pretty crowded with buffing HQs (some of which, while not able to dispense Mortal Wounds, can nevertheless fight a great deal better than the Plasmancer), I think it will struggle to find a place.

Also, I find it depressing that a weapon I'd love to have on an Overlord or Destroyer Lord in place of the garbage Staff of Light is stuck on a model with a single attack and WS/BS3+.

Claas wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Claas wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How do you feel whether the shiny new units will contribute to the competitiveness of Necrons?

The new overlord is auto include IMO.
1 time use weapon is a monster - the move bonus and MWBD on any unit. Plus a better melee weapon.
Royal warden seems very good. I have included him in many theory crafting lists - I feel he is a bit expensive for what he does. His cost is fine he just needs to do more IMO. An aura buff of some kind would be good.
The re-constructor is over-pointed badly
New warriors are probably the best "new unit" Reaper bomb is going to be quite good and the reroll 1's on reanimation isnt much but it is something!
New destroyers...why take them over wraiths or lychgaurd or even pretorians. Unless you prefer your melee slow and without invunes...6 man units might help them some.
The new illuminator dude I love. As soon as I get him physically I think I will include in most lists.
Plasmamancer...eh?

New Overlord rules are very nice. He’s is auto include for me in games over 1k. Small games I prefer Skorpekh Lord.

Royal Warden? Haven’t tried him yet but seems lackluster.

Reanimator, I don’t build lists around RP anyway but It’s so easy to kill.

Warriors - I think they are pretty solid right now. The reroll 1s RP helps. I still like in 10 man units over max.

Skorpekh Destroyers - I don’t think they are quite as slow as you make them out with smaller table sizes. Also terrain helps tremendously getting them into combat. But yes they do attract a lot of attention and rarely do they make it into a fight at full strength but that is not always a bad thing.

Skorpekh Lord - Auto Include For me. My favorite HQ right now, he has killed double his points for me many times. In small games he is a monster. Veil helps getting him in a fight. I veil him with either 10 warriors Or Skorpekh Ds.

Plasmancer- Hard to fit in a list but can have a use sitting on an objective with 2 crypto thralls hidden out of sight. They don’t attract a lot of attention until the mortal wounds start to pile up.

Did you really suggest the new Destroyers not making it into combat at full strength isn't a bad thing?

If it means getting my Skorpekh Lord into combat full strength.

Then...why not any other unit for that job?

Well, I don't see the new Overlord as a must-have unit as I don't like lumbering HQs. The tachyon arrow is nice but can only be shot once per battle.
Royal warden is infantry but only one model per unit? Its weapon is nice, but we have to see how pricey it will get.
New warriors maybe.
New destroyers are a hard-hitting counter-strike unit or a unit that can clear an objective although its quite slow.
It can be buffed by the new destroyer lord.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I don't see the new Overlord as a must-have unit as I don't like lumbering HQs. The tachyon arrow is nice but can only be shot once per battle.

Yes, using MWBD twice on two DDAs really sucks

So at the end of the day, what units would you include from the Indomitus box in competitive play.
The warriors but otherwise?

 vipoid wrote:
Skorpekh Lord looks pretty good. It's a minor thing, but I like that he actually gets a proper ranged weapon in addition to good melee weapons. Something our other HQs can't seem to wrap their heads around. -.-

Regarding the Plasmancer, I quite like the model design, albeit with a single exception. Because someone on the design team - you know who you are - decided that he needed a stupidly long chin. And yes, I know this has been a feature of previous Crypteks, and it looks equally crap on them, too. Worse still, I think the Plasmancer's is even longer than the absurd chin of the regular Crypteks.

They're recreating the false beard that Egyptian nobility wore.

Alcibiades wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Skorpekh Lord looks pretty good. It's a minor thing, but I like that he actually gets a proper ranged weapon in addition to good melee weapons. Something our other HQs can't seem to wrap their heads around. -.-

Regarding the Plasmancer, I quite like the model design, albeit with a single exception. Because someone on the design team - you know who you are - decided that he needed a stupidly long chin. And yes, I know this has been a feature of previous Crypteks, and it looks equally crap on them, too. Worse still, I think the Plasmancer's is even longer than the absurd chin of the regular Crypteks.

They're recreating the false beard that Egyptian nobility wore.

Would it help if I said that I hate the Egyptian aesthetic?

It's something I've badly wanted Necrons to move away from every since some pratbasket brought it back in 5th.

 vipoid wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Skorpekh Lord looks pretty good. It's a minor thing, but I like that he actually gets a proper ranged weapon in addition to good melee weapons. Something our other HQs can't seem to wrap their heads around. -.-

Regarding the Plasmancer, I quite like the model design, albeit with a single exception. Because someone on the design team - you know who you are - decided that he needed a stupidly long chin. And yes, I know this has been a feature of previous Crypteks, and it looks equally crap on them, too. Worse still, I think the Plasmancer's is even longer than the absurd chin of the regular Crypteks.

They're recreating the false beard that Egyptian nobility wore.

Would it help if I said that I hate the Egyptian aesthetic?

It's something I've badly wanted Necrons to move away from every since some pratbasket brought it back in 5th.

Yeah, they went too heavy on the Egyptian aesthetic. They bought too heavily in that stupid meme that necrons are tomb kings in space, when they were more death in space in 3rd ed; the Egyptian element is really just from the mortuary cult, they also took themes from Gothic horror and Aztec sacrifice rituals, and the nightbringer is clearly based on the Grim Reaper, which is a Medieval European personification of death.

If you hate the chins you aren't going to like the new Chronomancer.
I'll repost from the tactics thread.


Flayed Ones


Ophydian Destroyers



Chronomancer



Psychomancer

 vipoid wrote:

Would it help if I said that I hate the Egyptian aesthetic?

It's something I've badly wanted Necrons to move away from every since some pratbasket brought it back in 5th.

Hehe. +1. I prefer the Cron models with less of that stuff. Old Destroyers, the plastic Wraiths, etc.

Especially since Thousand Sons are also borrowing from the Egyptian aesthetic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@CthuluSpy: Oh cool, I haven't seen those yet. Hooray for new Flayed Ones.

Nice that we're getting different types of crypteks back but again, its impossible to know how any of these new units work without knowing how Reanimation Protocals work and its getting really frustrating.

Just curious, why there is no Plasmacyte rule on the Ophydian Destroyer's data sheet.

armisael wrote:
Just curious, why there is no Plasmacyte rule on the Ophydian Destroyer's data sheet.

Because we already know what the Plasmacyte does, so there was no need to add it to the preview datasheet.

I'm pretty shocked that we are getting so much more at this point! Really makes me think we are getting an update for the old destroyers now more than ever.

We are spoiled for choice now, that's for sure. We really need some kind of Royal court now with all the Cryptek types!

Good lord, that Chronomancer's chin looks like the proboscis of a mosquito.


Anyway, atrocious Egyptian aesthetics notwithstanding, those new models look pretty nice. Psychomancer's rules are looking to be garbage, but I suppose you can't have everything.

I do like that old Wraiths seem to be making a comeback, but I have to say I'm really not a fan of these multi-armed Necrons. It might make sense in principle, but all the ones I've seen thus far just end up looking awkward. Also, why does it appear to be covered in egg-sacs? Has it just mated?


Minor aesthetic quibbles aside, it does seem like Necrons are getting a significant expansion to their range. However, as someone who also plays Dark Eldar, I can't help but turn green with envy (and I say this even as a Necron player). After all, my Necrons already got to keep all of their 5th edition HQs, and are now receiving a whole torrent of new ones. Meanwhile, DE had most of their HQ section stripped away and since then have had nothing but remakes. From that perspective, I can't help but lament that my Necrons are becoming increasingly overwhelmed for HQ choices, while my DE are still stuck with just 3 generic HQs in their entire faction.

 vipoid wrote:
Good lord, that Chronomancer's chin looks like the proboscis of a mosquito.


Anyway, atrocious Egyptian aesthetics notwithstanding, those new models look pretty nice. Psychomancer's rules are looking to be garbage, but I suppose you can't have everything.

I do like that old Wraiths seem to be making a comeback, but I have to say I'm really not a fan of these multi-armed Necrons. It might make sense in principle, but all the ones I've seen thus far just end up looking awkward. Also, why does it appear to be covered in egg-sacs? Has it just mated?


Minor aesthetic quibbles aside, it does seem like Necrons are getting a significant expansion to their range. However, as someone who also plays Dark Eldar, I can't help but turn green with envy (and I say this even as a Necron player). After all, my Necrons already got to keep all of their 5th edition HQs, and are now receiving a whole torrent of new ones. Meanwhile, DE had most of their HQ section stripped away and since then have had nothing but remakes. From that perspective, I can't help but lament that my Necrons are becoming increasingly overwhelmed for HQ choices, while my DE are still stuck with just 3 generic HQs in their entire faction.

It's ok my sisters are stuck with just 2 generic hqs, one of which is a 0-1.

I honestly find the ongoing model inflation for Necrons a bit silly from the lore perspective.

Did they really have a bajillion vastly different and slightly different robot bodies crafted before their collective transformation? Were there catalogues where you could pick the exact individualized unit type you wanted to become?

 Esmer wrote:
I honestly find the ongoing model inflation for Necrons a bit silly from the lore perspective.

Did they really have a bajillion vastly different and slightly different robot bodies crafted before their collective transformation? Were there catalogues where you could pick the exact individualized unit type you wanted to become?

Well after transference they did go on to wage Galactic war. They then went on to wage war on the very gods themselves. So they had a LOT of time to adapt and evolve. Many of the curses they have are old - Destroyers and Flayed ones were around far back then; perhaps fewer, but around. So yes they had time for catalogues of evolved designs.

Plus as they are awakening don't forget they don't have any religious reason not to change and adapt their sciences; nor are they limited by the boundaries of genetics and creature design. So for a destroyer they really can change things up if they want.

 vipoid wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How do you feel whether the shiny new units will contribute to the competitiveness of Necrons?

The new overlord is auto include IMO.
1 time use weapon is a monster - the move bonus and MWBD on any unit. Plus a better melee weapon.

I think it's stretching things to consider the Overlord a 'new unit', given that he's been in the game for 5 editions now.

The new rules do seem like an improvement, but I have to disagree about his one-use-only weapon being a monster. If anything, it seems like you're just asking to roll a 1 to hit or to wound (or to have it bounce off an invulnerable save).

Frankly, it looks like the exact sort of weapon that people are already avoiding due to how unreliable they are - and that's when they can expect to fire them more than once per game.

I know it's not what you'd take an Overlord for, but I'd still much rather have a weaker weapon that you can fire every turn, rather than putting all his eggs into a single shot.

Yep gun looks pretty but you have 30% chance to fail vs non inv t6 or less. Add in inv save(most of worthwhile targets) or t7 or more and your gun fails　it's only shot. And d6 damage can fail it.

So far it has worked only once and that had 28% chance to work.

 Esmer wrote:
I honestly find the ongoing model inflation for Necrons a bit silly from the lore perspective.

Did they really have a bajillion vastly different and slightly different robot bodies crafted before their collective transformation? Were there catalogues where you could pick the exact individualized unit type you wanted to become?

It makes more sense than them being all humanoid. If you aren't constrained by biology why would you not modify your form to be more efficient at what you need it to do?

tneva82 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How do you feel whether the shiny new units will contribute to the competitiveness of Necrons?

The new overlord is auto include IMO.
1 time use weapon is a monster - the move bonus and MWBD on any unit. Plus a better melee weapon.

I think it's stretching things to consider the Overlord a 'new unit', given that he's been in the game for 5 editions now.

The new rules do seem like an improvement, but I have to disagree about his one-use-only weapon being a monster. If anything, it seems like you're just asking to roll a 1 to hit or to wound (or to have it bounce off an invulnerable save).

Frankly, it looks like the exact sort of weapon that people are already avoiding due to how unreliable they are - and that's when they can expect to fire them more than once per game.

I know it's not what you'd take an Overlord for, but I'd still much rather have a weaker weapon that you can fire every turn, rather than putting all his eggs into a single shot.

Yep gun looks pretty but you have 30% chance to fail vs non inv t6 or less. Add in inv save(most of worthwhile targets) or t7 or more and your gun fails　it's only shot. And d6 damage can fail it.

So far it has worked only once and that had 28% chance to work.

Compared to the typical bolt/splinter pistol weapons most heros have for range - I consider it really good. It's also got good range too which is a bonus. If you have a 12" gun you MIGHT shoot it more than once but maybe not.

 Esmer wrote:
I honestly find the ongoing model inflation for Necrons a bit silly from the lore perspective.

Did they really have a bajillion vastly different and slightly different robot bodies crafted before their collective transformation? Were there catalogues where you could pick the exact individualized unit type you wanted to become?

Can't agree, not even vaguely. Think of human diversity in design and function for... anything. Now imagine what the diversity is for a species tens of millions of years old, with access to absurd super sciences and nothing but time (even for the relatively small percentage of those awake for much of that time), and when they were active, the needs of an ever-changing galaxy-encompassing war where the enemy is force-evolving and throwing entirely new species at them. Many of which are capable of manipulating levels of reality the necrons can't perceive or comprehend even with all of their super-science.

This should be just scratching the surface of the variety of war forms the necrons have (subject to the whats practical for a company to produce for a war game).

It is my understanding that Necrons undertook the transference process as a one-time-only thing at a specific point in history and got transferred into their current bodies directly from their biological forms. That's how I remember it from a couple of editions ago - haven't followed the Necron lore too closely since then.

If there is lore stating that they kept modifying themselves up to and including switching bodies for newer fancier models, I stand corrected.

 Esmer wrote:
I honestly find the ongoing model inflation for Necrons a bit silly from the lore perspective.

Did they really have a bajillion vastly different and slightly different robot bodies crafted before their collective transformation? Were there catalogues where you could pick the exact individualized unit type you wanted to become?

To be fair, there are trillions upon trillions of Necrons, and more variation (destroyers, flayed ones) arose post-biotransference.


It's more annoying to me that there is so much overlap in the units/rules. Four types of Cryptek (plus two characters); wraiths, skorpekh, (acanthrites), and now ophydians too...

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Esmer wrote:
I honestly find the ongoing model inflation for Necrons a bit silly from the lore perspective.

Did they really have a bajillion vastly different and slightly different robot bodies crafted before their collective transformation? Were there catalogues where you could pick the exact individualized unit type you wanted to become?

To be fair, there are trillions upon trillions of Necrons, and more variation (destroyers, flayed ones) arose post-biotransference.


It's more annoying to me that there is so much overlap in the units/rules. Four types of Cryptek (plus two characters); wraiths, skorpekh, (acanthrites), and now ophydians too...

When models sell most of their lifetime sales in first few months unless gw introduces new models they won't sell much models. And making new datasheets rather than redoing old ones works better