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Waiting for the supplement to check this, but wonder if you could combine heroic bearing WT with vox espiritum relic and throw an extra WT for your reiver LT or such for rites of battle. would be hilarious to take the midboard with 24" ob sec bubble for all core units. But this must not be the case.

Well this supplement is what we get, I like it's not OP and not total crap either. Maybe less SM this SM that BS from my mates when they get their codeces.

Heroic bearing and vox espiritum both state that they increase 3" to a maximum of 9" they don't stack

U02dah4 wrote:
They have a lot of A but don't really have any weapons worth speaking of that makes them a screen clearer.

Ah right okay. So I’ll give them a hammer to go after Elites and heroes you reckon?

I don't know if it's best but I'm going to try 9 with 1 fist and bolt rifles chumming around with a chaplin or Astorath. That should take a bit of shifting.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
They have a lot of A but don't really have any weapons worth speaking of that makes them a screen clearer.

Ah right okay. So I’ll give them a hammer to go after Elites and heroes you reckon?

If they could all have hammers great with just the sgt i'm not sure you will increase effectiveness enough. Of course if you have a few points left over there's no harm in it

Okay cool, thanks

While consuming the new supplement I want to try the visage of the dead relic straight away.

I have two ideas:
First is to use the relic with a captain with rites of war to get a unit that can be used to force score an objective. 2nd idea is to give it to my JP sang priest because he is anyway only for buffing, although I ölike him with teeth of terra too.

What do you think what would be your pick to use the combo? I used a reiver LT in similar role with ok success..

I started converting a new smash captain with a relic blade and the mask, pic as a teaser below.

Now I'm feeling that a jump pack, relic blade and storm shield is a nice go for the captain. Gonna try him as:

captain - jump pack - relic blade - storm shield
warlord: Rites of war, 2nd WT artisan of war
relics: Visage of the dead, 2nd relic: master-crafted weapon

feels quite pricey to lose, but atleast I think it looks cool

Given captjains already have a 4++ stormshields give them a lot less value now. I've been moving mine to combi meltas (5pts) or plasma pistols (free).it will probably be more effective than +1sv

2nd you can't take 2 warlord traits and two relics

The only way you can take 2 relics would be with the artisan of War warlord trait

that shield note is true.. 2+ save only handy on massed small arms fire in cover/no cover. wonder if inferno pistols could be worth it.

Xirax wrote:
that shield note is true.. 2+ save only handy on massed small arms fire in cover/no cover. wonder if inferno pistols could be worth it.

As pistols go value wise a free plasma beats a 5pt inferno.

The inferno also struggles with range on a DS. Where as a combi metal costs the same points has twice the range and boltgun shots in appropriate situations its also assault on the melta not pistol.

combi-melta is for sure the most comp choice now.. Really hard choice to remodel that model though, I like the looks how it turned.. maybe even too much... this is a tough one to put my fluff side away.. maybe if I can find bulky combi-melta bitz

U02dah4 wrote:

Xirax wrote:
that shield note is true.. 2+ save only handy on massed small arms fire in cover/no cover. wonder if inferno pistols could be worth it.

As pistols go value wise a free plasma beats a 5pt inferno.

The inferno also struggles with range on a DS. Where as a combi metal costs the same points has twice the range and boltgun shots in appropriate situations its also assault on the melta not pistol.

FYI Battlescribe has this wrong and the fusion pistol is free according to the codex. I'm not sure this changes anything but I thought it was worth pointing out.

I'm not sure it makes any difference because the primary consideration is range and 6" doesn't get to fire out of DS and both the others do.


Thats what I'm working on

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/794381.page#10998498

DC Intercessors question since we were just talking about them. Heard this the other day and wondering if someone with the book/rules can confirm - DC Intercessor Sergeants cannot take special-weapon upgrades outside of Pistols per RAW (if the unit takes all Chainswords)!!!?

This is terrible and wastes the units potential even further if true.

That is correct

The BA specific units are almost all in someway not that great

the new beta battle forge confirms that we can upgrade the sanguinary priest into chief apothecary. There were some doubts, so now it's certain. We have the best healer in adeptus astartes imho. Still need the confirmation through a faq that do we get savage echoes with the blood chalice ability, but I'm optimistic. Only real downside is that our crowded HQ section takes one slot for this..

Sad that Lib dread and mephy is restricted to sanguinary discipline, would have been great to use tome of malcador for a power from the SM discipline.

Has anyone else used redemptor dreads in BA lists?

Taking anything from that mess as confirmation might not be wise.

 Eldarain wrote:
Taking anything from that mess as confirmation might not be wise.

Well why would they have the option if not intentional. Skeptism when it's GW is natural yes, but maybe they are correct sometimes.

It could be. I've just seen reports of Dark Angels having access to GSC upgrades and errors of that nature so not in a particularly great state yet.

That thing is a mess and littered with errors

However to the point in question the rules are crystal clear that you can take a sanguinary priest as a cheif Apothecary.

The only limitation is you can't take one and corbulo

Unless a faq changes things by raw you do not get Savage echoes (but that bit is atleast grey because rai could well be different)

Again tome RAW you can't take from a second disipline. Although their is some grey rai arguments see long ymdc thread on the issue so that doesn't really make any difference that libby dread can't take it as you couldn't do that anyway

I'm not that sold on S.Priests - what makes them so good?
Being stuck with a chainsword is a huge disappointment imo, and their key buff is essentially only useful on turn 2 if you intend to move to the assault doctrine naturally anyway.

ressing dead bike, SG, blade vet, termie for free? you can always give the teeth of terra for melee punch. I like them personally, an auto-include for me.

Its not free your paying for a weak character unless it res's 3 termies/bladeguard you've probably made a loss.

It works better on camping armies but is not so great on an assault army that spreads out

What rule is it that it can res a dead model?
I cant see it.
It says it can heal a model D3 wounds. Thats it.
A model, so the model still as to be alive right
Which makes the strata to do it again very situational.
There has to be an other wounded model near te priest

Its a strategem in the sm codex that targets the apothecary keyword

U02dah4 wrote:
Its a strategem in the sm codex that targets the apothecary keyword

Pff i really don't like the need of 2 codexes, 2 sets of stratagem cards,...
Why don't they just make a codex for each army?

I never brought psychers to my battles, but i see many lists with lib dreads and mephiston.
But if i go trough the BA psychic powers... there are 2 powers usefull and they are self buff and then they have to be in combat.

How do you make psychers work for BA? Can someone help me with it?
The other powers seem so... underwelming.
I fight a lot against nids and thousand sons, they seem to have a lot more usefull spells.

Krull wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Its a strategem in the sm codex that targets the apothecary keyword

Pff i really don't like the need of 2 codexes, 2 sets of stratagem cards,...
Why don't they just make a codex for each army?

I never brought psychers to my battles, but i see many lists with lib dreads and mephiston.
But if i go trough the BA psychic powers... there are 2 powers usefull and they are self buff and then they have to be in combat.

How do you make psychers work for BA? Can someone help me with it?
The other powers seem so... underwelming.
I fight a lot against nids and thousand sons, they seem to have a lot more usefull spells.

Why would GW be okay with you buying just one codex when they can force you to buy two?

BA psychic powers are for buffing melee units, the self-buffs are great for Libby Dreads or Mephy, and Unleash Rage is great for buffing other squads.

Why would they be happy with you buying two when they can tack on mini expansions every 3 months.

The way I seeing libby dread is great for a 3rd or 4th character your getting a durable mobile beatstick that doesnt require cp for relics. But that is what it does and I am not sure personally that is the best way to go.

It can move 6 wings 12 and quickening reroll the charge meaning like DC it can potentialy charge T1 only not requiring CP at the expense of doing so less reliably


If I was taking a libby dread I would probably tac on coteaz aswell because once you've taken one psyker theirs not much penalty to taking a second

However I think your probably better off pumping those points into elites

Greetings folks.

Working on a firstborn jump pack captain build here for my Slamguinius model. He's built using a death mask helm, sanguinary guard armor, and a death company 2 handed thunder hammer with some minor modifications, as well as a holstered pistol. (I never went for the storm shield option, he was a fire and forget missile in most of 8th and would reliably kill something before dying to the crack back.)

That said, I've mostly settled on the core build, but am looking at some other options for relic and second warlord trait using the stratagem.

Core build is Captain with Jump Pack, inferno pistol, and thunder hammer with his Iron Halo built in. Warlord, so my regular warlord trait is artisan of war to give him a 2+ save to go along with his 4++ save, effectively netting him a 'free' storm shield.

So, first question is the standard relic I can give him. I'm strongly leaning toward the Visage of Death, as turning off Ob-Sec and making him -1 to hit in melee sounds fun, but, the Hammer of Baal is so, so good. No -1 to hit, AP:3, and 3 damage is just studly. Most games I'll likely go with the Hammer of Baal, but the Visage of Death is probably my favorite from a general utility standpoint, especially since this character wants to get stuck-in and wreck house. Opinions on this?

Secondly, the additional warlord trait for -1 CP Strat, Angel Exemplar. This one has several options and each has it's own merits.

The one I tend to think has the most utility is Gift of Foresight, since it frees up CP being spent on rerolls to help the captain be more dangerous and hopefully more durable, while still allowing for a CP to re-roll as well for a few particularly bad dice rolls.

Secondly is good ole Emperor's Sword from the core marine codex. Reroll charge rolls is huge, with +1 attack, and +1 strength means I don't care if you're toughness 8, I'm wounding you on 2's, barring you have some crazy to-wound roll cap like Dark Angels Deathwing. I like this one a lot, but I feel like it's more of a side-grade to Gift of Foresight, and with the CP I'll save on other re-rolls I can re-roll the charge roll. Still, it's worth considering for sure.

Thirdly is Speed of the Primarch. The simple option, but potentially the most useful, as I'll have five attacks hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's (usually) at AP: -3 and 3 damage against anything that manages to get the charge off on me. That said, the fight before you die stratagem (OIDDDE) will at least let me kill or severely hurt anything that does charge in and fight before/kill my Captain, but this way I potentially preserve my Captain by striking first before they swing on me. Of the four options presented here, this one is a very close second to Gift of Foresight, and likely the one I'll try next time I manage to play.

The fourth option is more of a "if I opt to use the Visage of Death relic" instead of the Hammer of Baal. I pick up Rites of War to make my Core choices & characters Ob-Sec. So I turn off your Ob-Sec within 3" and my model(s) around my Captain gain Ob-Sec if they don't already have it (Provided they're core). I see this getting good mileage with as objective oriented the missions are.

So, that's my thoughts/musings on that. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated and I thank you for reading if you've gotten this far.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Greetings folks.

Working on a firstborn jump pack captain build here for my Slamguinius model. He's built using a death mask helm, sanguinary guard armor, and a death company 2 handed thunder hammer with some minor modifications, as well as a holstered pistol. (I never went for the storm shield option, he was a fire and forget missile in most of 8th and would reliably kill something before dying to the crack back.)

That said, I've mostly settled on the core build, but am looking at some other options for relic and second warlord trait using the stratagem.

Core build is Captain with Jump Pack, inferno pistol, and thunder hammer with his Iron Halo built in. Warlord, so my regular warlord trait is artisan of war to give him a 2+ save to go along with his 4++ save, effectively netting him a 'free' storm shield.

So, first question is the standard relic I can give him. I'm strongly leaning toward the Visage of Death, as turning off Ob-Sec and making him -1 to hit in melee sounds fun, but, the Hammer of Baal is so, so good. No -1 to hit, AP:3, and 3 damage is just studly. Most games I'll likely go with the Hammer of Baal, but the Visage of Death is probably my favorite from a general utility standpoint, especially since this character wants to get stuck-in and wreck house. Opinions on this?

Secondly, the additional warlord trait for -1 CP Strat, Angel Exemplar. This one has several options and each has it's own merits.

The one I tend to think has the most utility is Gift of Foresight, since it frees up CP being spent on rerolls to help the captain be more dangerous and hopefully more durable, while still allowing for a CP to re-roll as well for a few particularly bad dice rolls.

Secondly is good ole Emperor's Sword from the core marine codex. Reroll charge rolls is huge, with +1 attack, and +1 strength means I don't care if you're toughness 8, I'm wounding you on 2's, barring you have some crazy to-wound roll cap like Dark Angels Deathwing. I like this one a lot, but I feel like it's more of a side-grade to Gift of Foresight, and with the CP I'll save on other re-rolls I can re-roll the charge roll. Still, it's worth considering for sure.

Thirdly is Speed of the Primarch. The simple option, but potentially the most useful, as I'll have five attacks hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's (usually) at AP: -3 and 3 damage against anything that manages to get the charge off on me. That said, the fight before you die stratagem (OIDDDE) will at least let me kill or severely hurt anything that does charge in and fight before/kill my Captain, but this way I potentially preserve my Captain by striking first before they swing on me. Of the four options presented here, this one is a very close second to Gift of Foresight, and likely the one I'll try next time I manage to play.

The fourth option is more of a "if I opt to use the Visage of Death relic" instead of the Hammer of Baal. I pick up Rites of War to make my Core choices & characters Ob-Sec. So I turn off your Ob-Sec within 3" and my model(s) around my Captain gain Ob-Sec if they don't already have it (Provided they're core). I see this getting good mileage with as objective oriented the missions are.

So, that's my thoughts/musings on that. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated and I thank you for reading if you've gotten this far.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Ok a few bits of feedback on this, always nice to see a smash captain :-)

Firstly are you planing on making him Deathcompany? I think the bonuses from it can really help with making a killer smasher.

Relic wise I really like the Mask but think it is best used with the WL Trait to give an aura of Obsec, combined these mean your character automatically steals any objective they move onto. With just the mask your lone character is still unlikely to capture objectives without help to up the numbers in your favour and taking both the Trait and Relic kinda removes alot of the "smash" from your captain.
If you've slashed out for a thunder hammer I think the relic is a good idea as its a big improvement, depending on what you want him to go after master crafting it instead for 4 Dam could be useful but only if you have a way of re-rolling hits.

I think you want the Stormshield on him (as he has a two handed weapon mounting a smaller shield on his arm or back can work well), wasting a WL trait or Relic slot to get what a 10pt item can give you is a big opportunity cost you are paying. If you still want to take the armour it's even better with the SS as you go to a 1+ save and can nicely tank AP0,-1,-2.

Warlord trait wise I think the two best options are Imperiums Sword for the Re-roll charge and extra attack/Str or Gift of Foresight for the extra reliability and survivability it bring - both together is boss!

Speed of the primarch is a trap, it says always strikes first which sounds great but it doesn't really work that way. The rare rules section of the rulebook explains how these things interact but basically it works as follows:

You charge - you get to hit first anyway, it has no effect.

You get charged - the enemy gets to choose one of their chargers to attack first then you get to choose your always strikes first dude - sounds wrong but thats how it is. Charging basically gives always strikes first in which case the player who's turn it is chooses the first combatant in the strikes first step of the combat phase.

It does have a small use for stopping always strikes last effects but that is pretty edge case.