We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**tulun**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Small victory for Orks in the new big faq.

Charging counts as a fight first mechanic, which means its no longer trumped by rules that allow a unit to "always fight first" and instead interweaves them, starting with the player who's turn it is.

So we can charge those annoying "fight first" units and still actually fight first, but they will immediately swing back before we can fight with a 2nd unit that charged that turn.

Big win as i always found it frustrating that those rules trumped charging entirely before.

Clarification was good.

But it just means fight last is king. You charge (get fight first), they fight last your unit, they can punch you ahead of you.

Orks as a combat army will fully be our access to easy to use fight last.

**Vineheart01**

Fortunately, Fight Last is a relatively rare rule and most outside of the Silent King are specific to what they actually work against.
Fight First, however, is rather common.

Also....guys...under the new Muster Your Army rules...

Wooo! We can bring a super for only 1cp now! which is FAR easier to stomach!

**Beardedragon**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Fortunately, Fight Last is a relatively rare rule and most outside of the Silent King are specific to what they actually work against.
Fight First, however, is rather common.

Also....guys...under the new Muster Your Army rules...

Wooo! We can bring a super for only 1cp now! which is FAR easier to stomach!

maybe my english fails me but i dont, at all, understand the text on the picture. It means we can bring a super heavy for 1CP? nice.

Edit: I think i finally understood it. Oh yea maybe i should've bought a killtank this month then. but ive already used up my warhammer 40k budget lol

**Jidmah**

kingbbobb wrote:
the new FAQ has solidified certain units abilities to fallback and shoot. under core rules on "units that count as remaining stationary"

Eldar with battlefocus can now officially fall back and shoot - thats most infantry without heavy weapons

"If this unit moves or Advances in its Movement phase, weapons (excluding Heavy weapons) are used as if the unit had remained stationary."

and i guess Tau Mont’ka aswell.

You can't advance and falling back at the same time, they are mutually exclusive ways of moving. So no remaining stationary for falling back eldar. This mostly affects some stratagems and I think DA have chant that does this.

It's also worth noting that this is how it worked before, it was just clarified because many people argued that it was not intended that way.

**Blackie**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Small victory for Orks in the new big faq.

Charging counts as a fight first mechanic, which means its no longer trumped by rules that allow a unit to "always fight first" and instead interweaves them, starting with the player who's turn it is.

So we can charge those annoying "fight first" units and still actually fight first, but they will immediately swing back before we can fight with a 2nd unit that charged that turn.

Big win as i always found it frustrating that those rules trumped charging entirely before.

I thought charging was already a source of fighting first ability and I've always played it like it was. Pag 361, Rulebook: it clearly says to alternate units that charged and units with fight first rule.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
Small victory for Orks in the new big faq.

Charging counts as a fight first mechanic, which means its no longer trumped by rules that allow a unit to "always fight first" and instead interweaves them, starting with the player who's turn it is.

So we can charge those annoying "fight first" units and still actually fight first, but they will immediately swing back before we can fight with a 2nd unit that charged that turn.

Big win as i always found it frustrating that those rules trumped charging entirely before.

Clarification was good.

But it just means fight last is king. You charge (get fight first), they fight last your unit, they can punch you ahead of you.

Orks as a combat army will fully be our access to easy to use fight last.

Fight first/last is becoming pretty common in 9th, I'm sure we'll get our ways to get access to those abilties as well.

**addnid**

I wish they would just get rid of all fight first/last rules (aside from the basic BRB rules, basically just "you charge, you fight first"). It is a game breaking rule that GW doesn't have the skill to cost appropriately in terms of points

**Jidmah**

addnid wrote:
I wish they would just get rid of all fight first/last rules (aside from the basic BRB rules, basically just "you charge, you fight first"). It is a game breaking rule that GW doesn't have the skill to cost appropriately in terms of points

Maybe, I think it's an interesting mechanic, but it's implemented badly.

It really could work like MtG's first strike if they've just keyworded it.
Fight phase:
First fight step - All units with "fight first" fight, starting with active player
Second fight step - All units without "fight last" that have not fought yet fight, starting with non-active player
Third fight step - All units with that have not fought yet or have "fight twice" fight, starting with active player

"Fight first" and "fight last" cancel each other out, units with both "fight twice" and "fight last" can be selected twice during the third fight step. Multiple instances of any of the abilities are redundant.
Then just get rid of that "not eligible to fight" gak.

I also don't think it can't be costed properly - the DG foul blightspawn with relic probably is probably most powerful version of this ability and he is a good option, but far from an auto-take. In other words, costed properly for what he does.

**tneva82**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Small victory for Orks in the new big faq.

Charging counts as a fight first mechanic, which means its no longer trumped by rules that allow a unit to "always fight first" and instead interweaves them, starting with the player who's turn it is.

So we can charge those annoying "fight first" units and still actually fight first, but they will immediately swing back before we can fight with a 2nd unit that charged that turn.

Big win as i always found it frustrating that those rules trumped charging entirely before.

Umm pretty sure it did before? At least rule says "charging units fight first. Also the article at least made it sound as clarification rather than change. Plus TTT guys been using it like that(and been saying "enemy always strike last is only true always strike first as such") and seeing they were playtesters I would assume they know rules.

Could be wrong though. Don't have that happen all that much for me anyway.

**addnid**

Jidmah wrote:
addnid wrote:
I wish they would just get rid of all fight first/last rules (aside from the basic BRB rules, basically just "you charge, you fight first"). It is a game breaking rule that GW doesn't have the skill to cost appropriately in terms of points

Maybe, I think it's an interesting mechanic, but it's implemented badly.

It really could work like MtG's first strike if they've just keyworded it.
Fight phase:
First fight step - All units with "fight first" fight, starting with active player
Second fight step - All units without "fight last" that have not fought yet fight, starting with non-active player
Third fight step - All units with that have not fought yet or have "fight twice" fight, starting with active player

"Fight first" and "fight last" cancel each other out, units with both "fight twice" and "fight last" can be selected twice during the third fight step. Multiple instances of any of the abilities are redundant.
Then just get rid of that "not eligible to fight" gak.

I also don't think it can't be costed properly - the DG foul blightspawn with relic probably is probably most powerful version of this ability and he is a good option, but far from an auto-take. In other words, costed properly for what he does.

True the MtG intiative step is a good implementation. They even did "double intitative" hah hah, they would not have if implementation of "simple initative" was not optimal. But alas, people like you and me who play both games know how wide the gap is between the respective abilities of both GW and WoTC in terms of rule implementation...

Also, the intitative characteristic which existed was a much simpler way to decide who fought first... They were stupid to kill that, and then bring back a fight order based on shoddy rule writing... They should bring it back in 10th ed, if they want to mess with fighting orders. GW is really bad at this sort of stuff, even when they get it right, they then proceed to get rid of it, then bring it back in a worse form...

**Grimskul**

As much as GW didn't do a great job implementing exceptions to the current alternating fighting rules in the fight phase, I don't want to go back to initiative like it was in 5th-7th edition as a stat. One big problem for us was that as Orks, we were effectively the "have-nots" when it came to initiative. I2 base for most of our units meant we only fought at the same time as Necrons and a few other slow units in other armies. Especially once they changed furious charge to lose the initiative bonus, it meant that we basically always had to settle for being attacked first, which is a pretty big problem when our defences in combat got increasingly weaker as armies got deadlier and deadlier and our ways of mitigating in CC was basically just relegated to FNP by the time of 7th and the MAW with the Lucky Stikk. It sucks for guys like Eldar, but I feel especially for how CC centric the game is now for objectives, that bringing back initiative would only screw us over assuming they don't make charges like they are now where people who charge count as being I10 or something.

**Beardedragon**

If you intend to deepstrike a gorkanaut and have nothing else to throw sparkly bits on, would that not increase your damage more than slug gubbins?

Slug gubbins do give you 6 more shots with the deffstorm mega shoota, but everything else still hits on a 5. + you actually need to be wary with how you shoot, as you cant shoot the unit in front of you, as you would remove your charge target. so the target you wanna charge needs to be near another target worth shooting to get the +1 to hit.

Sparkly bits seem to me to be the better choice here? unless of course another unit uses sparkly bits already

**Grimskul**

Beardedragon wrote:
If you intend to deepstrike a gorkanaut and have nothing else to throw sparkly bits on, would that not increase your damage more than slug gubbins?

Slug gubbins do give you 6 more shots with the deffstorm mega shoota, but everything else still hits on a 5. + you actually need to be wary with how you shoot, as you cant shoot the unit in front of you, as you would remove your charge target. so the target you wanna charge needs to be near another target worth shooting to get the +1 to hit.

Sparkly bits seem to me to be the better choice here? unless of course another unit uses sparkly bits already

The problem is the opportunity cost that you mention of it being much more viable on a Morkanaut compared to a Gorkanaut. A Gorkanaut is already pretty subpar as a unit comparatively, the slug gubbin is taken usually in addition to that of sparkly bitz. Furthermore, I actually wouldn't say that it ruins your charge that much because if you're tellyporting your Gorkanaut you're also likely to be using Ramming Speed on the turn he arrives so your big 300 point investment isn't stuck pissing in the wind if he fails the charge, so even if it's an 11" charge after your round of shooting with it, you still have a pretty good chance of making it into combat.

**kingbbobb**

Jidmah wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
the new FAQ has solidified certain units abilities to fallback and shoot. under core rules on "units that count as remaining stationary"

Eldar with battlefocus can now officially fall back and shoot - thats most infantry without heavy weapons

"If this unit moves or Advances in its Movement phase, weapons (excluding Heavy weapons) are used as if the unit had remained stationary."

and i guess Tau Mont’ka aswell.

You can't advance and falling back at the same time, they are mutually exclusive ways of moving. So no remaining stationary for falling back eldar. This mostly affects some stratagems and I think DA have chant that does this.

It's also worth noting that this is how it worked before, it was just clarified because many people argued that it was not intended that way.

Yeah it's been confirmed they can fallback and shoot

**Beardedragon**

Grimskul wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
If you intend to deepstrike a gorkanaut and have nothing else to throw sparkly bits on, would that not increase your damage more than slug gubbins?

Slug gubbins do give you 6 more shots with the deffstorm mega shoota, but everything else still hits on a 5. + you actually need to be wary with how you shoot, as you cant shoot the unit in front of you, as you would remove your charge target. so the target you wanna charge needs to be near another target worth shooting to get the +1 to hit.

Sparkly bits seem to me to be the better choice here? unless of course another unit uses sparkly bits already

The problem is the opportunity cost that you mention of it being much more viable on a Morkanaut compared to a Gorkanaut. A Gorkanaut is already pretty subpar as a unit comparatively, the slug gubbin is taken usually in addition to that of sparkly bitz. Furthermore, I actually wouldn't say that it ruins your charge that much because if you're tellyporting your Gorkanaut you're also likely to be using Ramming Speed on the turn he arrives so your big 300 point investment isn't stuck pissing in the wind if he fails the charge, so even if it's an 11" charge after your round of shooting with it, you still have a pretty good chance of making it into combat.

true. but i was thinking, if i do bring a gorkanaut, i dont see why i should also bring a morkanaut. both units are easy to kill and are sitting on 340 points. i would probably only bring one naut. Wouldnt that make Sparkly bits better than slug gubbinz then? I mean your rokkits and 12 big shoota shots also hits on 4s

**Jidmah**

kingbbobb wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
the new FAQ has solidified certain units abilities to fallback and shoot. under core rules on "units that count as remaining stationary"

Eldar with battlefocus can now officially fall back and shoot - thats most infantry without heavy weapons

"If this unit moves or Advances in its Movement phase, weapons (excluding Heavy weapons) are used as if the unit had remained stationary."

and i guess Tau Mont’ka aswell.

You can't advance and falling back at the same time, they are mutually exclusive ways of moving. So no remaining stationary for falling back eldar. This mostly affects some stratagems and I think DA have chant that does this.

It's also worth noting that this is how it worked before, it was just clarified because many people argued that it was not intended that way.

Yeah it's been confirmed they can fallback and shoot

I might want to re-read their rule. Battle focus only works when advancing. If you fall back, no advancing. No advancing, no "count as stationary".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
true. but i was thinking, if i do bring a gorkanaut, i dont see why i should also bring a morkanaut. both units are easy to kill and are sitting on 340 points. i would probably only bring one naut. Wouldnt that make Sparkly bits better than slug gubbinz then? I mean your rokkits and 12 big shoota shots also hits on 4s

His point was that you shouldn't bring a grokanaut with sparkly bits if you can bring a morkanaut with sparkly bits.

That said, slug gubbin gives you 3 extra hits at S6 AP-1 while sparky bits gives you 2 extra hits at S5 AP0 and .33 extra rokkit hits, so the slug gubbin wins out in terms of damage.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
the new FAQ has solidified certain units abilities to fallback and shoot. under core rules on "units that count as remaining stationary"

Eldar with battlefocus can now officially fall back and shoot - thats most infantry without heavy weapons

"If this unit moves or Advances in its Movement phase, weapons (excluding Heavy weapons) are used as if the unit had remained stationary."

and i guess Tau Mont’ka aswell.

You can't advance and falling back at the same time, they are mutually exclusive ways of moving. So no remaining stationary for falling back eldar. This mostly affects some stratagems and I think DA have chant that does this.

It's also worth noting that this is how it worked before, it was just clarified because many people argued that it was not intended that way.

Yeah it's been confirmed they can fallback and shoot

I might want to re-read their rule. Battle focus only works when advancing. If you fall back, no advancing. No advancing, no "count as stationary".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
true. but i was thinking, if i do bring a gorkanaut, i dont see why i should also bring a morkanaut. both units are easy to kill and are sitting on 340 points. i would probably only bring one naut. Wouldnt that make Sparkly bits better than slug gubbinz then? I mean your rokkits and 12 big shoota shots also hits on 4s

His point was that you shouldn't bring a grokanaut with sparkly bits if you can bring a morkanaut with sparkly bits.

That said, slug gubbin gives you 3 extra hits at S6 AP-1 while sparky bits gives you 2 extra hits at S5 AP0 and .33 extra rokkit hits, so the slug gubbin wins out in terms of damage.

oh but my point was that i wanted to deepstrike the gorkanaut, land, shoot, and charge in.

Wouldnt a Gorkanaut do that better given it has more CC attacks? I thought the Morkanauts main selling point was that it was footslogging up the field with a KFF to protect the army. I didnt think it would be better to deepstrike a Morkanaut, shoot and then charge.

Im also unsure about what you mean with the extra hits. The slug gubbinz gives you 24 S6 shots, rather than 18 without it. and then your remaining 12S5 shots + 2 rokkits would hit on 5s. With sparkly bits you go for 18 S6 shots, 12S5 shots and 2 rokkits all hitting on 4s, rather than your 24 S6 shots only.

Im not very good at math so i dont know what adds up to the most damage.

I think a point here i forgot to point out because i didnt think it was important was, that i was thinking about making a fun Bad Moons army. Hence the Gorkanaut for rerolling 1s with its many shots.

**Jidmah**

Ah, I skipped a bit of math here.

The gorkanaut with slug gubbing has 24 shots at BS4, which is 6 more shots than the sparkly bits naut, resulting in 3 more hits.

The sparkly gorkanaut instead gets 6 big shoota hits instead of 4 and 1 rokkit hit instead of .66

As for the additional CC attacks, in my experience it rarely makes a difference whether you have 12 hit rolls or 18 hit rolls. Meanwhile having a morkanaut hit something with the mega-zappa always makes a difference, so I would always opt for the morkanaut over the gorkanaut. But that's just my personal opinion.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
Ah, I skipped a bit of math here.

The gorkanaut with slug gubbing has 24 shots at BS4, which is 6 more shots than the sparkly bits naut, resulting in 3 more hits.

The sparkly gorkanaut instead gets 6 big shoota hits instead of 4 and 1 rokkit hit instead of .66

As for the additional CC attacks, in my experience it rarely makes a difference whether you have 12 hit rolls or 18 hit rolls. Meanwhile having a morkanaut hit something with the mega-zappa always makes a difference, so I would always opt for the morkanaut over the gorkanaut. But that's just my personal opinion.

well your personal opinion is valued and noted.

Thanks for clarification and your input.

Getting input from the pros is always awesome.

**kingbbobb**

Jidmah wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
the new FAQ has solidified certain units abilities to fallback and shoot. under core rules on "units that count as remaining stationary"

Eldar with battlefocus can now officially fall back and shoot - thats most infantry without heavy weapons

"If this unit moves or Advances in its Movement phase, weapons (excluding Heavy weapons) are used as if the unit had remained stationary."

and i guess Tau Mont’ka aswell.

You can't advance and falling back at the same time, they are mutually exclusive ways of moving. So no remaining stationary for falling back eldar. This mostly affects some stratagems and I think DA have chant that does this.

It's also worth noting that this is how it worked before, it was just clarified because many people argued that it was not intended that way.

Yeah it's been confirmed they can fallback and shoot

I might want to re-read their rule. Battle focus only works when advancing. If you fall back, no advancing. No advancing, no "count as stationary

.

That's not what battle focus says it says if you MOVE or advance in the movement phase.

goon hammer specifically talk about Mont Ka here
But the wording of montka is similar to battle focus

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-2021-big-faq-update-hot-take-core-rules/

".....most critically, it means that if you Fall Back and then count as Remaining Stationary you can shoot, boosting the power of Mont’ka specifically."

"Mont’ka: In a turn in which a FARSIGHT ENCLAVES COMMANDER unit from your army declared Mont’ka, at the start of your Movement phase you can select any friendly FARSIGHT ENCLAVES units within 6" of that unit. Until the end of that turn, the selected units can shoot as if they did not move this turn"

the faq is below, read the main text and point 1

**pepi55**

Hey guys,

How is this 1000 pts list?

Spoiler:

Im uncertain if I want Makari or a Weirdboi... Makari sounds nice for the 6+ FnP but I havent played enough games to know how significant that is compared to the utility of the weirdboi. Do I even need a weirdboy with this list?

The idea is that the nobz will sit in the trukk but I dont know if the correct play is to use them as the cleanup crew or to save that role for the slower thraka + boiz wave?

**Jidmah**

Makari is pretty much a joke unit. If you want to see him pin down a bloodthirster, you pick makari, otherwise anything else is better.

The most competitive choice would probably a painboy to heal Thrakka and buff the boyz, but the weirdboy is fine as well. I'd just bring warpath instead of fists, but that's just a matter of taste.

**Blackie**

pepi55 wrote:
Hey guys,

How is this 1000 pts list?

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Orks) [51 PL, 3CP, 999pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Clan Kultur / Specialist Mobs: Goffs

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Ghazghkull Thraka [15 PL, 300pts]: Proper Killy, Warlord

Weirdboy [4 PL, -1CP, 75pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork, Super Cybork Body, Warphead

+ Troops +

Boyz [12 PL, -1CP, 280pts]: Skarboyz, 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. 26x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa: 26x Choppa, 26x Slugga, 26x Stikkbombs

+ Elites +

Meganobz [10 PL, 194pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ power klaw: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob w/ 2 kill saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ 2 kill saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ power klaw: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob w/ power klaw: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [6 PL, 80pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [4 PL, -1CP, 70pts]: Stickbomb Chucka
. Kustom Job: Squig-Hide Tyres

++ Total: [51 PL, 3CP, 999pts] ++

Im uncertain if I want Makari or a Weirdboi... Makari sounds nice for the 6+ FnP but I havent played enough games to know how significant that is compared to the utility of the weirdboi. Do I even need a weirdboy with this list?

The idea is that the nobz will sit in the trukk but I dont know if the correct play is to use them as the cleanup crew or to save that role for the slower thraka + boiz wave?

You don't have enough units and will struggle a lot to play the game with a list such as this. Ghaz is really expensive for 1000 points game so if you really want him I'd suggest to ditch the weirboy (or any other 2nd character you may want), trukk, meganobz and field more bodies, especially kommandos and more boyz. Maybe keep the 3 man squad of meganobz and put it into tellyporta. Save 30 points by ditching rokkits from boyz.

**Afrodactyl**

pepi55 wrote:

Spoiler:

Hey guys,

How is this 1000 pts list?

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Orks) [51 PL, 3CP, 999pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Clan Kultur / Specialist Mobs: Goffs

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Ghazghkull Thraka [15 PL, 300pts]: Proper Killy, Warlord

Weirdboy [4 PL, -1CP, 75pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork, Super Cybork Body, Warphead

+ Troops +

Boyz [12 PL, -1CP, 280pts]: Skarboyz, 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. 26x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa: 26x Choppa, 26x Slugga, 26x Stikkbombs

+ Elites +

Meganobz [10 PL, 194pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ power klaw: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob w/ 2 kill saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ 2 kill saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ power klaw: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob w/ power klaw: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [6 PL, 80pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [4 PL, -1CP, 70pts]: Stickbomb Chucka
. Kustom Job: Squig-Hide Tyres

++ Total: [51 PL, 3CP, 999pts] ++

Im uncertain if I want Makari or a Weirdboi... Makari sounds nice for the 6+ FnP but I havent played enough games to know how significant that is compared to the utility of the weirdboi. Do I even need a weirdboy with this list?

The idea is that the nobz will sit in the trukk but I dont know if the correct play is to use them as the cleanup crew or to save that role for the slower thraka + boiz wave?

As others have said, I probably wouldn't use Ghaz at 1000 points, he's just too expensive at such a small scale.

That being said if I were to use Ghaz in a 1k list I would ditch all of the toys and just run Ghaz, painboy and as many boys and killsaws as I could squeeze in. Completely forego shooting in favour of drowning the opponent in bodies and praying they just don't have enough anti horde to deal with it all.

Spoiler:

:EDIT:
On another note, Killtanks now only cost 1CP. Suddenly more worth taking?

**pepi55**

Oh wow makari being dissapointing is dissapointing... I dont want to be absolutely competitive, just wanna run some cool units.

So about thraka, I currently have only 2 half built 30 boi squads and with the approach of the snaggas im reluctant to get any more boi kits, which is why my list only runs 1 boy squad. I also dont have kommandos cuz no discount store sells them but I do have a squad of stormboyz... Im also considering kitbashing a regular nob into a big mek with KFF with the spare KFF i have from the MANZ kit, but HQ is cramped as is. I also have a squad of grots but since they have no synergy with thraka or anything else, I didnt use them.

Afrodactyl's example list looks interesting, but I wonder if there really isnt any way to incorporate MANZ in it?

Thanks for the advice guys.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what if the new codex reduces boi squads to 20 models??? Is this something that is likely to happen? iirc thousand sons rubric squads got reduced to max 10 and i think other loyalist factions got the same treatment.

**Blackie**

pepi55 wrote:

Also, what if the new codex reduces boi squads to 20 models??? Is this something that is likely to happen? iirc thousand sons rubric squads got reduced to max 10 and i think other loyalist factions got the same treatment.

We don't know it yet, although it seems not likely to happen. Most of the marines' units are capped at max 10, while boyz are 10-30 since ages. However with orks owning 60 boyz still sounds pretty safe, especially if you want to equip one mob with slugga/choppa and one with shootas. I wouldn't recommend to get more in this stage though and wait for the codex.

**Afrodactyl**

pepi55 wrote:
Snip

Personally, I would either run Ghaz, Painboy and boys blobs, or BB Warboss, KFF and MANz (MANz going in a tellyporta, or being da jumped up the field.

I also think boys are pretty safe when it comes to still being able to be taken in blobs of 30 in the new dex. Hordes of boys have always kind of been our thing.

**Keramory**

Saw the T5 buff. Kind of worries me for horde lists as the points might go up. I feel like they almost have to go up.

Do you think most armies can reliably remove 120 t5 models off the field? Most mass fire weapons are str 4 at most. How would you kill off this many orks?

**Vineheart01**

its not hard to remove mass T5 models, especially when they dont have a save to speak of.
Its only remotely difficult because people dont even attempt to anticipate that issue, they only prepare for big bad things and mass 2W model things.

**Keramory**

Vineheart01 wrote:
its not hard to remove mass T5 models, especially when they dont have a save to speak of.
Its only remotely difficult because people dont even attempt to anticipate that issue, they only prepare for big bad things and mass 2W model things.

Not being sarcastic, I may not know, but what army has mass t5 to compare this to? I don't know, boy spam with boss/ghaz was scary enough at t4. Now not being able to reliably wound such a large count is pretty frightening. Has anyone tested out horde at t5 as of yet and seen if they noticed a difference?

**Vineheart01**

Not necessarily at these numbers with 1W no but we already know from other armies that the high save (or -1D and 2/3W) does more work than T5 does.

Pre-2W -1D Deathguard often fielded a large number of T5, not 120 of them but still quite a lot. It wasnt the toughness that kept them alive, it was the 3+/5+++ that did (though the T5 did help)
My roommate has DG and i know first hand that i can wound them without really trying, issue is their saves just kept them up anyway.
T5 alone isnt that big a deal. All i expect from 30man T5 boy blobs is they wont get totally wiped from 1 round of shooting anymore and actually require 2-3 units to remove them (since nobody is gonna wanna fire 2 units of aggresors at them for example)