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Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 Vineheart01 wrote:
thats the issue, per its own wording it does trigger
All it checks is after its done attacking, if any attacks made by this model failed to reach the damage step then it makes 1 more attack for each.

The issue mostly revolves around 40k not having mount rules, like AoS, where the mount is NOT the same as "this model" and most things dont affect it.
It shouldnt trigger, but it does right now. And will most likely get faq'd into an even more confusing description so we just accept it like the Psychic Awakening Holy Order faq of "we treat it this way because otherwise it breaks half the game" and ignore the problem.


...well at the minute i am treating it as bbk gives the MODEL extra attacks without restriction to a particular weapon and i allocate those attacks to weapons accordingly adhering to
"If a unit attacks with multiple weapons, all attacks made with weapons that have the same profile must be resolved before resolving attacks with the next." rule.

so can't use the killchoppa - use squigosaurus - and go back and use killchoppa again.
i resolve squigosaurus first and put the extra attacks to one side
resolve killchoppa and put the extra attacks to one side
take the extra attacks from both and put them into killchoppa

the wording of BBK does say
Each time this WARLORD fights, if all of its attacks target one enemy unit, after resolving all of those attacks, it can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the Inflict Damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.


after resolving all of those attacks - so you have to resolve BBK attacks after all your other attacks are resolved this means putting all BBK attacks into the last melee weapon you used to be compliant with the multi weapon core rule.

BBK only triggers if you have 1 target and i haven't seen anything anywhere yet that says addional attacks generated by the attack sequence have to be with the same weapon.......




how bbk works with goffs isn't just not clear, it's just not even covered.

i just go with the RAI goffs additional hits don't generate BBK attacks.
and
BBK attacks don't generate goffs addional hits


This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/08/18 23:51:52


SMASH  
   
Made in us
Faithful Squig Companion



Aloha, Oregon

Hey all - I've been toying with stompa lists for a few hours since I finally put mine back together after years spent in pieces. Not looking to shatter the tourney meta just krump beakies and drink grog.

List is comprised only of models I actually own or can reasonably proxy (i.e. Boyz for snaggas/kommandos/stormboyz)

Spoiler:
++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment -3CP (Orks 2021) [42 PL, -1CP, 850pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Shared Faction Bonus [2CP]

+ Lord of War +

Kustom Stompa [42 PL, 850pts]: Belly Gun
. Deffkannon, Supa-Gatler & Supa-Rokkits
. Mega-Choppa & Twin Big Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Orks 2021) [58 PL, 8CP, 1,150pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Clan Kultur: Goffs

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype

+ No Force Org Slot +

Nob on Smasha Squig [4 PL, -2CP, 65pts]: 3. 'Ard as Nails, Beasthide Mantle, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz

Nob on Smasha Squig [4 PL, -2CP, 65pts]: Headwoppa's Killchoppa, Proper Killy, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz

+ HQ +

Big Mek in Mega Armour [7 PL, 130pts]: Extra-Kustom Weapon, Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-Blasta

Boss Zagstruk [6 PL, 110pts]

Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, 115pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Warlord

+ Troops +

Beast Snagga Boyz [5 PL, 115pts]
. 8x Beast Snagga Boy: 8x Choppa, 8x Slugga
. Beast Snagga Boy w/ Thump Gun: Thump Gun
. Beast Snagga Nob

Beast Snagga Boyz [5 PL, 115pts]
. 8x Beast Snagga Boy: 8x Choppa, 8x Slugga
. Beast Snagga Boy w/ Thump Gun: Thump Gun
. Beast Snagga Nob

Beast Snagga Boyz [5 PL, 115pts]
. 8x Beast Snagga Boy: 8x Choppa, 8x Slugga
. Beast Snagga Boy w/ Thump Gun: Thump Gun
. Beast Snagga Nob

+ Fast Attack +

Squighog Boyz [4 PL, 80pts]: Bomb Squig
. 3x Squighog Boy: 3x Saddlegit Weapons, 3x Squighog Jaws, 3x Stikka

Stormboyz [6 PL, 120pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 9x Stormboy: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [6 PL, 120pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 9x Stormboy: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs

++ Total: [100 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


My roommate will probably be playing either DG or TS, slight chance he breaks out his triple lord of skulls/khorne zerker list for me as well.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/18 23:57:59


 Nurglitch wrote:
Roboute Guilliman was dead for most of his career. He got better.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Has anyone else noticed how utterly crap Lootas still are?

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Bunch of ork lists with the new codex in goonhammer Competitive Innovation.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-slamtastic-summer-pt-2/

Lot of Squgbuggies, Dakkajets, Freebootas but also interesting note about Ghazzy + triplle Killtank list or Evil sunz infantry mix list.

It seems our gakky new codex makes us super strong in various ways. Which seems pretty interesting!

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in de
Squishy Squig




Germany

 Tomsug wrote:
Bunch of ork lists with the new codex in goonhammer Competitive Innovation.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-slamtastic-summer-pt-2/

Lot of Squgbuggies, Dakkajets, Freebootas but also interesting note about Ghazzy + triplle Killtank list or Evil sunz infantry mix list.

It seems our gakky new codex makes us super strong in various ways. Which seems pretty interesting!


Cool lists!
I found the vod of the stream mentioned in the description of the first list here if somebody wants to watch it
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





 Tomsug wrote:
Bunch of ork lists with the new codex in goonhammer Competitive Innovation.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-slamtastic-summer-pt-2/

Lot of Squgbuggies, Dakkajets, Freebootas but also interesting note about Ghazzy + triplle Killtank list or Evil sunz infantry mix list.

It seems our gakky new codex makes us super strong in various ways. Which seems pretty interesting!


Triple killtanks with Ghaz is a curious one. Obviously the speedwaagh is great for pumping up the ap of the shoota variants. Though they don't get to benefit from the foot waagh. Makes me wonder if they were goff tanks to get exploding 6s in combat and be pushed up to the rather handy str 10 first round of combat.

Honestly do any of the klans work particularly well with the killtanks? I adore them and would love for them to be viable.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Blood axes work with kill tanks.

you can redeploy them with the warlord trait, and granting cover at range if you bring all 3.
   
Made in eu
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Afrodactyl wrote:
What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.


I think it's a big nope in the vast majority of cases. It's just better to bite the bullet of paying 3 CP for the outrider detachment to get the extra slots to run the singles you need. I mean you can argue that the scrapjets benefit the most since they only need to be within half of an inch of one that makes it into combat to get their attacks now, but with the loss of korkscrew, you actually don't want scrapjets in CC immediately most of the time and having a unit of 2-3 makes getting into certain parts of the board that much more tricky. Also, having a unit not only incurs the morale issue you mentioned, but more importantly means that stuff like melta becomes way more effective in inflicting overkill since units like Eradicators get to maximize their shots/abilities rather than if they had to split their fire between several units.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





 Afrodactyl wrote:
What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.


With the changes to how kustom jobs work I can't really say there's a reason to take massive squads. Before it was a case of pay 1CP and up to 3 scrapjets can fight in CC twice.

Now? Well I don't think i'd take more than 2, and in most situations I'd want to take 2 units of 1. Unless you had a super specific plan in mind regarding stratagems taking 3 seems to offer no real benefits.
   
Made in eu
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

 Grimskul wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.


I think it's a big nope in the vast majority of cases. It's just better to bite the bullet of paying 3 CP for the outrider detachment to get the extra slots to run the singles you need. I mean you can argue that the scrapjets benefit the most since they only need to be within half of an inch of one that makes it into combat to get their attacks now, but with the loss of korkscrew, you actually don't want scrapjets in CC immediately most of the time and having a unit of 2-3 makes getting into certain parts of the board that much more tricky. Also, having a unit not only incurs the morale issue you mentioned, but more importantly means that stuff like melta becomes way more effective in inflicting overkill since units like Eradicators get to maximize their shots/abilities rather than if they had to split their fire between several units.


Kind of as I thought. I keep seeing lists pop up with multiple buggies per slot and was wondering if there was something I was missing.

What kind of lists are people running at the moment? I know it's early days yet, but I feel like other than bikers, smasha guns and squig units, there haven't been enormous shake ups from last edition in the lists that we're seeing.


cody.d. wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.


With the changes to how kustom jobs work I can't really say there's a reason to take massive squads. Before it was a case of pay 1CP and up to 3 scrapjets can fight in CC twice.

Now? Well I don't think i'd take more than 2, and in most situations I'd want to take 2 units of 1. Unless you had a super specific plan in mind regarding stratagems taking 3 seems to offer no real benefits.


Nothing too crazy from me, just two individual scrapjects and two individual snazzwagons. I'm just very surprised to see all these GT lists popping up with squads of them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/20 02:41:50


 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





I still think that there's one vital piece of the ork puzzle missing. And in all likleyhood that's going to be in the octarius war book. Maybe there'll be speedfreeks based big meks, giving some buff that makes big units of buggies enticing.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

willing to bet theres more units they didnt include.
Beastsnagga is our primaris, and theres a lot of weird gaps right now in doing that. We may not get them as rapid as marines but i suspect a wave2 at some point.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Afrodactyl wrote:
What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.


IMO that heavily depends on the buggy. For example, the squig buggy doesn't need LoS and doesn't need to get too close to be able to hit stuff. You can easily get away with sitting full units of them in your backfield, as we see in many tournament lists. The SJD still works reasonably well in pairs, only when you bump them up to 3 you get problems finding good spots to deep strike them.

For KBB and scrapjet you can probably manage to get a single unit of 3 across the board, as you will probably losing one or two of them before it matter. As for the boomdakka snazzwagon I really don't see a reason to run more than one of it, as with the nerfed burna bottles its primary role seems to be squatting on objectives, and having more than one doesn't really matter for that purpose.

That said, it heavily depends on your boards. Tournament tables tend to be mostly empty, so you have no problems putting that many buggies in your deployment zone. But if you have scenic boards, are playing on the more beautiful TTS boards that aren't just brown "L"s or are just using more terrain in general, you might find yourself forced to put your units of 3 into reserves.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

 Afrodactyl wrote:
What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.


That is one of the hottest questions. Needs more games to try. But if you look on the goonhammer lists and other previously spotted you see that Squigbuggies are mostly prefered as a single or double model units (bigger flexibility I guess?) and Scrapjets mostly in full squad of 3 - for sweet 3 x D3 MW on 4+ I guess.

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I seriously doubt that more than one or two scrapjets will survive to make a charge. In my games it's always the first unit that ends up dead, for good reasons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/20 05:59:32


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






There are arguments for taking squads of buggies:
- rule of 3. You might want to get more than 3 skrapjets or squig buggies, so you got to start squadding them
- access to cloud of smoke and kff. If you're taking 6-10 squads of 1, some will get out of 6" radius. If you squad them, you'll likely get all the benefits for all the vehicles.
- Mellee and d3 mw from skrapjets. There are a number of situations where you got to charge. It's likely there won't be enough place to fit 2 separate squad buggies. If they are all in one squad, you'll fit all 3. Also, you might want to finish off a dread or mortarion but if you charge with separate squads, he will interrupt and wreck the rest of the buggies that haven't striked yet.
- You might want to screen. If you're running single squads, the opponent will just choose a buggy he wants dead and rush into the opening. If you have them squadded, you choose which dies first.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/20 09:43:51


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Good points

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Yes, very good points.

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in de
Squishy Squig




Germany

 koooaei wrote:
There are arguments for taking squads of buggies:
- rule of 3. You might want to get more than 3 skrapjets or squig buggies, so you got to start squadding them
- access to cloud of smoke and kff. If you're taking 6-10 squads of 1, some will get out of 6" radius. If you squad them, you'll likely get all the benefits for all the vehicles.
- Mellee and d3 mw from skrapjets. There are a number of situations where you got to charge. It's likely there won't be enough place to fit 2 separate squad buggies. If they are all in one squad, you'll fit all 3. Also, you might want to finish off a dread or mortarion but if you charge with separate squads, he will interrupt and wreck the rest of the buggies that haven't striked yet.
- You might want to screen. If you're running single squads, the opponent will just choose a buggy he wants dead and rush into the opening. If you have them squadded, you choose which dies first.

One GT (?) list posted on goonhammer used a 3er squad of scrapjets with tellyporta and ramming speed to good effect
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Tomsug wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
What are people's thoughts/experiences on running buggies in squads?

I'm still dubious about the effects of morale on them, and their manoeuvrability as a unit.


That is one of the hottest questions. Needs more games to try. But if you look on the goonhammer lists and other previously spotted you see that Squigbuggies are mostly prefered as a single or double model units

It's to abuse their LoS ignoring ranged attacks, I think. It's harder to hide 3 vehicles than 1.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/20 11:15:16


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

Basically one reason to use big squads of anything not just buggies is that the stratagems you use will affect more models, like the cloud of smoke one someone mentioned above.

Ground shaker shells for squig buggies
More dakka
Drive by dakka are just a few I can think of off the top of my head

SMASH  
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

All very good points, thanks everyone.


Now that the dust is settling, what lists are running at the moment?
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 kingbbobb wrote:

Ground shaker shells for squig buggies


Ground shaking shells don't work for squigbuggies. They're only for ''Eavy lobba, so just the rigs.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Afrodactyl wrote:
All very good points, thanks everyone.


Now that the dust is settling, what lists are running at the moment?


It seems to be mostly variants of the buggy list that run with and without either air support (dakkajets/wazbom blastajets) or the squighog boyz. Min squads of boyz or grots for troops and then really pushing MSU squads of Kommandos and Stormboyz for objective grabbing and actions. You have Deffkilla Wartrikes/WB on Warbikes or Beastbosses on Squigosaurs as staple HQ's to lead your detachments, with some support options from Big Meks in MA with either KFF/Tellyporta Blasta alongside the Da Dead Shiny Shoota.

   
Made in dk
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Denmark

I'm thinking of running a squad of Gretchin with 'Orrible Gitz in a BW together with 4 MANz and a Warboss.

The plan is that the BW drives forward. The next turn the Gretchin jump out on an objective, while the MANz disembark with the Warboss and tries to stomp something with +1 to hit in melee, while not really caring about the -1 to their shooting from getting close to the Gretchin.
If the enemy has a squad with high-strength high AP shooting, I might even be able to use Grot Shields!
Any thoughts?

2000pts Da Blitza Boyz! (Orks) 50% painted.

My Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564900.page

Forge World Arkurian Pattern Stormblade:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558337.page 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






First part of new thread up:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/800443.page

Enjoy fighting over the rainbow table

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 Bonde wrote:
I'm thinking of running a squad of Gretchin with 'Orrible Gitz in a BW together with 4 MANz and a Warboss.

The plan is that the BW drives forward. The next turn the Gretchin jump out on an objective, while the MANz disembark with the Warboss and tries to stomp something with +1 to hit in melee, while not really caring about the -1 to their shooting from getting close to the Gretchin.
If the enemy has a squad with high-strength high AP shooting, I might even be able to use Grot Shields!
Any thoughts?


Yeah, that 10 boyz are just 40 points more expensive and much better than gretchins in every possible way. 50 if you give a pk to the nob but then could also work as a back up for the heavy hitters. You may also want the specialist mob slot for another unit. I'd suggest considering gretchins only if you really can't spare the points. Anyway I play 5 meganobz and 10 boyz in a BW quite often, it's a solid combo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/20 13:23:59



 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Bonde wrote:
I'm thinking of running a squad of Gretchin with 'Orrible Gitz in a BW together with 4 MANz and a Warboss.

The plan is that the BW drives forward. The next turn the Gretchin jump out on an objective, while the MANz disembark with the Warboss and tries to stomp something with +1 to hit in melee, while not really caring about the -1 to their shooting from getting close to the Gretchin.
If the enemy has a squad with high-strength high AP shooting, I might even be able to use Grot Shields!
Any thoughts?


The only problem with that is we still don't know how exactly specialist mobz interact with vehicles that don't have the same keyword, since RAW, Gretchin with the Orrible Gitz specialist mob loses the KLAN keyword and thus can't embark on the same battlewagon as the Meganobz and Warboss, who obviously can't get the 'Orrible Gitz keyword as the gretchin can. Not a bad idea otherwise, the main issue with BW at the moment is that they're strictly inferior to Kill Rigs as a unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
First part of new thread up:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/800443.page

Enjoy fighting over the rainbow table


Thanks Jidmah! Much appreciated, truly a boss among bosses

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/20 13:25:43


 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 koooaei wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:

Ground shaker shells for squig buggies


Ground shaking shells don't work for squigbuggies. They're only for ''Eavy lobba, so just the rigs.


My mistake was thinking of something else

SMASH  
   
 
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