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Ancible wrote:
The DW Rules preview has been posted

the ability to switch up doctrines is pretty big news IMHO.

BrianDavion wrote:

Ancible wrote:
The DW Rules preview has been posted

the ability to switch up doctrines is pretty big news IMHO.

Agreed, but everything else seems to be anti-Xenos centric, which is what many DW players complain about. Hopefully they have some other strategems etc. that will be good against non-Xenos factions.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ancible wrote:
The DW Rules preview has been posted

the ability to switch up doctrines is pretty big news IMHO.

Agreed, but everything else seems to be anti-Xenos centric, which is what many DW players complain about. Hopefully they have some other strategems etc. that will be good against non-Xenos factions.

Isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch to be anti-Xenos???

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ancible wrote:
The DW Rules preview has been posted

the ability to switch up doctrines is pretty big news IMHO.

Agreed, but everything else seems to be anti-Xenos centric, which is what many DW players complain about. Hopefully they have some other strategems etc. that will be good against non-Xenos factions.

well they do get access to all the core SM strats. my guess is they'll get a handfull of generic strats and a strat that can be used agaisnt each xenos race to address what is perceived as that races "thing" (apparently -1 to hits is seen as an eldar thing.. if thats the case hopefully GW'll give their core troops some basic ways to increase their penalties to hit in their codex)

More anti-Xenos rules for Space Marines is just what the game needs! Bravo GW, you nailed that one.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch to be anti-Xenos???

It becomes a problem when opposing armies are more likely to be non-Xenos, and all those fancy special rules dont actually do anything.

Mr Morden wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ancible wrote:
The DW Rules preview has been posted

the ability to switch up doctrines is pretty big news IMHO.

Agreed, but everything else seems to be anti-Xenos centric, which is what many DW players complain about. Hopefully they have some other strategems etc. that will be good against non-Xenos factions.

Isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch to be anti-Xenos???

Yes, but not having much to deal with other factions is a common complaint from DW players. I can see how that would be frustrating.

BrianDavion wrote:well they do get access to all the core SM strats. my guess is they'll get a handfull of generic strats and a strat that can be used agaisnt each xenos race to address what is perceived as that races "thing" (apparently -1 to hits is seen as an eldar thing.. if thats the case hopefully GW'll give their core troops some basic ways to increase their penalties to hit in their codex)

That's a good point, and might fix the problem, but DW players will have to decide on that.

What I find interesting is that the anti- Eldar strategem specifically calls out penalties to hit as well as "BS modifiers". Could that be how gw is going to get around the cap of -1 for minuses to hit? Give Eldar abilities that change their opponents units BS?

yukishiro1 wrote:
More anti-Xenos rules for Space Marines is just what the game needs! Bravo GW, you nailed that one.

I mean, I wouldn't call it "More" as those are both modified (weakened) versions of stratagems that deathwatch already had.

the anti-eldar one used to be "shoot at an eldar unit that moved near you out of phase" and the anti-necron one was "pick one unit that you attacked to not get to make a RP roll"




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ancible wrote:
The DW Rules preview has been posted

the ability to switch up doctrines is pretty big news IMHO.

Agreed, but everything else seems to be anti-Xenos centric, which is what many DW players complain about. Hopefully they have some other strategems etc. that will be good against non-Xenos factions.

Isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch to be anti-Xenos???

Yes, but to use another example, an ability like this:

-This unit Re-rolls wound rolls against DAEMON units

Is much worse to add to the game than this:

-When enemy units take invulnerable saves against this unit's attacks, successful save rolls must be re-rolled

^the former rule is useless against 95% of the armies in the game, so most likely it'lll be super OP against the one army it works against. The latter rule provides you with organic strength against Daemons, who all have invulnerable saves.

Stuff that does things like:

-Ignore to-hit modifiers
-kills light infantry
-counters fast-moving or deep striking enemy units

etc

these are good ways to make Deathwatch particularly good against xenos without just giving them "reroll to hit vs xenos" on some dumb thing.

There was not mentioned a thing about special issue ammunition, which is what i've been waiting for (storm bolter mostly)

I hope stormbolters don't get SIA, they just shouldn't.
I'm also surprised that people are shocked that DW got better at killing Xenos....really?
They don't look OP which will keep the meta chasers away (hopefully), and still look interesting to run as a mono dex. Im sure there will still be a few nuggets inside the supplement.

 bullyboy wrote:

I'm also surprised that people are shocked that DW got better at killing Xenos....really?

I didn't see shock, but I did see salt, and frankly, The salt over Hounds of Morkai is all the proof we need that some people WANT to be salty about Space Marines and will take ANY excuse they can get.

BrianDavion wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

I'm also surprised that people are shocked that DW got better at killing Xenos....really?

I didn't see shock, but I did see salt, and frankly, The salt over Hounds of Morkai is all the proof we need that some people WANT to be salty about Space Marines and will take ANY excuse they can get.

I'll not derail too much but there's a handful of fairly legitimate reasons to be salty about the hounds.

Lazy kit - combat squad with a few heads
Not really needed - SW didn't really have a niche or weakness covered by them
Treads on the identity of other factions - psyker hunters in the wolves but not other armies who exist to hunt the impure/psykers/daemons
Unusual application - they're a unit that might smoke a random hq once in a while then proceed to be expensive reivers without their rules

It was just an odd move by GW that seemed a little out of touch with what people expected/wanted.

The deathwatch stuff seems fine, I think special issue ammo may end up a series of strats as a gut feeling.

And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

the_scotsman wrote:


^the former rule is useless against 95% of the armies in the game, so most likely it'lll be super OP against the one army it works against. The latter rule provides you with organic strength against Daemons, who all have invulnerable saves.
.

It is super op only if gw writers are idiots. Which albeit could be case. Nothing requires stratagem to be op here. You are paying nothing for stratagem you don't use. Necrons don't get worse if they face faction they can't use all stratagems either. They are free toolboxes you use　if you need. If not you are no worse than if you didn't have that stratagem.

Another thing if you　have special rule on unit. That　runs into worthless/too good issue

Edit: The anti psyker reavers being excelent example.

The new Phobos Killteam implies that Deathwatch can get more than three Eliminators in a squad. We can't have that here! There's only THREE in a box!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The new Phobos Killteam implies that Deathwatch can get more than three Eliminators in a squad. We can't have that here! There's only THREE in a box!

Unless things drastically change for the Codex the primary draw of Kill Teams is to circumvent model or FoC restrictions. You can put up to five Eliminators or Eradicators into a single troops slot for instance.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The new Phobos Killteam implies that Deathwatch can get more than three Eliminators in a squad. We can't have that here! There's only THREE in a box!

Same can be said for Outriders in Fortis Kill Teams.

I honestly hope death watch is a fun an intreasting supplement and isn't just used by TFGs to get around FOC restrictions

BrianDavion wrote:
I honestly hope death watch is a fun an intreasting supplement and isn't just used by TFGs to get around FOC restrictions

Yes because FOUR Eliminators in a squad would be SUPER DUPER BROKEN

People is allready discussing about spamming <infantry> keyword outriders with obsect after Combat Squating them to separate them from intercessors so... doubt it.

Deathwatch has always done that, just now with access to primaris units, so I don’t really see how that’s much different?

 Leth wrote:
Deathwatch has always done that, just now with access to primaris units, so I don’t really see how that’s much different?

The difference is that now SM bikes are actually good

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

 Galas wrote:
People is allready discussing about spamming <infantry> keyword outriders with obsect after Combat Squating them to separate them from intercessors so... doubt it.

What's interesting is that there isn't anything in the article saying such a thing is a definite option - at least, not that I saw. There's a box confirming new units as available, but not necessarily new Kill Team members.

We do have an "unknown" Kill Team at this point, admittedly - possibly a Gravis one, given the introduction of the Spectrus KT for Phobos armour. I also wonder in the Reiver will get pulled from the... Fortis(?) KT (sorry, my book is in another room) so it can sit in the Spectrus one.

Question - is "Xenopurge" the worst name for a psychic discipline to date?

Slayer - It wouldn't surprise me if there is a 3 model cap on the number of Eliminators in a Spectrus KT.

 Galas wrote:
People is allready discussing about spamming <infantry> keyword outriders with obsect after Combat Squating them to separate them from intercessors so... doubt it.

The english never let foreigners play their game An english person is like..."Well it's a bike...so It can not be infantree you wanka."

Why are people honestly expecting a cap? There is zero indication that anything of the like is in the pipes. It would be odd to release the index and then suddenly have additional restrictions on unit composition.

I feel like the people commenting never read the index, it has 4 kill teams in it.

Well considering the rules specifically say that they are infantry I would ask the English what the words in their language actually mean.

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

Wolves are the ones who enforced the Nikea Edict. There's literally two whole novels about it in the Horus Heresy line. They certainly have just as much reason to be anti-psyker as the Sisters of Battle do.

Grey Knights don't have dedicated psychic hunters...but they're based around hunting daemons. Once things reach a point that the Grey Knights are there? It's basically endgame.
Sisters of Battle are the militant arm for Ordo Hereticus--but they aren't dedicated witchhunters. There's definitely an argument to be made that they do have a bit of flavor there, but it seems to be more in the Condemnor Boltgun than anything else.

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

Space Wolves have a pretty big grudge with Magnus and the Thousand Sons...

 Ghaz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And what other factions would those be whose toes the Wolves are treading on?

Assassins have the Culexus, Sisters of Silence are a full faction whose whole schtick is their anti-Psyker stuff, and that's basically all there is aside from Inquisitors from Ordo Hereticus and the Black Templars with their massive hate-boner for Witches...but they have a massive hate-boner for practically anything.

Sisters of battle are the militant arm for the ordo hereticus but don't have any dedicated psychic hunters, nor do grey knights. Two factions based around hunting psykers/mutants. As you say black templars hate psykers more and would be a better target for an anti psyker unit given they can't have their own from a design space perspective.

Even if you disagree, it serves to stand wolves certainly have no more reason for a dedicated psyker shut down unit than any other, which still leaves it somewhat odd.

Space Wolves have a pretty big grudge with Magnus and the Thousand Sons...

And WE/BT have a big grudge against all psykers period. Were are their special units?

You were the kid who demanded birthday presents at someone else’s birthday weren’t you?

Either way don’t they both have stratagems that are better than this? What do hounds of Khorne do?