Change to Dedicated Transports - No more totally mechanized armies?

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**catbarf**

Elbows wrote:
Overall it's a simple and logical rules change which makes sense.

However, all Transports need one thing to function as an actual transport: speed. While a couple (Wave Serpents are okayish) are suitably quick, most transports don't justify their points value when they only move 6" more than a normal infantry model. Either "Advancing" needs to change for vehicles, or you simply need Rhinos with an actual, genuine speed advantage over infantry. Back in 2nd edition most vehicles could end up around the 30" move area. Bring this back. Bump Rhinos to 18", Wave Serpents to 24", etc. etc. Make riding in one a feasible alternative to running across the field.

Turn 1 charges for melee armies is a stupid game design, but if you could zip up in one turn, pop smoke and be nearly guaranteed a charge on turn two...that's acceptable.

Apocalypse has the Assault order double your movement and let you move within 1" of the enemy as a combined Advance-or-charge sort of mechanic. It means that a 12" move vehicle can zip 24" across the board, which is quite handy.

Simply changing Advancing to double your movement would, I think, fix a lot about transports. And non-pillbox vehicles in general, for that matter.

**Gadzilla666**

Dedicated transports for infantry only? Does this mean my double chainclaw contemptor won't get back the ability to take a dreadclaw as a dedicated transport? Doesn't gw understand the sheer joy of dropping a fourteen foot tall mechanical Ash Williams from the sky and into my opponent's face? Forge the narrative indeed.

**Galas**

I believe as they are now, you "unlock" a dedicated transport per X unit but then you can assing any unit you want to that transport.

**Karol**

yeah, it would only be a problem if the chaos army was full csm and full mechanised with a rhino for each and every infantry unit.

**Amishprn86**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Dedicated transports for infantry only? Does this mean my double chainclaw contemptor won't get back the ability to take a dreadclaw as a dedicated transport? Doesn't gw understand the sheer joy of dropping a fourteen foot tall mechanical Ash Williams from the sky and into my opponent's face? Forge the narrative indeed.

Some units will most likely just have a rule that says you can take it, so i wouldn't worry to much about that. Its more about the general rules, like no Rhino from a Landraider.

**AnomanderRake**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Dedicated transports for infantry only? Does this mean my double chainclaw contemptor won't get back the ability to take a dreadclaw as a dedicated transport? Doesn't gw understand the sheer joy of dropping a fourteen foot tall mechanical Ash Williams from the sky and into my opponent's face? Forge the narrative indeed.

Dedicated Transports in 8e aren't assigned to specific units. What happens is that you take a CSM unit, they get a "Dedicated Transport", but instead of using it they let the Contemptor use it. (I don't know why they're still "Dedicated Transports" rather than just "Transports" given that they're actually not "Dedicated" to specific units anymore. Maybe it's a reference to the fact that they're all covered in religious icons, they're dedicated to the Emperor, or to a Chaos God, or to Khaine, etc. etc.)

**Fictional**

The cruel sadistic side of me always kind of hopes GW changes things to require some sort of match up, such that to get a Razorback, you need at least 1 unit that could use it as a transport.

**Lord Zarkov**

Sarigar wrote:
I actually took advantage of 8th edition ruling. I'd take 3 Nightspinners which then allowed me to take 3 Wave Serpents. RIP this version of mechdar, haha. It will morph yet again.

I did similar - had raiders for my ravagers so that my wyches and especially wracks could have vehicles crewed by flayed skull.

**Insectum7**

Karol wrote:
yeah, it would only be a problem if the chaos army was full csm and full mechanised with a rhino for each and every infantry unit.

You could even take 5 man units, packing two units in each Rhino and have your "transport slot" left over to use for a dreadnought Pod or whatever.

**Nevelon**

How many non-infanrty units could take DTs?

“Nid monsters could ride in tyranocysts.

Dreadnought pod from FW are FA, not DT? havn’t looked at their rules recently. And dreads can’t fit in normal pods anymore <grumble>

**AnomanderRake**

Nevelon wrote:
How many non-infanrty units could take DTs?

“Nid monsters could ride in tyranocysts.

Dreadnought pod from FW are FA, not DT? havn’t looked at their rules recently. And dreads can’t fit in normal pods anymore <grumble>

Units don't "take" Dedicated Transports in 8e. The only thing the restriction did was say "no more than half the units in your detachment can be DTs".

**alextroy**

I guess we will have to wait and see how/if GW handles this.

Day one Errata can easily fix the issue for select DT units.

**Insectum7**

alextroy wrote:
I guess we will have to wait and see how/if GW handles this.

Day one Errata can easily fix the issue for select DT units.

There isn't an issue. All you need is a unit of infantry in your list, of any type, and you can take a transport of any type. The Transport doesn't have to be used on the infantry, or even compatible with them. Do you want a Tyrannocyte for your Carnifex? Do you have a squad of Genestealers in your army? Done.

**H.B.M.C.**

Fictional wrote:
The cruel sadistic side of me always kind of hopes GW changes things to require some sort of match up, such that to get a Razorback, you need at least 1 unit that could use it as a transport.

Is that all that sadistic though? That's how it used to be, transports were dedicated to their unit, and weren't "battle taxis". The change in 8th was done to simplify transports, and whilst it's not specifically realistic, it's something that it think benefits the game overall.

**Nevelon**

Insectum7 wrote:
alextroy wrote:
I guess we will have to wait and see how/if GW handles this.

Day one Errata can easily fix the issue for select DT units.

There isn't an issue. All you need is a unit of infantry in your list, of any type, and you can take a transport of any type. The Transport doesn't have to be used on the infantry, or even compatible with them. Do you want a Tyrannocyte for your Carnifex? Do you have a squad of Genestealers in your army? Done.

I admit it’s a very corner case. If someone wanted to do a pure spore-dropped nidzilla list, (using rippers as troops to fill slots if they wanted a battalion), they would not be able to. I wasn’t sure if there were more examples that might be relevant from other codexes.

**Wakshaani**

I wish that they'd bring the cost of pure transports down to, say, 5 pts/wound (for marines, others would be less or more depending on how fragile they were) with some sort of "gunboat tax" for those who were more than transports.

Like a Razorback shouldn't be a handful of points more than a Rhino, but double, you know?

I dunno.

I'm old.

**alextroy**

Time will tell. They supposedly worked with tournament players to revise the points values of all the units and wargear. Maybe, just maybe they will realize that many transports are overpriced.

**Nevelon**

There are also internal ballance issues with transports vs. tanks.

Compare a Razorback to a Predator, or a Wave Serpent to a Falcon.

DT have a habit of outshining MBTs in 8th. (and for the WS, every other edition)

**Martel732**

GW doesn't understand how MBTs work.

**Blackie**

Wakshaani wrote:
I wish that they'd bring the cost of pure transports down to, say, 5 pts/wound (for marines, others would be less or more depending on how fragile they were) with some sort of "gunboat tax" for those who were more than transports.

Like a Razorback shouldn't be a handful of points more than a Rhino, but double, you know?

I dunno.

I'm old.

Razorbacks alwasy costed 2x Rhinos if they were equipped with the most effective weapons. Heavy Bolter Razorbacks aren't (and never have been) 2x Rhinos.