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Made in us
Pious Palatine




 warmaster21 wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Forgive me, where's the 36" range coming from?


It might be 30, I don't remember exactly but the SoB strat storm of fire adds range to multimelta shots(pretty sure it was 12 but might be 6) as well as +1 damage.

That's ignoring the fact that you can also have them advance and fire without penalty in argent shroud, so 42+d6" threat range.


Granted you are paying 2cp for that +12 range and +1 damage, and its not like your always going to have a 6 miracle dice on hand to guarantee 9 damage at half range


If you have a triumph of saint katherine and litanies, you have a really good shot at 4s and 5s which the triumph can boost.

Also, the triumph+simulacrum imperialis+your once per phase can guarantee 3 dice. It's probably not OP but it's a spicy way to blow up a knight in one shot.


 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think if we're piling on other units/buffs/strats to one side to make a comparison, then we're not really making a comparison.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 01:17:21


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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think if we're piling on other units/buffs/strats to one side to make a comparison, then we're not really making a comparison.



I wasn't comparing them, I was talking about spicy stuff retributors could do. Leave comparisons for the nerds.


 
   
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San Jose, CA

warmaster21 wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Forgive me, where's the 36" range coming from?


It might be 30, I don't remember exactly but the SoB strat storm of fire adds range to multimelta shots(pretty sure it was 12 but might be 6) as well as +1 damage.

That's ignoring the fact that you can also have them advance and fire without penalty in argent shroud, so 42+d6" threat range.


Granted you are paying 2cp for that +12 range and +1 damage, and its not like your always going to have a 6 miracle dice on hand to guarantee 9 damage at half range


but...but...the math says its possible so one has to be better and the other completely useless.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




Racerguy180 wrote:
warmaster21 wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Forgive me, where's the 36" range coming from?


It might be 30, I don't remember exactly but the SoB strat storm of fire adds range to multimelta shots(pretty sure it was 12 but might be 6) as well as +1 damage.

That's ignoring the fact that you can also have them advance and fire without penalty in argent shroud, so 42+d6" threat range.


Granted you are paying 2cp for that +12 range and +1 damage, and its not like your always going to have a 6 miracle dice on hand to guarantee 9 damage at half range


but...but...the math says its possible so one has to be better and the other completely useless.


You're reaching so hard here it's painful to watch. You should have saved that for a more appropriate exchange.


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just to clarify, are we thinking:

1. That new datasheets will have minimal special rules (if any).
2. That these are just the "in box" datasheets to get people started, and that the full rules will still require the Codex.

3. They ordered the dude who did Warcry layout to redesign 40K too and now the rules will be in card packs staying in inventory roughly 12 nanoseconds
   
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San Jose, CA

ERJAK wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
warmaster21 wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Forgive me, where's the 36" range coming from?


It might be 30, I don't remember exactly but the SoB strat storm of fire adds range to multimelta shots(pretty sure it was 12 but might be 6) as well as +1 damage.

That's ignoring the fact that you can also have them advance and fire without penalty in argent shroud, so 42+d6" threat range.


Granted you are paying 2cp for that +12 range and +1 damage, and its not like your always going to have a 6 miracle dice on hand to guarantee 9 damage at half range


but...but...the math says its possible so one has to be better and the other completely useless.


You're reaching so hard here it's painful to watch. You should have saved that for a more appropriate exchange.


It's just lame how binary some people are. it's either the bestest mostest OPest or it's a waste of energy to even consider it. there is soooo much more to the game. It's not reaching...if its true.
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






I still cant believe the scaffolding with a nig gun can move.. granted its 3" but why...

And personally I wouldn't put any weight to any of these data sheets until codexes are released.
If there is anything GW is consistent about is being inconsistent..*

*And ensuring marines get the bestest greatest and most powerful shiny new toys all of the time

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/05 02:56:35


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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


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Ughh those new turrets primaris get...…….

For 36 PL (probably around 720-900pts), they can get 36 lazcannon shots (9 twin laz talons).

Granted they cant move which is pretty bad in 9th edition, but still...……

36 lazcannons for under 1000pts with marine accuracy is insane.

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The Void

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Ughh those new turrets primaris get...…….

For 36 PL (probably around 720-900pts), they can get 36 lazcannon shots (9 twin laz talons).

Granted they cant move which is pretty bad in 9th edition, but still...……

36 lazcannons for under 1000pts with marine accuracy is insane.


Sorry but
They aren't really lascannons as they have 24" range
They can move
They are actually BS 2+, so better than marine accuracy!

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
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Terrifying Doombull




 Argive wrote:
I still cant believe the scaffolding with a gun can move.. granted its 3" but why...

I assumed it was a nod to the original Tarantula. Not the FW version, but the old Rogue Trader version with the cross-pattern feet. It moved on suspensors.
I'm honestly surprised this is so slow. The Tarantula had a Move of 6.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Insectum7 wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:

And they shall know no unfavourable rules changes!
At least in this case the Multimelta was rarely picked as a weapon choice, and is shared by armies other than Space Marines. Like a Demolisher with Multimelta sponsons becomes a total beast at 24" range, and Sisters get a big extra punch for their Retributors. And Land Speeders. When is the last time you saw a Land Speeder? An extra Multimelta shot on a platform that now doesn't have a -1 penalty for moving is sweet.


Aye, I think it might be time to bring my Hellforged Land Raider Achilles out of retirement. 8 STR8, -4AP, d6DMG shots + 2D3 LOS ignoring MW dealing shots wrapped up in a T8, 2+, 4++, 19 wound package sounds pretty good. Not to mention whatever I decide to load into it.....
   
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 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Sorry but
They aren't really lascannons as they have 24" range
They can move
They are actually BS 2+, so better than marine accuracy!


They'd have a hell of a time on mission 23 where no mans land is 28". How would they even deal with obscuring terrain? They'd never be able to move fast enough for it to matter. These are cheap lane covering turrets, but I don't expect they'll change much other than being an easier target than a unit of eradicators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:

And Land Speeders. When is the last time you saw a Land Speeder? An extra Multimelta shot on a platform that now doesn't have a -1 penalty for moving is sweet.


90 points for a speed with a MM and AC (so 5 more). That gives the speeder better shooting than the ATV for 2 less wounds, but 2 to 6" more movement and fly. Seems like a pretty decent set of trade-offs...barring a special rule for ATVs.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/05 03:16:16


 
   
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Obscuring terrain is good for those turrets. Start the turret behind obscuring terrain to defend an area. It can move it's 3" into the terrain and fire freely out of it.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

And Land Speeders. When is the last time you saw a Land Speeder? An extra Multimelta shot on a platform that now doesn't have a -1 penalty for moving is sweet.


90 points for a speed with a MM and AC (so 5 more). That gives the speeder better shooting than the ATV for 2 less wounds, but 2 to 6" more movement and fly. Seems like a pretty decent set of trade-offs...barring a special rule for ATVs.




Do you really think there's a chance it won't get one? How else are they going to sell that godawful thing?
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

And Land Speeders. When is the last time you saw a Land Speeder? An extra Multimelta shot on a platform that now doesn't have a -1 penalty for moving is sweet.


90 points for a speed with a MM and AC (so 5 more). That gives the speeder better shooting than the ATV for 2 less wounds, but 2 to 6" more movement and fly. Seems like a pretty decent set of trade-offs...barring a special rule for ATVs.




Do you really think there's a chance it won't get one? How else are they going to sell that godawful thing?
I think if it didn't have some fancy rule it would be the odd unit out of the Primaris bunch.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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 Insectum7 wrote:
Obscuring terrain is good for those turrets. Start the turret behind obscuring terrain to defend an area. It can move it's 3" into the terrain and fire freely out of it.


Presuming there is no other terrain in its firing path and that it can deploy near such terrain. And regular LOS will still apply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Do you really think there's a chance it won't get one? How else are they going to sell that godawful thing?


Really cool VROOM noises? Scrapjets are 110 and T6 W9 4+ with 2D3 +1 Rokkit shots. The scrapjet scores 1.94 hits and has much better melee where this thing gets 1.33. Seems pretty reasonable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/05 04:28:55


 
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Obscuring terrain is good for those turrets. Start the turret behind obscuring terrain to defend an area. It can move it's 3" into the terrain and fire freely out of it.


Presuming there is no other terrain in its firing path and that it can deploy near such terrain. And regular LOS will still apply.
3" movement is generally enough to clear most LOS issues when pushing through the GW ruins I commonly see. If you're having trouble finding terrain to get it behind I'd say you're probably not playing with enough quality terrain.

For offense, holding a couple in Reserve and "surprising" the opponent with it's 3" move from nowhere onto a flank with four Lascannons into that sector of the table seems totally viable.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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 Insectum7 wrote:
3" movement is generally enough to clear most LOS issues when pushing through the GW ruins I commonly see. If you're having trouble finding terrain to get it behind I'd say you're probably not playing with enough quality terrain.

For offense, holding a couple in Reserve and "surprising" the opponent with it's 3" move from nowhere onto a flank with four Lascannons into that sector of the table seems totally viable.


Well, specifically obscuring. We have tons o' junk on the table. They're still a useful unit. They're just not going to be as flexible as people might think. The AC may see more use, I think with other units picking up the straight AT role.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 05:22:37


 
   
Made in it
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They are cheap firepower, but barring some special rules they come with some significant drawbacks.

Slow.
They cannot hurt anything 27" away.
Fragile. Really fragile for that cost. The TFC gets away with it thanks to range and no LoS shooting, but this thing is too easy to kill.
   
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I wonder if melta guns will move to 24" with 1 shot.
   
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Spoletta wrote:
They are cheap firepower, but barring some special rules they come with some significant drawbacks.

Slow.
They cannot hurt anything 27" away.
Fragile. Really fragile for that cost. The TFC gets away with it thanks to range and no LoS shooting, but this thing is too easy to kill.

Well, you could reframe that another way and call it a pair of Eradicators with a slower move, BS 2+and 1 less wound.

I'm curious to know what the point cost for them is.

Lol you can take em in squads of three, I just noticed that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
I wonder if melta guns will move to 24" with 1 shot.
Then it would be the Eradicator Melta Rifle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 05:59:02


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
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 Insectum7 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I wonder if melta guns will move to 24" with 1 shot.
Then it would be the Eradicator Melta Rifle.


so? explain to me how rifling would double the range of a concentrated microwave beam.

i doubt the meltagun will see a range increase, but my sisters would love it, and hopefully the multi-melta changes gets rolled out to everyone and their xenos equivalents.

"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost" 
   
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 warmaster21 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I wonder if melta guns will move to 24" with 1 shot.
Then it would be the Eradicator Melta Rifle.


so? explain to me how rifling would double the range of a concentrated microwave beam.

i doubt the meltagun will see a range increase, but my sisters would love it, and hopefully the multi-melta changes gets rolled out to everyone and their xenos equivalents.


Hmm, well, he's right. They have a distinction for a reason. Maybe 18" melta guns. That would make them a little more useful, but still avoid creating murder mobs of scions.
   
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 warmaster21 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I wonder if melta guns will move to 24" with 1 shot.
Then it would be the Eradicator Melta Rifle.


so? explain to me how rifling would double the range of a concentrated microwave beam.
It's not about physics, it's about naming the thing something different because it has different in-game stats, same as the 20 different Bolter variations.

I agree it'd be nice if the Meltagun got more range, but I find it very unlikely that they'd make it the same weapon as their new fancy Primaris release with it's own new name.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 catbarf wrote:
Seeing the rules previews so far utterly kills my hope that GW realized there is a rules imbalance and was planning to bring Necrons up to the level of Marines. I can't see RP and dynasty traits elevating the Necron datasheets to what the Marine ones do with doctrines, super-doctrines, and chapter traits.



Just remember. Marines are master faction, rest are npc. Marines are supposed to stomp so timmy-12yo's can be heroes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Soooo....who wants to do retributors vs eradicators with these MM in their hands?


Seeing rets don't have these nor are sure to get them bit pointless. Nor we know price increase were they get them in decade or so with new codex

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/05 06:29:04


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
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tneva82 wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
Seeing the rules previews so far utterly kills my hope that GW realized there is a rules imbalance and was planning to bring Necrons up to the level of Marines. I can't see RP and dynasty traits elevating the Necron datasheets to what the Marine ones do with doctrines, super-doctrines, and chapter traits.

Just remember. Marines are master faction, rest are npc. Marines are supposed to stomp so timmy-12yo's can be heroes.

I shall take joyous refuge by roflstomping lil Timmy's Pwimawis with my filthy xenos and classic marines.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:

90 points for a speed with a MM and AC (so 5 more). That gives the speeder better shooting than the ATV for 2 less wounds, but 2 to 6" more movement and fly. Seems like a pretty decent set of trade-offs...barring a special rule for ATVs.


Just curious Daedalus, where did you find the point-costs for the ATV?

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Biloxi, MS USA

 MinscS2 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:

90 points for a speed with a MM and AC (so 5 more). That gives the speeder better shooting than the ATV for 2 less wounds, but 2 to 6" more movement and fly. Seems like a pretty decent set of trade-offs...barring a special rule for ATVs.


Just curious Daedalus, where did you find the point-costs for the ATV?


IIRC, it's in the Indomitus points section of CA20.

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 Insectum7 wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I wonder if melta guns will move to 24" with 1 shot.
Then it would be the Eradicator Melta Rifle.


so? explain to me how rifling would double the range of a concentrated microwave beam.
It's not about physics, it's about naming the thing something different because it has different in-game stats, same as the 20 different Bolter variations.


yes and no, using a specific name gives the specific meaning to a weapon

if the gun is named Bolt-Carbine but get Sniper rules makes no sense
Same as having a short range Melta-Gun and a long range Melta-Rifle

if the Leman Russ Battle Cannon would be called LR Coil Cannon it would make much more sense (at least with the current model)

Naming is very important and connected to physics, just using a radnom name that sounds cool because you need 20 different ones for the same weapon only kills of immersion and nothing else

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