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What do we think of this?

I hope to assume that this restriction is simply because of the fact of how these units are only available in a squad of three in indomitus. However I imagined that the multipart kit was to be a squad of 5 rather than another 3- maybe a silly assumption, but quite undermines the idea of larger squads of these boys.
Perhaps for the eradicators it makes sense to be kept as a 3- similar to inceptors and eliminators- but for the outriders and bladeguard it wouldn't make sense to be hard capped at 3 with no up or down movement. Normal bikers can do it. I wouldn't say there's a direct comparison for bladeguard, maybe VanVets or sternguard, but again these units can be greatly expanded
Maybe this is done deliberately as a means of keeping these units tame? Or do you think this is just a placeholder until the book is released?

I do realise that this is in a way wishlisting as I really want to pack an impulsor/repulsor with bladeguard or outflank an enormous unit of bikes.



**edit** another thing while I'm here, again referencing a possible update with the codex. The bladeguard ancient is quite grievously missing the ANCIENT keyword which excludes him from any relics and the like. I assume this one is much more intentional, what do you think?

Inceptors can be in 6 man squads, you're thinking Suppressors.

3 man squads are becoming quite common among primaris Marines.

we might be able to expand them to up to 6 but I have every belive that bladeguard vets, eradicators and bikes will be sold in boxes of 3

BrianDavion wrote:
3 man squads are becoming quite common among primaris Marines.

we might be able to expand them to up to 6 but I have every belive that bladeguard vets, eradicators and bikes will be sold in boxes of 3

This sounds right to me.

Allowing some Primaris to be in units of 6 or more would be one of the biggest mistakes GW could make.

Eliminators were really good. If you could take 6 then using the sarge's ability becomes less of a trade-off and more of an auto-take buff.
Eradicators probably wouldn't benefit oddly enough, but I'd still hate to see it.
Outriders would be absolutely obnoxious.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
What do we think of this?

I hope to assume that this restriction is simply because of the fact of how these units are only available in a squad of three in indomitus. However I imagined that the multipart kit was to be a squad of 5 rather than another 3- maybe a silly assumption, but quite undermines the idea of larger squads of these boys.
Perhaps for the eradicators it makes sense to be kept as a 3- similar to inceptors and eliminators- but for the outriders and bladeguard it wouldn't make sense to be hard capped at 3 with no up or down movement. Normal bikers can do it. I wouldn't say there's a direct comparison for bladeguard, maybe VanVets or sternguard, but again these units can be greatly expanded
Maybe this is done deliberately as a means of keeping these units tame? Or do you think this is just a placeholder until the book is released?

I do realise that this is in a way wishlisting as I really want to pack an impulsor/repulsor with bladeguard or outflank an enormous unit of bikes.



**edit** another thing while I'm here, again referencing a possible update with the codex. The bladeguard ancient is quite grievously missing the ANCIENT keyword which excludes him from any relics and the like. I assume this one is much more intentional, what do you think?

I pray to god none of this happens. Like they need better buff efficiency.

I refuse to use them until they allow bumping up of squad members. Simple as that.

I do hope that Outriders can be in squads like regular bikers, or at least 6.

I want to run 2x6 + Bike Chaplain.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I do hope that Outriders can be in squads like regular bikers, or at least 6.

I want to run 2x6 + Bike Chaplain.

I might be ok with that if Transhuman and Skilled Riders went up in cost for unit size.

BrianDavion wrote:
3 man squads are becoming quite common among primaris Marines.

we might be able to expand them to up to 6 but I have every belive that bladeguard vets, eradicators and bikes will be sold in boxes of 3

Box sure. But are they in codex in max 3 is another thing

3 is the new 10. Hadn't you heard?

nah 3 is the new 5, 6 is the new ten

BrianDavion wrote:
nah 3 is the new 5, 6 is the new ten

Well let's hope that you can take them in squads of 6

Squads of bikes with ~40 attacks on the charge... LET'S DO THIS!

Seriously what is it with Marine players just wanting to break the game even harder and reduce 40k to latest OP Primaris vrs latest Op Primars spam.

BrianDavion wrote:
Squads of bikes with ~40 attacks on the charge... LET'S DO THIS!

is it wrong that i spoke this in my mind with the LEEROOOY JENKINS sound.

Ice_can wrote:
Seriously what is it with Marine players just wanting to break the game even harder and reduce 40k to latest OP Primaris vrs latest Op Primars spam.

With them Pushed so much, its expected that They would be quite common in discussion like this.
Really at the end of the Day these are issues that GW needs to solve, and really if they dont get pushed to solve them we probably should not expect it.

Ice_can wrote:
Seriously what is it with Marine players just wanting to break the game even harder and reduce 40k to latest OP Primaris vrs latest Op Primars spam.

Its not that, it's just that we were used to 5-10 and 3-6 man squads and recently GW fixes new squads to exactly 3 guys.

How ridiculous underpriced eg 120pts Eradicators are infuriates me just like it probably does for you, and my primary army are Salamanders (both firstborn and primaris)

Id rather have a balanced game where it comes down to your decisions during game play instead of what codex you picked up or which units you have in your collection. I don't think we should receive yet another codex as marines, simply because that time could've been spent on a different army and sm2.0 is still very recent.

Ice_can wrote:
Seriously what is it with Marine players just wanting to break the game even harder and reduce 40k to latest OP Primaris vrs latest Op Primars spam.

I prefer 5-10 man squads for fluff reasons. Even if I never put a squad that bit on the table, when setting them up on the shelf and writing up my TOE, I want full squads, as dictated by the codex. 5 man combat squads if I can’t get 10. It’s hard to spread 20 marines over 2 squads when mixing units of 5/3/6.

I do understand how buffs and such can break things. Like the eliminator sarge boosting the whole squad would be more powerful on larger ones. Normally the advantages of MSU outweigh these, but there are some gems out there.

BrianDavion wrote:
Squads of bikes with ~40 attacks on the charge... LET'S DO THIS!

We already had this for ages including 8 power fist attacks: Space Wolves Swiftclaws.
Did you see those breaking the meta? Besides, 6 of the new bikers are a PITA to move with those huge bases and the new coherency.

Dark reapers have been in squads of 3+ on and off for a while and they're far more squishy than primaris marines.

The difference being they were never sold as a group of 3...

I always thought aspect warriors should be in units of 3-6 and work like spyrers - equipped out the wazoo with gizmos that offset their mortal squishiness.

nekooni wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Seriously what is it with Marine players just wanting to break the game even harder and reduce 40k to latest OP Primaris vrs latest Op Primars spam.

Its not that, it's just that we were used to 5-10 and 3-6 man squads and recently GW fixes new squads to exactly 3 guys.

So far its happened twice- Eliminators and Suppressors.
Both units have (or had) good reasons to be limited to 3 models. The eliminator sergeant would provide a ridiculous buff to a 6 man squad. A 6 man squad of suppressors in 8th could have disabled overwatch on most of an army.

Don't get too hung up on the fixed numbers for the Indomitus datacards, final unit sizes may not be clear until the full kits or the codex.


Though...eradicators run into an interesting problem. A larger unit size makes it more likely you'll waste shots on the double tap. 2x3 eradicators can have a decent shot at removing 2 tanks/MCs per turn. With a unit of 6, 12 shots all at one tank is likely going to waste a lot of firepower overkilling it.

You said both had reasons to be limited, as though limiting Overwatch was some crazy broken ability. With how detachments worked already in 8th you could've just taken 2×3 already and had done that without missing any space.

Voss wrote:
Don't get too hung up on the fixed numbers for the Indomitus datacards, final unit sizes may not be clear until the full kits or the codex.

Which is what pisses me off. There's no reason not to provide the full Codex entries in Indomitus. Can we please know if my Assault Intercessor Sergeant can have something beyond a Plasma Pistol? If my Outrider Sergeant can have a Power Fist? Or if my Eradicators can have a few extra squadmates?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
Don't get too hung up on the fixed numbers for the Indomitus datacards, final unit sizes may not be clear until the full kits or the codex.

Which is what pisses me off. There's no reason not to provide the full Codex entries in Indomitus. Can we please know if my Assault Intercessor Sergeant can have something beyond a Plasma Pistol? If my Outrider Sergeant can have a Power Fist? Or if my Eradicators can have a few extra squadmates?

But you may make one yourself, and we cant have that.

It does suck a bit, there is so little reason not to when we can assume the book is coming soon anyway. I think anyone that would convert would do so regardless in a lot of cases, and a lot of converters will pick up extra kits anyway just for bits :(

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
Don't get too hung up on the fixed numbers for the Indomitus datacards, final unit sizes may not be clear until the full kits or the codex.

Which is what pisses me off. There's no reason not to provide the full Codex entries in Indomitus. Can we please know if my Assault Intercessor Sergeant can have something beyond a Plasma Pistol? If my Outrider Sergeant can have a Power Fist? Or if my Eradicators can have a few extra squadmates?

No model, no rule. And from GW's POV it's too confusing for Tim the 12yo who looks "wow I can make bladeguard 6 strong? Sign me up!" and then tries to find them and doesn't find them. And GW doesn't in general tell what is coming and when in advance so it's not like Tim the 12yo would know of upcoming solo box.

But it's so asinine.

There are only 3 Blade Guard minis that have been released, so Emperor forbid that we show off their full entry for a unit we've already revealed. We can't even reveal wargear beyond the EZ2B minis.

That's absurd.

Ice_can wrote:
Seriously what is it with Marine players just wanting to break the game even harder and reduce 40k to latest OP Primaris vrs latest Op Primars spam.

if you're refering to my comment it was clearly tounge in cheek.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But it's so asinine.

There are only 3 Blade Guard minis that have been released, so Emperor forbid that we show off their full entry for a unit we've already revealed. We can't even reveal wargear beyond the EZ2B minis.

That's absurd.

It’s so you need to buy the full kit when released.

IIRC the full bladeguard pic they showed the sarge has a plasma pistol, so they will be getting some options.

As they are pushfit, I think I am just going to not glue the arms on the bike/assault sarges. Snipping pegs off and sinking magnets will be a simple retrofit. Or just put them in when building. If assault intercessors don’t get the same CC toys that shooty intercessors do, someone at GW needs to be slapped. Hard.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
Don't get too hung up on the fixed numbers for the Indomitus datacards, final unit sizes may not be clear until the full kits or the codex.

Which is what pisses me off. There's no reason not to provide the full Codex entries in Indomitus. Can we please know if my Assault Intercessor Sergeant can have something beyond a Plasma Pistol? If my Outrider Sergeant can have a Power Fist? Or if my Eradicators can have a few extra squadmates?

One of my assault intercessors Sgts is armed with a hand flamer/thunder hammer & my outrider sgt is armed with a hand flamer. Both are valid sgt equipment so they get them. Stupid gak like this is part of the reason I dont care about tourneys, ZERO players @ my flgs will have a problem with my Salamanders sgts being armed with hand flamers....and I'd have zero problem if there was an equally moronic restriction like that.