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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For me, my core choices are always going to be Warriors and Immortals.

With Immortals going back to T5, they’re getting a decent whack of extra resilience against most small arms fire, such as Bolters and other S4 goodies, and to a lesser degree against S5.

Add in RP, and their 3+ save, and they become more difficult to get off the board.

We’ll also need to consider our own damage output in a turn, and that will of course fluctuate from army to army, based on what the player has included.

Let’s look at the Monolith, and arm it with Death Rays.



That.....that’s a lot of damage potential. Decent strength, fair number of shots, solid AP and, crucially, reliable Damage. With a fair wind and only slightly jammy dice, there’s not a great many vehicles that can soak enough to stay on the board.

And reliable Damage on our heavy weapons does kind of look to be the norm, when we look at the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer.

In an edition where they've shown shown some progress towards evening out the wild random swingy weapons (with things like 3D3, D3+3 etc.) I'm disappointed they decided to revert the particle whip from Heavy 6 back to Heavy D6.
Yes - it's blast but it feels like a S12 D3 weapon should have better targets than massed infantry.

I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot

Asmodios wrote:
I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot

Quasi-fluff I'd guess. And wanting to have a different mechanic to just having a 5+++.

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

In an edition where they've shown shown some progress towards evening out the wild random swingy weapons (with things like 3D3, D3+3 etc.) I'm disappointed they decided to revert the particle whip from Heavy 6 back to Heavy D6.
Yes - it's blast but it feels like a S12 D3 weapon should have better targets than massed infantry.

That fact that its heavy d6 and blast helps make it worse. Blast isn't a 'cool new thing,' its a nerf button. Especially on AT weapons.
A) it can be turned off (by running someone into combat)
B) being heavy d6 means its not very good against its primary targets



@Asmodios- GW apparently doesn't want markers on the field, which would be required to have some point to RP back to if a unit is wiped out.
Its also clear that they think of RP as a minor bonus, not a signature ability that gives major benefits. They're being cautious about the line between getting models back and the points value of having 'extra' models. Not sure they drew the line in the right place for multi-wound models, but that's the 'why.'

Tyel wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot

Quasi-fluff I'd guess. And wanting to have a different mechanic to just having a 5+++.

It still would have been different and fluffy without having an easy off switch for no apparent reason. I even could have seen them leaving this get around in the game if we could stack more then +1 onto RP. But instead, they left this in which just makes it a really lame version of FNP that can be easily turned off and discourages MSU even more in an edition where like 200 weapons just got better at killing hordes

Asmodios wrote:
I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot

I mean, I can shoot a plague marine with a plasma gun and make its odds of surviving drop from 33% to near nil, which is not a thing I can do with a necron warrior.

Voss wrote:

@Asmodios- GW apparently doesn't want markers on the field, which would be required to have some point to RP back to if a unit is wiped out.
Its also clear that they think of RP as a minor bonus, not a signature ability that gives major benefits. They're being cautious about the line between getting models back and the points value of having 'extra' models. Not sure they drew the line in the right place for multi-wound models, but that's the 'why.'

I think we started to see this steadily in how they changed the Synapse for tyranids a while back. There was a time that taking out synapse was very damaging to Tyrainds. You basically lost all control and gaunts would more as not flee. Which whilst it fit the idea that taking out synapse was good, it also made it such a powerful element that it shut down some list building options and Tyranid players would load up on a lot of synapse anyway. Now its more of a bonus that they lose rather than a cornerstone of the army taken out.

RP might well be the same; something that once defined the army, now being made weaker to be one of many features.


It likely plays into them giving Necrons a lot more models and diversity and thus more potential build options and ways to take the army. So some old tricks weaken a bit because now its no longer the crutch the whole army works on






I figure we will see the same pattern for many AoS armies which right now might have less than half a dozen different models outside of leaders. Seeing them have powerful combos and troops that will get weaker/change over time as they add more and more diversity and options into the range.

Voss wrote:

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

In an edition where they've shown shown some progress towards evening out the wild random swingy weapons (with things like 3D3, D3+3 etc.) I'm disappointed they decided to revert the particle whip from Heavy 6 back to Heavy D6.
Yes - it's blast but it feels like a S12 D3 weapon should have better targets than massed infantry.

That fact that its heavy d6 and blast helps make it worse. Blast isn't a 'cool new thing,' its a nerf button. Especially on AT weapons.
A) it can be turned off (by running someone into combat)
B) being heavy d6 means its not very good against its primary targets



@Asmodios- GW apparently doesn't want markers on the field, which would be required to have some point to RP back to if a unit is wiped out.
Its also clear that they think of RP as a minor bonus, not a signature ability that gives major benefits. They're being cautious about the line between getting models back and the points value of having 'extra' models. Not sure they drew the line in the right place for multi-wound models, but that's the 'why.'

You wouldn't need any markers on the board just let the units that fail their saves to roll a RP before being removed even if they are all "killed" just like a FNP. Why does this ability magically turn off if there are enough wounds caused to kill the unit? Once again we allow FNP even if 3 wounds are caused to the last 3 models in a DG unit why not allow necrons an equally potent ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot

I mean, I can shoot a plague marine with a plasma gun and make its odds of surviving drop from 33% to near nil, which is not a thing I can do with a necron warrior.

this doesn't change the fact that you still get to use your rule. The fact that you can so easily make it so that necrons don't get to use RP is BS.

RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.

Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
I'm hoping that "Living Metal" will allow multi-wound Necrons to always be considered "Reanimating" so that even after it fails on RP roll it can still roll next attack too.

Unlikely if we're using the Edge of Silence datasheets for guidance, as there are models with Living Metal and not Reanimation Protocols (e.g., the Overlord).

 Overread wrote:
RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.

Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.

That makes no sense from a gameplay or fluff perspective. Just imagine a 10 man warrior unit gets shot “our lord over there needs are help we better try to stand back up and save him.... ahh crap they knocked down all 10 of us instead of just 9 of us better not even try to stand back up” once again no different then a pox walker unit saying “it’s a shame they did 10 wounds of damage to us if they only had done 9 we could have attempted our FNP”

How many attacks is the Monolith?

It's currently three, if Battlescribe doesn't fail me, which actually makes it kinda scary in melee. AP-3, D3, and autohits... Well, it certainly ain't that scary for the PRICE, but it's a damn sight meaner than just about any other tank.

Asmodios wrote:

 Overread wrote:
RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.

Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.

That makes no sense from a gameplay or fluff perspective. Just imagine a 10 man warrior unit gets shot “our lord over there needs are help we better try to stand back up and save him.... ahh crap they knocked down all 10 of us instead of just 9 of us better not even try to stand back up” once again no different then a pox walker unit saying “it’s a shame they did 10 wounds of damage to us if they only had done 9 we could have attempted our FNP”

I mean aside from the fact that necrons teleport away when they suffer heavy damage and always have.

Odds are the large warrior blobs will actually be a negative with the number of weapons with the blast profile. Yes more warriors more RP rolls, but these 'blobs' will be taking more wounds to begin with. Larger footprint on the board ect.

Not sure the Warrior blob meta is back.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/29/silent-king-the-rules-of-the-ruler/

There is only One 'Return', and it is of the King

Looks like the command protocols have leaked:

Restrictions
- Entire army myst be from same Dynasty (Exclude C'tan, agents, unaligned)
- Must have Necron <NOBLE> as warlord
- Must be a Necron <NOBLE> on the battlefield that turn
- Unit must be within 6" of non-C'tan <CHARACTER> (so... C'tan are still characters)

Choose order of Command Protocols
- This is done AFTER deplyment but BEFORE roll for 1st turn
- Can note down secretly on army rost
- Can lay datacards down in order
- Each turn select one of the two directives (named dynasties have both of 1)

If game goed on longer than 5 turns, the last one continues in effect


Eternal Guardian:
- If didn't move, fall back or advance this BR, gain light cover.
- Can holt steady or set to defend as if in heavy cover

Sudden Storm
+1" movement
- Can do actions and still shoot

Vengeful Stars
- Ranged wound roll of 6 = AP better by 1
- Ranger attacks <half range = ignore cover

Hungry Void
- Melee wound roll of 6 = AP better by 1
- +1S if charged, was charged or made heroic int.

Undying Legions
- Living metal = gain 2 wounds instead of 1
- Re-Roll one die each time the unit makes RP

Concuering Tyrant
- +3" to auras and " Rites of reanimation", Lords will and My will be done
- Fall back and shoot but will be =1 to hit

 BroodSpawn wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/29/silent-king-the-rules-of-the-ruler/

There is only One 'Return', and it is of the King

Well, at least we can say those are rules worthy of the King.

FYI, the Silent Kings "Voice of the Triarch" ability makes it clear that you have to have a different protocol active each round.

 Sim-Life wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

 Overread wrote:
RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.

Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.

That makes no sense from a gameplay or fluff perspective. Just imagine a 10 man warrior unit gets shot “our lord over there needs are help we better try to stand back up and save him.... ahh crap they knocked down all 10 of us instead of just 9 of us better not even try to stand back up” once again no different then a pox walker unit saying “it’s a shame they did 10 wounds of damage to us if they only had done 9 we could have attempted our FNP”

I mean aside from the fact that necrons teleport away when they suffer heavy damage and always have.

Yeah but they haven’t taken damage any more heavily then normal they just never attempt to re animate. Imagine having 1 necron left and he fails a wound to a las gun. He now doesn’t even try to stand up despite it only being a las gun

 buddha wrote:

 BroodSpawn wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/29/silent-king-the-rules-of-the-ruler/

There is only One 'Return', and it is of the King

Well, at least we can say those are rules worthy of the King.

It is rather a hodge-podge of disconnected abilities.
Most of it fits, I guess, but 'generalist commander' doesn't sit right in my head, and he doesn't share enough space with what Overlords usually do.

His abilities are also mostly not _him_. Its his balcony or his pillars, or his rocks or his secretaries.
_His_ only ability is 'voice of the triarchs' which is odd for a guy called the 'silent king.'

You could farm all these functions out to other characters, scenery or vehicles.

So the article noted that the silent King still has more rules that they havent shown. I imiagine its more of his defensive abilities and such, I also imagine the triarch can shoot/fight as well.

Ironically the Hexmark Destroyer is a non-Ctan character so it might be useful for getting protocols towards the front of the army or in the backfield

Those aren't *all* of his rules, mind you. Just the ones that they decided to highlight.

One thing to keep in mind that this is not the full preview for the SK, he still has more abilities.

Also, picking the Protocols before turn order is decided is really stupid.

 Sasori wrote:
One thing to keep in mind that this is not the full preview for the SK, he still has more abilities.

Also, picking the Protocols before turn order is decided is really stupid.

Agreed, but if you pick one that'll help regardless, like the +1" movement then it'll still be useful.

I'm trying to figure out what would be the optimum order to go in. Perhaps start with movement, got to shooting, then a close ranged one, then combat? Oh no it's just like combat doctrines

 Sasori wrote:
One thing to keep in mind that this is not the full preview for the SK, he still has more abilities.

Also, picking the Protocols before turn order is decided is really stupid.

Oof that's rough, hopefully there's a strat or warlord trait that can help with manipulating the protocols but that's not what I wanted to hear.

Edit:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:


I'm trying to figure out what would be the optimum order to go in. Perhaps start with movement, got to shooting, then a close ranged one, then combat? Oh no it's just like combat doctrines

I would have thought best to start off with Eternal Guardians defensive buffs just in case you don't get first turn you can mitigate some alpha strike, otherwise it's business as usual and you won't have wasted a shooting buff when you're not in good range or LOS.

Voss wrote:

 buddha wrote:

 BroodSpawn wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/29/silent-king-the-rules-of-the-ruler/

There is only One 'Return', and it is of the King

Well, at least we can say those are rules worthy of the King.

It is rather a hodge-podge of disconnected abilities.
Most of it fits, I guess, but 'generalist commander' doesn't sit right in my head, and he doesn't share enough space with what Overlords usually do.

His abilities are also mostly not _him_. Its his balcony or his pillars, or his rocks or his secretaries.
_His_ only ability is 'voice of the triarchs' which is odd for a guy called the 'silent king.'

You could farm all these functions out to other characters, scenery or vehicles.

A king delegating a bunch of tasks so he doesn't have to do as much? Wow that's a first.

Trying to figure out when they happen. If they're automatic at the start of the battle round, regardless of who goes first, then the defensive ones aren't bad for turn 1.

If your command phase has to happen before they engage, the defensive protocols are amazingly bad for turn 1.

Agreed, I think the logical flow of it would be:

T1: Eternal Guardian for cover
T2: Vengeful Stars for either IC or bonus AP depending on what you need
T3: Hungering Void: This turn you'll be in combat likely or just about to charge, either buff could work here depending on what you field
T4: Conquering Tyrant: Let your more shooty units fall back and shoot, or if youre doing well give the aura buff to help the crons in combat
T5: Undying Legions: Hopefully that repair or Res buff will help you keep an objective or keep a character alive or something

You could easily replace the last one with Sudden Storm to grab lat minute objectives

This also assumes you run a balanced list

Undying Legions would be T1 if you go second though to help weather an alpha strike.

Ancient Dynasties of the Necrons on Warhammer Community: