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2020/07/28 03:49:50
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
I would argue that the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw vs Killa Klaw comparison is not as clear cut. The Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will be better in some scenarios but I think in general the Killa Klaw is the better choice, especially on a Big Mek in MA.
We will assume that they're both hitting on 2's and that they are both Goffs (obviously the lucky stikk has to be), we won't factor in any other buffs (eg Ghaz's aura). I won't factor in wounding into this, as they will be identical and the nature of the probability means we can apply it after the fact if we choose to.
The Killa Klaw will generate 0.972 hits per attack, the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will generate 1.161 hits per attack.
Against an armour save of 3+ this will scale down the Killa Klaw down to 0.647 and scale down the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw to 0.967. So the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will have 1.49 times the unsaved wounds of the Killa Klaw.
Against an armour save of 3+ this will scale down the Killa Klaw down to 0.810 and the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw won't scale down. So the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will have 1.43 times the unsaved wounds of the Killa Klaw.
Against an armour save of 4+ or an invulnerable save neither will scale down. So the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will have 1.19 times the unsaved wounds of the Killa Klaw.
So if you're fighting targets with wound characteristics of 1,2, and 4, the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw comes out ahead consistently.
However if we're fighting targets of wound charactersitics of 3, then the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will score half the kills and be far behind the Killa Klaw with ~0.6-0.75 times the kills. Against targets of wound characteristics 5 and 6 the the Killa Klaw will score 1/2 the kills while Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will score 1/3 the kills, this means that the Lucky Stikk will range in ~0.79-0.99 times the number of kills of the Killa Klaw.
Against vehicles and monsters, the Killa Klaw might tie with the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw but will tend to do more damage.
Against 2+ armour the Killa Klaw and Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw are almost tied, with the Kill Klaw being ahead by a trivial amount.
Against 3+ armour the Killa Klaw does 1.04 times the damage of the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw.
Against 4+ or an invulnerable save the Killa Klaw does 1.25 times the damage of the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw.
But this is factoring without additional buffs. If the Killa Klaw has access to re-rolls from Ghaz or Brutal but Kunning, then these numbers will jump up from "tied at worst" to consistently better but the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will still be ahead at killing Primaris. I would say there is value in the +1 to hit aura for characters but that aura has always felt niche and only made sense for spamming warbosses and painboys, which is a bit difficult in 9th. Furthermore if you're running Goffs you're already incentivised to take Ghaz, so I doubt there will be many good targets for it.
TedNugent wrote: @Jidmah, Skarboyz only changes your strength to 5, which the Nob already has. You shouldn't have been wounding on 2's against T4.
Huh, bummer. That would actually have made that stratagem somewhat useful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quackzo wrote: I would say there is value in the +1 to hit aura for characters but that aura has always felt niche and only made sense for spamming warbosses and painboys, which is a bit difficult in 9th. Furthermore if you're running Goffs you're already incentivised to take Ghaz, so I doubt there will be many good targets for it.
Banner nobs and weird boyz also benefit from the aura, as does Makari, and all of them get extra attacks from Thrakka. In general, you are probably right, but you could always bring both relics
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 05:46:13
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/07/28 10:41:49
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
the_scotsman wrote: Having played a bunch of games using the new tournament pack, this is what I'm going to be testing for Orks in 9th:
Goffs Battalion
HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka 300pts
HQ: Makari 65pts
HQ: Big Mek with KFF 75pts
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 26x Shootas, 3x Big Shootas 15, Kombirokkit Nob 10
Elites: Nob with Waagh Banner and Klaw 95 (Relic: Da Killa Klaw)
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Meks, KFF, Ghaz and Banner Nob roll up into the middle of the board with the Boyz. Skrapjet, Dragsta, Deffcopta, Boomers, Burna Bommer etc prioritize hitting enemy hard targets that have the potential to wipe out lots of boyz, prioritizing Blasts for obvious reasons. Kommandos, Meks, and mobile elements get on top of objectives and do their damnedest to be obnoxious and make the enemy consider diverting their firepower (e.g. a kommando unit starting to perform Repair Teleport Homer behind a piece of obscuring terrain - you could divert your ignores LOS blast weapon to wipe them out, but you don't get to shoot it at the boyz then).
Meks can perform actions while still repairing vehicles, so mission secondaries that involve actions are very good for me, and I have good options between Raise the Banners High and Repair Teleport Homer. Grind them Down is a good cheeky one to take if I want to make it even more painful for my opponent to focus their firepower optimally. Domination seems like the no-brainer secondary I'd take almost every game - I'm here to control the board with this list.
Very solid list and similar to the one I was planning for Ghaz. Just one question why your KFF costs 75 points ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also why not saw? For the same price you are certain to slain a primary for every W
Automatically Appended Next Post: And at last, would you consider a Weirboy for when Ghaz gonna get the supreme commander rule ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/28 10:44:55
2020/07/28 10:55:59
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
For Saga. Which is overceded by CA. Once GW gets around fixing CA it will be 80 pts. But until then you use most up to date version of most up to date book which is CA.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/07/28 11:02:11
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Quackzo wrote: I would argue that the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw vs Killa Klaw comparison is not as clear cut. The Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will be better in some scenarios but I think in general the Killa Klaw is the better choice, especially on a Big Mek in MA.
We will assume that they're both hitting on 2's and that they are both Goffs (obviously the lucky stikk has to be), we won't factor in any other buffs (eg Ghaz's aura). I won't factor in wounding into this, as they will be identical and the nature of the probability means we can apply it after the fact if we choose to.
The Killa Klaw will generate 0.972 hits per attack, the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will generate 1.161 hits per attack.
Against an armour save of 3+ this will scale down the Killa Klaw down to 0.647 and scale down the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw to 0.967. So the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will have 1.49 times the unsaved wounds of the Killa Klaw.
Against an armour save of 3+ this will scale down the Killa Klaw down to 0.810 and the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw won't scale down. So the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will have 1.43 times the unsaved wounds of the Killa Klaw.
Against an armour save of 4+ or an invulnerable save neither will scale down. So the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will have 1.19 times the unsaved wounds of the Killa Klaw.
So if you're fighting targets with wound characteristics of 1,2, and 4, the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw comes out ahead consistently.
However if we're fighting targets of wound charactersitics of 3, then the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will score half the kills and be far behind the Killa Klaw with ~0.6-0.75 times the kills. Against targets of wound characteristics 5 and 6 the the Killa Klaw will score 1/2 the kills while Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will score 1/3 the kills, this means that the Lucky Stikk will range in ~0.79-0.99 times the number of kills of the Killa Klaw.
Against vehicles and monsters, the Killa Klaw might tie with the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw but will tend to do more damage.
Against 2+ armour the Killa Klaw and Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw are almost tied, with the Kill Klaw being ahead by a trivial amount.
Against 3+ armour the Killa Klaw does 1.04 times the damage of the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw.
Against 4+ or an invulnerable save the Killa Klaw does 1.25 times the damage of the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw.
But this is factoring without additional buffs. If the Killa Klaw has access to re-rolls from Ghaz or Brutal but Kunning, then these numbers will jump up from "tied at worst" to consistently better but the Lucky Stikk + Kill Saw will still be ahead at killing Primaris. I would say there is value in the +1 to hit aura for characters but that aura has always felt niche and only made sense for spamming warbosses and painboys, which is a bit difficult in 9th. Furthermore if you're running Goffs you're already incentivised to take Ghaz, so I doubt there will be many good targets for it.
I mostly do it because the killa klaw on painboy makes both characters a viable threat whereas lukky stick on painboy isn’t as big of a threat.
But he’s it appears the killsaw lukky stock is only better at killing primarus... which thankfully are fairly common
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: For Saga. Which is overceded by CA. Once GW gets around fixing CA it will be 80 pts. But until then you use most up to date version of most up to date book which is CA.
That’s the way I see it....
The munatorium is the current and technically only 9th points.
There is a few units like this
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 11:05:58
2020/07/28 11:12:16
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
the_scotsman wrote: Having played a bunch of games using the new tournament pack, this is what I'm going to be testing for Orks in 9th:
Goffs Battalion
HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka 300pts
HQ: Makari 65pts
HQ: Big Mek with KFF 75pts
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 26x Shootas, 3x Big Shootas 15, Kombirokkit Nob 10
Elites: Nob with Waagh Banner and Klaw 95 (Relic: Da Killa Klaw)
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Meks, KFF, Ghaz and Banner Nob roll up into the middle of the board with the Boyz. Skrapjet, Dragsta, Deffcopta, Boomers, Burna Bommer etc prioritize hitting enemy hard targets that have the potential to wipe out lots of boyz, prioritizing Blasts for obvious reasons. Kommandos, Meks, and mobile elements get on top of objectives and do their damnedest to be obnoxious and make the enemy consider diverting their firepower (e.g. a kommando unit starting to perform Repair Teleport Homer behind a piece of obscuring terrain - you could divert your ignores LOS blast weapon to wipe them out, but you don't get to shoot it at the boyz then).
Meks can perform actions while still repairing vehicles, so mission secondaries that involve actions are very good for me, and I have good options between Raise the Banners High and Repair Teleport Homer. Grind them Down is a good cheeky one to take if I want to make it even more painful for my opponent to focus their firepower optimally. Domination seems like the no-brainer secondary I'd take almost every game - I'm here to control the board with this list.
Very solid list and similar to the one I was planning for Ghaz. Just one question why your KFF costs 75 points ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also why not saw? For the same price you are certain to slain a primary for every W
Automatically Appended Next Post: And at last, would you consider a Weirboy for when Ghaz gonna get the supreme commander rule ?
75 because I'm going off the FAQ they just now put out. It's a 5pt difference so, shrug.
Klaw over Saw because that's what I have nobz holding. My ork army predates the existence of killsaws as a separate item. I feel 10pt klaws is a wonderful mercy for the orks in 9th and I'm glad to be able to field my many power klaw models again without feeling stupid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 11:12:53
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/07/28 11:24:51
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
tneva82 wrote: For Saga. Which is overceded by CA. Once GW gets around fixing CA it will be 80 pts. But until then you use most up to date version of most up to date book which is CA.
There is literally no basis to assume this beyond pure speculation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 11:24:59
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/07/28 11:31:17
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
the_scotsman wrote: Having played a bunch of games using the new tournament pack, this is what I'm going to be testing for Orks in 9th:
Goffs Battalion
HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka 300pts
HQ: Makari 65pts
HQ: Big Mek with KFF 75pts
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 26x Shootas, 3x Big Shootas 15, Kombirokkit Nob 10
Elites: Nob with Waagh Banner and Klaw 95 (Relic: Da Killa Klaw)
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Meks, KFF, Ghaz and Banner Nob roll up into the middle of the board with the Boyz. Skrapjet, Dragsta, Deffcopta, Boomers, Burna Bommer etc prioritize hitting enemy hard targets that have the potential to wipe out lots of boyz, prioritizing Blasts for obvious reasons. Kommandos, Meks, and mobile elements get on top of objectives and do their damnedest to be obnoxious and make the enemy consider diverting their firepower (e.g. a kommando unit starting to perform Repair Teleport Homer behind a piece of obscuring terrain - you could divert your ignores LOS blast weapon to wipe them out, but you don't get to shoot it at the boyz then).
Meks can perform actions while still repairing vehicles, so mission secondaries that involve actions are very good for me, and I have good options between Raise the Banners High and Repair Teleport Homer. Grind them Down is a good cheeky one to take if I want to make it even more painful for my opponent to focus their firepower optimally. Domination seems like the no-brainer secondary I'd take almost every game - I'm here to control the board with this list.
Very solid list and similar to the one I was planning for Ghaz. Just one question why your KFF costs 75 points ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also why not saw? For the same price you are certain to slain a primary for every W
Automatically Appended Next Post: And at last, would you consider a Weirboy for when Ghaz gonna get the supreme commander rule ?
75 because I'm going off the FAQ they just now put out. It's a 5pt difference so, shrug.
Klaw over Saw because that's what I have nobz holding. My ork army predates the existence of killsaws as a separate item. I feel 10pt klaws is a wonderful mercy for the orks in 9th and I'm glad to be able to field my many power klaw models again without feeling stupid.
Same here klaw are back with a vengeance.
Can't find that price anywhere in the newer Orks faq. I must be blind.
One thing I wonder is why everyone prefer Makari over a painboy, would Medi squig augment the resilience of Ghaz substantially ?
2020/07/28 11:38:43
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Painboy doesnt give Ghaz the FNP, Makari does. Makari also is kinda full of shenanigans with that 2++ and being infantry.
Imo if you run enough infantry you should have a painboy and makari, makari wont be able to cover everything and Goffs dont have a baked in invul so any extra durability helps a lot. Painboy is only really needed T2-3 when your faction splits a bit to cover objectives so T1-2 he can heal Ghaz.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 11:39:55
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/28 11:43:18
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: Painboy doesnt give Ghaz the FNP, Makari does.
Makari also is kinda full of shenanigans with that 2++ and being infantry.
Imo if you run enough infantry you should have a painboy and makari, makari wont be able to cover everything and Goffs dont have a baked in invul so any extra durability helps a lot. Painboy is only really needed T2-3 when your faction splits a bit to cover objectives so T1-2 he can heal Ghaz.
Makari's aura also is 6" instead of 3" which makes a huge difference. Still not a fan of 6+++ saves as they are extremely likely to do nothing over the course of a game. The averages people are calculating are misleading, variance is a bitch.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/07/28 11:47:41
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
My only beef about makari is he takes an HQ slot, i really wish he was slotless and just required Ghaz to be taken (because you can only take him in a non-goff if you have Ghaz and why would you run Goff w/o Ghaz...) HQ slots are a hot commodity suddenly. Unless im going mono-battalion i really dont like using battalions now, the troop tax is painful this time around. Upside about mono-battalion is now battalions give 0-6 elites...for some reason... which has surprisingly been a boon for goff lists because man we want nobs and more nobs now lol. Even in Goffs, i dont like running more than 2 max squads. So many points....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 11:48:37
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/28 11:58:36
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
the_scotsman wrote: Having played a bunch of games using the new tournament pack, this is what I'm going to be testing for Orks in 9th:
Goffs Battalion
HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka 300pts
HQ: Makari 65pts
HQ: Big Mek with KFF 75pts
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 29x Sluggas, Klaw Nob 10
Troops: 30x Ork Boyz 240 with 26x Shootas, 3x Big Shootas 15, Kombirokkit Nob 10
Elites: Nob with Waagh Banner and Klaw 95 (Relic: Da Killa Klaw)
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Mek 30
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Elites: Kommandos x5 45 with Big Choppa Nob 5
Meks, KFF, Ghaz and Banner Nob roll up into the middle of the board with the Boyz. Skrapjet, Dragsta, Deffcopta, Boomers, Burna Bommer etc prioritize hitting enemy hard targets that have the potential to wipe out lots of boyz, prioritizing Blasts for obvious reasons. Kommandos, Meks, and mobile elements get on top of objectives and do their damnedest to be obnoxious and make the enemy consider diverting their firepower (e.g. a kommando unit starting to perform Repair Teleport Homer behind a piece of obscuring terrain - you could divert your ignores LOS blast weapon to wipe them out, but you don't get to shoot it at the boyz then).
Meks can perform actions while still repairing vehicles, so mission secondaries that involve actions are very good for me, and I have good options between Raise the Banners High and Repair Teleport Homer. Grind them Down is a good cheeky one to take if I want to make it even more painful for my opponent to focus their firepower optimally. Domination seems like the no-brainer secondary I'd take almost every game - I'm here to control the board with this list.
Very solid list and similar to the one I was planning for Ghaz. Just one question why your KFF costs 75 points ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also why not saw? For the same price you are certain to slain a primary for every W
Automatically Appended Next Post: And at last, would you consider a Weirboy for when Ghaz gonna get the supreme commander rule ?
75 because I'm going off the FAQ they just now put out. It's a 5pt difference so, shrug.
Klaw over Saw because that's what I have nobz holding. My ork army predates the existence of killsaws as a separate item. I feel 10pt klaws is a wonderful mercy for the orks in 9th and I'm glad to be able to field my many power klaw models again without feeling stupid.
Same here klaw are back with a vengeance.
Can't find that price anywhere in the newer Orks faq. I must be blind.
One thing I wonder is why everyone prefer Makari over a painboy, would Medi squig augment the resilience of Ghaz substantially ?
He's faster with Keep Up, he's got a 6" range, he gives ghazzy the 6++, and he's got a 2+ invuln. Given that the KFF and Painboy are absolutely the 2 units I expect to get focused first by snipers, having one of them be functionally invincible is a pretty nice bonus.
Also, generally, I mind losing the KFF early a little less, because nothing replaces the 6+FNP, but Cover vs AP- effectively replaces the 5++.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/07/28 12:12:21
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Looking at the other points values in the Saga errata (meaning the SW stuff), they were all "updated" to the 8th point values so I'm 99% correct that the KFF price -is not- 75 as stated there. Otherwise SW would be overpaying in comparison to literally every other space marine for a lot of their wargear that was changed to 0 as it unique to the unit in question (or just reduced as the unit itself went up).
It feels silly of GW to even include these points when 9th is already here but I guess they half-finished the errata long ago and didn't get around to publishing it until now?
2020/07/28 12:28:24
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Battalions always gave 6 elite slots, even start of 8th ed. But if you mainly play ork, it was not relevant in 8th because we didn't need much elites (i don't think we do much this time around either)
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2020/07/28 12:49:37
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
PiñaColada wrote: Looking at the other points values in the Saga errata (meaning the SW stuff), they were all "updated" to the 8th point values so I'm 99% correct that the KFF price -is not- 75 as stated there. Otherwise SW would be overpaying in comparison to literally every other space marine for a lot of their wargear that was changed to 0 as it unique to the unit in question (or just reduced as the unit itself went up).
It feels silly of GW to even include these points when 9th is already here but I guess they half-finished the errata long ago and didn't get around to publishing it until now?
Yep. This was supposed to come originally in april. Nor is there any real reason to even remove it. It doesn't harm, helps other and removing is extra work.
9e KFF price will be 80. If you want to play with intention rather than current RAW then use 80.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 12:50:00
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/07/28 12:54:50
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
tneva82 wrote: For Saga. Which is overceded by CA. Once GW gets around fixing CA it will be 80 pts. But until then you use most up to date version of most up to date book which is CA.
There is literally no basis to assume this beyond pure speculation.
There is literally no point costs in any other pa book that takes precedent over chapter approved
I agree the 80 pt cost is speculation...
Other thing painboy has over makari is elite slot not as contested as hq...
also a lot less shenanigans with out that 3in close to ghaz nonsense and he can’t heal other characters
Also the painboy claw tends to do more damage although makari is more survivable...
But my biggest issue is the 6+ fnp is largely negated with a single medi squig...
However once ghaz gets supreme commander and they allot makari in somehow since he needs to be the same detachment I’ll switch makati in for painboy
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/28 13:56:21
2020/07/28 13:39:59
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
My current Ork list in progress. Did not feel right to not use Ghaz and he only really does his best in a Goff detachment. Makari now can fill the HQ hole in grot mob detachment as he will not lose the Goff clan by being in there and could still ride in Goff battlewagons, where a big mek could not.
2 killy Battlewagons with a 10 man boy squad and minimum Killsaw meganob unit inside, one gains 5++ from Forktress, other gets it from big mek inside with faqKFF rule. I have seen alot of battle reports where the enemy has single models left in 2-3 units just cowering in obscuring terrain scoring, the lobbas give some answer to this (semi poor one). Kommandos for more objective play. Less killy Boyz unit in Trukk.
Smasha guns just feel right to me haha. Thought about Tankbustas in chinork and that is really punchy, but so fragile and chinork expected lifespan as is in the rules are highly uncertain.
Burna bombers were also very highly considered. I have seen a few matches with them and they definitely have a huge psychological role in about everything your opponent does, but I am not thrilled about automatically giving out so many secondary points when they crash and they dont seem to really do much outside of crashing.
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP++
<Goffs>
Ghazghkull Thraka [300pts]: Warlord
Big Mek w/KFF [80pts] <Super Cybork>
Boyz [95pts]: 9x Boy W/Slugga, Nob: Killsaw x2
Boyz [95pts]: 9x Boy W/Slugga, Nob: Killsaw x2
Boyz [85pts]: 9x Ork Boy W/Shoota, Nob: Big Choppa
Kommandos [55pts] Nob: Power Klaw
Kommandos [55pts] Nob: Power Klaw
Meganobz [120pts] Killsaws (Pair)
Meganobz [120pts] Killsaws (Pair)
Painboy [65pts]: Power Klaw
It’s still kinda silly but ghaz and makari needs to be in same detachment not just army
Which just made me realize a supreme command detachment doesn’t allow ghaz to take makari even if ghaz gets the supreme command keyword... honestly Gw really doesn’t think anything thru when they designed orks..
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/28 13:57:35
2020/07/28 14:11:35
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
I'm starting to wonder if tankbustas might be back in vogue. If there is a lot of T8 on the table going forward, smasha guns are going to struggle handling them.
That said all of the normal issues with tankbustas exist: they're fragile, expensive, and you need some way of deploying them.
2020/07/28 14:53:04
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
heyo... first off wow i am glad GW backpeddled on the mekshop. Great effort from the community The outrage seemed to be enourmous (judging from all the Facebook comments and dislikes)
so i had my first 9th game yesterday
heres my list (1500):
Spoiler:
mek with kff (warlord) warbossbiker with killaklaw
opponent played eldar (custom traits, +1 cover save (+12") and more range on shurikens) he got two warlocks, couple of avengers MSU, 5 wraithblades, shiningspears, 3 vypers, 3 warwalkers and two falcons
gotta say i am impressed with the buggys. sjd really pulled his weight, especially with the fire&fade strat. KBB are also awesome, the burning highway is a blast! Its a very versaitaile buggy capable of dealing with most enemy units. They are a nusiance and a big threat to multiple things, are fast enough to grab objectives and resiliant enough to not die instantly. (DS 6++ FTW)
I wasnt sure about the gretchin, was about to field a vanguard instead of an battallion... but damn was i wrong... they still feel overpriced but they werent really shot at, mainly because the buggys, plane and the odd last wounds left on a wagon or smashas, temped the opponent to ignore them. so they could sit on objectives relativly undisturbed. But keep in mind they were never soley on the objectives (beside the backfield one) so as long as they dont present a greater thread they get mostly ignored (and you still have to focus fire em a bit since even one gretchin could potentially hold/contest an objective) overall two or three units still have their purpose in an ork army. Btw screening is kinda useless with the new coherancy rules, so no more denying entire quarters with 10 gretchin
burna and smashas performed as expected and the burnas bombs and plingy firepower doesnt seem so wasted when shooting chaff off an objective (zoomed over enemy first turn - could have exploded him on top of 80% of the enemy force but didnt because it felt meh exploiting a mistake so early on - bombed and shot chaff instead and left (while dropping the last bomb) the board on turn 2, came back on three and strat-exploded on something i didnt wanted to be there anymore)
kommandoz didnt really play a role, but there is low cost objective grabbing and quarter holding potential in there
Gunwagon was meh as far as damage output goes but its main use is beeing a firemagnet anyway. somehow the thread of 4d6 shots with moar dakka seems to dominate opponents mind and behavior
warkopta is really great for clearing chaff and char hunting (thought the kopta wiffed its shooting for me^^) and the tankbustaz are always useful.
MANZ with the harder strat hit like gork himself.. deleted 3 vypers in one go with wounds to spare.
i've picked the follow me ladz trait for the extra CP, but as soon as deployment started i wished for kunning but brutal to redeploy d3 units. i think that will be THE WARLORDTRAIT for us.
ALL for ALL i think we are in a good spot... atleast finally beeing able to play around with different strats was soooo much fun! no more squeezing for every last bit of CP to boringly double tap the SSAG with more dakka round for round... it felt like such an relief!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/07/28 14:58:08
2020/07/28 15:01:42
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Emicrania wrote: I think nobody realize how impactful the eradicators and the new bikes will be untill those f*****s paint them and we can play against them.
I just laugh how people are trying to down play them.
I think every goon hammer list with every chapter included one or more squads.
2020/07/28 15:16:48
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Any marine player w/o an eradicator squad is a moron right now.
Sub100pt unit that DELETES anything short of a Knight with marine reroll shenanigans and average luck, and even a Knight could get 1shotted if lucky enough.
Guarantee theyre going to basically stop us from using anything bigger than a buggy, buggies at least are cheap enough to not feel when a 100pt unit blows it up (also they'd have to mega overkill it or reduce to 3shots)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/28 15:19:46
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Dendarien wrote: I'm starting to wonder if tankbustas might be back in vogue. If there is a lot of T8 on the table going forward, smasha guns are going to struggle handling them.
That said all of the normal issues with tankbustas exist: they're fragile, expensive, and you need some way of deploying them.
Chinorks!!!
Open topped
Fast movement gets you where you need to be
And gives even more dakka
But once it’s popped your stuck being tankbustas again
But if the meta goes all t8 plus maybe boomboys might be better....
I honestly think we will see a lot of fast infantry and transports more then land raiders and heavy tanks
2020/07/28 15:43:06
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: Any marine player w/o an eradicator squad is a moron right now.
Sub100pt unit that DELETES anything short of a Knight with marine reroll shenanigans and average luck, and even a Knight could get 1shotted if lucky enough.
Guarantee theyre going to basically stop us from using anything bigger than a buggy, buggies at least are cheap enough to not feel when a 100pt unit blows it up (also they'd have to mega overkill it or reduce to 3shots)
Probably because suicide short range antitank units are not a new thing? They're 120pts with 6 melta shots, right? And presumably you're getting them one of those flying ford F-150s so they don't get shot if you don't get first turn.
6 Harlequins with melta pistols = 114 points, go in an 80pts transport with Fly (AND open topped, so they don't even have to get out and you have to kill their stupid transport before you kill them) and they can auto-advance something like 24" and shoot with full ballistic skill.
You can argue "oh, well, they're safer getting out of the transport and shooting from 24" with rerolls instead of the melta damage rule" or "oh, it's easier to screen a flying harlequin thingy 6" away than it is to screen a footslogging unit from getting 24" away" but the fact of the matter remains that extreme-AP low volume of fire strength 8 antitank units have been in the game for ages and haven't prevented everyone from taking vehicles that cost more than 100pts.
Dendarien wrote: I'm starting to wonder if tankbustas might be back in vogue. If there is a lot of T8 on the table going forward, smasha guns are going to struggle handling them.
That said all of the normal issues with tankbustas exist: they're fragile, expensive, and you need some way of deploying them.
Chinorks!!!
Open topped
Fast movement gets you where you need to be
And gives even more dakka
But once it’s popped your stuck being tankbustas again
But if the meta goes all t8 plus maybe boomboys might be better....
I honestly think we will see a lot of fast infantry and transports more then land raiders and heavy tanks
or if chinorks get nuked from orbit.
Which they will. Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Aircraft Keyword+Open Topped Transport was not intentional on GW's part yall. i would not run out and buy 10 of these things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 15:43:59
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/07/28 15:57:51
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
9500p fullpaint orks ready to krump!