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 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Deathwatch and Space Wolves incoming

Is it just me or is that not just a Reiver squad with an upgrade sprue thrown in?

Its not just you unfortunately. As GaroRobe said, wolf skull helms would have been such a good fit. Especially if they were paired with sculpted Phobos shoulders.
*shrug*
I guess this means the DA will probably get a new Primaris unit as well. Anyone want to take bets on it involving Gravis armour and bone white paint?

 Dysartes wrote:
Looking at that picture, I wouldn't be too excited - I see two heads, one chest plate, and a belt icon. Aside from the two heads, it took me a little while to realise that two of the others weren't stock Reivers.

Having said that, they are a nice pair of unhelmeted heads.

Could just be the angle he's posed at, but the guy in the top right on the picture doesn't appear to have any Wolfy components added to him.

It's just the current space wolf primaries upgrade sprue. Which they can only benefit from getting the unhelmeted heads (two of them), the necklace, and some wolf icons. The helmeted head doesn't work for the set, and neither does the chainsword arm. I guess its fine, since you can use the bits later, but still. Kind of bland

 Dysartes wrote:
EDIT - Scratch that. As pointed out, the "Hounds of Morkai" appear to be nothing more than Reivers plus existing Primaris upgrade sprue, going by that pic.

I guess the wording does omit the word "new", so I shouldn't be too surprised...

Just a few bits off that upgrade sprue as well- necklace, icon, 'drawing the knife' arm and two heads. No breastplate or shoulder pads at all, but then the upgrade sprue doesn't have a chest piece.
Its amazingly low effort.

 Crimson wrote:
That's the already existing SW upgrade sprue. The bits from all the upgrade kits fit the phobos too, but inexplicably the rules don't let them take any of the weapons.

Actually, they don't, not really. Phobos have pads with cut corners and slightly different arms. You can, funnily enough, see it on the "fangs" photo - the reiver drawing knife has different, slightly thicker arm without sensor because it was meant for intercessor. All the new bits on this squad are from SW intercessor pack, which is why arms, trinkets, and heads look slightly off. They funnily enough didn't use SW pads for whatever reason though, instead of opting for transfers.

But yeah, it's downright idiotic the reivers can't use upgrade weapons. Power fist replaces arm entirely, so there is no issue of mismatching, even, and the thunder hammer can easily go into the arm meant for knife making it more fluffy and accurate than the above SW knife arm...

GW can't even be bothered to make a new upgrade sprue lmao

Voss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It sounds like it is an upgrade sprue strictly for them, which is what pisses me off.

Raven Guard have their First Company regularly utilizing Phobos armor and we didn't get a special unit.
Shrike has a dedicated bodyguard unit called Shrike's Wing...no unit.

Space Wolves come out and get a special unit? Ridiculous.

Ones a real snowflake chapter getting a new book, and the other is... in the list of first founding chapters.
No surprises here.

The only surprise is that someone might not understand this, or maybe just pretend not to.

I'm very happy we're getting Combat Patrol boxes. The Start Collecting boxes are absolutely my favourite products from GW, I've bought so many for various armies that I didn't previously collect, the only downside for me was the limited scope of the current SC boxes. I really hope these new Combat Patrol boxes offer comparable value, if so I can see myself buying a half dozen or more of these.

So, what are we thinking the price of Outriders will be?

My gut is saying 55USD, given the price of the destroyers and every other release.
But I'm hoping it'll be like $35.

 GaroRobe wrote:
So, what are we thinking the price of Outriders will be?

My gut is saying 55USD, given the price of the destroyers and every other release.
But I'm hoping it'll be like $35.

Almost certainly whatever the Skorpekhs are, so $55. ie, go buy whichever starter box instead.

Voss wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
So, what are we thinking the price of Outriders will be?

My gut is saying 55USD, given the price of the destroyers and every other release.
But I'm hoping it'll be like $35.

Almost certainly whatever the Skorpekhs are, so $55. ie, go buy whichever starter box instead.

If only those starter prices were like their Dark Imperium equivalents. I think the "cheapest" box with outsiders is $100.

JWBS wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It sounds like it is an upgrade sprue strictly for them, which is what pisses me off.

Raven Guard have their First Company regularly utilizing Phobos armor and we didn't get a special unit.
Shrike has a dedicated bodyguard unit called Shrike's Wing...no unit.

Space Wolves come out and get a special unit? Ridiculous.

Ones a real snowflake chapter getting a new book, and the other is... in the list of first founding chapters.
No surprises here.

The only surprise is that someone might not understand this, or maybe just pretend not to.

I'm very happy we're getting Combat Patrol boxes. The Start Collecting boxes are absolutely my favourite products from GW, I've bought so many for various armies that I didn't previously collect, the only downside for me was the limited scope of the current SC boxes. I really hope these new Combat Patrol boxes offer comparable value, if so I can see myself buying a half dozen or more of these.

I do like boxes in general (especially for getting characters at reasonable prices).... but I can't see getting multiples of these.
The DW one looks like it might be great for getting an apothecary, an LT, and some core primaris units, but there is a limit of how many of those characters are needed.
The SW one... eh. Reivers, that SW guy and even the not-a-dreadnought, I simply don't care. Utility value seems really low.

Voss wrote:

JWBS wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It sounds like it is an upgrade sprue strictly for them, which is what pisses me off.

Raven Guard have their First Company regularly utilizing Phobos armor and we didn't get a special unit.
Shrike has a dedicated bodyguard unit called Shrike's Wing...no unit.

Space Wolves come out and get a special unit? Ridiculous.

Ones a real snowflake chapter getting a new book, and the other is... in the list of first founding chapters.
No surprises here.

The only surprise is that someone might not understand this, or maybe just pretend not to.

I'm very happy we're getting Combat Patrol boxes. The Start Collecting boxes are absolutely my favourite products from GW, I've bought so many for various armies that I didn't previously collect, the only downside for me was the limited scope of the current SC boxes. I really hope these new Combat Patrol boxes offer comparable value, if so I can see myself buying a half dozen or more of these.

I do like boxes in general (especially for getting characters at reasonable prices).... but I can't see getting multiples of these.
The DW one looks like it might be great for getting an apothecary, an LT, and some core primaris units, but there is a limit of how many of those characters are needed.
The SW one... eh. Reivers, that SW guy and even the not-a-dreadnought, I simply don't care. Utility value seems really low.

Yeah I don't think I'll buy either of these, but looking ahead, I'd love it if we get a GSC patrol to go with my GSC SC, an AdMech Patrol to go with my AM SC, etc etc.

Voss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It sounds like it is an upgrade sprue strictly for them, which is what pisses me off.

Raven Guard have their First Company regularly utilizing Phobos armor and we didn't get a special unit.
Shrike has a dedicated bodyguard unit called Shrike's Wing...no unit.

Space Wolves come out and get a special unit? Ridiculous.

Ones a real snowflake chapter getting a new book, and the other is... in the list of first founding chapters.
No surprises here.

Both are Founding Legions.
One's known for their usage of stealth and ambush tactics and fields multiple Companies at a time in Phobos gear...and the other is Space Wolves.

The only real surprise here is that we're pretending it makes perfect sense. First we got the Raven Guard's new Chapter Master with no bodyguard unit unlike that second place chump Marneus Calgar and now Space Wolves just get a new Primaris unit thrown at them, rocking Phobos gear to match up with Ragnar in Phobos. Coolcoolcool.

 GaroRobe wrote:

Voss wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
So, what are we thinking the price of Outriders will be?

My gut is saying 55USD, given the price of the destroyers and every other release.
But I'm hoping it'll be like $35.

Almost certainly whatever the Skorpekhs are, so $55. ie, go buy whichever starter box instead.

If only those starter prices were like their Dark Imperium equivalents. I think the "cheapest" box with outsiders is $100.

Probably $55 for 3 models, or $99 for those 3 models, plus all the rest of it (another 24 models). I can't get around 3 models at $17 each, or 27 models at <$4 each, almost all of which are useful.
Even the SM commander should be an easy conversion to 'gravis captain with heavy rifle' when that multibox comes out. If you want one of those, that model will be ~$35ish alone.

Theory: GW is moving from Start Collecting boxes to Combat Patrols because Start Collecting boxes have actually really nice discounts sometimes and Combat Patrols will be barely discounted.

 Kanluwen wrote:

One's known for their usage of stealth and ambush tactics and fields multiple Companies at a time in Phobos gear...and the other is Space Wolves.

The only real surprise here is that we're pretending it makes perfect sense. First we got the Raven Guard's new Chapter Master with no bodyguard unit unlike that second place chump Marneus Calgar and now Space Wolves just get a new Primaris unit thrown at them, rocking Phobos gear to match up with Ragnar in Phobos. Coolcoolcool.

It does make perfect sense. One is a chapter that GW has made tons of money on for ~30 years, the other is an also-ran that happens to exist. This isn't a background argument- that isn't even relevant. This is how GW sells models.
The fact that you're pretending that the chapter master of the posterboy chapter for 20+ years is a 'second place chump' makes it difficult to take any argument you make seriously. (and I say that as someone with no use for special characters)

It may not be 'fair,' but its perfectly in line with GW's approach to selling models.

 GaroRobe wrote:


Honestly, they should have made a new upgrade sprue, strictly for the Hounds of Morkai. Wolf skull helmets would have been popular as hell. And it could be a good call back to the Horus Heresy unit, the Deathsworn.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

One's known for their usage of stealth and ambush tactics and fields multiple Companies at a time in Phobos gear...and the other is Space Wolves.

Not like Space Wolves Scouts exists, the one company that uses ambush and stealth to stay hidden for years on a planet if needed until the Wolves strikes

with all Scouts now being the same, it makes more than perfect sense for Wolves to get the Elite Flair Ambush Primaris Scouts back

everything else would have been dump

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Theory: GW is moving from Start Collecting boxes to Combat Patrols because Start Collecting boxes have actually really nice discounts sometimes and Combat Patrols will be barely discounted.

Quite possible. I have a hard time believing the SC boxes have been anything other than wildly successful but I still wouldn't put it past them. They don't mention any discount in this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63K46bOGYp0&ab_channel=Warhammer , which is something you'd think they might do, but to be fair I went and checked a random current SC box (Craftworld) on the GW site and they don't seem to mention a discount in the description. It does say "Great value", but that could be seen as general marketing speak and it's nothing as explicit as "The stuff in this box is more expensive if you buy it all separately".

I see Reivers were such a massive success that we are now getting variant versions taking up shelf space!

Combat Patrol just sounds like a sneaky way to raise prices on Start Collecting again.

Voss wrote:

It does make perfect sense. One is a chapter that GW has made tons of money on for ~30 years, the other is an also-ran that happens to exist. This isn't a background argument- that isn't even relevant. This is how GW sells models.

It's 100% relevant. Shrike could have just been dropped entirely and nobody would have been the wiser, thanks to the previous Chapter Master being offed in the most patently idiotic manner imaginable.

But no. They upped him to Chapter Master status(which, BTW, makes him and Calgar the only two Primaris Chapter Masters currently available) but gave him zero bodyguard units unlike the stupid Ultrascrubs who they saw fit to give the dumb Honor Guard crap.

And now, Sphess Wolves get a fricking Phobos unit to accompany some character equivalent to a fricking Captain!

So no. It makes zero sense.

Raven Guard, as per usual, get screwed.

The fact that you're pretending that the chapter master of the posterboy chapter for 20+ years is a 'second place chump' makes it difficult to take any argument you make seriously. (and I say that as someone with no use for special characters)

Calgar is a second-place chump now. Guilliman's back. Calgar's just there still. Dude coulda died on the Primarisifying table and nobody would likely have batted an eyelash.

It may not be 'fair,' but its perfectly in line with GW's approach to selling models.

Fun fact: With Raven Guard not actually having a dedicated book, you can't actually make definitive statements like you have been. Not if you conveniently forget about garbage like the people who played 'counts as' CSM/Black Templar/whatever Sphess Wolves in previous editions.

My take on the new Wolves unit is that they've had to hastily shonk something together to go with the new book - but didn't have much production space to actually make a completely new unit. Or perhaps they thought the existing special Wolves units were enough, given they now have access to the rest of the (massive) Marine Codex as well as their pre-existing variants.
It could also be a replacement for previously-special Wolf Scouts. It's probably also a way to offload some of those Reiver kits that perhaps haven't been selling as well as hoped.

In any case - it strikes me as an "easy fix" for a Chapter that already has enough. I don't think Raven Guard players would be satisfied by being treated with a quick-fix approach, but I understand the annoyance as that's what they've already had, to date.

Literally all we got for Raven Guard was a beaky helmet(one) on the RG sprue and a Stalker Bolt Rifle...hooray?

Meanwhile, others got special CC weapons and the like. We didn't even get frigging lightning claws added.

And hell:
The frigging Eliminator rifle? It's the Shrike pattern Bolt Sniper Rifle. We couldn't even get that for a Captain or Lieutenant option!

 kodos wrote:

Not like Space Wolves Scouts exists, the one company that uses ambush and stealth to stay hidden for years on a planet if needed until the Wolves strikes

I highly suggest you look into how Shrike became a Captain to begin with, if this is your metric.

with all Scouts now being the same, it makes more than perfect sense for Wolves to get the Elite Flair Ambush Primaris Scouts back

everything else would have been dump

The point. You've missed it.

Removed - Rule #1 please

 Kanluwen wrote:

Voss wrote:

It does make perfect sense. One is a chapter that GW has made tons of money on for ~30 years, the other is an also-ran that happens to exist. This isn't a background argument- that isn't even relevant. This is how GW sells models.

It's 100% relevant. Shrike could have just been dropped entirely and nobody would have been the wiser, thanks to the previous Chapter Master being offed in the most patently idiotic manner imaginable.

But no. They upped him to Chapter Master status(which, BTW, makes him and Calgar the only two Primaris Chapter Masters currently available) but gave him zero bodyguard units unlike the stupid Ultrascrubs who they saw fit to give the dumb Honor Guard crap.

And now, Sphess Wolves get a fricking Phobos unit to accompany some character equivalent to a fricking Captain!

JC. So do you want Shrike to have a bodyguard or not? Kind of hard to tell from this mad screed. The next logical question would be do you want total homogenization across all chapters, or just in this fringe case of dumb crap, but I don't even wanna go there tbh.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Voss wrote:

It does make perfect sense. One is a chapter that GW has made tons of money on for ~30 years, the other is an also-ran that happens to exist. This isn't a background argument- that isn't even relevant. This is how GW sells models.

It's 100% relevant. Shrike could have just been dropped entirely and nobody would have been the wiser, thanks to the previous Chapter Master being offed in the most patently idiotic manner imaginable.

But no. They upped him to Chapter Master status(which, BTW, makes him and Calgar the only two Primaris Chapter Masters currently available) but gave him zero bodyguard units unlike the stupid Ultrascrubs who they saw fit to give the dumb Honor Guard crap.

And now, Sphess Wolves get a fricking Phobos unit to accompany some character equivalent to a fricking Captain!

So no. It makes zero sense.

It makes perfect sense. There was never any chance that Raven Guard would be getting a unique unit, they would only ever go down that road if they were doing a unique unit for every first founding loyalist chapter which while possible in the future i still think would be very unlikely.

Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Ultramarines are the big 4 Chapters and will always get the overwhelming attention and support that the Space Marine line receives with Black Templars being the next in line for attention.

As others have pointed out this can be seen as a Primaris replacement for the Space Wolves specialist Wolf Scouts.

And that 'frickin' Captain is Ragnar Blackmane, basically the 'Main Character' of the Space Wolves and has been since 2nd edition before Logan Grimnar even had a model.

Imperial Armour Index preorder on Friday! We no longer need to listen to complaints of “where is my index anymore”.

Coming soon to Dakka Dakka: They nerfed my Forge World unit in the new Imperial Armour Index complaints.

There was as much of a chance for Raven Guard to get a unique unit as there was for Ultramarines to get the only Honor Guard unit for a Chapter Master.

And no, it can't be seen "as a Primaris replacement for the Space Wolves specialist Wolf Scouts". Anyone who actually knows about the Wolf Scouts would understand why that statement falls flat on its face before ever stating it.

And that 'frickin' Captain is Ragnar Blackmane, basically the 'Main Character' of the Space Wolves and has been since 2nd edition before Logan Grimnar even had a model.

Only by virtue of having outdated fiction still lingering around. This is like saying that Gaunt is 'the main character' of the Imperial Guard.

Maybe this will be the one time Reivers don't blow ass. I would love for retroactive includes of unique Primaris units for each other Chapter though. That seems like something they could stick in a White Dwarf.

 Kanluwen wrote:
There was as much of a chance for Raven Guard to get a unique unit as there was for Ultramarines to get the only Honor Guard unit for a Chapter Master.

And no, it can't be seen "as a Primaris replacement for the Space Wolves specialist Wolf Scouts". Anyone who actually knows about the Wolf Scouts would understand why that statement falls flat on its face before ever stating it.

And that 'frickin' Captain is Ragnar Blackmane, basically the 'Main Character' of the Space Wolves and has been since 2nd edition before Logan Grimnar even had a model.

Only by virtue of having outdated fiction still lingering around. This is like saying that Gaunt is 'the main character' of the Imperial Guard.

Ultramarines have a precedent for getting Honor Guard, thay have had models for this in the past, they had a FAR greater chance of getting unique units than Raven Guard.

I've been collecting Space Wolves for about 20 years but feel free to enlighten me as im obviously missing something when it comes to Wolf Scouts.

Ragnar has always been the most important Character the Space Wolves have. He is their Dante/Calgar/Azrael, perhaps not in terms of rank but he is in terms of importance to the lore. He has also been a focal point of more recent background material and another novel that was released in December 2016.

Gaunt is a poor comparison, where are his models and rules? Ragnar is more akin to Dante/Calgar/Azrael and likely has more written about him than those 3 combined.

The DW Aggressors look like they're probably ETB.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The point. You've missed it.

No I got it, you problem is that there is no new Raven Guard Supplement and you are pissed that the new Space Wolves Supplement get those toys which should be coming first in a Raven Guard Supplement and that SW get unique stuff but don't deserve it because those are RG exclusives

So I just tell you, wait for your new Supplement or a new Space Marines Codex, whatever comes first
don't see a big problem here, just accept that your Chapter has to wait, while all others get the stuff that you want

you can always play a different faction if GW does not make the one you play the way you like it (or play a different game instead)