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What do you guys think of impulsor with the point hike ? Are they still worth ? Was thinking about buying one out before the 9th appeared to feth everything up.

So what units have people found that have dropped in points? I saw that a vulture with 4 rocket pods dropped by 2, which makes me consider it over the 50pt more expensive punisher variant.

yukishiro1 wrote:

Right, but it's not the same item. There's a Chainsword, and then an Astartes Chainsword. The Primaris guys get the Astartes Chainsword, the minimarines get the normal Chainswords. It's not any more confusing to have both than to have power swords and power mauls.

Power mauls and swords look different, these do not. It is just confusing to have astartes with chainsword which is differnt than astartes chainsword that looks identical. Furthermore, Intercessors Sergeants can get chainswords too, so surely these at least should be the better ones?

I also wonder if all Primaris will switch to Heavy Bolt Pistols.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I also wonder if all Primaris will switch to Heavy Bolt Pistols.

I don't think so. The heavy pistols actually look different.

 Trickstick wrote:
So what units have people found that have dropped in points? I saw that a vulture with 4 rocket pods dropped by 2, which makes me consider it over the 50pt more expensive punisher variant.

most of the big ones are typical GW utter lack of proofing anything.

9th edition as all editions will take time to settle. This isn't anything new and the game with regards addressing problems is better now than it has been in the past in my opinion.

I don't think most armies will find their proper place until their Official Codex is released.

Folk talking about throwing their armies on eBay need to settle thereselves down.

"GW always makes a mess of new releases, calm down" is a funny sort of argument. I don't necessarily disagree, but what does it say that people have been conditioned to expect GW to mess all sorts of things up when transitioning to a new edition?

The whole reason they have playtesters is to spot all this stuff that basically amount to bad proofreading. I have no doubt the playtesters did, and flagged it. But GW just didn't fix stuff, as usual. What's the point of playtesting when you don't actually fix the obvious errors your playtesters identify?

I thought 9th was gonna be different and better because it was written with tournament players and playtesters in mind?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I thought 9th was gonna be different and better because it was written with tournament players and playtesters in mind?

It's the most polished edition ever. Apparently.

WhiteDog wrote:
What do you guys think of impulsor with the point hike ? Are they still worth ?

They strike me as really solid. Contesting (or just outright claiming) objectives early is a big deal- so move 14" forward and chuck the objective secured squad out to claim anything up to 3" away. Or if you can't quite reach, huddle under the shield for a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

Right, but it's not the same item. There's a Chainsword, and then an Astartes Chainsword. The Primaris guys get the Astartes Chainsword, the minimarines get the normal Chainswords. It's not any more confusing to have both than to have power swords and power mauls.

Power mauls and swords look different, these do not. It is just confusing to have astartes with chainsword which is differnt than astartes chainsword that looks identical. Furthermore, Intercessors Sergeants can get chainswords too, so surely these at least should be the better ones?

It doesn't matter. Whats on the datasheet determines how things function.
Its why a big chunk of FAQs had to go over Demolisher cannons, because quite a few armies still had outdated versions.

Fact Confirmed! GW = Blizzard!

Now we just need Disney to buy out GW and we can get around to having our Mickey Mouse army!

Voss wrote:

It doesn't matter. Whats on the datasheet determines how things function.

Yes, I know. But how it now functions is stupid.

Its why a big chunk of FAQs had to go over Demolisher cannons, because quite a few armies still had outdated versions.

And they could have done that with the marine chainswords too. Though I suspect and hope that the reason they didn't bother is that a new codex is right around the corner and it will be fixed there. (As annoying as the codex being invalidated this soon would be.)

 Crimson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

Right, but it's not the same item. There's a Chainsword, and then an Astartes Chainsword. The Primaris guys get the Astartes Chainsword, the minimarines get the normal Chainswords. It's not any more confusing to have both than to have power swords and power mauls.

Power mauls and swords look different, these do not. It is just confusing to have astartes with chainsword which is differnt than astartes chainsword that looks identical. Furthermore, Intercessors Sergeants can get chainswords too, so surely these at least should be the better ones?

Well, according to the Astartes points leak video the normal Chainsword is still in the book and is zero points. If that's really going to stick and GW missed the opportunity to do a full overhaul and give everybody "Astartes Chainswords". . . that's a real shame.

Yeah, marines definitely need even more free AP on their attacks, it's what the game is calling out for.

 Crimson wrote:

Voss wrote:

It doesn't matter. Whats on the datasheet determines how things function.

Yes, I know. But how it now functions is stupid.

Its why a big chunk of FAQs had to go over Demolisher cannons, because quite a few armies still had outdated versions.

And they could have done that with the marine chainswords too. Though I suspect and hope that the reason they didn't bother is that a new codex is right around the corner and it will be fixed there. (As annoying as the codex being invalidated this soon would be.)

There are _a lot_ more entries for chainswords. They'd have to reference... a couple dozen (or more) entries per book, for...half the books? Including a fair number of PA books. Imagine the demolisher entry in the guard FAQ, but it takes up half a page with numbers and citations.

I think 'patching' it that way would be much worse, and open a can of worms as well. 'Why not stormshields?,' I hear the internet cry, and why not fix the dozen or so dark eldar weapons nerfed into oblivion while they're at it? The cascade of 'but what about?' would go on for a while. Or end in more 'those space marines are so special' grumbling.

Edit:
And what yukishiro said. A dedicated assault unit getting -1 AP is grudgingly fine (less so when assault doctrine kicks in). Another SM wide buff? Come on now.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, marines definitely need even more free AP on their attacks, it's what the game is calling out for.

It is just about consistency and verisimilitude. Give the better chainsword an appropriate point cost and it is fine. (Not that they seem to be able to do that. I guess it will either cost zero or five points...)

(It has bugged me since the third edition that the iconic chaisword is not better than any random pointy stick.)


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Voss wrote:
'Why not stormshields?,' I hear the internet cry,

Yes, definitely! They absolutely should fix the storm shields! Decide how a piece of equipment works, then make it work like that for everyone.

Space Marines never pay for having better stuff. I guess maybe that's consistency and verisimilitude too?

You get an extra attack from it, so it is definitely better than a pointy stick.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
They should definitely errata all marine chainswords and stormshields to work the same way. It will just be confusing if there are several different versions of the same item in one army.

The chainsword isn't the same. There's a normal chainsword, and an astartes chainsword. Not the same item.

If I remember right the article was distinguishing Marie chainswords from other chainswords in the universe.

That's why it is an Astartes chainsword. Whereas storm shields need no such separation just as melta guns work the same across the universe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I thought 9th was gonna be different and better because it was written with tournament players and playtesters in mind?

Have you played it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WhiteDog wrote:
What do you guys think of impulsor with the point hike ? Are they still worth ? Was thinking about buying one out before the 9th appeared to feth everything up.

They likely will be, but you never know how things will adjust. It seems to be there will always be space for at least one or two of them.

Speaking of stupid marines things, eradicators. Multi-meltas for some reason nobody can understand cost 20 on infantry, or 25 on vehicles. A devastator with a multi-melta - T4, 1W, 1 shot, suffers -1 for heavy - is 35 points.

An eradicator - T5, 3W, no -to hit for moving, can even shoot while advancing (at -1), fires twice every round no matter what as long as it fires both shots at the same target - 40 points.

This is offensively stupid.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Space Marines never pay for having better stuff. I guess maybe that's consistency and verisimilitude too?

You get an extra attack from it, so it is definitely better than a pointy stick.

Where were you for the first ... 75% of 8th ed, when Marines were getting the same equipment as other Imperial factions and paying more for the privilege?

The devastator is on the way to legends. The eradicator is not. One is a new model. The other is not. GW is finally doing what people have accused them of for decades.

Table wrote:
Nah, im done with GW. Been dealing with the chaos tax for to long. 6 point cultists and 14 point CSM's while Inter's are at 20. That's just blatant favoritism. Problem is, not sure where is the best place is to sell my stuff? Ebay?

It's pretty much no different than CA19, soooo...

I think they were hoping for some relief...

yukishiro1 wrote:
Speaking of stupid marines things, eradicators. Multi-meltas for some reason nobody can understand cost 20 on infantry, or 25 on vehicles. A devastator with a multi-melta - T4, 1W, 1 shot, suffers -1 for heavy - is 35 points.

An eradicator - T5, 3W, no -to hit for moving, can even shoot while advancing (at -1), fires twice every round no matter what as long as it fires both shots at the same target - 40 points.

This is offensively stupid.

Fun fact: White Scars eradicators can advance and shoot them at no penalty.

They got a chapter buff since the -1 penalty for moving heavy weapons on bikes no longer exists.

Given the sheer number of assault weapons in primaris hands, White Scars are the primaris army you never knew you needed.
Oddly the new primaris bikes don't particularly benefit from this new aspect of White Scars tactics. (they definitely love the advance and charge bit though!)

 Daedalus81 wrote:
It's pretty much no different than CA19, soooo...

4 vs 6? 11 vs 14? "Pretty much no different"?

Scion command squads got cheaper, and here is how.
+4 points cost for the actual bodies, 4 bodies, BUT, armed with either hotshotvolleyguns (2 points less each) or melta guns (4 points less each) they actually go down in price.
Similarly, a scions group with 2 melta guns and a plasma pistol in a 5 man msu squad goes up in price 10 poitns but down in price 8, so only a 2 point creep up. That's not cheaper per se, but it sort of makes dropping in some melta scions an attractive option again, and the HSVG scions fill an excellent back line/ support / grab an objective role.

But .. elysians, what the hell, man, what the hell.

Martel732 wrote:
I think they were hoping for some relief...

They got relief? CSM used to be 13 - a separation of 4 from Primaris. The separation is now 6.

Or salamanders, who get to do their master artisans reroll twice since they're firing twice rather than getting two shots, plus the bonus to wound on T3, and the bonus AP on T2.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
Anyone have any idea about the FW stuff for astra?

For guard?
Elysians got the boot.
Death Rider Commissar did to.
Goonhammer said several older tanks and flyers also vanished but didn't specify.

Don't know about points.