Dropfleet/Dropzone/Battlezone Commander news. Striketeam/Battlezone KS ends soon. Plastic vehicles

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**SgtBANZAI**

slyphic wrote:

My criticism: Aircraft rules feel tacked on and incongruous - his blog: "In fact, the Horizon Wars aircraft rules were literally taken from a separate game (that I also wrote) called AirFrame. But in practice, this mostly led to even the most enthusiastic players just ignoring aircraft entirely as an option for their Battle Groups and a lot of people complained that the rules were too complex."

I wouldn't hold your breath on this front to be honest. Author specifically said he's going to remove all the aircraft that isn't helicopters, to my understanding that severely limits DZC air capabilities?

Overall I personally really like Horizon Wars as a base frame of a great game. Beyond basic mechanics that me and my opponent enjoy there are a lot of design decisions we deemed to be outright bad, so we heavily house rule it.

**winnertakesall**

Overread wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really do not get what he was thinking seling his massive game to TTC. I think this game could jave taken the coveted second to warhakmer spot
So many at the time could have done better. But it went to, what is arguably a terrain company?
That's like selling a gaming franchise to people who make controllers

If I recall right he was thinking that he wanted the firm to survive and thrive. He needed additional staff and investment and TTC offered him that. Also pairing with a wargame store provides an income base for the company that isn't linked to model sales from one range alone. This can give a firm resources to ride out tricky times - for example a Kickstarter - which can burn through operating money and hinder production and cause all kinds of cash and product flow issues.

The downside is that TTC have not proven have been the best partner in the long-term. They've really not managed to capitalise on the market that got handed to them on a plate. GW pulled out; Spartan Games imploded and Warcradle took 5 years to get back on market with just 1 of their games. As noted before Dropzone/fleet wound up sitting in a market slot all themselves with the only competition being Starwars, which as a prepainted game system is related too but slightly adjacent in market terms.

So yeah they should have had no reason to not grow. They should have managed to grow and grow and right now should be in a really strong positoin even with GW bringing back Epic and Warcradle gaining steam with Dystopian and Firestorm "on the horizon"

Not quite, and I have to be careful what I say as I have some insider knowledge. TTCombat took over the manufacturing but ended up taking over Hawk in it's entirety. They then made everyone redundant after saying they wouldn't, so the only bit of hawk that's the same is Dave, and all of the rest of the company was gone. I personally suspect there was some slight underhandedness but hey, it's business.

**chaos0xomega**

Based on the Secret Weapon x TTC drama, I can see underhandedness being involved. Otherwise I agree with Overreads take, though I think hotsauceman is smoking/drinking something strong thinking DZC/DFC would have taken a "second to warhammer" spot. I think good management could have had the game in a much better position that it is now, but I dont know that it had all the qualities needed to hit "mainstream" levels of success like others that have come and gone through the #2 spot.

**Krinsath**

To chime in with further speculation, there seemed to be quite the kerfuffle around kickstarter fulfillment for Dropfleet; a large number of backers did not receive their orders and reportedly when contacting Hawk had to basically provide their entire invoice and reported that it felt like Hawk had no information on their pledge. That would seem to be corroborated by this snippet from a KS update from after TTCombat took over:

Here at TTC we fulfil our Kickstarters using Backerkit, which is a super easy system to use. Hawk used... a less easy system. I won't go into too much backstage detail (no one wants to see the sausages being made), but it's taken a little while to find out which orders were sent, which weren't, and who was missing what bits. Unfortunately a lot of this still isn't entirely clear for various reasons I won't be going into!

Possibly coincidentally, Mantic, who used the same third-party pledge manager for one of their campaigns at the time, had an issue where a subset of KS pledges had been "lost" and they were having to try and determine what they needed to fufill the orders and having to order additional quantities of some items because they didn't have any more to send. Wish I could recall off-hand which campaign it was, but sadly "Mantic Kickstarter" isn't exactly a short list....

The two things could be entirely coincidence, but a situation where a chunk of orders went MIA, production numbers consequently being too low and Hawk struggling to get things out the door would create a scenario where acquiring any sort of partner with logistics experience likely seemed quite appealing, if not urgently required. I don't believe Dave was ever particularly enarmored with the leadership aspects of business ownership either so it could have appeared to hit multiple birds with the same stone.

Shame how it's gone overall since then; really like the models but they're not exactly super-fun to acquire outside of direct ordering from the UK.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Regarding the potential for mainstream success, 2nd tier status is baked into both games at a core level.

Dropzone is basically, “you’re tired of straight up fighting games where victory is determined by kills, right? Here’s a game with complicated movement dynamics and victory conditions specifically designed for hardcore gamers.”

Dropfleet is “You’re tired of straight forward starship battle games, right? Here’s a game where destroying the enemy fleet and dominating orbital space has very little to do with winning. These are the complicated additions you’ve always wanted in a space battle rule set.”

Neither game could ever dominate their markets while being written as “next level” games for everyone bored with the games dominating their markets. Dropzone is a difficult and counterintuitive first wargame, and Dropfleet needs to drop (or heavily houserule) away its central premise for quick and easy gaming.

**beast_gts**

We know it's technically not edible but damn this thing looks tasty! Boil for 12 minutes and then smother with garlic butter and you could feed a whole army of Legionnaires. We'll let you fight over who get the tail.
The Scourge Light Behemoth is arriving on the TTCombat website tomorrow:
https://ttcombat.com/

Spoiler:

**slyphic**

The Scourge Light Behemoth

I thought from the teaser last week it would be a cool sculpt dragged down by a terrible paint job, but somehow the chintzy toy rainbow metallic paintjob isn't the worst part of this model. What on earth is supposed to be going on with the front feet things? They look like cheese graters. And the model has a bunch of flat featureless sections on it like they rushed the model, or upscaled elements where it was less noticeable at a smaller scale, or just got bored with it and called it a day. The top of the body looks kinda cool, but everything below the waterline is all kinds of sub-par.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Some parts look blown up in scale to me. I don’t hate it, but I wouldn’t buy it either.

**Brickfix**

Hm I'm not a fan of the troop compartments on the front legs, but other than that it looks like a solid model.

**beast_gts**

*NEW RELEASE*

Multiple new Miniatures and Terrain pieces have been added to the TTCombat website. Below are this week's latest Resin products!

UCM Brazil Light Behemoth
The Brazil and India are the UCM's Light Battle Mechs. These massive quadrupeds sit low to the ground, granting a modicum of cover for their large frame as well as ensuring that even if all legs are destroyed, they are merely immobilised.

Scourge Punisher Light Behemoth
The Punisher is unleashed by the Scourge when they care little for collateral damage. Its forelegs are a pair of hive-like structures that can carry a range of munitions, from explosive pods, to Razorworms. Its tail houses a Quake Bombard, a weapon capable of shaking buildings right down to their foundations.

Resistance K9 Technicals
During the Scourge occupation, many resistance bands continued to keep man's best friend. These K9 Attack Units are the mongrel descendants of the purebred pets from days before the occupation. Kept in kennels affixed to K9 Technicals, they're unleashed upon the enemy in support of friendly troops.

Vulture Gunship
Vultures Gunships come armed with two Twin Cannons, identical to the variants mounted on the Katana light tank, this gives the gunship respectable anti-tank firepower. The optional AA Battery gives the Vulture further versatility, allowing it to take on other aircraft. Alternatively, this kit can be assembled to make the Buzzard Aerial Target Craft, it loses out on one twin cannon, however is now a scouting vehicle. This gives it great versatility, allowing it to spot for units firing indirectly, as well as extend your commander's sphere of influence.

Find all of today's releases here:
https://ttcombat.com/

Spoiler:

**slyphic**

WTF? It has a literal lobster tail. "Its tail houses a Quake Bombard, a weapon capable of shaking buildings right down to their foundations." I can't tell if all the little squares are weapons or something else, but please please tell me it doesn't just flap its tail.

The dogs are still weird to me, no handlers, just a technical. Like it's a dog swarm it just dumps out? Stats are up and yeah, it's just a pack of dogs (that it might fail to spawn? double WTF, whoever wrote it copied the notes for the scourge razorworm torpedos)

The repair technical is the exact same arm, just an arm, identical. Nothing says resistance like identical components, right guys? And nothing else, no welding rigs, no rivet gun, no supply of scrap panels. Just a big dumb copypasted arm.

I really hate the direction this game has gone, goofy and lazy. The vulture is the only decent new model in ages.

**beast_gts**

NEW BASES!
Wanting to bring manufacturing in-house, from the 1st of August we will begin packaging Dropfleet Commander products with our new acrylic bases.

**slyphic**

"Wanting to bring manufacturing in-house"

... I should buy some more plastic sprues while they still exist.

Also, I guess they're moving to SSDs for DFC then? The dials never worked as well as Dave hoped, but I actually like the black bases with the dial popped out and the sticker absent because you can put dice and cubes in them to track ship state which works really well actually.

**BobtheInquisitor**

What do you mean by SSDs? Super Star Destroyers?

This move to cheaper in-house bases boxes really badly for the future of plastics in the game, and of the game in general.

**slyphic**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What do you mean by SSDs? Super Star Destroyers?

Ship Status Display, comes from the OG Star Fleet Battles, but in spaceship wargaming refers to anytime you have a sheet of paper to track ship state instead of using tokens or chits or dice.
I actually made some when we started playing DFC and were frustrated with the dials, before I hit upon the dice'n'cube tray apparoach

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
This move to cheaper in-house bases boxes really badly for the future of plastics in the game, and of the game in general.

I never bought any of the excuses for the new resin ships. This has been coming for a long time, as they run out of stock and TTC is too cheap/broke to afford another run of injected plastics.

**beast_gts**

TTCombat wrote:Cityscape or Ruinscape? Hmm, it's hard to pick just one so I guess we should just re-release both of them this Friday.
You'll soon find these updated sets on our website:
https://ttcombat.com/

**slyphic**

beast_gts wrote:
TTCombat wrote:Cityscape or Ruinscape? ... re-release both of them this Friday.

Sounds like they finally found a solution to their printing woes. Good. DFC command card restock happens, and we may yet see DZC faction cards this edition. Maybe even a full sized v3 rulebook next year.

**beast_gts**

New DZC models previewed on FB:

PHR Atlas

Spoiler:

Resistance Gunbus

Spoiler:

**Overread**

I wish they'd given that artillery truck some side braces that could be lowered down when firing or put the gun in in the middle of the bed. I just have this mental image of it firing and the whole thing flipping over

**slyphic**

I really like the concept of the gun bus, but yeah it needs modified to look less precarious. Why a bus and not a flat bed? The wagons are all chopped flat beds, and they have the full size model from the pre-conquest vehicle pack. Put it on something with more axles at least.

All the new resistance stuff has looked rushed lately. Like the copypaste kennel and repair arm trucks, and the dog models. Anyone seen pics of the dogs painted by a customer yet?

**chaos0xomega**

Putting the gun that far back, and almost over the axle, seems inadvisable from a design standpoint. Its putting all that weight and recoil force directly into the back of the trailer right at what is basically a critical point of failure. It should have been centered on the bed more to spread the load across both axels more equally.

Outrigger braces would have been a good call (and would help with the axel load issue by transferring the force elsewhere), especially since the gun seems to be on a turntable - they wouldn't necessarily do much when its firing straight ahead, but if youre firing off to the side you'd be at risk of flipping over.

**beast_gts**

PHR Atlas Walkers
While not fast, the Atlas can take twice as much punishment as a heavy walker, making it best employed in take and hold style operations, or as close protection for its cargo while they conduct urban operations. Indeed one Atlas provides superior firepower and survivability compared to the pair of Junos normally employed in such roles, albeit at a higher cost.

Resistance Gunbus
Like other improvised Resistance technicals, the Gun Bus repurposes a common, civilian unit. Buses are usually employed as transports, requiring basic modification, but sometimes they are stripped to their chassis, providing space enough to mount heavy weapons.

Spoiler:

"G88 Flak Cannon" - really?

**chaos0xomega**

Wehraboos gonna wehraboo?

**slyphic**

DZC asses keep getting worse.

Look at that big smeary flat featureless panel. Disgusting, given then level of detail everywhere else and on earlier models. TT can't design molds for gak.

And holy gak the alt-bus is bad.

There's nothing at all about that weapon that reads 'sonic', and the chopped school but puts the turret BEHIND THE REAR AXLE. This model was designed by someone totally ignorant of basic physics, let alone how vehicles work.

**Overread**

Even their old models had mould issues - who the heck designs the scourge with all their ridges and spines and dots on the mould line spot

**BobtheInquisitor**

That Nerf cannon is hilarious.

**beast_gts**

The all-new UCM Grizzly Mortar! For all your Scourge bombarding needs...

Spoiler:

**Brickfix**

The revolver mortar actually looks kinda cool

**Overread**

Mortar Revolver!!
Looks cool and won't fall over after firing!

**BobtheInquisitor**

The treads are the part I have a problem with.