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The big two I see as actual holes in their lineup vs oldmarines are:

1) Fast assault unit to replace jump pack assault marines. You could probably literally put jump packs in assault intercessors and call that one good.

2) Gravis armor assault unit to replace TH/SS and Lightning Claw terminators. That is, if they're planning on replacing terminators. Seems to me that Gravis really doesn't still read as "this is a terminator" like the regular marines really still read as marines, but I guess it's GW's IP and they can nuke it if they want to.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Primaris inside a Primaris.

Something like this?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
Primaris inside a Primaris.

Something like this?

I hope that Primaris will eventually be able wear Terminator Armour. And allowed in Landraiders. If Primarchs and First-Born can then Primaris should also.

Tygre wrote:
I hope that Primaris will eventually be able wear Terminator Armour. And allowed in Landraiders. If Primarchs and First-Born can then Primaris should also.

Honestly if I were GW I probably wouldn't retire terminators. Or land raiders. They're good kits. Just declare that there's Primaris in there now.

I mean, it's already utterly BEYOND stupid that they're going down the route of these sacred relics like marine tanks and venerable dreadnoughts are just being pitched out by the loyalists like yesterday's jam, but it'd really truly be hilarious if they did that with the fuckin land raiders and terminator suits.

"ah yes, these priceless relics, each chapter only has a few. We must always cherish, protect and maintain them..."

"BOSS, NEW SHIPMENT A' GRAVY ARMAH JUST CAME IN!"

"I see - in that case then, yeet!"

The guy in charge of all the marines right now not only wrote their sacred book of tactics but holds nothing sacred. Bobby G does not give a feth if you held onto a dread for 10k years. He cares if its the most effective weapon for the war hes leading.

Primaris Primarchs?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Drop pods are such a iconic part of the marine faction that I'm actually surprised we haven't gotten a primaris equivalent yet.

What surprises me is how many of us readily accept that we need a primaris equivalent of the drop pod. The drop pod is a perfectly fine model and there's no reason it couldn't be used for primaris except for GW's artificially imposed restrictions as to what primaris can and can't ride in. Afterall, we have to get to re-purchase all our infantry, they might as well make us re-purchase all our vehicles too, right? They have us well-trained indeed.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is the 10 Company rule even a thing in this glorious age of Warhammer 41k?

I thought the 1000 Marine limit was out the window?

Considering that once rare antigrav is now also wiedly available, for no reason at all, the flanderisation has long since started before....

Considering both of those pieces of fluff were absolutely fething slowed good gorram riddance. 1000 marines in a galaxy of trillions are literally irrelevant. The fact that they pretended otherwise is the single biggest flub of scale of conflict in the entire 40k universe.

Not being able to have ANY new technology was just stupid for a miniature based system. As dumb as you might find 'we made new hover tanks', the continuous litany of 'actually no, we've secretly had this the whole time!' or 'we just found the STC in a cave! what a coincidence!' was WAY dumber.

Aside from the things we know are coming, I think the one thing left for them to do with Primaris is release a new Lieutenant.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Drop pods are such a iconic part of the marine faction that I'm actually surprised we haven't gotten a primaris equivalent yet.

What surprises me is how many of us readily accept that we need a primaris equivalent of the drop pod. The drop pod is a perfectly fine model and there's no reason it couldn't be used for primaris except for GW's artificially imposed restrictions as to what primaris can and can't ride in. Afterall, we have to get to re-purchase all our infantry, they might as well make us re-purchase all our vehicles too, right? They have us well-trained indeed.

Not enough ironhail stubbers on the drop pod, sorry.

What Primaris are missing more than anything else at the moment is a significant points increase.

ERJAK wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is the 10 Company rule even a thing in this glorious age of Warhammer 41k?

I thought the 1000 Marine limit was out the window?

Considering that once rare antigrav is now also wiedly available, for no reason at all, the flanderisation has long since started before....

Considering both of those pieces of fluff were absolutely fething slowed good gorram riddance. 1000 marines in a galaxy of trillions are literally irrelevant. The fact that they pretended otherwise is the single biggest flub of scale of conflict in the entire 40k universe.

Not being able to have ANY new technology was just stupid for a miniature based system. As dumb as you might find 'we made new hover tanks', the continuous litany of 'actually no, we've secretly had this the whole time!' or 'we just found the STC in a cave! what a coincidence!' was WAY dumber.

The lack of progress has always been a key component to the setting. Future technology combined with backwards thinking is the thing that has set 40k apart. It's where the meme of "Fly to a planet with a starship and attack them with a Chainsword" comes from.

Well, with regards to the OP and a nod to GW, we could do with some Primaris Eldar Guardians, or Primaris Valhallans or even Primaris Ork Boyz.

In the SM line; Jet packs, Artillery tanks and Flyers. I hope terminators stay.

Anyway, Primaris, I am kind of, Primaris fatigued, by all the Primaris releases of Primaris.

Primarily Jump Pack CC units and a proper aircraft. Then some niche tanks like a Primaris version of the Whirlwind and Stalker.

What's left for Primaris?

Squatting, in favour of Even Bigger Marines...

ERJAK wrote:
Not being able to have ANY new technology was just stupid for a miniature based system. As dumb as you might find 'we made new hover tanks', the continuous litany of 'actually no, we've secretly had this the whole time!' or 'we just found the STC in a cave! what a coincidence!' was WAY dumber.

What's wrong with "we've had it the whole time"? Unless we're supposed to believe that literally everything that exists in the background exists in model form and nothing more. Makes the galaxy seem awful small...

I would like to see an IF capable artillery vehicle.

The artillery platform should be a missile launcher, like the whirlwind. Tube Artillery isn't really ideal for modern space marine tactics and operations [and also would probably wind up with issues if mounted on a hovertank].

Insectum7 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is the 10 Company rule even a thing in this glorious age of Warhammer 41k?

I thought the 1000 Marine limit was out the window?

Considering that once rare antigrav is now also wiedly available, for no reason at all, the flanderisation has long since started before....

Considering both of those pieces of fluff were absolutely fething slowed good gorram riddance. 1000 marines in a galaxy of trillions are literally irrelevant. The fact that they pretended otherwise is the single biggest flub of scale of conflict in the entire 40k universe.

Not being able to have ANY new technology was just stupid for a miniature based system. As dumb as you might find 'we made new hover tanks', the continuous litany of 'actually no, we've secretly had this the whole time!' or 'we just found the STC in a cave! what a coincidence!' was WAY dumber.

The lack of progress has always been a key component to the setting. Future technology combined with backwards thinking is the thing that has set 40k apart. It's where the meme of "Fly to a planet with a starship and attack them with a Chainsword" comes from.

There's a lot more than 1000 marines. The Marines are divided into units of Chapters of 1000 with Companies of 100 to deliberately cripple them as part of the breaking of the legions, so that no individual Marine organization would have the strength at it's disposal to conduct full planetary conquests on it's own terms without requiring support from the Imperial Guard to hold ground and manage the areas that are not the center of gravity.

This is actually fairly realistic. Such power structures have a backing in real life dictatorships, where various government arms and agencies are set at each other and deliberately crippled on their own or crippled by their competition so that they can't challenge the dictator in question.


It's also worth mention that in a combined arms Imperial operation, the Space Marines would be expeditionary forces at the operational center of gravity [tip of the spear], where there legitimately might only need to be 1000 of them, while the Imperial Guard both supports the Space Marines with their artillery and infantry at the critical point and spreads itself out to hold and make other attacks in less significant sectors, as well as to exploit breakthroughs once the Space Marines achieve them.


That said, I believe the 1000 marine chapter size is very much out the window. With Guilliman in power, as the person who by and large presided over the division in the first place and having a vested interest in restoring the relative power of the Space Marines, he has the ability to and motivation to un-do the breaking of the legions and permit chapters to maintain many more men under arms.



As for the whole technology question:

ERJAK wrote:
Not being able to have ANY new technology was just stupid for a miniature based system. As dumb as you might find 'we made new hover tanks', the continuous litany of 'actually no, we've secretly had this the whole time!' or 'we just found the STC in a cave! what a coincidence!' was WAY dumber.

I agree with this sentiment.

In fact, technology for the Imperium hasn't been stagnant, even in the pre-primaris lore.

Razorbacks and Immolators are the most prominent example of a legitimate new development. There were also a number of "improved Space Marine" projects in the lore over time, all of which previously failed, but eventually one would succeed.
Also, the Stormblade, Stormsword, Doomhammer, and Banehammer tanks which are all developments from the Shadowsword [usually as a result of the factory in question being authorized to make Shadowswords but not having the technical ability to produce the Volcano Cannon or wrecked Shadowswords with broken guns being brought back to more forward factories and refurbished without the ability to replace the gun.]

It is my opinion that the worst part of the Primaris lore is the fact that they decided to stick to the "everything must somehow have heritage to M30" with the program being a 10000 year old secret project with the hot pockets that are finally done.

^It's true, technology hasn't been completely stagnant.

But flying tanks are a step too far, imo.

Taking a break so some other factions can get a look in?

Moving classic marines to Legends?

 Insectum7 wrote:
^It's true, technology hasn't been completely stagnant.

But flying tanks are a step too far, imo.

In that case that step too far happened in the Rogue Trader!

 LunarSol wrote:
Moving classic marines to Legends?

Moving Primaris to Legends.

 Dysartes wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Moving classic marines to Legends?

Moving Primaris to Legends.

Off your meds huh?

Meanwhile, in reality...

 Insectum7 wrote:
^It's true, technology hasn't been completely stagnant.

But flying tanks are a step too far, imo.

they're not flying so much as hovering.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^It's true, technology hasn't been completely stagnant.

But flying tanks are a step too far, imo.

they're not flying so much as hovering.

Sure . . . That's worse. Actual aircraft are less of an issue.

 Rinkydink wrote:

Anyway, Primaris, I am kind of, Primaris fatigued, by all the Primaris releases of Primaris.

I really agree. I love Primaris, but man, there's so much. I'm more a collector and painter than player as of late and there better be a few years before we see another marine release after this.

But in regards to the topic I'd say Terminator equivalent, JP vets(let's be honest JP assault marines get out shined by VV) , a company champion, and a cheap transport for Gravis.

the_scotsman wrote:

Tygre wrote:
I hope that Primaris will eventually be able wear Terminator Armour. And allowed in Landraiders. If Primarchs and First-Born can then Primaris should also.

Honestly if I were GW I probably wouldn't retire terminators. Or land raiders. They're good kits. Just declare that there's Primaris in there now.

I mean, it's already utterly BEYOND stupid that they're going down the route of these sacred relics like marine tanks and venerable dreadnoughts are just being pitched out by the loyalists like yesterday's jam, but it'd really truly be hilarious if they did that with the fuckin land raiders and terminator suits.

"ah yes, these priceless relics, each chapter only has a few. We must always cherish, protect and maintain them..."

"BOSS, NEW SHIPMENT A' GRAVY ARMAH JUST CAME IN!"

"I see - in that case then, yeet!"

So much this^^



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^It's true, technology hasn't been completely stagnant.

But flying tanks are a step too far, imo.

In that case that step too far happened in the Rogue Trader!

The idea was that things weren’t supposed to be getting better ... absent emperor, no more angels (primarchs, great heroes) amongst humans lost and corrupted in the far reaches of space. The marines, once thuggish yoomies in power armor (rogue trader, think Traveller RPG active military maybe mercenary) turned saviors of the Imperium, cleansing worlds of corruption (cue the Inquisition, assassins, etc). Still, they ground it out as faith in the holy purpose of humankind buckled under the rift.

Now, flying tanks and two wounds tactikool restartes... meh.

 kingheff wrote:
Taking a break so some other factions can get a look in?

Would be refreshing..

the_scotsman wrote:

Tygre wrote:
I hope that Primaris will eventually be able wear Terminator Armour. And allowed in Landraiders. If Primarchs and First-Born can then Primaris should also.

Honestly if I were GW I probably wouldn't retire terminators. Or land raiders. They're good kits. Just declare that there's Primaris in there now.

I mean, it's already utterly BEYOND stupid that they're going down the route of these sacred relics like marine tanks and venerable dreadnoughts are just being pitched out by the loyalists like yesterday's jam, but it'd really truly be hilarious if they did that with the fuckin land raiders and terminator suits.

"ah yes, these priceless relics, each chapter only has a few. We must always cherish, protect and maintain them..."

"BOSS, NEW SHIPMENT A' GRAVY ARMAH JUST CAME IN!"

"I see - in that case then, yeet!"

Gotta disagree on Terminators. Proportions are absolutely terrible.