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 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

HB kills 3 W1 models - 3 dice - 1 in pool - 1 gets up.
HB kills 3 W2 models - 6 dice - 2 in pool - 1 gets up.

Lasguns kill 6 W1 models - 6 dice - 2 in pool - 2 get up
Lasguns kill 3 W2 models - 6 dice - 2 in pool - 1 gets up

When you have a pool that is not divisible by the wounds --

Lasguns kill 4 W1 models - 4 dice - 1.33 in pool - 1 or 2 get up
Lasguns kill 2 W2 models - 2 dice - 1.33 in pool - 0 to 1 get up

Seems relatively level for those wounds. Based on the way they worded this I do expect to see ways for more dice to enter the pool.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
HB kills 3 W1 models - 3 dice - 1 in pool - 1 gets up.
HB kills 3 W2 models - 6 dice - 2 in pool - 1 gets up.

Lasguns kill 6 W1 models - 6 dice - 2 in pool - 2 get up
Lasguns kill 3 W2 models - 6 dice - 2 in pool - 1 gets up

When you have a pool that is not divisible by the wounds --

Lasguns kill 4 W1 models - 4 dice - 1.33 in pool - 1 or 2 get up
Lasguns kill 2 W2 models - 2 dice - 1.33 in pool - 0 to 1 get up

Seems relatively level for those wounds. Based on the way they worded this I do expect to see ways for more dice to enter the pool.

This is my assumption. There will be ways to modify the number of dice or successes to your RP rolls. It's just Games workshop not previewing things in a logical manner. Once it's all out, we can judge it to our hearts content, and there will be no more waiting for more info.

When you have a pool that is not divisible by the wounds --

Lasguns kill 4 W1 models - 4 dice - 1.33 in pool - 1 or 2 get up
Lasguns kill 2 W2 models - 2 dice - 1.33 in pool - 0 to 1 get up

Eh? If 2 W2 models are killed, you've got 4 dice.

There is no point where you have a wounds/dice mismatch. The only point you can have a mismatch is the # of 5+ rolls.

It is basically FNP with threshholds. The threshold is the max wounds characteristic of the models in the unit. Must meet the threshold or successful results are wasted.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

C'tan seem nice now at least.
Necrodermis has the same damage gating mechanic that Ghaz has, so C'tan can actually shrug off some damage, and the Void Dragon seems to be a decent Anti-Tank option.
So we have an anti-infantry C'tan (Nightbringer)
A general use C'tan (Transcendent)
A support C'tan (Deceiver)
And now an anti-tank C'tan.

Just look at warriors. Next to a Ghost arch and a cyrptec.

If it works like it used to for the ghost arch. Assuming you don't even get a save. You have a 4+ rr1's twice. Which is pretty silly. With the 5++ save from the cryptec...

you have a 5++/ 4+ rr1's / 4+ rr's....

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

Reanimation Protocols on their own are nice and we've no idea what synergies and other options there are in the Codex.

They certainly, without buffs, favour warriors and other 1 wound models over multiwound models; which makes sense. Even in the lore its the warriors who are endless legion.

Buffs and other elements might well let you scale up to improve results for multiwound models as well.


We'll have to wait and see on that latter one.

So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

If you don't want them to have a chance at RP, you do.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

Voss wrote:

So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

If you don't want them to have a chance at RP, you do.

Ahh I remember this in 3rd edition - get it right or suffer badly.

Of course then the entire army could phase out!

Except its not a nerf to multi-wound models its a nuke from orbit. Could they not have just given our multi-wound models a FNP.... it sucks because this rule is almost never going to go off and yet you know they are going to overprice every multi-wound model because of it.

Asmodios wrote:

Spoiler:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

Except its not a nerf to multi-wound models its a nuke from orbit. Could they not have just given our multi-wound models a FNP.... it sucks because this rule is almost never going to go off and yet you know they are going to overprice every multi-wound model because of it.

Well it's GW - they don't need a reason to under or over cost things. It is a buff overall to an ability that was almost useless. It is REALLY good on 1 w models. 2 wound models it's for sure better than a 6+ FNP provided it's a big unit and hard to wipe.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

Spoiler:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

Except its not a nerf to multi-wound models its a nuke from orbit. Could they not have just given our multi-wound models a FNP.... it sucks because this rule is almost never going to go off and yet you know they are going to overprice every multi-wound model because of it.

Well it's GW - they don't need a reason to under or over cost things. It is a buff overall to an ability that was almost useless. It is REALLY good on 1 w models. 2 wound models it's for sure better than a 6+ FNP provided it's a big unit and hard to wipe.

Its really not better though as long as the enemy is targeting it with units that will kill 1-2 at most, so the ability almost never triggers. Once the unit is at a manageable level just shoot it with something mean remove them all and they don't get a chance to reanimate. FNP always gets a chance to work, there is still the "wipe all the model" way around RP. Its is going to be worse then FNP 99% of the time for multi-wound models

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

It's different. The way to deal with DG is to overkill individual models - force 2 or 3 FNP rolls per model by using D2 / D3 weapons and you're safely getting rid of them. Can't do that vs Necrons. I mean come on, what do you expect? It's obviously going to be "kinda like FnP" whatever you do. Not sure what you'd expect to make this so different , or what making RP "persistent" would mean - unless you mean going back to 7th edition which was simply a "persistent" FnP.

Been running some numbers on this for multi wound units... now, apologies in advance, I couldn't be bothered to run the maths, so I've done 120k random rolls and based percentages off that.

Lets pick a 3 wound model unit, and model RP rolls after losing 1, 2 or 3 models. Assuming we have an RP of 5+, our chances of returning models are as follows (and note these are for returning only that many, not at least that many):

1 model
0 models returned: 96.66% (ouch), 1 model returned: 3.34%

2 models
0 models returned: 67.68%, 1 model returned: 32.04%, 2 models returned: 0.10%

3 models
0 models returned: 37.87%, 1 model returned: 58.47%, 2 models returned: 3.65%, 3 models returned: 0.01%.

I can rerun these numbers with RPs of 4 and I suspect that makes a BIG difference. What I'm more interested in is the impact of rolling additional dice; let's hypothisise that a Resurrection Orb gives you 2 additional dice for RP and rerun the exact scenario above:

1 model
0 models returned: 79%, 1 model returned: 21.00%

2 models
0 models returned: 48.21%, 1 model returned: 50.79%, 2 models returned: 1.80%

3 models
0 models returned: 24.30%, 1 model returned: 64.40%, 2 models returned: 11.15%, 3 models returned: 0.15%.

Happy to run some other scenarios, but broadly rolling additional dice (even only 2) gives you a very decent boost in survivability, especially at lower counts/higher wounds.

The main difference he's pointing out is that RP still has the "kill them all and it doesn't work" special rule where FNP doesn't. That means once you get a unit to a manageable amount for a unit to one-shot you get to ignore the rule completely. Imagine if FNP only activated if there weren't enough wounds to kill the whole unit

Asmodios wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

Spoiler:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

Except its not a nerf to multi-wound models its a nuke from orbit. Could they not have just given our multi-wound models a FNP.... it sucks because this rule is almost never going to go off and yet you know they are going to overprice every multi-wound model because of it.

Well it's GW - they don't need a reason to under or over cost things. It is a buff overall to an ability that was almost useless. It is REALLY good on 1 w models. 2 wound models it's for sure better than a 6+ FNP provided it's a big unit and hard to wipe.

Its really not better though as long as the enemy is targeting it with units that will kill 1-2 at most, so the ability almost never triggers. Once the unit is at a manageable level just shoot it with something mean remove them all and they don't get a chance to reanimate. FNP always gets a chance to work, there is still the "wipe all the model" way around RP. Its is going to be worse then FNP 99% of the time for multi-wound models

You are right about RP on multi wound. It's worse than 5+ FNP. For 1 wound models the principle reason it is better than 5+ FNP - overkill is wasted. It's draw back is if the unit is wiped you don't get it.

Asmodios wrote:

Spoiler:

nekooni wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

It's different. The way to deal with DG is to overkill individual models - force 2 or 3 FNP rolls per model by using D2 / D3 weapons and you're safely getting rid of them. Can't do that vs Necrons. I mean come on, what do you expect? It's obviously going to be "kinda like FnP" whatever you do. Not sure what you'd expect to make this so different , or what making RP "persistent" would mean - unless you mean going back to 7th edition which was simply a "persistent" FnP.

The main difference he's pointing out is that RP still has the "kill them all and it doesn't work" special rule where FNP doesn't. That means once you get a unit to a manageable amount for a unit to one-shot you get to ignore the rule completely. Imagine if FNP only activated if there weren't enough wounds to kill the whole unit

I don't see how that was their point at all, to be honest. Their point was that "That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard."

 Xenomancers wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

Spoiler:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.

^this. You don't get to roll a second time for all your dead 'crons each time your opponent lobs a storm bolter at you.

So its basically FNP. Lame.
So much for "you have to destroy the unit in a single attack" then.

Except...you do?

If you have a unit of 20 Warriors and 19 get slain, then Reanimation Protocols are done. You can potentially get all 19 Warriors back...which makes it so they no longer count as destroyed for Morale purposes and just are Back(tm).

We don't know yet if there's a way to return destroyed models to the unit, but it's extremely likely.

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

Except its not a nerf to multi-wound models its a nuke from orbit. Could they not have just given our multi-wound models a FNP.... it sucks because this rule is almost never going to go off and yet you know they are going to overprice every multi-wound model because of it.

Well it's GW - they don't need a reason to under or over cost things. It is a buff overall to an ability that was almost useless. It is REALLY good on 1 w models. 2 wound models it's for sure better than a 6+ FNP provided it's a big unit and hard to wipe.

Its really not better though as long as the enemy is targeting it with units that will kill 1-2 at most, so the ability almost never triggers. Once the unit is at a manageable level just shoot it with something mean remove them all and they don't get a chance to reanimate. FNP always gets a chance to work, there is still the "wipe all the model" way around RP. Its is going to be worse then FNP 99% of the time for multi-wound models

You are right about RP on multi wound. It's worse than 5+ FNP. For 1 wound models the principle reason it is better than 5+ FNP - overkill is wasted. It's draw back is if the unit is wiped you don't get it.

So on 1 wound models, it comes out be about equal. You are more resilient to multi-wound shots but there is a chance you don't even get your special rule. So we have an army-wide special rule that is about equal on are single wound infantry as FNP and far worse on out multi-wound models then FNP. Sorry but at this point, I would rather we just have a FNP

Overly verbose and worded terribly, but overall that's a big improvement over the current rules. It is a slightly worse FNP vs lots of cases, although much better on single wound models vs multi damage weapons. All I wanted was an improvement over 8th's rules and that's what this is. Plus we still don't know what Rites of Reanimation, Ghost Ark, and Res Orbs do and if/how the Reanimator has changed so it could very easily be a better FNP once all things are taken into consideration.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

You fail most of those rolls because its a 5+, they lose more in the next attack, and they get wiped out in the third attack with no effort (if it gets to that point, they'll probably die in the next attack). That's not a single attack, that's two-three attacks. Its really no different from Death Guard.
Having reanimation be persistent would make it closer to the single attack claim and still have that feel that's unique to necrons. 7th ed was lame not because it wasn't effective (it was) but because it made necrons like every other faction that had FNP.

Maybe there will be something that return fallen models to a unit, but right now I'm not liking the perceived feel of it.

That said I don't mind the nerf to multi-wound models. It was pretty ridiculous how all it took was a single successful roll and you got a three wound model back. I can understand the change there at least.

Edit - My bad, RP still doesn't activate if the entire unit is wiped out, so this is all lies! Still, leaving the rest of the post because I think the point is valid - an emphasis on lower-level infantry being more durable and staying on objectives longer.

Hard to tell without the full codex and how they're going to rework things like the Ghost Ark (if at all), but the new Warriors get to re-roll 1s, the new Reanimator adds 1, the old Ghost Ark and Resurrection Orb let you re-roll your fails...

The 8th ed one, at the tournament level, was essentially a delayed FNP that would likely never activate. For your Warriors, with a Reanimator or equivalent standing nearby, you have a guaranteed 4+++, re-rolling 1s. So if you lose 20 Warriors in a go, you're getting 13-14 back. With Death Guard FNP, you can apply enough firepower to make it statistically unlikely for a model to survive; since ours takes place after the attacks, you can't "overkill" our units to get a near-guaranteed kill. Even without any buffing units, half of all Warrior casualties are going to stand back up.

Effectively, this changes a Warrior blob from being a pool of 20 T4 4+ wounds you have to chew through in a turn, to a pool of 20+10+5+2(ish)+1 unbuffed wounds you have to chew through to wipe a unit off an objective. Add in a Reanimator (or equivalent, I know the early impressions were that a wet paper bag offered more resistance, but we'll likely get similar rules from other sources), and suddenly you have a pool of (optimistically rounded) 20+14+10+6+4+3+2+1 wounds, with each of those attacks coming either from a different unit, or in a different round. Effectively, we're doubling/tripling the wounds for our basic infantry, regardless of how much firepower gets turned on them.

In the smaller games I've played with my friends, they're pretty bad at actually finishing a unit of Warriors off, so the multi-round persistence of RP definitely worked in my favor - but I think this variant will work better at more competitive levels. Since this edition is all about board control, having greater soak will work in our favor, since units will have to be out in the open getting shot at to generate any points.

We have no idea what army-wide FNP saves are going to look like at at this point. I've read that GW are wanting to cut down on these types of roll as they slow the game down, and I've even heard rumours that DR is going down to a -1 to wound.

As my post above proves, RP is better against the exact tactic you take to counter it, throwing lots of shots at a unit and taking more of them down, and it's better on the exact units that score points this edition: Warriors and Immortals.

Regardless, also I think there is a big element of missing the picture here: RP as it stood in 8th was unreliable, meaning you could see a big swing between returning 100s of points of models and doing almost nothing. It has to be priced for the former situation happening so that Necrons aren't ludicrously overpowered i a percentage of their games (and, let's face it, no fun to play against). An RP which is less *potentially* potent and more consistent on our more expensive models allows a far more competitive pricing to be established, and the proposed solution even works far better on big blobs of troops.

People saying the ability is worthless on multiwound models are also exposing their balls and inability to understand how 40k works.

It doesn't matter if old-RP meant a Destroyer could get back up on one 5+ if you were never making that dice roll in the first place. Actively getting chances to resurrect models after attacks still increases the survivability of units to a really high degree because every saved ones leads to more models subsequent units have to chew through which also leads to more RP rolls.

Is it as strong as a traditional FNP? Of course not, but to call it worse than the 8th edition rule is pure comedy.

There's very little reason to make the rule this complex without adding ways to toy with it (IE, add more dice to the pool). The baseline is already way better than 8th and it can only get better from here.

If necrons are killed in the psychic phase by mortal wounds, or by any other rule which doesnt involve shooting or fighting, no reanimation. If necrons are killed by an explosion of a vehicle, no reanimation. If necrons are killed by a weapon which does mortal wounds (in addition) they can reanimate This is a huge nerf

 p5freak wrote:
If necrons are killed in the psychic phase by mortal wounds, or by any other rule which doesnt involve shooting or fighting, no reanimation. If necrons are killed by an explosion of a vehicle, no reanimation. If necrons are killed by a weapon which does mortal wounds (in addition) they can reanimate This is a huge nerf

They weren't getting RP in any of those situations before either, is the thing.

While I think the new rule is very weak to the point of non-existent for multi-wound models, people are forgetting RP almost never mattered in 8th since it was likely to never go off since wiping units in a phase/turn was and is not hard. Now there is a least a chance, especially for one wound models, to get good milage out of RP.

Plus I'm betting there are still unseen re-rolls and potential extra dice rules we haven't seen yet.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
If necrons are killed in the psychic phase by mortal wounds, or by any other rule which doesnt involve shooting or fighting, no reanimation. If necrons are killed by an explosion of a vehicle, no reanimation. If necrons are killed by a weapon which does mortal wounds (in addition) they can reanimate This is a huge nerf

They weren't getting RP in any of those situations before either, is the thing.

Yes, they did. You rolled for RP whenever a model was slain. You didnt roll when a model ran away because of morale.

Reanimation Protocols: Roll a D6 for each slain model from this unit (unless the whole unit has been completely destroyed) at the beginning of your turn. Do not roll for models that have fled the unit......