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It looks like Aircraft can appear anywhere using strategic reserves. Seems pretty handy.

It also looks like the bases are easier to move around, but they can still block things since you cant place models on them and they're fairly large.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/12/taking-flightgw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like they can also move off the battlefield, and re-enter Reserves, which is kinda neat. Quick Strafing run then out of there.

Reserves appears to be changing too, so they mention.

Forge World has been giving all flyers Deep Strike all the time for a long time, but I think this will mark the first time GW has done the same.

Curious that the Tyranid flyers and Chaos Heldrake are absent from that list. I get that they're more monstrous things that want to charge, but the models are obviously in the same archetype as other aircraft.

 McGibs wrote:
Curious that the Tyranid flyers and Chaos Heldrake are absent from that list. I get that they're more monstrous things that want to charge, but the models are obviously in the same archetype as other aircraft.

The new AdMech Ornithopter thing isn't on the list either. I'm assuming the AIRCRAFT keyword implies a certain turn of speed, maybe similar to the previous Supersonic rule?

The admech coptor, being a new dataslate with 9th in mind, already HAS the aircraft keyword. This list seems more like a FAQ to bring older units into line.
The heldrake missing makes some sense, as it's more of a flying dreadnought in 8th. It doesnt even have the hard-to-hit rule (as much as that conflicts with it's lore and model).
The Tyranid flyers make less sense, other than the fact that they're organic.

Seems to be still in that weird halfway house of being half on the table and half not. You can still use a flyer to block a charge against a unit you don't want charged, for example, or to prevent a unit from moving into a particular area.

I can see why GW does this, though. This is a game with models. If you just placed a token on the board to represent where your flyer was hovering over for gameplay purposes, like say an objective marker, people wouldn't need to buy the very expensive models any more.

Monstrous flying creatures can still use their bases to block ground movement and can engage ground forces in close combat.

Aircraft can't do those things. I think it's cool having both types.

So how exactly does a "murderous strafing run" work if shooting occurs after the movement phase?

Turn 1: move into position, and then shoot.
Turn 2 move off board, not allowed to shoot (maybe allow for a bomb to be dropped during movement phase?).
Turn 3 move back onto board.

So you miss out on an entire turn's shooting phase just to be able to fly off the board?

Also, does every aircraft have the ability to start in Strategic Reserves and arrive Turn 1?

Previously if you flew off the board you were just gone.

 Gnarlly wrote:
So how exactly does a "murderous strafing run" work if shooting occurs after the movement phase?

Turn 1: move into position, and then shoot.
Turn 2 move off board, not allowed to shoot (maybe allow for a bomb to be dropped during movement phase?).
Turn 3 move back onto board.

So you miss out on an entire turn's shooting phase just to be able to fly off the board?

Also, does every aircraft have the ability to start in Strategic Reserves and arrive Turn 1?

Point is you can fly off and come back rather than be destroyed. Gives better freedom with minimum moves. Before it was possible to destroy aircraft blocking places to move

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Previously if you flew off the board you were just gone.

I know. But is there really any advantage to going off the board now if you can't shoot the next turn? Not allow the enemy to score points by shooting down your model?

Guess we will have to just wait and see.

This is nothing but positive.

The notion a plane should be able to move off the board and shoot (thus preventing it from being shot) is going to be a bad time. I imagine a strafing run can encompass a couple turns, a turn is supposed to represent a moment in time on the battlefield.

It'll be interesting for bombers, as they can get a free bombing run turn 1, then come back turn 2 and start firing, or try to hide themselves in a position to do another bombing run turn 3.

 Gnarlly wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Previously if you flew off the board you were just gone.

I know. But is there really any advantage to going off the board now if you can't shoot the next turn? Not allow the enemy to score points by shooting down your model?

Guess we will have to just wait and see.

You are missing the point.

 Gnarlly wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Previously if you flew off the board you were just gone.

I know. But is there really any advantage to going off the board now if you can't shoot the next turn? Not allow the enemy to score points by shooting down your model?

Guess we will have to just wait and see.

Not dying? I mean call me stupid if you want but to me dying means losing more than 1 turn of shooting. When before you went boom and lost shooting from rest of turns now you come back.

Going off the board or not isn"t always up to flyer

Also getting out of aa weapons and come back to safe place is also positive sometimes

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Gnarlly wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Previously if you flew off the board you were just gone.

I know. But is there really any advantage to going off the board now if you can't shoot the next turn? Not allow the enemy to score points by shooting down your model?

Guess we will have to just wait and see.

You are missing the point.

Which is now you don't get destroyed if you leave the board? I get that point.

I am questioning the advantage to leaving the board vs. making our 90' moves and staying on the table as we have done the past several years. A flyer missing out on a full turn of shooting sounds like a huge disadvantage to me when compared with having to make measured 90' moves. If bombers are still allowed to drop a bomb in the movement phase the turn they fly off then that is not too bad, but very unrealistic IMO.

I like the idea mentioned in the News and Rumors thread that aircraft (especially "supersonic") models appear on the table where they want during their turn, perform their shooting, enemy "overwatches" with anti-aircraft fire, and then flyers are removed from the table until the next turn.

You don't always have that option as you can't end top of enemy model. Taking out fliers by blocking all positions it could end is tactic that has been used for 3 years.

I found the stream to be quite amusing. They spent a long time talking about all the weird interactions aircraft have in 8th and how they don't really work very well and don't feel like planes. Yes, that's because planes don't belong in 40k as physical models. Every problem they're talking about could easily be solved by getting rid of planes as a concept given how weird it is to see them at the scale of a 40k battle.

But they're here to stay so trying to fix them is fine, I guess. Seems like it was yet another stream with no real information though. I'm all for teasing out the details of 9th slowly but this week it doesn't feel like GW have done such a great job of giving out decent info.

tneva82 wrote:
You don't always have that option as you can't end top of enemy model. Taking out fliers by blocking all positions it could end is tactic that has been used for 3 years.

Yes, though somewhat rare in my experience unless playing against some hordes and not paying attention to model placement.

Don't get me wrong, the new flyer rules are a definite improvement. However, there is significant room for improvement in 40k jet fighter rules on the smaller tables we will be seeing. A "supersonic" jet performing a strafing run should show up, shoot/get shot at by AA, and then leave the board. Not make short, unrealistic 90' turns while trying to stay within a small(er) rectangular box.

 Gnarlly wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Previously if you flew off the board you were just gone.

I know. But is there really any advantage to going off the board now if you can't shoot the next turn? Not allow the enemy to score points by shooting down your model?

Guess we will have to just wait and see.

Given how some of the terrain allows ground units to shoot up and aircraft to still lack visibility then it means positioning will be more important for getting the shot.

Yes, they can come in as reserves.

 McGibs wrote:
Curious that the Tyranid flyers and Chaos Heldrake are absent from that list. I get that they're more monstrous things that want to charge, but the models are obviously in the same archetype as other aircraft.

The ultimate irony is they have the demon turkey in the article image. I don't dislike the heldrake being able to charge, i just wish it had a little more punch to it.

Also an interesting combo that might be useable now:
Imagine an enemy deployment zone relatively packed with no real space for a flyer base +9'', but big enough for Scions +9'' (or 5'' with the stratagem "Precision drop"). As of 8th while you could deepstrike a Valkyrie in front of that deploymentzone, fly over it, disembark your scions, you would loose the Valkyrie afterwards, as it could not be placed anywhere, could not pivot and fly back and if it left the battlefield would be lost.

With the new rule you can deepstrike, fly over the enemy, drop your Scions and then leave the battlefield to return somewhere along the next rounds to pick them up. Loosing the shooting phase of the Valkyrie is not that horrible, especially if you kit it out cheap.

Simultanously now a Marauder Bomber (assuming it will get the Aircraft keyword too) can do his three bombing runs completely unharmed, as he comes in from Reserves, flies over his target bombing it, and out of the battlefield. Next turn he comes back in, flies over his next target, bombs it and out of the battlefield etc. The bombs are the big seller on the model, the Twin Lascannon and 4 Heavy Bolters are no great loss for ensuring all three bombing runs succeed.

Except when you come in from reserves, you dont move. You deepstrike in 9" away and that's it for your movement. You arent moving over anything, and you cant fly off the table afterwards.

Sorry, my Bad. But the general point is still valid, I think?

It seems all good to me.

You have the option to start normally
You have the option to deepstrike
and, if needed, you can fly off the board and come back.

Yeah, liking this. I've never played with a flier before, but I just picked up the Drukhari Poisonblade box, so I actually have one.

PenitentJake wrote:
Yeah, liking this. I've never played with a flier before, but I just picked up the Drukhari Poisonblade box, so I actually have one.

I bought the same box, the Razorwing was great to put together.

I was thinking of getting a Xiphon when FW Opens back up anyways...

 McGibs wrote:
Curious that the Tyranid flyers and Chaos Heldrake are absent from that list. I get that they're more monstrous things that want to charge, but the models are obviously in the same archetype as other aircraft.

A Heldrake isn't the same thing as a Hell Talon and it's always been kinda weird that they're classified as a flier. A heldrake could land mid-fight and start eating guardsmen if it wanted to, it's only marginally more of a flier than a winged daemon prince.

Don't play nids so aren't as familiar with those models but I assume they're largely the same.

Overall I think these rules are about as good as the rules for airborne could be - does all it can to reduce the gaminess of plane vs infantry interaction short of putting airborne models on hover-bases that an infantry model could stand on.

My "organize things in a box" part of my brain just wants all models with a flyer-base to fit in the same camp (aircraft). I'm totally fine with Heldrakes being more like flying dreadnoughts, but then I wish the model looked more like the Zombie Dragon or something, crawling on the ground.