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I haven't really been active on the site for quite some time. This is probably my first post in months, which I saying something as I used to have something like a 5 post per day average.

But recently I am just overwhelmed by all the new stuff.
It used to be very important for me to know most of the rules.
At one point, I think back in 5th ed maybe 6th, I owned all but 2 of the current Codices.

Ever since 8th dropped it's been harder and harder for me to keep up, which is sad because 8th has been my favorite edition so far and 9th is looking promising as well.
I just don't think I'll ever be up to date enough to feel comfortable playing competitively again.

There's a very real chance I won't even get a copy of the rules and points changes for months. Although that's partly due to buying our first home soon and all the expenses that come with moving.
Once the dust settles on our move, I know I'm going to struggle to get back into 40k. I've consistently played 40k since 4th ed, to the exclusion of all other hobbies or even video gaming.
Picking it back up after only a few months hiatus is going to feel like starting all over again.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. But I was compelled to write it out.

-

Things are probably going to be pretty messy at first.

So it might be a silver lining to miss the beginning and return once things have settled a bit and the community has made plenty of how tos and getting to grips with X articles/videos

The new terrain rules definitely give me a headache. Mostly from wording (which wanders around the point a lot) and lack of consistency.

Some of the rest I just haven't integrated yet.
For example, I took the change to the heavy weapon movement penalty as 'vehicles,' rather than 'not infantry.' Its a big difference, but I suspect I took it that way because I didn't believe how generous it was.

A break may well make it easier to adapt to 9th. Less contradictory information, and a better of understanding of the changes, rather than the kneejerk interpretations.

^ agree that there's going to be a messy transition for a little bit.

At the end of the day the only things you should need for a game for a while are the new rulebook and the codex of one army you want to play. And a friendly opponent. Restart with some low-point games and you'll find your footing, I'm sure.

I haven't played in. . . at least half a year I think. It'll probably still be another month before I'm likely to get a game in, too. But I'll do the same thing, start small and then expand into it again.

 Galef wrote:
I haven't really been active on the site for quite some time. This is probably my first post in months, which I saying something as I used to have something like a 5 post per day average.

But recently I am just overwhelmed by all the new stuff.
It used to be very important for me to know most of the rules.
At one point, I think back in 5th ed maybe 6th, I owned all but 2 of the current Codices.

Ever since 8th dropped it's been harder and harder for me to keep up, which is sad because 8th has been my favorite edition so far and 9th is looking promising as well.
I just don't think I'll ever be up to date enough to feel comfortable playing competitively again.

There's a very real chance I won't even get a copy of the rules and points changes for months. Although that's partly due to buying our first home soon and all the expenses that come with moving.
Once the dust settles on our move, I know I'm going to struggle to get back into 40k. I've consistently played 40k since 4th ed, to the exclusion of all other hobbies or even video gaming.
Picking it back up after only a few months hiatus is going to feel like starting all over again.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. But I was compelled to write it out.

-

This is why I have been collecting 6th and 8th edition fantasy stuff. There is something nice about a game which is set, where you can take your time, collect the stuff you want knowing that things won't change on you in a second. I totally get what you mean.

I've felt overwhelmed since the 2nd chaos codex dropped.

As a Disciple of Tzeentch I thrive in Change.

Overwhelmed? No.
Underwhelmed? Possibly.

I can definitely imagine reading my shiny new book next week & thinking "All that hype for ...... this?"

Totally understand. I haven't even read the new 9th stuff yet, I just want to wait until I get it i my hands and can sit down with it all in one place.
Then I'll probably play a few small games to see how it feels.
I have quite a few armies but will probably just start with a few first and see how it goes.
I am glad that soup is not rewarded, as that seemed like where most of the head games would crop up with synergy. Mono is going to make things so much better.

Well I don't get why people that have 20+ experience in the game should struggle playing 40k in terms of expenses. In terms of time I can understand but expenses? You already have the miniatures to play, the core rules are free and the only thing to buy is the codex, and probably not even that for a while since the edition will start with already existing codexes.

Unless we're talking about chasing events, any possible player with 20+ experience in the hobby should be absolutely ok in any real meta without investing a penny.

 Blackie wrote:
Well I don't get why people that have 20+ experience in the game should struggle playing 40k in terms of expenses. In terms of time I can understand but expenses? You already have the miniatures to play, the core rules are free and the only thing to buy is the codex, and probably not even that for a while since the edition will start with already existing codexes.

Unless we're talking about chasing events, any possible player with 20+ experience in the hobby should be absolutely ok in any real meta without investing a penny.

Oh definitely. After nearly 30 years of doing this I could never purchase another 40k model in my life & I'd be just fine with new books 99% of the time.
That last 1%? That's when I run into something like the Battalion (?) in 8th. In order to run my SW at that level I had to, after all these years, invest in a 3rd squad of 10 Grey Hunters. I can handle that.

Otherwise it's just that GW keeps on making cool new models. For ex; I don't need that primaris dune buggy, I just WANT it. Actually I want two of it. One for my SM & one for Orks.

My 9th ed plan? The same as my 8th ed plan - start with my SWs (they lead the charge every edition. {except for that 1 7th ed game I played - I wasn't aware the edition had changed!})
After that I'll branch out & play my DA & Khorne Demons while I build the new Necron stuff.

I generaly like the changes. Nothing looks as bad as it was through most of 8th ed. I am not trying to invent the sun game play wise, I leave that to people smarter then me.

At worse 9th seems like fun for a few weeks, till 9th tailored codex starts coming out. At best it could be fun for a few months.

Only thing I don't like is the table size and GW strange fetish in trying to force faction terrain on to armies. I hope my GK won't get any of that stuff forced on to them.

The Rona has allowed me a lot more hobby time since I started working from home. Providing IT support via internet, phone etc allows me to build and paint all day long.

I've also been enjoying reading the PA books, which have some really great lore.

As for the new rules, I haven't spent any time reading anything yet. I'll give the book a look through once I have it in my hands.

 Galef wrote:

I just don't think I'll ever be up to date enough to feel comfortable playing competitively again.

This game is much more fun and less stressful if you don't take it too seriously and don't be overly competitive when you play.

With that said, for some people the only option they have is to play in a competitive area or not at all.
If you have the option however, try to play with people who don't take the game too seriously and you'll probably feel less stressed out about it.

Well, the transition looks messy to me too.
FAQs are already out? Just another question mark.
I'll refer to the free part of the rules and the pt update made by Battle Scribe.
This should be enough to get into the game.
Pt changes of models and units look random in part.

Voss wrote:
The new terrain rules definitely give me a headache. Mostly from wording (which wanders around the point a lot) and lack of consistency.

Try using just the bullet points. They contain the important stuff, only look at the full text when a question comes up that can't be answered by those.

A break may well make it easier to adapt to 9th. Less contradictory information, and a better of understanding of the changes, rather than the kneejerk interpretations.

Yeah, it's hard to get the old stuff out of your head after years of playing like that. New coherency for 6+ models is my nemesis so far, kept forgetting it

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

I just don't think I'll ever be up to date enough to feel comfortable playing competitively again.

This game is much more fun and less stressful if you don't take it too seriously and don't be overly competitive when you play.

With that said, for some people the only option they have is to play in a competitive area or not at all.
If you have the option however, try to play with people who don't take the game too seriously and you'll probably feel less stressed out about it.

Totally this. And I think the tone of most of the discussion about it all on the internet doesn't really help with how stressful it can be either. I'm just gonna carry on painting the figures I wanna paint and throwing together the occasional game when I feel like it.

40ks complexity has skyrocketed in terms of understanding what any given unit on the table can do.

While the core rules themselves are simplistic each unit is increasingly packed with unique bonuses, upon which are stacked faction bonuses, extra faction bonuses, auras, and many dozens of strategems such that the effect of each unit on the table is all but impossible for a casual player to estimate.

Overwhelmed? Yeah. After having bought 8 editions worth of rulebooks and an alarmingly growing number of codexes (I have about 12 armies now), I'm declaring I'm done and won't be replacing my 8E rules. I can't afford to keep up, and since I started back up with my primary hobby of D&D, haven't played any games anyways.

Armies for those who care...

Unless we're talking about chasing events, any possible player with 20+ experience in the hobby should be absolutely ok in any real meta without investing a penny.

Thats not really true. I have been in the GW sphere since 1997. I have (had before I started getting out of GW last fall) about 15 armies for both fantasy and 40k. I had 7 40k armies. None of those armies were able to play in a powerlisting environment that I live in in last edition.

Even if you have a massive miniatures collection, to keep up in a powerlisting environment you will typically always have to buy new models that you don't yet have unless you just happen to own every unit ever produced in large sums (because in a powerlisting environment its usually always about min maxing spam)

 Galef wrote:
I haven't really been active on the site for quite some time. This is probably my first post in months, which I saying something as I used to have something like a 5 post per day average.

But recently I am just overwhelmed by all the new stuff.
It used to be very important for me to know most of the rules.
At one point, I think back in 5th ed maybe 6th, I owned all but 2 of the current Codices.

Ever since 8th dropped it's been harder and harder for me to keep up, which is sad because 8th has been my favorite edition so far and 9th is looking promising as well.
I just don't think I'll ever be up to date enough to feel comfortable playing competitively again.

There's a very real chance I won't even get a copy of the rules and points changes for months. Although that's partly due to buying our first home soon and all the expenses that come with moving.
Once the dust settles on our move, I know I'm going to struggle to get back into 40k. I've consistently played 40k since 4th ed, to the exclusion of all other hobbies or even video gaming.
Picking it back up after only a few months hiatus is going to feel like starting all over again.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. But I was compelled to write it out.

-

You can be entirely relevantly up-to-date with just the codecies for your armies, unless you play all but 2 of the current armies back in 5th & 6th.
I think your general overwhelmedness may be a consequence of external stressors in your life as well.


I, for one, am feeling pretty overwhelmed by life in general thanks to covid, grad school, work, and having to move as well, and with the games store re-opening I'm planning on cutting out the time to play 40k because I'm going to go insane otherwise.

Thanx for all the feedback.
I guess I'm lucky that I have 2 teen boys that will play every now and then.

My issue with being "up to date" to play even semi competitive games is that the more complex each army is, the more likely it will be that an opponent doesn't know their own Army's rules.
So if I want to play semi competitive, I have to know ALL Armies rules so I can correct my opponent if they either cheat or accidentally gimp themselves.
That's just far too time intensive now.

So I guess I'll have to just stick with Marines, Chaos and Eldar because that's what we can play at home.

-

 auticus wrote:

Unless we're talking about chasing events, any possible player with 20+ experience in the hobby should be absolutely ok in any real meta without investing a penny.

Thats not really true. I have been in the GW sphere since 1997. I have (had before I started getting out of GW last fall) about 15 armies for both fantasy and 40k. I had 7 40k armies. None of those armies were able to play in a powerlisting environment that I live in in last edition.

Even if you have a massive miniatures collection, to keep up in a powerlisting environment you will typically always have to buy new models that you don't yet have unless you just happen to own every unit ever produced in large sums (because in a powerlisting environment its usually always about min maxing spam)

I simply disagree, but YMMV. With the transition between 7th and 8th I haven't bought a single model for my orks and just replaced 3 drop pods with 3 rhinos/razorbacks with SW. I'm not going to buy a single more model for 9th edition and I have the feeling that I won't need anything more to play even in a semi-competitive meta. Which means 5 years without investing money on more models, that could easily increase.

Of course if your meta ONLY has tournament level lists that is a different matter, but I don't think it's a common environment, especially in those areas where 40k is quite popular and have a large number of players. Here there are any type of players and getting games that are purely casual, pre-arranged matches (narrative or not) or with reasonably optimized but not broken lists is easy.

7 armies are really a lot, and I can understand your point. But most people with the same experience don't have more than 1-3 armies which at this point at least one of them should be large enough to guarantee nice games. I mean a collection of 3000ish points models that isn't oriented in spamming a few niche units should be ok for decades.

 Galef wrote:
Thanx for all the feedback.
I guess I'm lucky that I have 2 teen boys that will play every now and then.

My issue with being "up to date" to play even semi competitive games is that the more complex each army is, the more likely it will be that an opponent doesn't know their own Army's rules.
So if I want to play semi competitive, I have to know ALL Armies rules so I can correct my opponent if they either cheat or accidentally gimp themselves.
That's just far too time intensive now.

So I guess I'll have to just stick with Marines, Chaos and Eldar because that's what we can play at home.

-

I just let them do. And if something seems suspicious, I ask to see their rulebook.

A break may well make it easier to adapt to 9th. Less contradictory information, and a better of understanding of the changes, rather than the kneejerk interpretations.

My group played a ton of 9th ed games over the weekend. Thanks to the virus, these were our first games in months. For us, I think the break definitely helped.

To the OP - Congrats on your house! There's nothing wrong with feeling that way. When 2nd edition was ending I was pretty salty. Everyone around me was excited for the new streamlined edition as 2nd had become too bloated (if they only knew then what we know now ). I was also very young and had nothing but tie on my hands so "keeping up" with things was easy for me and I couldn't understand why anyone was having an issue. Fast forward to 7th and I was VERY excited for the new streamlined rules of 8th because "Who in the feth has time to track all this?!". So I finally came full circle. Nothing wrong with taking a step back and painting/modelling, or even just sticking with 8th for a while.

My group felt like, after our test games and seeing the points leaks yesterday that maybe we will just stick to 8th until the dust settles. Nothing wrong with that. And in terms of being semi-competitive - as someone else said, just ask to see their book.

Also, something I do is - I'll tell my opponent who my army is and the "big picture powers" up front and then ask about theirs. Good ice breaker and it gets you off on the right foot. So for example "This is my Mechanicus army. They are Stygies so you will be at -1 to shoot them at over 12". The tech Priest Manipulus has a Warlord trait that gives my Destroyers a 5+FnP when they are near him, these two squads can "infiltrate", and here's the chart for Canticles of the Omnisiah. So what does your army do?" I've never had someone respond negatively to that and helps get you around the difficulty of playing competitively and not knowing everything.

I feel for you, and for all competitive folks who feel like they need to know every rule for every army. I know that you are not alone- there were people all through 8th, who insisted- swore up and down- that they needed every book in order to play the game.

I know at one time, it was possible to know all the rules, but I actually don't think that was ever GW's intention- I just think they were limited in production at the times when things were simpler, and that they always would have been where we are now if it had been possible.

Roleplaying Games and Collectible Card Games ALWAYS had more rules than any one player was ever supposed to use, and I think 40K is the table top game that comes closest to achieving that level of sandbox. It's why it's always been my favourite mini game.

I think that players who are used to knowing every rule, or who want to know every rule should actually think for a second about whether or not that's the game that GW is making. To me, it seems clear as the nose on my face that this is not that game.

This is the game where you are supposed to know every rule of the army you're playing that day, and it's all you're supposed to know. Your opponent is supposed to be in the same boat. As you play, you teach other the basics of how YOUR army plays. Many of these things- especially the ones that change the game- will be remembered, not for their mechanics, but for their general impact. And so yes, in other games against that army, you can learn to plan around those things, but not because you have the book and memorized the mechanics, but because you have game experience.

Those are the things the designers aim for, I think. I've seen math hammer, and I respect it, but I think if you talk to the designers, you'll find that sort of thing isn't really how they think the game should be played and judged. I think they probably respect the fact that players do it, but they also probably think you're all a little bit crazy.

That's changing, I think- they've incorporated some obviously tournament minded people into the design team, to try and meet folks half way. But I don't think they're ever going to try to get to a place where anyone knows or can know every single rule. I know that if they did, this game would begin to bore me.

Once you know everything, how do you have any fun at all?

nekooni wrote:

Voss wrote:
The new terrain rules definitely give me a headache. Mostly from wording (which wanders around the point a lot) and lack of consistency.

Try using just the bullet points. They contain the important stuff, only look at the full text when a question comes up that can't be answered by those.

Eh. I've already found problems with contradictions doing that. The heavy cover bullet points contradict (or at least muddle) the text, since they leave out which model is getting the benefit. The text says its the one you wouldn't logically expect. Or at least I wouldn't.

In general, I don't like the bullet points. Sometimes its just a sentence fragment that lacks precision. And they just flatly leave stuff out (see the flying bullet points, where the very important stuff about engagement range just doesn't come up _at all_)

Eh. I've already found problems with contradictions doing that. The heavy cover bullet points contradict (or at least muddle) the text, since they leave out which model is getting the benefit. The text says its the one you wouldn't logically expect. Or at least I wouldn't.

In general, I don't like the bullet points. The sentence fragments they decided to go with lack precision. And they just flatly leave stuff out (see the flying bullet points, where the very important stuff about engagement range just doesn't come up _at all_)

This is one of the reasons my group is waiting on the switch to 9th. My fear is a lot of people are going to look at the rules, then just say "meh" and use the bullets instead. Since you can't play properly with the bullets, there's going to be a lot of chaos in pick up games as you'll have some people who THINK they know the rules because they know the bullets, and the people who ACTUALLY READ all the real rules.

We're just going to hunker down in our little 4 man group and keep playing 8th for a bit until GW smooths all that out.

I to ofeel somewhat swamped by the sheer volume of things I am expected to buy and know to play.

Used to be codex + rulebook, then codex, rulebok and FAQ.

Now it's codex, rulebook, latest chapter approved, FAQ's for all the books, errata, white dwarf articles with rules in, whatever "PA" is, I see it referenced a lot...

I just feel like there's no way I can keep up with everything I need to play. I am resigned to not knowing what my opponent can do until I play them - I used to have almost every army, now it's just Orks and it's still too much to keep up with!

I just feel like there's no way I can keep up with everything I need to play. I am resigned to not knowing what my opponent can do until I play them - I used to have almost every army, now it's just Orks and it's still too much to keep up with!

Well, I think is a good decision to concentrate on one army atm.
The information gathered during the last days is a bit overwhelming as Galef said.